>Not trying to argue, levels this high in October are clearly in the danger
>zone.  I was simply questioning your blanket assertion that soft treatments
>couldn't bring down high mite levels.  I would be very interested to see
>your supportive data.

Thanks.  Impressive.  Seems the weather cooperated, you did things right, 
and all is well.

Again, I never said they "couldn't bring down high mite levels", those are 
your words ascribed to me.  I said "soft treatments are known to have 
problems bringing down high loads".

As for references, I think at scientificbeekeeping.com, a most reputable
web site, there is a discussion regarding the timing window problem and 
climate issues for some of these methods.  I seem to recall there is also 
mention of the collateral damage that these chemicals and methods may 
cause and the potential impact on profitability and/or survival.

We've all seen these things work, but there is an element of luck.  Also,
reportedly, the levels don't seem to stay down the same way as with 
some of the "hard" chemicals.  I don't know why.  Additionally, it is harder
for the average beekeeper to get uniform resuts with fumigation methods, 
which many of these are due to hive configuration and population variance
among other complications.  I'm betting the 4 out of 5 average 
beekeepers cannot/will not get the sane results that Randy Oliver will.

We find some beekeepers can't even use an idiot-proof solution like 
Apivar with consistent efficacy.

Additionally, these "soft" treatments have impacts on bees and brood which
are well documented and not entirely predictable and which may impact
colony survival if used in doses large enought to bring down heavy loads.

As I said, "soft treatments are known to have problems bringing down high 
loads".  If they didn't we would not have sought permission to use Apivar in
Alberta or found such a huge improvement in the outfits which adopted it
and used it in an IPM setting.

It will be interesting to see what the survival will be in the hives 
you treated.  I hope that it will be good, and I hope you ran controls.

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