Norman Schwartz wrote:

>Roger Hecht writes:
>
>>I have heard the Vienna Philharmonic in the Musikverein, the Vienna State
>>Opera, Boston's Symphony Hall and New York's Carnegie.  I found them
>>fabulous in all four, particularly the Musikverein and in Boston.  ...
>
>Well, I truly envy your travels and concert going.

My wife is the traveler. I just go along for the flight.

>Whilst a graduate student I had opportunity to hear the CSO in Orchestra
>Hall.  Other than a visit or two to Tanglewood (not a hall anyway) all my
>concert-attendence has been limited to the NYC area.  I do however have 14
>different discs containing Levine interpretations of Mozart Symphonies, all
>recorded in Wien, Musikverein, Grosser Saal.

I think the VPO does record in the Musikverein, particularly when they
record concerts, but I know they made many, if not most, if not all, of
their famous London recordings in the Sofiensaal, which I think is a local
dance hall of all things.  I think I recall reading that London found the
Sofiensaal an easier hall in which to record.  I have no idea if the
Sofiensaal is still around.

>I don't hear any magic in either the hall nor the artists.  I much prefer
>the recorded sound of Levine conducting Mozart with CSO in the Medinah
>Temple, Chicago in the good ole US of A.  Perhaps Paul Goodman's magic
>exceeds that of Herren Paul, Mayer, Scheibe und Garben.

I don't know much about Goodman, but save for a period in the late
fifties or so, DG has not been well thought in terms of sound of by
audiophiles.  London (actually Decca) has.  Most of the great VPO
recordings, particularly the great sounding ones, were made by London, not
DG.  In fact, I can't think of a single great sounding VPO recording on DG:
maybe someone else can, though of course, much of this is subjective.

There are many reasons one can cite for not liking Karajan recordings,
but one of them for me is that he made so many for DG.  Some were okay,
but for the most part, Karajan was not that well served by DG.  (Nor by the
Philharmonie, for that matter.) Ironic (or perhaps not so ironic), since he
had considerable input into the recording process.  Bohm, too, suffered
from this.  The greatest sounding recording Bohm made that I can think of
was the Bruckner Fourth with the VPO on London.  (Yes, I'm speaking about
sound, since that is the subject at hand.  Both conductors recorded some
very good performances for DG.)

Keep in mind, I'm speaking mainly about the LP era. DG has gotten better
and London worse. Such parity, I guess, is what we get from mergers.

>For that matter to my ears the DGG recording team at the Performing Arts
>Center, State University of New York at Purchase do more justice to the
>music and sound (clarity and beauty of tone) in their Mozart (and Haydn)
>than do those at the Musikverein.

When all is said and done, there is no ironclad rule that says the way an
orchestra sounds live in a hall is how it is going to sound on a recording.
One of the greatest recording halls in history was Symphony Hall in Chicago
before the 1963 renovations.  After that, the recorded sound simply wasn't
the same.  At the same time, the live sound before 1963 was not all that
good.  It got better after the renovation, I'm told, but the recorded sound
got worse.  Since then, engineers have gone crazy trying to record the CSO.
Which is why you have recordings made in the Medinah Temple, among other
sites.  When I lived in Chicago up to the late 80s, I think only DG dared
take on the acoustics of Orchestra Hall, and with very little success.  I
don't know what the situation is there now.

Boston's Symphony hall is another paradox.  In my opinion it is one of
the great halls of the world (3rd according to experts I've read).  Yet
it is a very hard hall to record in.  RCA engineers who reveled in the
acoustics of Orchestra Hall in Chicago, had to struggle with Symphony Hall.
One reason was supposed to be the lack of an audience during recording.
Symphony Hall is quite long and the problem was supposed to be one of
controlling the reverberation.  Oddly, the best sounding recordings of
the BSO, for the most part, were those of the Pops (made up mainly of BSO
players minus the principals).  They tore out the front seats of the hall
for the Pops recordings, if memory serves, perhaps shortening the hall.

Another hall that might fit this paradox is the one in Geneva, Switzerland.
There were some very good sounding recordings made there in the Fifties.
But somewhere I read that live, the hall was very dry.  I'd be curious to
know if this is true, if anyone remembers back that far.

In any case, I'm no recording engineer, but as I understand it, these
people look for different things in a recording venue than in one for a
live concert.  Thus some of the greatest sounding Detroit Symphony
recordings by Mercury were made in a high school auditorium.  The worst,
I think, were in their concert hall at the time.  With the London Symphony,
Mercury made some great ones in Watford Town Hall and some pretty good ones
in Wallahs Town Hall.  EMI made some terrific records in recording studios.
Now London is not known for great concert halls, but it's still surprising
to think of some of the places engineers choose to make their recordings.
Remember the example of Vienna and the Sofiensaal.

The point is, halls sound different with an audience and without one.
Also, I suspect, the needs of microphones suspended from the ceiling, etc.,
are different than human ears.

That said, there are halls that sound good live and on records.  Two I've
never been in have been described that way: the halls in St. Louis and
Albany, NY.

In the end, you can't be sure how an orchestra sounds from a recording.
I say this as a true record junkie.  Indeed, one of the fascinations of
being an audiophile is that you have such a large gap between the original
and the copy to overcome.  That's the challenge of the hobby.  The Vienna
Philharmonic is a marvelous and unique sounding orchestra, and I have never
spoken to anyone who has heard them live in their own hall who has not felt
this way.  If DG can't make them sound the way they do live, way, the
problem is partly with DG and partly with the science.  It is definitely
not with the VPO.

Roger Hecht