Deryk Barker wrote:

>Mike Leghorn ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>
>>I would like to suggest a fun little exercise: simultaneously play the
>>4-note theme from the Eroica finale and the 4-note theme from the finale
>>of the Jupiter Symphony (transposing one so they're both in the same key,
>>of course).  You might be surprised.
>
>Well, going by memory, the Mozart seems to be C-D-F-E and the Beethoven
>Eb-Bb-Bb (octave lower)-Eb.

Good memory!  I meant, after you transpose to the same key (as stated
above).  Hopefully you'll find that the two go together well.

While I'm wearing everyone out with this subject, I recently listened to
the finale of Mozart's 41st, and thought I heard some more similarities
between it and the Eroica finale:

Mozart 41, finale: measures 94 - 98
Eroica finale: measures: 314 - 318

The similarity I hear relates to the way the texture thickens and comes
to a climax, punctuated with timpani.  Granted, the Beethoven is more
bombastic.

I've found another similarity with the Jupiter finale that is probably more
convincing:

Mozart 41, finale: measures 99 - 114
Brahms 1st, finale: measures 234 - 242

Of all the Beethoven symphonies, I believe the 3rd is the most
contrapuntal, e.g.  development section in 1st movement, fugue in 2nd
movement, and tons of counterpoint in the finale.  Again, this is my
imagination, but suppose Beethoven wanted to prove, in the Eroica, that
he had no equal, not even Mozart.  I wonder if Beethoven felt oppressed
by Mozart's shadow, even at an early age.  His father tried to pedal
him as a child prodigy with less success than Mozart's father had with
Wolfgang.  Beethoven got kind of a raw deal (compared to Mozart), having
had an abusive father who tried to exploit his talent for personal gain.
I read of how his father would drag him out of bed in the middle of the
night and make him play for guests.

I apologize if I'm disseminating false information about Beethoven.  I
don't want to reinforce and perpetuate the mythical cloud surrounding the
man who was has been my spiritual mentor for much of my life.  I just want
to understand him better.

Mike