Bob,
No offense, but I have seen smaller ornamental tiles. But I vote for it to
be something other than what everyone is thinking. It could have been made
to impress the design into something else, like a seal. It also could have
been tossed into the site to mislead the crew. People do that sort of thing
to somehow show the archaeologists to be fallible or to play nasty tricks.
The lack of patina or oxidation suggests it is not old, unless of course
someone cleaned it.
Ron May
Legacy 106, Inc.
In a message dated 6/28/2009 9:16:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ron,
There is no question about it being moulded ... the obverse and sides all
show this, as well. Please note that this item is only slightly larger
than
an inch square ... too small for a tile, and WAY too small for a copper
ingot (ingots this small are called "coins" ... especially when they have
standard symbols and inscriptions on one or more face, and are cast in
sizes/weights convenient for portability and ready use as a medium of
exchange.
I'd bet it's either a coin (possibly from southern India around
200BC-100AD), or a fake intended to emulate a moulded copper coin of that
period/region ;)
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron May" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
African America...
> Bob,
>
> If you look at the small square item presented to us a few days ago, you
> will see the back side has that look of something poured in a mold. I
> actually thought it resembled a tile, so have sent the image off for
> expert
> opinion. Unfortunately, people are away on vacation this time of year
and
> the
> answer will not come for several weeks. It reminded me of an ingot
> molding.
>
> Ron May
> Legacy 106, Inc.
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/27/2009 7:41:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Richard,
>
> There are some similar Indian copper coins (purportedly Mauryan Empire
> punch-mark types ... which would be considerably older, possibly by 5
or
> 6
> centuries, than the molded type Tim shows ... if, in fact, Tim's is
> actually
> a genuine coin) being offered on eBay here:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/India-Bronze-Punchmark-Mauryan-Empire-ancient-coin_W0QQc
>
mdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dSICQ26itsQ3dIQ252BCQ26ituQ3dFICSQ252BUFIQ252BU
>
AQ252BIAQ252BUCIQ26otnQ3d14Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d54QQ_trksidZp3907Q2em263QQcate
> goryZ4737QQitemZ370167825087QQsalenotsupported
>
> The eBay examples also show suspiciously little corrosion ... which
would
> jive if: (1) neither Tim's nor these have ever been buried or handled
too
> much in the past 2,000+ years (highly unlikely) ... or (2) they have
been
> cleaned and polished (possible for the eBay examples, but unlikely for an
> genuine archaeologically recovered specimen) ... OR (3) if they both are
> FAKES !
>
> After looking through about 10,000 images of coins from southern India
> from
> ca. 1500-2,500 years ago, and not finding any examples even remotely
like
> that one Tim has, I'm beginning to think maybe Tim's could possibly be a
> spurious hoax (a plant of recent manufacture). As you point-out, there's
> certainly cause enough (by the fact of the absolute dearth of any
> corrosion,
> alone) to be mighty suspicious ... and even more so, if Tim (or another
> archaeologist) didn't actually recover the item, or witness it being
> recovered. I've had experience with some mighty sneaky
> metal-detectorists,
> before, who enjoyed nothing more than trying to pull the wool over
unwary
> archaeologists' eyes.
>
> ~ Bob Skiles
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Wright" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
> African Americans in Missouri
>
>
>> It looks too suspiciously unoxidized to have ever been in soil. Was it
>> found buried? If so I'd be cautious.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ---------------
>>
>> Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
>> African Americans in Missouri
>> From: Bob Skiles <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:45:55 -0500
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>>Yes, I agree, Michelle, there is a certain "Indus-seal" feel to the
>>>iconography ( see http://www.harappa.com/indus/37.html
>>>
>>>and here: http://www.harappa.com/indus/25.html )
>>>
>>>I don't recognize the script, but it's definitely post Indus/Harrapan.
>>>
>>>This is a cast copper coin; my guess is southern India. Likely a local
>>>minting of a city- or princely-state.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Michelle Touton" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:31 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
>>>African Americans in Missouri
>>>
>>>
>>>> It reminds me of wax seals such as those used by the Indus people
> (e.g.,
>>>> http://www.people.vcu.edu/~djbromle/cartoon04/shobha/Seals_SR2.htm;
> see
>>>> especially the second image), but those are usually carved in the
>>>> negative
>>>> to leave a positive impression and your bronze piece looks like a
>>>> positive
>>>> carving. Perhaps folk art, a talisman, or perhaps even a souvenir
> meant
>>>> to imitate an ancient seal? Have you been able to date the layer
from
>>>> which the object was found?
>>>>
>>>> Michelle
>>>>
>>>> Missouri Archaeology wrote:
>>>>> See link below for images of the small cast bronze object embossed
>>>>> with unique writing or symbols and a quadruped that looks like a
> rhino
>>>>> or
>>>>> elephant.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/39860575@N03/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Missouri Archaeology <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need help identifying a small cast bronze object embossed with
>>>>>> unique
>>>>>> writing or symbols and a quadruped that looks like a rhino or
>>>>>> elephant.
>>>>>> This object was found during a metal detection survey of a site
>>>>>> in Boonville, Missouri, which was occupied almost continuously from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 1820s through the mid-1990s. An original single-pen log cabin is at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> center of the present house (and completely visible on the
> interior).
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> early 20th century rear addition and the original outbuildings
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> survive. Oral information suggests that one of the razed buildings
> was
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> slave quarters and that at least one of the long-time antebellum
>>>>>> occupants
>>>>>> was a slave owner. The piece was found about eight inches below
the
>>>>>> surface
>>>>>> on the rear portion of the lot at the spot where the possible
> quarters
>>>>>> stood. If you are interested or think you can help, then send me
an
>>>>>> email
>>>>>> and I will forward you some images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Timothy E. Baumann, Ph.D. , RPA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curator of Collections
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glenn A. Black Laboratory of Archaeology
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indiana University
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 423 N. Fess Avenue
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bloomington, IN 47405-7109
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phone: 812-855-0022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fax: 812-855-1864
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website: www.gbl.indiana.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
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