Jim said:
> Now I've never heard you or your consistently
> anonymous sources say anything bad about Aldicarb,
> but we are all ears.

I have talked  on BEE-L about the BAYER product Temik many many times.(BEE-L
archives use my name and temik in search).

 I point to  the reason the Bayer product temik is *banned* in the U.K. by
saying google Temik/aldicarb  and decide for yourself ( April 2008 ABJ
pg.338).

Temik was from my knowledge one of the first systemic pesticides. The first
manufacturer was union carbide and then BAYER purchased to registration.

While in Florida last January I toured orange growers and asked about the
pest management practices. I was shown bags of temik. I was told that
aldicarb was being found in nectar, pollen, oranges ,orange juice and in
ground water.

The growers said how safe the maker/seller said the product was at the
start. Wrong!

The growers said that they purchased the temik by the truck load ( 50 pound
bags )and sent migrant workers out to toss the temik around the base of
trees. Temik was basically unregulated as for when to use or distance from
ground water wells at first. The water table in Florida is around 14-15 feet
which is the reason for slab houses.

Bee hives started crashing in orange groves treated with temik but did not
stop or limit temik use despite beekeeper complaints.

When contamination started being found in ground water, orange juice and
oranges the use of temik became regulated. 300 feet from a water well and
limited use on orange. The product should have been banned as the U.K. did
in my opinion.

I was also told temik is easily available in Florida even by the truck load
and off label use is done often.

Maryam speaks French but I speak Floridian as I was raised in Florida and
return often. Talking to the orange growers/ Florida beekeepers  trumps most
information.

example of seeing the problem first hand:

When small hive beetle was first found in Deland, Florida in 1998 I arrived
on the scene the same time as the USDA-ARS  and the Florida apiary
inspection service. Other beeks can learn about a problem months later at a
bee meeting or in a bee magazine. I like to see the problem first hand. For
those reading which might have been at the site and did not notice me at the
site back then I remember David Westervelt and others trying a catch a swarm
of bees high in a live Oak tree. Myself and the beek with the SHB
infestation wondered what David W. was trying to do as the SHb was in the
hives not in the trees. Well David was trying to find out if SHB traveled
with bees in swarms.
They do David learned. The trapped swarm had many SHB flying with the bees
to the new location. I left Florida thinking if I ever have a serious bee
problem which I can not figure out David Westervelt might be the person to
call. Since 1998 I have sought his advice on several occasions.


>The good news is that Florida
> tightly monitors the use of Temik, so one could
> at least cross-check beekeeper complaints with
> the list of which orchards use the Aldicarbs at all.

If you believe the above Jim then I have some oceanfront property to sell
you in Missouri. Very little is tightly monitored in Florida including
temik.

In the U.S. our legislators have passed laws to cover about every problem
but are lax in enforcement of most!

If new rules are passed to rein in big ag then lobbyists lobby to reduce the 
number of inspectors or let the industry regulate itself.

bob

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