Pete,  I am very disappointed you posted this....  but here goes.

a friend writes

>>>this whole Bee-L discussion on Carnie, Italian, or mixed is making me crazy. I don’t understand where people think these pure lines are coming from. People talk >>>about Carnies and Italians as if they were a real thing, but out in the field, anyone can see that people are selling bees based on color alone. Anyone who >>>thinks these bees are different is living with his head in the sand.

No one,  not one single person mentione "pure" lines.  In fact it was conceded several times that the lines have been muted and crossed.....  Selling based on color alone??  Head in sand??  Really?  Another expert with 3 hives????




>>>They keep talking about the “big breeders” but only a small percentage of colonies come from those sources,

Not even close to true.  These "big breeders"  are responsible for several million queens a year,  98% of all packages come from these guys,  and so does the breeding stock.  The big breeders account quite quickly for 2 million queens a season  you would have to be way behind to not see that is a huge influence in most areas.
 




>>>And whatever happened to “informed discussion?” People are writing all this nonsense with nothing to back them up. 

Nothing to back them up?  Your "friend"  is not well read at all.   Try every bee book published for the last century outlining the differences in traits.  To think that citing some obscure paper written by a grad student or researcher with tried bees for a paper they wanted to write is foolish at best.  We have thousands of people in the industry right now who are informed and belive and see the differences in stocks.




More importantly,  I am disappointed in the fact this was even posted.   Obviously this person lacks the skills to follow the discussion,  read the basic books,  or the ability to participate in a discussion.
There are many conversations we debate,  and I have 1000% respect for them,  even in conversations we disagree,  like this one.   I completely respect the skills and knowledge and willingness to engage  by all those here.   I would take the words of a poster here over much of the research papers out there.  Take this topic,  combined the people involved have literally delt with 1000's of hives and a whole lot of queens  you can NOT get more informed than that. PERIOD.



In short,  Pete, I am disappointed you would share something from someone not willing to participate,  send  them back to BS......  


Charles

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html