LACTNET Archives

Lactation Information and Discussion

LACTNET@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM

Options: Use Forum View

Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
vgthorley <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:19:44 +1000
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (154 lines)
Amberly, I wonder if we are seeing more such cases of intractible nipple 
and/or breast pain, now that mothers are less likely to quit early (which is 
what they did in previous decades). I have had two mothers this year with 
multifactorial intense nipple pain, and no clear answers. I also saw a 
mother a couple of years ago who I now realise was nipple psoriasis as the 
cause of intense nipple pain. (There's not always a clear history for this.) 
These mothers have usually already seen multiple good people - from medical, 
midwifery and lactation consultant professions - who would be able to help 
in normal circumstances.

Think multiple factors, rather than a single cause. Most likely by the time 
the mother has got to you, latch will have been thoroughly investigated and 
is unlikely to be the issue, but it is always wise to check it again and 
offer other positions so that the mother can find what best suits her and 
her baby. Other possibilities I check for are:
- infection (more common than is generally thought);
- nipple vasospasm (Raynaud's-like symptoms with colour changes);
- contact dermatitis (which can take some ingenuity to investigate);
- incompletely treated thrush (espec if a long family history);
- psoriasis of the nipple.

You can add to that list something I identified in a client ssome years ago, 
and have seen in others since - referred pain from the spine, where there 
has been an old spinal injury. Remember where the enervation for the breast 
comes off the spine?  This manifestation of pain seems, in the cases I've 
seen, to be generalised in the breast, not specific to the nipples, and the 
mother reports it is overwhelming.   When I see someone with unexplained 
breast pain, I ask the mother if she has had a spinal injury at some stage 
in the past.  Remember, the mother has been through a pregnancy with her 
spinal posture changing as the baby grew, followed by a labour or surgical 
birth, which are not kind to her vulnerable spine. Oddly enough, sometimes 
the injury is higher than the region where the nerves to the breast come off 
the spine. My next question is:who is/was treating the mother for her spinal 
pain since the injury, and to recommend she go back. This may involve a pain 
specialist, her GP and/or a physiotherapist.  Once the spinal matter is 
being treated, the mother is better able to deal with improving the 
breastfeeding.

A useful reference, and one that can be recommended to other members of the 
health team to read, is a very breastfeeding-friendly paper in a dermatology 
journal, which describes several conditions, some of which are often ignored 
when nipple or breast pain is investigated. Yes, despite the title, multiple 
factors are covered.  See:

- Heller MM et al. Caring for new mothers: diagnosis, management and 
treatment of nipple dermatitis in breastfeeding mothers. International 
journal of dermatology 2012; 51: 1149-1161.

One further factor that exacerbates nipple pain is one that I first 
identified in the mid-1990s and have seen time and again - flinching by the 
mother at the moment of latching, when she sees the baby's open mouth, 
triggering her fear of pain. Flinching raises her baby (mouth and all) and 
lowers her breast. See my two articles in which I have described this, one 
in Breastfeeding Review, the other (a long letter) in the Journal of Human 
Lactation. I'vc explained it, and how to work with the mother who is doing 
it, a lot better in these two articles than I can in a few words here.

- Thorley V. Latch and the fear response:  overcoming an obstacle to 
successful breastfeeding. Breastfeeding Review 2005; 13(1):9-11.
- Thorley V. Mothers’ behavior that undermines breastfeeding latch: the fear 
response (letter) J Hum Lact 2005;21(3):243-244.


To conclude, it may be impossible to find and treat all the factors in 
intractible nipple/breast pain, and my heart goes out to the mothers. If 
some of the factors can be dealt, the mother may welcome any improvement. 
She is also likely to appreciate being listened to and to every effort being 
made to find the underlying factors, even if the situation is unresolved. 
Bear in mind that the same mother may have a similar situation after a 
subsequent birth.

Virginia

Virginia Thorley, OAM, PhD, IBCLC, FILCA
Private Practice Lactation Consultant (original cohort of 1985)
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
email: [log in to unmask]
website: www.virginiathorley.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Amberly Renfroe" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 5:25 AM
Subject: Breast and nipple pain evades 4 medical personnel


With permission from the mother, I am writing in hopes that someone can help 
figure this out.
Please let me know if I am missing any information.  This is my first time. 
I appreciate any advice in terms of etiquette and dyad details.  I am a 
newly accredited LLLL and have recently volunteered to be on a week long 
call list for the Denver Metro area.  One call surprised me because the 
mother has already seen 3 OBGYNs, 1 acupuncturist, 1 midwife, and 1 
lactation consultant, and to no avail. Her mother- in- law suggested calling 
LLL.

First time mother, 7.5 month old baby, mother has had unbearable pain for 
the last 2 months on right side only.  Baby will pop on and off. Right side 
had an inverted nipple. Baby nurses 2xs as long on right (painful) side than 
left. She was using a nipple shield. Since birth, the breastfeeding has 
caused the inverted nipple to no longer be inverted anymore.  It does look 
clamped, blanched, and has a white line on the side after nursing.  When 
squeezing nipple with her fingers, it does NOT change color.  She has felt 
pain in the same spot, on 1/3 of her breast tissue, near where her ribs meet 
her body, at the inner portion of the breast.  It is deep into the tissue, 
but she also said that it changes, which is why it stumped all of the 
medical personnel she sought out.  I thought it was a latch problem, and we 
talked about vasospasm.  She was researching Raynaud’s when someone 
suggested that. She has had mastitis 2xs, complete with fever, so she is 
aware of what that feels like.  I thought perhaps teething.  She did seem to 
think it was timed with teeth coming in. There is a very intense throbbing 
pain, at the nipple at times, too.  Like a twisting burning pain that is 
recurrent on the same side (right side).  I suggested skin to skin 
biological nursing to work on a nice latch, in case it was due to teething. 
I suggested lecithin in case it was a leftover clogged duct.  We talked a 
little bit about Raynaud’s, but not as much as latch since Raynaud’s was 
already suggested previously.  I also suggested laying down to nurse.  She 
is to the point now where it is really affecting her will to breastfeed. 
Because her left side is doing so well, the pain with the right side is 
almost unbearable and is frustrating her and she wants to do everything 
possible to continue nursing, but just cannot nurse through the pain any 
longer.  She is on vacation visiting family and will get back to me this 
week if anything has helped or not helped.  I sent her the kellymom.com link 
on blanching and the llli.org link on vasospasms.  Thoughts? Suggestions?

Many thanks,
Amberly Renfroe
LLL of Vail Valley
[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]

             ***********************************************

Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html
To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]
Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask]
COMMANDS:
1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set 
lactnet nomail
2. To start it again: set lactnet mail
3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet
4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome 

             ***********************************************

Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html
To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]
Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask]
COMMANDS:
1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail
2. To start it again: set lactnet mail
3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet
4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome

ATOM RSS1 RSS2