At 04:19 PM 10/20/2006, you wrote:
>Bill you mentioned organic apples and spraying, excpept in drier
>climates like Washington, organic apples give about a 35% pack out
>rate compared to 80% or higher in conventional apple growing.
>
>As much as some "granolas" would like to claim and think otherwise
>organic apple growing is hardly economically feasible in most of the
>USA.

Well, here in Hendersonville, NC, commercial organic apple production 
is alive and well. http://www.agr.state.nc.us/NCproducts/ShowSite.asp?ID=2471

I took a class with the owner of this farm at the Organic Grower's 
School, an annual event held here in Western NC. He said it is 
certainly possible to get a good crop using organic methods, but it 
is slightly more expensive, due to the cost of the sprays and other, 
somewhat labor intensive control methods used. However, his apples 
are gorgeous, and he said the price he gets for for them more than 
makes up for it.

I can buy lovely, large unblemished organic apples in not only Coops 
and Whole Foods type supermarkets, but in just about any supermarket 
in this area, including the "gourmet" supermarkets. It can be done, 
and is being done. It will become cheaper to do this as economics of 
scale kick in.

I've been saying this for over 30 years, since I was in graduate 
school in Agronomy -- the wholesale destruction of soil and other 
life caused by the use of broad spectrum pesticides, the use of 
petroleum-dependent fertilizers and the poor management of organic 
matter and soil health that are trademarks of conventional 
agriculture is simply not a sustainable way of feeding the world long 
term. And please do not reply that we feed so many more people with 
so much less land today. I am talking about sustainable, and long 
term. I won't even get into the nutritional value or flavor of what is grown.

I will, for those of you who are interested, suggest this book: 
http://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Year-Lie-Medicine-Destroying-Health/dp/0525949518/sr=8-1/qid=1161438309/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9734107-1428806?ie=UTF8&s=books 
as a good first look at why I feel so strongly about this. It focuses 
more on medicine than agriculture, but does go into the chemicals 
that we cannot avoid that are now in our food, air and water due to 
modern agricultural practices.

I am a new beekeeper -- got two packages in 2004, split them in 2005 
and so now have 4. I have never used chemicals in them, though I have 
been feeding in Spring. (I may not do this next year, though.) While 
I've pretty much ignored my hives this year (my Dad died in June and 
it's just been one of those summers) they seem to be thriving.

I have found much of interest on this list, and on Dee's Organic 
Beekeeping list. I will probably go back to lurking now (though I am 
sure there will be some thunderous disagreements with what I have 
written), but since I am writing, I want to thank those of you who 
are so quick and willing to share your knowledge. Beekeeping is quite 
an art, and it has been very helpful to me to be able to read these 
discussions.

Regards,
Diotima (Card carrying granola and tree-hugging dirt-worshipper)




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