> >Thus, they fit, IMO, into the definition you presented for "Master
> Beekeeper", namely they put bread on their tables by beekeeping.... Am I
> wrong?


Yes.  And will you please go back and read my original post, so that you
can cease misquoting me?

Many who were very good beekeepers prior to varroa and *Nosema ceranae, *would
no longer qualify as being very good beekeepers today, by the same economic
criterion.  And realize that any large-scale beekeeping operation is only
as good as its lowest-paid employee.

Christina, the "facts" of this matter can be divided into two groups--those
that you hear from some of those beekeepers, and then the truth.  The truth
tends to be well known in the commercial industry, and we know when someone
is exhibiting a bit of mendacity, such as when they file for ELAP payments,
and beg an apiary inspector to say that their losses were due to CCD, when
they obviously  were due to something else.  I've spoken to inspectors and
extension agents who regularly signed off on CCD certification when they
knew full well that it wasn't CCD (or pesticides) that was the cause.

Re ELAP payments for CCD, such payments specifically exclude losses due to
pesticides.  So those that collect such taxpayer money, while at the same
time publicly blaming their losses on pesticides are playing a dangerous
game.  The Feds could take them to court for fraudulently making claims.

And some of the huge losses that you cite are in private, readily admitted
to be due to screwing up on varroa management.

I don't want to name names.  But, for example,  at one commercial beekeeper
meeting in which I was in attendance,  one large operator described how he
screwed up on varroa that summer and lost a large proportion of his
colonies.  The next week he was featured in the state's ag newspaper,
telling how hard he had just been hit by CCD.

One of the operators that you cite lied to my face when I asked him what he
had done differently when he didn't experience losses one year (after
several years of consistent losses to CCD).  He said that he had made
absolutely no changes in his management, and that it was purely due to
fewer neonics being applied that year (no supporting evidence).  The next
week when I asked his lead man, the lead man told me that they had in fact
done better since they had doubled their feeding of syrup and pollen sub,
and increased mite treatments from once a season to four times.

And the largest individual loss to CCD was clearly due to failure at varroa
management.

>Even people like Randy Oliver are dependent on outside income (giving
presentations, writing articles, getting online donations) to supplement
their beekeeping endeavors.

Christina, you must be confusing the neurology speaking circuit with the
beekeeping community (and again I'd appreciate it if you stopped dropping
my name when you know nothing about me).  The beekeeping community is
notoriously cheap in what they are willing to pay for information.  I make
far less than wages for every article I write, nothing for the time I spend
on Bee-L, nothing on the research that I do (I do use donations to pay my
sons wages for the hours that they put into each trial), and charge less
than wages for the 10-15 days that I spend on the road most months in
speaking engagements and attending meetings and conferences so that I can
report on them.  And of course there is no salary or retirement to back me
up.  The point is that I'd be making a lot more money at beekeeping if I
gave up that "outside income."

Let me be the first to admit that I do not consider myself to be an
exemplary beekeeper--especially since I spend too much time on the road at
others' request.  Charlie's seen my place, and can attest to the fact that
it is anything but a model beekeeping operation.  But I've never asked for
taxpayer money, and am now in the process of handing a hard-earned
debt-free successful operation over to my sons.  It took me 35 years to
slowly build up my operation, reinvesting each season's earnings, and
pinching every penny.  I used to fret about $10 items, and now drop $10,000
in feed without even blinking.  I'm far from wealthy, but love the
beekeeping lifestyle and live well within my means.

Re losses, I suffered through horrendous losses when tracheal mite first
invaded, again with the invasion of varroa, again when fluvalinate failed,
and again during the CCD epidemic (Hackenberg was hardly the first to
experience it, and told me that he first saw it in 2003-2004--the same time
that it first hit California).  All beekeepers experience occasional
losses.  Those that suffer large losses year after year, might consider
actually changing something in their management, rather than just keep
complaining.

I struggle to learn how to evolve and adapt in beekeeping, as do other
successful beekeepers.  We talk and learn from each other.  Christina, for
every one of the beekeepers who you cite who continue to blame all their
problems on CCD or pesticides, I can name you successful beekeepers who run
their operations next door, and don't experience those problems (planting
dust kills aside).  Clearly, pesticides are an issue around agricultural
crops, but the vast majority of commercial beekeepers to whom I speak are
more concerned about varroa and nutrition.

-- 
Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
www.ScientificBeekeeping.com

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