Bill Pirkle wrote in response to Walter Meyer:

>walter Meyer quoted a John Hersey's novel *The Wall* ....
>
>>   "said he thought the second movement of Beethoven's
>>   Fourth Piano Concerto was one of the greatest love scenes in music--
>>   with the orchestra masculine, the piano feminine.  Rachel remarked
>>   that her idea of a love scene was not simply a situation where a
>>   woman talks a man to sleep."
>
>I tend to disagree that this movement is about love, though my own
>interpretation may be incorrect as well.  The 1st theme is masculine, to
>be sure and the 2nd feminine.  But if Beethoven meant the 1st theme to be
>a man, rather than power, force, evil, etc, my visualization of that man
>is an ogre, impolite, uncouth and certainly not a gentleman.  He would be
>more apt to rape than to make love. ...  My reading or Beethoven was that
>he was more occupied with the conflict between good and evil than with the
>conflict between man and woman.

This attaching of motives/emotions and even programs to non-program music
is disheartening to see -- especially on what is -- to me -- an erudite,
informed music discussion group.  To me, saying that a particular Beethoven
movement, for example, is meant to express "love" or "hate" or "bravery" or
represents a "love scene" between a man and a woman is sheer poppycock.
It's juvenile, in my opinion.

Beethoven (to stick with him for a moment) certainly wrote program music --
from Fidelio to Wellington's Victory and several degrees in between.  But
his piano concertos, piano sonatas, symphonies, etc.  were certainly not
programmatic and it is silly (in my opinion) to play the game of discerning
what scene or emotion he was trying to express in these compositions.

This is an age-old pastime.  And it's not even interesting.  Music does
not have to "mean" anything.  It's somewhat childish and certainly "wrong"
to try to place a picture or scene with non-program music.

I had a roommate in college who insisted on doing this.  Every piece of
serious (i.e.  classical) music that I'd play for him HAD to have some
program in his mind -- a mountain stream, a sunrise, a battle, love, hate.
He even put programs to Bach's organ preludes, fantasias and fugues!!  He,
in my experience since, is not alone in this desire or "need" to ascribe
something to music other than the notes.

The middle movement of Beethoven's 4th concerto is a dialogue all right.
But it is not representative of the struggle between a man and a woman or
even mankind and womankind.  It can even be called a "struggle" but it's a
struggle between solo and tutti.  Tutti comes on strong but is gradually
overcome by solo in a beautiful MUSICAL interplay.

Music does not have to "mean" anything!!!

Dave Pitzer