In a message dated 7/3/99 10:31:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:

Jim Bach makes has some valid observations, which I'll leave alone. I'd want
to add some comment on some points and I vigorously disagree with a couple
things he said:

>  4.    Remember mosquitoes are a public health concern and are considered so
>  by community leaders.  As such their control may take precedence over bee
>  protection if the public health hazard is deemed to exceed the value of the
>  bees (and perhaps other insects and pollinators) in the affected area.

   Unless there is a declaration of emergency, the public officials involved
are bound to obey the law, regardless. The label is the law, and I am
continuously amazed at how much these officials try to wiggle out.
Incidently the mosquito control people have been lobbying the EPA to try to
exempt themselves from the bee label directions, which is a back-door way of
admitting that they are not obeying them.

>  5.    Mosquito control district persons may have varying levels of
knowledge
>  about the proper control methods and timing of applications.

   You got that right!  Some wouldn't know a honeybee from a yellow jacket.

>  6.    It is incumbent on the applicator to read, understand, and follow all
>  label directions when spraying mosquitoes.

    Absolutely!  And that means some basic knowledge of the bees and the
flowers that they forage upon. I have pushed and pushed for better education
and monitoring, but it's definitely an uphill fight. Many do not want to know.

>  7.    Seeing a spray rig doesn't mean that an application was being made at
>  the time, though the sight of one raises one's apprehensions.

    True, and applications of larvicides are not hazardous to bees. But an
observant beekeeper should be able to learn the difference, at least with
ground rigs.  Adulticides are fogged, larvicides are sprayed into standing
water (ditches, etc.)

>  12.    Turning off the spray rig in the vicinity of the hives may or may
not
>  protect the bees depending on wind and air movement.  If the hives are in
an
>  area of low risk from mosquitoes, turning off the rig can be a good
>  bargaining point with the applicator.

   Turning off the rig in the vicinity of the hives has little to do with
label directions (which refer to *foraging* bees). If the bees are at home,
damage will be limited to perhaps a few guard bees that pick up a droplet
(unless the rig actually blows the fog into the hives).  If the applicator
can establish, prior to application, that bees are not out foraging in the
application area, I can live with whatever slight damage will occur to the
hives.  I have a few hives right in my own neighborhood (one right at my back
step), which is regularly sprayed at night. I have never seen any significant
damage from this.  I don't want mosquitoes biting me at our outdoor cookout,
either, if I can ever find time to have one....

>  14.    Beekeepers do not have an inherent, or a legal "right" to place bee
>  hives where they want to and then expect others to protect them from
>  hazards.

   Wrong!   In the context of pesticide use/misuse, this is pure baloney!  If
my beekeeping were restricted to areas that are free of risk from pesticides,
only about 10 - 15% of South Carolina would be available for beekeeping
(western states might have a bigger percentage). These would be pine forests
where bees would starve.  And, even there, there could be one of these
occasional outbreaks of pine borers, and here we go!

   If I moved my bees, or ran to "protect" them, every time they would be at
risk from pesticides, I'd have to charge $150 or more per hive for
pollination, to make it a viable business. Many pesticide applications are
made in compliance with label directions, probably as many accidently as
intentional. It's those that are not made according to label directions that
cause the losses.  Those that tell me to move bees have not offered to pay my
expenses, so that they could apply in violation of the labels!

>  15.    Beekeepers should make themselves aware of hazards to bees in their
>  local area before they move their bees to a location.

   An acquaintance of mine was warned of a massive aerial application for
mosquitoes to be done in his area. He moved two tractor trailer loads of bees
at enormous expense, and loss of the honey crop that was already underway
(ever try to un-super hives while a honeyflow is on?). He moved to another
area he thought was safe. There he was badly hit by applications of Penncap M
on blooming alfalfa (a violation of the label).  There are some sprays that
are done on a fairly regular basis. But there are often ones that come up
suddenly as well. You cannot always know what is happening to your bees 100
miles away, and you usually can't drop everything and run at a moment's
notice.

>  16.    They should find out where mosquito spraying is done and determine
>  the normal spray period i.e., months of the year, time of day, number of
>  times the area is sprayed, how much area is sprayed, likely wind direction
>  and speed, air movement at application time, application method (ground or
>  air), etc.

    This is true. And they should know the normal materials, have copies of
the label directions to know the law, and make sure applicators know they
know the law. Otherwise the applicators will try to do an "end run" around
the label directions, by notification schemes.
>
>  Here in Washington, beekeepers and the Department of Agriculture have
worked
>  closely with Mosquito Control Districts to minimize hazards to bees.
>  larvicides  are used regularly and sprays only when population levels reach
>  a high level.  Districts usually communicate with local residents via the
>  newspaper, radio
>  and TV to inform them of the application area, date and timing.  The
>  applications that I am aware of were made in the late evening to dusk
>  because of mosquito and air movement behavior.

    I have no problem with late evening and night adulticide applications. As
far as I can see, they comply with the label. My problem is daytime
applications, done with no monitoring to see what hours bees forage in the
application area.
>
>  I think it is incumbent on beekeepers to work closely with departments of
>  agriculture and other industry groups on bee hazard issues.  It must be
done
>  in a congenial manner to be effective, and one must take the time to do
>  one's homework on the issues.

    I always start out with a congenial attitude, though I am not going to be
steamrolled. I cannot be as congenial with lawbreakers, or public officials
who refuse to do their enforcement job. I am well aware that I am a mouse
among elephants, and the only thing I have on my side is the law. So I am
going to insist on implementation and enforcement of the law.

Sometimes it seems like the effort is long
>  and grueling especially when there is so much bee work to do.  Regulators
>  are people too and they have to work within the system they find themselves
>  in, which sometimes is difficult, and not always as efficient as they would
>  like.  It is difficult to walk in another's shoes, if not impossible, but
>  try it sometime.  I think you'll have an appreciation for what they
>  accomplish and come away with another point of view.

    Well spoken, Jim, as someone who has a salary, a pension, and many perks.
When will we be permitted to get on board?

    The reverse is also true. When you are struggling to keep your head above
water, it's hard to be "nice" to someone who pulls you down, or even those
who could help but just look away.  Just when the bees are in real nice
shape, and it looks like a season when you will actually prosper a bit,
another round of violations leaves the bees looking sickly and unproductive,
and you are into a salvage mode, trying to feed them enough to enable them to
replace lost foragers to get them in shape for the next pollination.  At a
time when the bees should be producing, they are consuming, in a desperate
effort to replace their lost sisters. The violators get away with it most of
the time, and even when caught, wind up getting scolded or have their pinkies
slapped, because the regulators are bought and paid for by the industry they
supposedly regulate.

     I lived at the poverty level for several years after the mosquito
spraying following Hurricane Hugo, which was mostly done in violation (as
they were after Hurricanes Fran and Andrew).  I have barely been able to get
above the poverty level today. We dream of owning our own place, but own no
real estate, drive old trucks, and have no pension fund. Health insurance
takes every nickel we can scrape.

   I am confident that I could make a good living, if it weren't for pesitide
damage from label violations. I am continuously amazed at the productivity of
these little creatures, and I take their husbandry very seriously. I am proud
of what I do, as one of the most productive groups in America.  This has kept
me going, at times when I have been tempted to quit. I may yet be forced to
quit, but I will not do it willingly.

    Right now, South Carolina is big on gambling. It really galls me, that I
could get rid of my bees and equipment, turn my honey house into a video
poker emporium, and live high off the hog.  I wish that as much attention
would be paid to the producers, as to the parasites.  America has too few
producers and too many parasites.  Sooner or later, probably sooner, our
bubble is going to burst.

[log in to unmask]     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
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