Allright, after 6 months I'm tempted to take up the pen again.

What an admirable contribution from Stirling.  As always the man who
rightly points out that one rotten apple spoils the whole basket.

You are right in at the least one important respect: too long a
time, in some circles the "manifesto" has been more important than the
substance.  This applies as well to the avant-garde movement as to, e.g,
the Period-instrument movement of the seventies.  And more important:
a "movement" which uses, or should I say is preached using blatant
distortions of the truth is a danger to all that we love in music.

One can well argue that composition or performance practices that are
meaningfull and have substance will prevail somehow, but nonetheless, in
the beginning of these movements, these people felt the need to make a
point as a reaction against certain conditions in musical practice or
composition.

I would like to state that the term "avant-garde supporter" is only
meaningfull for this list in so far as it describes a liking and feeling
attached to a certain point of view of composing/making music.  This point
of view has only to do with a certain organisation of the musical material.
In this way, I declare myself an avant-garde supporter.  I therefore do not
need a "leader".  Thus, I reject that my musical taste be judged by what
some jerk thinks fit to throw into the world in the way of lies.  Even if
it's in the NYT.

>I have been preaching truce, clearly this is stupid of me - the
>avant-garde and its art is based on lies, because it chooses a
>dishonest version of history as the support for its existance.

You've lost me there....  Firstly, preaching truth is not a stupidity, but
a necessity.  However, I would put it a bit more mildly.  Secondly, why
stating that the avant-garde AND its art is based on lies? Would you call
Messiaen's "Modes des valeurs et d'intensitees" a LIE or based on LIES? Or
is this not an art work? Or are you now doing a bit of propaganda yourself?
What dishonest version of history is Messiaen using?

Speaking of Messiaen (my favourite subject), note how he himself was posed
as "the icon" of avant-garde in the 1940's by Boulez and the likes, and
abused shortly afterwards (Turangalila being described as music out of a
brothel).  Be all that as interesting as you like it to be, these abuses to
my hero have never in the slightest way affected my great appreciation for
Pli selon Pli or the splendid recording of Mahler's 7th by the arch-abuser
Boulez.

>Clearly the only hope for art is to erase it down to the bed rock, and
>perhaps, in a century or so, people will rediscover it, this time divorced
>from its propoganda, and treat it as art, rather than as excellent raw
>material for tank treads.

I wholehartedly agree.

Jos