Ohh brother......this never ends.  As I pointed out.......I am not in
the business of insulting any artist.  The works you mention MUST be just
perfect masterpieces.  I never said they weren't.  I also never said that
no 12 tone composition is good or inspired.  I was simply talking about the
idea which brought about the 12 tone system.  As far as your
counterarguments are concerned......

I would like to know just what you know about fugues.  I have been studying
fugues and their hisory for some time now and I would first like to let you
know that there never was an invention of the fugue.  It was something that
started off as just a word and developed into different forms over the
years.  Just gotta read up on that one.

As far as species counterpoint and basic polyphony are concerned.....these
devices were developed to basically make music "sound" better.  4 part
writing rules were designed to ensure the smoothest possible transitions
between chords.  The rules were also developed to ensure that a piece was
truly in as many parts as it claimed.  Writing with parallel fifths/octaves
is considered a no-no because it essentially cancels out the parts.  It
makes a 4 part piece become a 3 part piece or even less if the inviolate
rules are broken to a greater extent.  This is one main reason why people
use these musical devices.  Not to make the music more original or
difficult.  And FYI.......you don't need to answer the subject at a 5th
above or a fifth below or anything really.  This practice has come down
to us after basically centuries of development in what harmonic tones will
most greatly be utilized through a true answer.  There is no such thing as
a correct fugue.  plain and simple.  This is why Bach's fugues differ from
Beethoven's amd from Brahms' and from Handel's and so on.  Noone's in
'more' correct.  Some people mistakenly think so.

Now let me comment on sonata form.  I have already included a posting
abotu the differnce between formal design and tonal system design.  I don't
really want to reiterate all of that here so I will keep it short.  Form is
like a cake pan or a jello mold.  the ingredients are tonal but differnet
forms make differnet cakes.  Hmm....Consider the form like a cake pan and
the ingredients to be the tones.  It doesn't mater much to me what the cake
looks like as long as it tastes/sounds good.  But, if you decided to create
a predetermined system for what ingredients will be added, culminating with
a system that requires totalitarian treatment of the tones, you may well
end up with a nasty piece of cake.  You may, then again, find that the cake
is the best you've ever had.  Whoi knows.....it only really matters to you
and your own opinion.  I hope that analogy wasn't too out of whack.

I'm glad you love the Berg concerto and Wozzeck.  I think I will give
Wozzeck a listen again.  I never said a bad thing about these works.  I may
find a flavor I really like with these works.  But I will NEVER apreciate
the invention of the system.

--Wes