Peter you totally miss the points I have made!
bob

> We are talking big bucks. If beeks were not seeing results do you really
> think they would be spending the money?
PLB
Why would beeks spend money on pollen supplements if they don't work?

I will explain only one more time!
Pollen sub works!
Does not cause crashes!
You need three brood cycles to get bees to winter in a cold Missouri winter.
In my rock quarry holding yard there are way too many hives for the pollen
supply. no pollen coming in.
As I said earlier I have created a flow with light syrup and feeding pollen
to produce winter bees
I personal will NOT spend money on feed which is not needed and as I said I
will move bees to fall sources to keep from feeding but this year my big
truck needs a motor (which I picked up yesterday but not yet installed).


> Lots of reasons. One, given to me by my mentor, who has run thousands of
> hives since the 1960s: it's insurance. Like insurance, you may never need
> it, but you are afraid not to buy it -- just in case you're wrong.

The above is almost laughable!  Commercial beeks feed pollen sub to create
brood.

> Except, if Mattila & Otis are right, this may be short term boost but
> cause then to crash later. Ever heard of bees tanking after they get to
> the almonds? I sure have.

To take a page from Peters book:.

*Are you saying CCD is caused by feeding pollen substitute?*

>Americans spend billions of dollars on things that are useless. The fact
>that people buy stuff is hardly proof it works. If a beekeeper feeds all
>his hives, there's nothing to compare it with.

You crack me up Peter. Plenty of beekeepers do not feed syrup & patties.
Their hives are easy to spot! Commercial beekeeping is all about getting the
bees to do things at a time the bees would not normally do things. You are
*in my opinion* out of touch with the way commercial beekeepers work their
bees across the U.S..*today*

We are constantly brooding up bees for pollination, honey crop  or splitting
. Pollen patties are on many times with no crash. (personal experience).

I will say it takes bee knowledge to change the way the bees are programmed
to work.

To some a bee hive is like a bird house in the back yard. To successful
commercial beekeepers bee hives are a tool to and end. Pollinating the
crops, producing surplus honey and producing bees to keep the hobby
beekeepers hives going!

Our living comes from pollination (large populations hives), production of 
honey
(large populations hives) and selling nuc & package bees (large populations 
of
bees).

bees will NOT RAISE brood without pollen or pollen sub being feed. The main
purpose of pollen is to feed brood. bee bread!

> These people are not dumbkins working in some backwater.

Your words not mine!

> Farrar practically wrote the book on honey bee wintering. Of course, a lot
> of beekeepers don't try to winter their bees any more, preferring to haul
> them down to pesticide heaven (Florida) or stick them in holding yards and
> shove protein patties at them.

Florida is wonderful in the winter Peter. I go down every winter with the
birds, snow birds  and the bees! Bees fly everyday instead of only hoping to
survive till another spring in New York & Canada.

 How was your winter in New York? Lots of snow to shovel I heard! Watch your
heart when clearing snow as many old people die in the north clearing snow.

In the future its possible commercial beekeepers will be very rare and you
can get ALL your fruits & produce from out of country from countries which
use pesticides banned in the U.S.


Commercial beekeeping in the U.S. would have been a fourth the size it is
today if not for California almonds. Saved an industry!

China and other countries are planting almond trees and in time will drive
almond prices low.My fellow beeks in Texas are taking a hard hit from the
drought and some say its time to get out.

Every year the number of commercial beekeepers drops. Two hard years in a
row is usually enough to put many out of the bee business.

Many of us old timers used to care if commercial beekeeping survives but not
so much now.

commercial beekeeping:

"The Red Haired step child of  U.S. Agriculture" Dave Hackenburg quote

bob

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