I feel that you may have badly misinterpreted the research.


I dont think I misread at all.  I think the problem is that research is a point of data,  nothing more.  Whats missing is how to apply it,  which is what I am trying to evaluate. its conclusions are not completely relevant to our needs. 
Part of my point of writing it,  it to simple organize my thoughts. There are many more questions than answers at this point.   Those dead bees,  are they summer bees that lived longer than needed from dry sub fed?  are they winter bees who died from bad feed?  Do i need winter bees if we are only cold for a couple of weeks?  how important are winter bees to a hive thats feed continually and keeps brooding?  Does keeping brood really slow down a spring pop,  or does it depend on the age of the queen?





That was not my interpretation of the research at all!
That was my take away from your work with pollen subs which showed they all dropped to a certain point, regaurdless of sub fed.  The take away from that is that a ton of sub in the fall its not as much help as it seems to be, and may be money wasted.



> > We are as a group the only AG group I am aware of who's yields are
> dropping,  and success has not improved dramatically over the last decades.


I also find this to be a point of concern.  I'm pushing our research
funding organizations to support more practical research on hive management.
I know you are,  and appreciate it!
In pondering it in depth, I see the problem,  just not how to fix it yet.  You have made inroads,  but a long ways to go. Juanse post on Sunday was a perfect example.  (great post still reading )  But it show the problem.  A ton of Science.  But real data in there was pretty much crap.  Now before you blaze away,  ponder my point.  All that research to show pesticides are bad or good.  All for the most part complete crap.  (yes we do need the LD values)   BUT thats garbage science.  And that work posted shows it clearly.  Dozens of data points on both sides the main issues.  Garbage for the most part,  which is why we need politicians to interpret.Where is the papers that show exposure?  those are what matter,  thats the real world data to make decisions on,  the exposure to pesticide A  vs pesticide B  and what our are choices?  Unfortunately it seems Science only wants to observe a set data point. IMO what we need a bit more of is Engineering,  (in no way saying that science is bad)  But we need "how do we get there from here?" how do we make it better.  These are the questions to head forward.  All the research in the world on the "dance " is great.   kinda cool,  but tells us nothing to move the industry forward.  What we need is data on best honey plants for bees,  what hybrids (soybeans come to mind) are worthwhile,  how do we make better queens?  how do we fairly evaluate queens?  The list goes on.   My point being such as the discussion on wax contaminates,  is not that we know 1000ppm is bad for a queen,  but what levels in wax are really a problem?  I do understand we had to start there,  but it seems in science we stand around and applaud the finding,  but go no further.
I will take Amy's work last year as an example.  some research showed that  syn. pyrethroids may actually be attractive to bees,  and neonics a slight repellent( some of which is mentioned in the link Juanse sent)  But now,  interestingly enough  that research stopped.  This is part of the problem. 
I realize from talking to a lot of beekeepers,  inquiring minds are very rare.  most have their "system" and it works,  so how and why doesn't matter.  If dad say keep the hive tool in the left pocket to be successful, by gosh it will work for me too.   I want to change that.
We as a group need to pose what are the real questions to move the industry forward.
My questions on this feed issue are still new and raw,  just stepped into the mess a bit this fall.  still forming a real plan to answer the thoughts,  but at least getting to the point I can ask the right questions I hope.

Charles




   

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