>This means they don't need to account for the synergistic effects
resulting from their compound formulations, as Marianne Frazier has pointed
out.  In order to decipher that, university labs (like hers) have to hire
chemists in order to figure out what the "proprietary ingredients" in
pesticide formulations are, then test them in conjunction with disclosed
"active ingredients" to get at the reality

All that they'd need to do is to test the proprietary formulation, as
Canada and some other countries do.  I feel strongly that the U.S. should
follow that example.

>Maybe neonics all by themselves don't do much to bees.

At a high enough dose, they can do plenty of damage alone!

>But when we add everything else the bees are exposed to, simultaneously,
into the mix?  That is what matters.

And that is exactly why I most value on-the-ground reports from beekeepers
living in areas of widespread neonic use!  The reports that I hear from
beekeepers around seed-treated corn, soy, and canola are that colonies do
fine, other than the planting dust issue with corn seeding.

On the other hand, foliar applications of imidacloprid to young citrus
trees in Florida (where I am now) will likely result in bee-toxic nectar.

Christina, with any pesticide, it's mostly about exposure and dosage.  Of
course, many other factors such as nutrition, parasites, and interactions
with other chemicals, both natural and synthetic cn tip the balance.  If
you follow my current series of articles in ABJ you will see that not only
am I fully aware of the points that you raise, but I am bringing up a
number of additional factors that you have not yet mentioned.

Clearly, you have made your mind up on some issues.  Once someone's made
their mind up, that then results in argument and debate rather than
discussion.  I'm not interested in debate so much as I'm interested in
discussion of scientific findings and on-the-ground experience of
beekeepers.  I hold no position on the neonics or any other pesticide, and
must admit that I feel awkward in trying to politely discuss these issues
with you.

-- 
Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
www.ScientificBeekeeping.com

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