Cathy,
I only belatedly remembered that I had an intact Hinds Honey and Almond Cream bottle illustrated in a report I authored in 2000. The illustration shows the side and bottom views. The report is: Data Recovery Excavation of LA 66922 at Alamogordo, Otero County, New Mexico. It is Report No. 2000-2 of the New Mexico State Highway and Transportation Department (now DOT) Technical Series. It is fully downloadable from their website http://dot.state.nm.us/main.asp?secid=15134. The illustration is on p. A-170. It came from a probable dugout or root cellar that was later infilled with rubbish. The homestead was on the north side of Alamogordo and was occupied from about 1900-1914.
Hope this helps.
Harding Polk II
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]>
To: HISTARCH <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:00 am
Subject: Re: HINDS bottle
Wow! great stuff here, Bill. I had no idea that the SCA glass could show up
n manufacturing as late as 1933, but it explains my Hinds bottle with the
crew threads. Here I thought I was imagining the slight purple tint.
The Owens mark is an inaccurate description by me. It's actually an Owens
car from the manufacturing technique, not the mark.
I'm ready to go with George Miller's date of post-1928 for my particular
ottle, especially now that you confirm the SCA glass conforms to that date.
Thank you ALL for your input here. The site was found on a ranch near Santa
e that was not developed until the mid-1970's. The feature appears to be a
owboy camp. The owner is delighted to imagine a cowboy shaving and soothing
is chapped hands and face with the honey and almond crème. As the bottle is
ut of context (it was found during a construction project), he is going to
onate it to the the A.S. Friends of Hinds Museum. Apparently they believe
t is the western-most intact example they know of.
THANKS, ALL!
athy
Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
Avenida Vista Grande #145
anta Fe, NM 87508
05-466-1476 home
05-913-1326 cell
"Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing outside the
ire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
----Original Message-----
rom: Lockhart, Bill
ent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:49 PM
o: [log in to unmask]
ubject: Re: HINDS bottle
Sorry for the late hit here, but I am on sabbatical and not in to the
ffice often.
Forget all the outdated sources for purple glass. My article in SHA
ournal discredits the older dating. SCA can be as late as 1933,
lthough a more typical phasing out date is ca. 1920. That 1914 stuff
ame from Grace Kendrick -- in 1964!! We have learned a bit since
hen.
The earliest patent we have found for screw caps on narrow-mouth
ottles is 1925. Although an earlier use is POSSIBLE, it is unlikely.
crew caps (therefore, continuous-thread finishes) generally become more
ommon ca. 1927 or 1928. I suspect that Bill Lindsey has that somewhere
n the Historical Bottle Webpage by now.
Finally, the Owens Bottle Co. trademark document claims the first use
f the Box-O mark as 1919 -- the first year that the firm went by that
ame (it was the Owens Bottle Machine Co. prior to that). In really
igorous searching, the Bottle Research Group has found NO evidence for
he use of the Box-O mark prior to 1919. Toulouse was incorrect.
Owens used small letters in the center of the base to mark SOME of its
ottles prior to 1919 -- probably beginning ca. 1910. For example, F =
airmont, WV plant. These are especially prevalent on catsup and liquid
ood bottles.
Hope this helps some.
Bill
Btw, I toured the Owens-Illinois plant at Crenshaw, PA, this summer. I
iterally watched bottles being made by a machine only 18" from my
yes!! The hot end of the plant was unbelievably hot. Even in the
audi Arabian desert, I have NEVER experienced heat like that!!! The
old end was much nicer -- generally between 90 and 100 degrees.
ill Lockhart
rofessor of Sociology
ew Mexico State University
lamogordo, NM
575) 439-3732
>> Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]> 11/12/2011 10:08 AM >>>
eorge:
Thanks for clarifying. You're a big help.
It is a suction scar, not a manufacturing mark by the Owens company, so
'm
ating the bottle after 1905. Yes, I, too am confused by the threaded
inish, which you post-date to 1920, but the very slight purple color,
hich
pre-date to 1915. That does indeed have me in a quandary. I can't
xplain
t. As you note, the U.S.A date also is later. I am ready to ignore the
slight purple color and go with all later indicators. The coloring is
ERY
light, and may not be solarized at all.
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
Avenida Vista Grande #145
anta Fe, NM 87508
05-466-1476 home
05-913-1326 cell
"Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing outside
he
ire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
----Original Message-----
rom: George Miller
ent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:37 PM
o: [log in to unmask]
ubject: Re: HINDS bottle
Cathy,
I have a question about your “Owens mark on the base.” Are you
efereeing
o a maker’s mark from the Owens Bottle Company, or an Owens suction
car
n the base of the bottle? The Owens box-O mark for the Owens Bottle
ompany, according to Toulouse does not begin until 1911 (pp 393 in
oulouse’s *Bottle Makers and their Marks*). The Owens Bottle Machine
ompany did not begin leasing out their bottle-blowing machine in a big
ay
ntil 1905. Many of the early bottles made on that machine were cork
topped rather than screw threads or continuous thread finishes. Your
ottle also has “MADE IN U.S.A.” that tends to be later. Are you sure
he
lass is solarized?
Peace,
George L. Miller
n Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]>
rote:
> Thanks, George.
The notation "SCA" by archaeologists here in the West means
un-colored
amethyst: it was clarified by manganese. Yes, amateurish, I know, but
t's
short-hand out of the several Western states' historic sites manuals,
'm
afraid. To my reasoning, my particular bottle pre-dates 1915. The
wens
mark on the bottle post-dates it to 1904. I was hoping some
nformation
from the listserve would help me narrow it down.
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
7 Avenida Vista Grande #145
Santa Fe, NM 87508
505-466-1476 home
505-913-1326 cell
"Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing outside
he
fire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
-----Original Message----- From: George Miller
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HINDS bottle
Cathy,
I have a Whitall Tatum Co. drawing of the bottle. The front panel
eads:
HINES / HONEY / AND / ALMOND / CREAM / A.S. HINDS CO. / BLOOMFIELD /
.J.
U.S.A. The base reads A.S.HINDS CO. along with the triangle WT mark.
t
has a continuous thread finish. A note on the drawing reads
Dimensions
show proposed changes - other dimensions same as W.T. dwg. no.
3831-E"
The base of the drawing reads LEHN & FINK, IND, NEW YORK / 4 1/2 OZ.
ANCY
OBLONG/ PROPOSED CHANGES. Date Jan. 23 - 1928. WHITALL TATUM CO. /
MILLVILLE, N.J. DRAWING No. SK. 208
Question, what color are your referring to as "SCA"? Not everyone
ill be
familiar with your coding.
Peace,
George L. Miller
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]>
rote:
Does anyone know anything about a bottle marked:
>
> HINDS
> HONEY
> AND
> ALMOND
> CREAM
> A.S. HINDS CO.
> BLOOMFIELD N.J. U.S.A.
>
>
> It’s an apothecary, with a screw finish, a light SCA glass type, and
>> Owens
> mark on the base. The base repeats the mark:
>
> A. S. HINDS CO.
> 10 V MADE IN U.S.A.
>
> Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
> 7 Avenida Vista Grande #145
> Santa Fe, NM 87508
> 505-466-1476 home
> 505-913-1326 cell
>
> "Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing
utside the
> fire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
>
>
|
