Mikael Rasmusson wrote:

>>Dear List members, your views on humour in music.....

I consider Haydn, Dittersdorf and Beethoven the more humouristic composers,
although I find humour here and there in many composers.  I'd be glad to
here downunder share a little of my wiews on different jokes in different
musicians:

Chris Bonds responded with some candidates:

>1.  Mozart: A Musical Joke.

Sorry, but I don't think Mozart is actually funny in this.  It is simply
don't witty.  I think Mozart tries to buy us really cheap in this one.
However what I find humourous in Mozart is not really the musical humour,
but the result of his illness:  The "Gilles de la Tourettes Syndrome".
This is a form of tics, but they are for example verbal.  (Psychiatrists on
the list should be able to tell more about teh illness in itself).  Imagine
the szene:  Mozart has completed a grand piece of sacral music (oops I
forgot which KV), and when the piece lies there finished on the papers
Mozart writes f..k, f..k, f..k and several other words in the same
cathegory around the notes.

>2.  Haydn: The "Joke" String Quartet, with its use of rests at the end of
>the finale (I once attended a performance where the violist turned a page
>just before the last two measures.)

In difference to Mozart, Haydn is a great humourist, with unexpected rythms
and modulations and keyshifts to unexpected keys etc.  All know also the
Paukenschlagsinfonie...my favourite remains the opening of the symphony
nr.60.  with the tuning of the violins, and the Slavonic march.  I smiled
when I first heard that Slavonic theme:  it simply doesn't fit there
although it is carefully wowen into the music.

>3.  The false re-entry of the theme by first horn at the recapitulation in
>the first movement of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony.  Is this humor--or
>something else?
>4.  The whole finale of Beethoven's 8th, but especially the intrusive C#s.

Beethoven was a great humourist too!  I think the 5.  "Fate" is a funny
symphony.  I mean hardly a coincidence that it is the fugue in the *5th*
that doesn't keep going as it should.  Life give us problems that is what
Beethoven want to say.  Also in the 5th:  In bar 666 the trombones play
"The devils note".  The "pastoral" is fun too.  I never thought of the
"Eroica" as humouristic, but the 8.  certainly is!  The 4 th movement of
the 9.  too.  Imagine we hear first what Susan McClary called "a
nonb-orgasmic rape" and then comes the lofty "ode to joy" and what is next?
- Yes, the Turkish marsch!!  HA HA!!  I also consider those dissonant late
string quartetts I don't understand as humouristic, but I don't know if
others agree with me here.  A very comic little piece by Beethoven is "Die
Wut ueber den verlohrenden Groschen" ("The rage over the lost penny").
where a funny, teasing melody is set to an aggressive accord.  I certainly
enjoy that piece more than 10 film with Rowan Atkinson as Mister Bean!!

5.  Rossini.  Try "Il Viaggio di Reims"!  "Il Barbviere di Sevilla" of
course is fun too.

6.  Dittersdorf.  Everything he wrote.  (And his name is fun too!)

7.  Wagner.  Yes, Wagner!  I could almost see Andrew Carlan raise an
eyebrow here, but I mean it.  I posted some time ago a little study on
humour in Wagners music, but I'll be glad to send some examples again, if
somebody missed them:  Meistersinger!!  This is a very humourus opera -
actually I appreciate it more than the italian opera buffa.  My favourite
musical joke is where Beckmesser sings his Buergerlieds for Hans Sachs.
Beckmessers songs are so strictly following the 16 century Buergerlied
that they could be considered parodies.  Hans Sachs, though, beats triples
on the anvil and corrects him with Songs that breaks the limits for the
songstyle, and that do not even rhyme, ansd Beckmesser accepts...e
ecquivalente!  This also points out Wagners genious as very great expert of
this historical liedstyle.  But would Wagner be a humouristic composer if
his jokes were to be found only in this opera? No, but there are a lot of
other jokes, for examples in his great opus "Der Ring des Nibelungen":  The
alludings to anti-semitism are humouristic (IMO], like that it was said
that semits have bad ears, and when Wotan makes a rude comment on Alberich
in akt III of "Das Rheingold", Alberich doesn't hear what he says:  "Was
sagt er?".  It was also once upon a time, in the 19th century said that
semits have big feet, and the music set to Alberich he sounds very clumsy
when he moves...etc.  The leitmotifs are humouristic to some extent too.
It is just that some things can be characterized by music, and soem things
can not!  Think of it!  Wagners leitmotifs are derived from those small
childish motifs Haydn used to characterize the serpent and the horse in
"Die Schoepfung" [where they BTW make a very fun impression, although this
was probably not intended].  There is a serpent and a horse in the ring
too, and both are humourous:  When Bruennhilde calls her warhorse Grane,
this causes a triole from the orchestra, which in no way sounds like a
horse, and has a great comic effect.  [though later, when the trioles are
quickly played after each other, it sounds like a running horse].  The
dragon [Riesenwurm] is very funny too!  it is simply to much dragon.  I
smile every time I hear it!  More on Leitmotifs:  Have you noticed what is
happening when somebody dies in the Ring? Yes, the person/creatures
leitmotif is ringing again, but it is destroyed and dissolves.  Listen
after it!  It is one of the theatregenious Wagners great effects!

And of course that Gutman, who appeared in the wake of Wagner is a great
fun! But thats another story...

8.  Sjostakovitj has been doing a lot of fun stuff, but I tend to agree
with the listers who point out that he is mainly ironic, sarcastic - like
in the Wagner quotes in the 15.  symphony.  Imagine a love theme from
tristan coming *before* the faith/death theme....sheesh!

James Zehm, who was amused when writing this
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