This post was submitted TWICE earlier, but somehow the LISTSERV ate it, it seems, so I'm posting from BEE-L.org

I see that this interface allows posting in either plain text or HTML, FWIW.

We'll see if it shows up as a duplicate later.

BTW, Let's watch the subject lines, folks!  This one contained junk and it seems no one noticed.
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> What would you suggest as valid strong support for the role of pesticides 
> in colony collapse?

As the subject suggests, there are TWO issues being discussed here and 
responses often fail to recognise which one is being addressed in the 
previous message.

When questions are asked about the effect of pesticides on bee health, the 
responses often address collapse and ignore the burden that pesticides of 
all sorts place on colony fitness.

Collapse is the extreme case, but there are valid questions about the effect 
of pesticides generally in reducing colony fitness and in killing or 
weakening individuals in the field or hive without bringing on immediate 
collapse.

I recall sitting on the beach watching seagulls out beyond the break.  I 
could see dogfish in the breaking waves as they stood up, and from time to 
time a seagull would disappear from the flock, eaten from below by the 
dogfish.  The bird simply vanished with no noise or fuss and the other birds 
sat there, apparently oblivious to the fact that their neighbours were being 
eaten.  It seems an apt analogy to me.  If a bee disappears in the fields 
and nobody is there to see, does it not still fail to come home?

(If a man says something in the forest and his wife is not there to hear, is 
he still wrong?).

In my experience as a beekeeper, I have seen evidence that current colony 
condition is always the result of the many little details of hive history. 
Many small influences, positive and negative add up to bring a colony to its 
present state.

Of course there are major influences and events which can override all the 
positive history in the world.  A bear attack or a pesticide event can kill 
or weaken a colony in an instant, but otherwise, the colony condition is an 
integral of experience over time.

Collapse can come about as a result of a confluence of adverse factors or as 
a result of a single event.

On  the other hand, gradual decline or constantly being in an uneconomic 
state can be the result of many factors taxing the colony, but sufficiently 
subtly and lightly as not to be easily diagnosed. 

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