Bob (and All),

Doug and Linda's webpage has generally good information.  I have talked
to Doug, and they are both dedicated researchers, although untrained. 
Many collectors are excellent researchers.  David Whitten, a former
member of the Bottle Research Group, for example, is just as dedicated
to accuracy of information as any archaeologist.  Again, although he has
no formal training, he has a deep desire to know, and he still sends us
useful information.

Having said that, however, the direction of the research is different. 
For example, in my online books (including a new one that I wrote with
an Arizona collector, Mike Miller, that I hope to have up during the
next two or three months), I have tried to present the kind of
information about local bottles that will let local archaeologists match
up typically excavated fragments with photos and/or descriptions. 
Collectors are not thinking that way.

We need to have more archaeologists writing our studies on artifacts. 
By this, I mean proactive studies, such as our work on bottles, rather
than the typical reactive studies.  I like to think that we help provide
the springboard to help those doing field studies to make the necessary
leap.

Of course, there is little funding for this type of work.  Most of our
group never gets paid for any of our research.  I know it sounds trite,
but it is a labor of love. . .

Bill Lockhart



>>> Bob Skiles <[log in to unmask]> 9/13/2007 11:59 am >>>
Bill,

That would be a great contribution ... especially if you were able to 
develop information on the range of early closure types in the period
ca 
1885-1910. And thanks for the webpages you've provided, so far (appears
to 
be the only ones of any real value relating to the ligneous disks on
the 
whole WWW). There is a nice page of milk bottle accoutrements
illustrations 
here (including a collection of the picks or "milk cap removers" at the
very 
bottom of the page):

http://dairyantiques.com/Milk_Bottle_Go_Withs.html 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, 
without either virtue or talents ... The artificial aristocracy is a 
mischievous ingredient in government, and provisions should be made to

prevent its ascendancy."

- Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lockhart, Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Weird disks - milk lid


> This discussion makes me realize that I need to add a serious section
on
> milk bottle closures to a study I am working on — about milk
bottles.
> I now have a short section on ligneous disks and need to enlarge it.
>
> Industry literature seems to indicate (and these are my impressions,
> rather than solid facts — at least for now) that thin layers of
wood
> were used early on and were gradually replace by cardboard.  The
> original wooden disks were often removed with a special pointed tool
> that generally destroyed the disk for future use.
>
> A number of methods were introduced (including a notched bottle to
> allow access to the disk for removal without damage) to facilite
easy
> opening and resealing.  Eventually, the topmost of three cardboard
> layers was made with a thumb tab that allowed the disk to be removed
and
> replaced.  I grew up with those, although the transition to them was
> much earlier than my 1940s and1950s upbringing.
>
> Bill Lockhart
>