[log in to unmask] writes:

>It is not extra-musical matters!  It's a musical quote.  Extra-musical
>matters are beyond the music.  This is purely about music.  I like this
>finale but if Beethoven's 9th never would have been written, I would have
>enjoyed it more....

You missed my point.....What he's saying is.....don't get your mind focused
on the fact that you're hearing similar material.....just listen to the
music you are hearing and don't think about that musical quote the entire
time you could be thinking about Brahms Finale.  Of course it is purely
about music but it is also about originality and creativity and influence.
Man..Brahms also stole from Beethoven because he wrote a symphony in c
minor.  That is awful.  And to think....Brahms could never have thought up
that melody without Beethoven.......what a jerk Brahms was.  It doesn't
bother me in the least.  I guess we're just 2 different people and that's
ok!

--Wes