Now maybe we should consider the question of the change in saucer form from
the low bowl shape typical for Chinese porcelain, creamware, and pearlware
to the flatter shape with a well that came in about the middle of the 19th
century. Does the shape change correlate with use change?
Meta Janowitz
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Somerwell <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> As usual there is a wealth of information to be had on HISTARCH
>
> This early 18th century painting is worth a thousand words:
> http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24648/lot/5/?
> category=list&length=10&page=1
>
> Once I get to my office I hope to post a number of 18th references that
> document this practice
>
> Rob Hunter
> Editor, Ceramics in America
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 19, 2018, at 4:25 PM, Lyle Browning <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Of course there’s the famous 3 Stooges short where Curly is admonished
> “Etiquette” for drinking out of the saucer, whereupon he sticks out his two
> little fingers and slurps away.
> >
> > Lyle Browning
> >
> >> On Mar 19, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Bob Skiles <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm guessing another reason (beyond the fact that it ACTUALLY IS an
> efficacious method of cooling steaming-hot coffee for common
> working-men/farmers who could not afford the luxury of the time wasted in
> sitting-around the breakfast-table awaiting the coffee to cool in a polite
> manner) this practice was continued (well beyond the late-19th-century,
> when purveyors-of-etiquette first looked-down-their-long-noses at the
> custom), was precisely because it was frowned-upon by elite society.
> >>
> >> I am thinking of the time a particularly-snobby church-lady was
> visiting, and in some manner (I don't rightly recall if she said anything
> or just indicated disdain with her facial expression) disapproved of my
> father's blowing-and-slurping of coffee from his saucer. I DO, however,
> clearly remember his non-verbal response, seemingly not even taking-notice
> of her disdain/disapproval, but a fleeting, almost imperceptible grin at
> the corner of his lips; an obfuscated grin such as I had only seen on
> occasions when my father's old-time common-sense proved more practical ...
> and safer ... than social convention.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 3/19/2018 12:50 PM, Pentney, Sandra P wrote:
> >>> There is some documentation on this practice on several websites, but
> I cannot find a first-hand reference.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.afternoontoremember.com/learn/etiquette
> >>>
> >>> and here:
> >>> "Pouring one's coffee into the saucer to drink, has not been socially
> acceptable in many other countries, since the early to mid-1800s."
> >>> http://etiquipedia.blogspot.com/search?q=drinking+tea+from+saucer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sandra Pentney MA, RPA
> >>> Environmental Team Lead, Ecosciences
> >>> San Diego
> >>> Engineering, Design & Project Management
> >>>
> >>> Tel: 858-514-1083 Mob: 858-354-7257
> >>> Atkins a member of the SNC-Lavalin Group
> >>> 3570 Carmel Mountain Road, Suite 300 San Diego, CA 92130
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Bob Skiles
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:25 AM
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: Saucer Question
> >>>
> >>> As Ed pointed-out, this was a rather common practice in Depression-era
> Texas; I've seen my Daddy drink his coffee in this manner (1950s-1960s,
> though, as I remember, only when the cup-of-coffee was still steaming-hot
> ... when the coffee in the cup had cooled sufficiently, usually after only
> one saucer-full, then he continued drinking it conventionally from the cup
> ... so I surmise his behaviour had more to do with efficacious avoidance of
> a burnt mouth, rather than any ideas of social conventions); our family
> were definitely NOT enjoying a "higher status life" [an elite trait as may
> be suggested to some from artistic depictions and etiquette books], but
> 10th-generation poor-farmer Americans [Scot-Irish before 1637, Tennesseean
> hillfolk late-18th-early-19th-c., east-Texas backwoods after 1839].
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Bob Skiles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 3/19/2018 11:39 AM, Keith Doms wrote:
> >>>> I have seen it done in movies from the 20s and 30s.
> >>>>
> >>>> Keith R. Doms
> >>>> Newlin Grist Mill
> >>>> Site Manager
> >>>> 219 S. Cheyney Rd.
> >>>> Glen Mills, PA 19342
> >>>> (610) 459-2359
> >>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Ed [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 12:16 PM
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: Saucer Question
> >>>>
> >>>> I recall people in Texas in the 1930s pouring hot coffee from cup
> into saucer and letting it cool a few minutes before drinking it from the
> saucer. And I recall a radio comedian, probably Bob Burns, saying to
> someone who was complaining that his coffee was too hot, "Here take mine.
> It's already saucered and blowed."
> >>>>
> >>>> ebj
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 3/19/2018 9:49 AM, Cross, Matthew wrote:
> >>>>> HistArchers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for your responses.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It appears the idea of people drinking tea from saucers does have
> some merits. The textural sources speak of it as déclassé behavior in the
> late nineteenth century, including a number of etiquette books and Laura
> Ingalls Wilder writing of her father. Jan Selmer shared a 1914 Markovsky
> painting of a woman drinking (or at minimum, cooling) tea in the saucer.
> Other paintings and old photographs reviewed do not depict such behavior.
> The examples of saucer drinking, however, seem to be in the minority. It
> certainly appears to have been a practice, but possibly more in a faddish
> manner, maybe restricted to the mid-nineteenth century. Though it is also
> possible that the behavior may have been class related, as the artistic
> descriptions and etiquette books depicted a higher status life than the
> average family.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> —Matt Cross
> >>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matthew E. Cross
> >>>>> Archaeological Assistant — Historic Section
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
> >>>>> Prairie Research Institute
> >>>>> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >>>>> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> >>>>> 23 East Stadium Drive
> >>>>> Champaign, IL 61820
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 217.300.3060
> >>>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: "Cross, Matthew" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>> Date: Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:53 AM
> >>>>> To: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>> Subject: Saucer Question
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HistArchers:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have, for years, seen archaeologists and others note that tea was
> drunk out of saucers in the 19th century. Generally, it is something along
> the lines of first the tea was poured into the teacup, then poured from the
> teacup to the saucer to cool the tea, and finally consumed from the saucer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anybody have historical references to such behavior? I have
> only seen modern, anecdotal mentions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> —Matt Cross
> >>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matthew E. Cross
> >>>>> Archaeological Assistant — Historic Section
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
> >>>>> Prairie Research Institute
> >>>>> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >>>>> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> >>>>> 23 East Stadium Drive
> >>>>> Champaign, IL 61820
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 217.300.3060
> >>>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ############################
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> >>>>> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >>>>> or click the following link:
> >>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__
> community.lsoft.c
> >>>>> om_scripts_wa-2DLSOFTDONATIONS.exe-3FSUBED1-
> 3DHISTARCH-26A-3D1&d=DwID
> >>>>> aQ&c=cUkzcZGZt-E3UgRE832-4A&r=RJyxQwXuHLVfIyPifmOaARKhJAgF84
> 5gZeJ1Z-h
> >>>>> 9E6E&m=3WeTHV5bL2R2W4yzVhX4aG3VEIOtORivYH2THQ8rVQE&s=
> q5UOOISFPwPqdFMk
> >>>>> vLJJ20gtUYYnogugd3g2rbkMMdA&e=
> >>>> ############################
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> >>>> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >>>> or click the following link:
> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__
> community.lsoft.co
> >>>> m_scripts_wa-2DLSOFTDONATIONS.exe-3FSUBED1-3DHISTARCH-26A-
> 3D1&d=DwIDaQ
> >>>> &c=cUkzcZGZt-E3UgRE832-4A&r=RJyxQwXuHLVfIyPifmOaARKhJAgF84
> 5gZeJ1Z-h9E6
> >>>> E&m=3WeTHV5bL2R2W4yzVhX4aG3VEIOtORivYH2THQ8rVQE&s=
> q5UOOISFPwPqdFMkvLJJ
> >>>> 20gtUYYnogugd3g2rbkMMdA&e=
> >>>>
> >>>> ############################
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> >>>> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >>>> or click the following link:
> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__
> community.lsoft.co
> >>>> m_scripts_wa-2DLSOFTDONATIONS.exe-3FSUBED1-3DHISTARCH-26A-
> 3D1&d=DwIDaQ
> >>>> &c=cUkzcZGZt-E3UgRE832-4A&r=RJyxQwXuHLVfIyPifmOaARKhJAgF84
> 5gZeJ1Z-h9E6
> >>>> E&m=3WeTHV5bL2R2W4yzVhX4aG3VEIOtORivYH2THQ8rVQE&s=
> q5UOOISFPwPqdFMkvLJJ
> >>>> 20gtUYYnogugd3g2rbkMMdA&e=
> >>> ############################
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> >>> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >>> or click the following link:
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__
> community.lsoft.com_scripts_wa-2DLSOFTDONATIONS.exe-
> 3FSUBED1-3DHISTARCH-26A-3D1&d=DwIDaQ&c=cUkzcZGZt-E3UgRE832-4A&r=
> RJyxQwXuHLVfIyPifmOaARKhJAgF845gZeJ1Z-h9E6E&m=
> 3WeTHV5bL2R2W4yzVhX4aG3VEIOtORivYH2THQ8rVQE&s=
> q5UOOISFPwPqdFMkvLJJ20gtUYYnogugd3g2rbkMMdA&e=
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>>
> >>> This email and any attached files are confidential and copyright
> protected. If you are not the addressee, any dissemination of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Unless otherwise expressly agreed in
> writing, nothing stated in this communication shall be legally binding. The
> ultimate parent company of the Atkins Group is SNC-Lavalin Group Inc.
> Registered in Québec, Canada No. 059041-0. Registered Office 455 boul.
> René-Lévesque Ouest, Montréal, Québec, Canada, H2Z 1Z3. A list of Atkins
> Group companies registered in the United Kingdom and locations around the
> world can be found at http://www.atkinsglobal.com/
> site-services/group-company-registration-details
> >>>
> >>> Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you
> really need to.
> >>>
> >>> ############################
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> >>> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >>> or click the following link:
> >>> http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?
> SUBED1=HISTARCH&A=1
> >>
> >> ############################
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> >> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >> or click the following link:
> >> http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?
> SUBED1=HISTARCH&A=1
> >
> > ############################
> >
> > To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> > write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> > or click the following link:
> > http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?
> SUBED1=HISTARCH&A=1
>
> ############################
>
> To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
> or click the following link:
> http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?
> SUBED1=HISTARCH&A=1
>
############################
To unsubscribe from the HISTARCH list:
write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
or click the following link:
http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?SUBED1=HISTARCH&A=1
|
