Hello All,
The biggest problem I see with internet discussion lists is general statements made about commercial
beekeeping made by hobby and arm chair beekeepers.

Another list started a commercial list but before long those on the 
outside looking in were giving opinions based meeting hall talk or experience
working for a commercial beekeeper box mover decades ago.

The term "winter loss" really has little meaning today in commercial migratory 
beekeeping. 

To be fair the year could be divided into losses at different times of the year 
Like:
After almonds
dinks at splitting
after honey pulled
dinks after a pollination
late fall

Few professional beekeepers these days  try to turn around a "dink" like hobby beekeepers 
do. 

I would guess most commercial beekeepers would be shocked
today if a record was kept of every production colony removed ina 12 
month period now.

Replacing "dinks" is what I am talking about.
What good is a colony which does not provide
a return on investment.

As Randy says beekeepers &researchers can not  place the problem 
on a single cause but for some to keep saying the problem
is not real is beyond me.

Dave Mendes says he is running 20,000 hives and replaces 50 %
yearly.(vanishing of the bees documentary)

I use my calculator constantly and see those numbers 
as serious. Sure high pollination fees and bulk honey 
prices are helping but in Daves own words those loss numbers are 
not sustainable if prices drop.

Imported honey or imported hives (NAFTA) could lower prices
in the U.S..

To the average hobby or internet armchair beekeeper the problem
makes for discussion but for those with a horse in the race 
A solution to annual loss through deadouts and "dinks" needs
figured out.

Dave Mendes has said todays commercial beekeepers are doing a juggling
act.

10-15% losses is the place to be. 

I can remember a time when you worked to keep hive numbers down.
Price wars over hive and brood sales.

I bought many hives for what the used equipment was worth.
The bees simply came with the equipment.

Filling hives with bees was easy .

bob

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