Hello All,
Like I said in my previous post I have got two trained professionals to do
the actual teaching on the microscopes for my area.

I personally would like one of the newer  5 KV  Transmission electron
microscopes ( TEM) for my
personal lab but for now the compound & dissecting I use will have to do. I
would not throw rocks at any of the other three types SEM, REM  or STEM.
but harder to find used. For those not familiar the TEM is the original
electron patent design. Like the old first university computers the first
electron microscopes were HUGE!

 Using the word electron microscope did get attention but would not fall
into the $1500-2000 package pricing. Duh!

With the proposed bill of Hastings for
75 million then even funding a few electron microscopes might be possible.

All that is needed by beekeepers now is a basic package to test for the
things already found in hives. The scope Jerry B. suggested might be enough
with a few other items.

1) Please tell us where you currently get media appropriate for
   culturing foulbrood.  If you make it, list your ingredients
   and recipe.

 Actually I would put the AFB & EFB Diagnostic kits in each beekeeper
package. Both cost around $22 from page 48 of the Dadant catalog but the ad
says *call for pricing* for over 50. I wonder the cost for 500?

Culture is not necessary and is time consuming. I can walk buy a hive with
AFB and make a diagnosis which is SELDOM wrong!
The smell of AFB is unusual.

2) Please tell us what your favorite stain is for highlighting
   nosema spores on slides when looking at midgut contents.

I personally have never used a stain. Many amateurs do I have been told. In
fact an electron microscope is not
needed. A compound scope with 400 power does a good job. I suppose a stain
might help some see better.

 Using an electron for a simple diagnosis of nosema seems a bit overkill. In
fact I have never heard of one used but surely could be.
I have seen nosema
pictures in books with a light red stain but not sure what they used as I am
a beekeeper and not a lab person.


I have never made a field diagnosis of nosema and not had my hypothesis not
confirmed with the microscope.

3) Lastly, please explain to us in brief how you prepare a sample
   for an electron microscope.

Many ways involving many procedures. As in all microscope diagnosis the
slide prep is the important part. The three types of prep I have seen done
concerning bees has been:

(although there are over ten named methods to prepare a specimen for an
electron microscope.)

1.sectioning.
1a. What I have looked at most is bee sections with water in specimen
replaced with a chemical.( like alcohol)

2. staining done (mainly for contrast) using lead, tungsten or uranium.

3. dehydration is easy & common

4.cryofixation which is easy to do in a complete lab environment.

To test for amoeba disease I believe a compound microscope would do but
would like to see amoeba disease under an electron scope.

If the Bob's down and dirty test is not enough:

Infected malpighian tubules are usually swollen and appear shiny ( as
opposed to normal malpighian tubules)

then ( Test I have never done)

The tubules are teased from the digestive tract and a drop of water is
added.
A cover glass is placed over the tubules and pressure is added.

Malpighamoeba mellificae can be decerned using a high dry objective and then
changing to the oil immersion objective for more detail.

My training in the above has been self taught or looking over the shoulder
of a researcher. If members of the list want to add or correct the above
please do as I am here to LEARN.


>The above (except for #3) should be trivial if you are planning
on teaching others how to "diagnose",

Like I said *PRIOR* to reading this post I have arranged for two trained
professionals to do the actual teaching. I think they would do a better job
than myself. One has been teaching college level biology for a couple
decades.


>I'm not certain about "disappearing disease" symptoms prior to the 1960s,
as I can't seem to find clear symptom lists prior to the 1960s. (Anyone with
a clue on this, please e-mail me.)

I could share as "disappearing disease" was the first new disease I heard
about after starting beekeeping. I believe I have read everything Wilson &
Rothenbuler have written on the subject. At the time I never saw a hive
which fit the described symptoms nor ever met a beekeeper which did! I was
involved at the time period with an 8000 hive migratory operation running
bees in Florida and Fireweed locations in Minnesota. Excellent bees!


1) You proposed tooling up with tools that may not be
   appropriate, as no one knows what tools are required
   at this point.

The above is almost  to dumb for me to answer!

Everything we learned about the problems found in CCD hives *so far* can be
tested for but some tests the average beekeeper needs equipment and training
to do.

On the lighter side:

What if the answer you seek never comes "grasshopper"? What will you do
while waiting and watching your hives die? Search for the missing bees and
send to Jerry B. is always and option. Bees being taken up by aliens has not
yet been suggested. Possibly the aliens will use an anal probe and release
the bees back into our apiaries.
Do not give up hope that the missing bees will not return!

2) You proposed educating and equipping beekeepers when a
   better investment would be to fund a ramp-up of capacity
   and throughput at existing labs, where "quality control"
   can be more than an empty phrase.

The turn around time on simple problems is simply too long. Beekeepers need
to be able to diagnosis a problem fast so a treatment can be decided on.

Many believe that if they five labs looking so far have not found the
smoking gun then?????

I am lucky I can dial a member of each bee lab from a cell phone in the
field but most beekeepers have not got those kinds of contacts.

3) What we clearly don't need is yet another layer of
   bureaucracy to hold its hand out for the few dollars
   that will be allocated to "CCD",

My point exactly. Send the money needed for testing equipment and training
directly to the people needing the help. Instead of building a new 20
million dollar CCD facility ( proposed in Hastings bill) let the researchers
rent a building! Maybe a building which used to house a MOM & POP business
before Wal-Mart put em out of business!How long do researchers plan to look
for the CCD solution. Lets not  make the researchers so comfortable they
forget the mission!

Beekeepers waiting for CCD answers!

Also. How much money will be left after the bill pays for a million package
bees a few times? Once a payoff for CCD deadouts is announced I expect a
million more hives than in the U.S. will be claimed loss to CCD.

The amount asked for CCD IS 75 million dollars ( not that we will get a
single penny).

If the *groups* ( EAS, Has or Was) you speak of are willing to take their
show on the road and
provide FREE training to beekeepers then perhaps they might fit into the
plan! Attending EAS is not cheap for beekeepers to attend and is only once a
year!

Also without providing the free equipment needed and charging not many will
attend. You need to dangle a carrot in front beekeepers to get many to
arrange time to attend.

The bulk of commercial beekeepers are busy when EAS and the other two meet.

Reason I have turned down all offers to speak at those. Business first! Rob
Mountain asked about the Midwest and Adrian asked about the West last year.
Unlike many I really have got too busy a lifestyle for speaking. I do
however speak for FREE at the clubs I belong to and often.

4) We may need
   every single dollar for the "R&D".

This depends on what your position is. Researchers want ALL the money. The
largest commercial beepers want all the money but a token amount to research
( as most really believe CCD is a witch hunt)

>But other than the above, we are in perfect agreement. :)

On the above as usual I hope we can agree to disagree.

Are you ready to help Virginia beekeepers become better beekeepers Jim?
Beekeeping needs you!

Bob




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