I have known more than one church choir to do a 'concert' version of Amahl
as the Christmas Cantata, or a semistaged version in the sanctuary as the
Pageant.
"Bruce Alan Wilson" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:11:13 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Amahl
Eric Goldberg:
>Personally, I think that Amahl might be Menotti's best work. The
>attractive melodies are not cloying and the emotions are not overdrawn,
>which is not waht one could say about the Consul or the Medium.
Have you ever heard The Saint of Bleecker Street? That's my favorite of his
operas.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:30:30 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Amahl
Mary Powers ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Apparently it has been out of fashion for some time now. I've never seen
>it. I thought maybe it was because it's not PC (referring to Amahl as
>"crippled" and then curing him at the end - it would probably spark a
>disability rights outcry) but Janos said it's because it foreshadowed
>Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Except that Menotti is a composer, and ALW is a pasticheur.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:37:01 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
I believe it is still possible to hear something requested played at HMV
Classical, in Oxford Street, London,but I'm not certain of this.
Doris<><
Just think of the days when music shops had a piano to try things out on-
or be played by the resident pianist! Before even MY time!
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:27:53 -0800
From: Kevin Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
Jon Gallant <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>It is incorrect because nobody DEMANDED that CDs be encrusted in a shell
>of plastic. This procedure was foisted on the public by the industry,
>for its own reasons (perhaps members with experience in CD retailing can
>explain them).
The original reason for the tall blisterpacks and cardboard boxes was so
that cds could be displayed in existing lp fixtures. Now that stores have
been retro-fitted, the jewel box only approach is used.
>Haldeman goes on to point out that the ability to SAMPLE a bit of a record
>was once a critical part of classical record retailing. [Younger campers
>might ask their grandparents the meaning of the term "listening booth".]
Ahhh, here we go again with the listening booth argument. Ok guys, when
your grandparents were buying their first records, a pop or a tick caused
by sampling before buying was hardly an issue. There was no such thing as
High fidelity in the 78 rpm era, and the novelty of being able to put on a
record, any record of a piece of music far outweighed any consideration for
sampling damage.
Now you will say that cds are indestructible etc etc. Yeah, they are, but
if I am going to pay 20 bucks for a new cd, I don't want any fingerprints
on it, nor do I want the booklet to be soiled by grimy hands.
Blockbuster music tried the "sample anything" approach when I worked for
them in the early 90s. It was an abject failure for all kinds of reasons.
The sampling bars simply became hang-outs for teenagers, and the classical
customers would come in and open 10 copies of Beethoven's 5th, listen to
10 seconds of each then leave the staff to repackage and refile the other
nine. Not an effective use of your labor force. Sorry, but those who
continue to whine about sampling have never worked in a record store, and
haven't a clue as to how much unprofitable extra work it causes.
>Haldeman suggests that the CD industry's own, deliberate exclusion of
>in-store listening is a major cause of the declining sales and long
>shelf-times of classical CDs.
He's wrong. The long shelf-life and declining sales are the direct result
of too much merchandise being on the shelves for too few buyers. It's
plain ole supply and demand, and nothing else.
>When the classical departments of the major retailers finally close down,
>it will be a well-earned death from a self-inflicted wound.
Ummm, dare I say that this statement is BS? Probably not, but I will do it
any way. The retailers are clearly NOT the cause of CMs recording sales
decline. Rather, it't the idoicy of the labels that continue to turn out
redundant product that no one wants.
Kevin
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:32:01 -0800
From: Dave Harman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
Jon Gallant wrote:
>Like so much of American business, this was a disastrously short-sighted
>move. As Phillip Haldeman asks in the Sept/Oct AMG, how well would books
>and magazines sell if they were shrinkwrapped against examination and
>browsing?
True. But, I believe the intent was to make it difficult to take the CD
out of the jewell case and walk out of the store with it. Many members
of this list remember the heavy plastic encasement that CD's came in so
the smaller sized CD case could fit in the LP-sized bins. It was really
difficult to open some of those encasements without lancing my hand on a
sharp plastic shard.
>Haldeman goes on to point out that the ability to SAMPLE a bit of a record
>was once a critical part of classical record retailing.
The Tower stores I have been in have a "sampling" station where you can
listen to selected CD's. Some Classical sections of Tower also played
tracks from CD's the employee selected. In the past, I bought some CD's
based on what I heard played in the Classical Room. This is not to deny
the validity of your point that the elimination of in-store listening is
a cause of declining sales - although I'm not sure it's a 'major' cause.
In the Tower stores I have been in, I was often the only person in the
Classical Section.
>When the classical departments of the major retailers finally close down,
>it will be a well-earned death from a self-inflicted wound.
Well put. If Tower totally eliminates all Classical sales, my buying
habits will not change. In El Paso there is only Barnes and Noble and
Wherehouse which have any classical CD's on the shelves. All my CD buying
is on the internet
Dave Harman
El Paso, TX
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:58:11 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
Jon Gallant wrote:
>It is incorrect because nobody DEMANDED that CDs be encrusted in a shell
>of plastic. This procedure was foisted on the public by the industry,
>for its own reasons (perhaps members with experience in CD retailing can
>explain them). Like so much of American business, this was a disastrously
>short-sighted move. As Phillip Haldeman asks in the Sept/Oct AMG, how well
>would books and magazines sell if they were shrinkwrapped against
>examination and browsing?
As was explained to me years ago by someone on the Internet, CDs are
shrinkwrapped not to prevent their being listened to before purchase, but
to prevent their being copied at home and then returned (ostensibly unused)
to the store for refund or exchange, something which was not so great a
risk in the days of 78s or even lps.
Walter Meyer
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:32:09 -0800
From: Jeremy Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
For Shoenberg I would recommend the Pierrot Lunaire, the 5 Orchestral
Pieces and the Verklarte Nacht (op. 4). For Berg I recommend the Complete
Piano works by Elisabeth Klein. That collection also has works from
Schoenberg and Webern. Also, if you think that you could stomach it, Berg
also put together a rather dissonant and unhappy opera, "Wozzek". As for
Webern, well, I have one of his CD's with a variety of music on it, and it
starts to sound that same after a while.
Another composer in the same catagorie is Hans Werner Henze. From him I
recommend his Requiem.
Jer
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:49:55 +0100
From: Philip Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Mike Leghorn wrote:
>Lately I've been interested in these composers. Could anyone offer some
>recommendations?
Webern: buy the complete works by Boulez on DG (6 CD's only)
Philip
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:02:59 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Mike Leghorn at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>Lately I've been interested in these composers. Could anyone offer some
>recommendations?
In my opinion Berg's Violin Concerto is the greatest work written by this
Second Vienna School. Schoenberg's early works - Verklarte Nacht, Pelleas
and Melisande, Gurrelieder, are recommended, as are the first two string
quartets. Among the later work, I like the the Violin and Piano concerti.
Bernard Chasan
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:26:21 -0500
From: Edward Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Lately I've been interested in these composers. Could anyone offer some
>recommendations?
I would recommend the Naxos recording by Peter Hill of selected piano
pieces by these three composers (Naxos 8.553870). The performance of the
Berg Op. 1 Sonata is especially noteworthy. Regards,
Edward
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:40:01 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
As a first and wonderful Webern piece, I would recommend Das Augenlicht,
("The Light of the Eye") for chorus and orchestra. Things go by so fast,
I always felt Webern best enjoyed with a score in hand. Most of his works
repay attention with beauty, in my opinion.
Morton Feldman once tried to make a case that, as beautiful as his music
is, Webern should be dropped from history because of his residence in and
complicity or anyway complacency with nazi Germany.
As an example that the three are not equally appreciated by all, I don't
personally care for anything by Shoenberg, though I tried very hard to
like the String Trio and Pierrot Lunaire. And Berg, for me, is a lesser
composer with some pretty good pieces (the Violin Concerto, for example,
and some of Lulu and Wozzeck). I imagine other readers have completely
different opinions!
William Copper
composer of Lovelife Dances
in progress now, 24 Preludes and Fugues for Piano, Opus 66
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:41:31 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Mike Leghorn:
>Lately I've been interested in these composers [Schoenberg, Berg, Webern].
>Could anyone offer some recommendations?
Happy to do it.
Berg: Violin Concerto, Szeryng on DG
Berg: Lulu, Boulez on DG
Schoenberg: Choral music, Huber on Arte Nova
Schoenberg: Chamber Symphonies, Piano Concerto (Brendel), Gielen on Philips
Schoenberg: String Quartets, Lasalle on DG
Schoenberg: Gurrelieder, Sinopoli on Teldec
Schoenberg: Various orchestral and vocal works, Dohnanyi and Mehta on
London
Webern: Orchestral works, Dohnanyi on London
Webern: Orchestral, choral, and vocal works, Boulez on DG (at least two
volumes, or you could just bite the bullet and get Boulez's complete set).
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:43:47 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
I have the following recordings - each containing a mixture of pieces in
different styles - which I can happily recommend:
a) Mitsuko Uchida playing Schoenberg's Piano Concerto, Berg's Op. 1
sonata, and solo piano music by Schoenberg & Webern, released here last
year
b) Webern orchestral music with Cleveland/Dohnanyi, reviewed not long ago
on this list
c) Berg's Seven Early Songs/Der Wein/3 Orchestral pieces, with
Abbado/VPO/von Otter.
I've recently bought the Artis quartet playing Webern's music for string
quartet, but haven't listened to it yet.
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 09:54:31 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Mike Leghorn asks:
>Lately I've been interested in these composers. Could
>anyone offer some recommendations?
Thanks for asking the question. I am thrilled that you have!!!
Here is my short list:
1. Schoenberg
Pelleas et Melisande + Variations for Orchestra:
Chicago Symphony/Pierre Boulez (Erato)
The performance of the early Straussian tone poem Pelleas is a
sheer revelation. The dodecaphonic Variations are good but a little
disappointing. Avoid Karajan's Pelleas like the plague, although his
Variations are very good.
First Chamber Symphony + Ewartung + Variations for Orchestra:
City of Birmingham SO; Simon Rattle (EMI)
The performance of the Chamber symphony belongs amongst the finest. Rattle
brings fantasy, mystery and ecstasy to the Variations and is a must for all
Schoenbergians. Hermann Scherchen (in live mono) might be better but you
still have to hear this one.
Moses und Aron: BBC SO; Pierre Boulez
I prefer the earlier recording to the latter Concertgebouw performances.
There is a sense of awe and terror when God addresses Moses through the
children's chorus that Boulez doesn't quite achieve the second time around.
The Dance Around the Golden Calf also has wonderful abandon.
String Quartets: LaSalle Quartet and Margaret Price
Absolutely essential listening. Adorno thought that the Second Quartet was
the greatest thing Schoenberg ever wrote. Comes with works by Webern and
Berg - all excellently performed. The booklet that comes with the boxed
set, with its extensive discussion and analysis, makes this especially
worth having.
Piano Concerto and Piano Pieces: Mitsuko Uchida/ Pierre Boulez.
Thoroughly commanding interpretation of the Concerto performed with total
emotional conviction. Pollini has greater incisiveness in the solo pieces,
but Uchida has more poetry. Very good recorded sound.
Five Orchestral Pieces: BBC SO/ Pierre Boulez
A totally breathtaking tour de force. Edge of the seat stuff. Blows me
away every time. Good sound.
2. Berg
Three Orchestral Pieces + Violin Concerto:
BBC SO/ Pierre Boulez + Pinchas Zuckerman
(Sony)
The best performance of the Three Pieces I have yet to hear. Not
surprising considering how good a Mahlerian Boulez is. The concerto is
good too.
Violin Concerto + Lyric Suite:
Luis Krasner with the BBC SO conducted by Anton Webern!!!
(Testament)
A live mono recording which makes a laughing mockery out of anyone that
even suggested that the music of the Second Viennese School is dry and
unemotional. This heart-wrenchingly intense performance has been captured
on one of the greatest recordings of anything ever made. Hearing Webern
conduct is a total revelation. Berg said he was the greatest Mahler
conductor since Mahler and this recording show what a superb talent he was.
Lulu: Pierre Boulez/ Paris Opera
(Deutsche Gramophon)
Obsessively fascinating and seductive. One of the most listenable of all
dodecaphonic scores.
Lulu Suite + Altenberg Lieder/ LSO Abbado
(Deutsche Gramophon)
If listening to the whole of Lulu seems too much then try this recording.
The Altenberg Lieder are also accessible.
3. Webern
Six Orchestral Pieces Op. 6 Berlin Phil/ Karajan
(Deutsche Gramophon)
Commanding performance of the devastating Opus 6. For me Karajan is still
unsurpassed. His expansive Brucknerian approach to the score really works.
I also prefer the later, sparser re-orchestration chosen by Karajan over
the original version used by Boulez. Karajan's performance of the Symphony
is also excellent.
Various 6 CD set from DG/ Emerson Quartet/ Boulez et al.
A must mainly for die-hard Webernians. The superb sound on the new
transfers for the set are a vast improvement on the original issues. So it
is advisable to get the boxed set rather than buying them one by one. Das
Augenlicht, and the late Variations are some of the highlights. I prefer
the LaSalle Quartet to the Emersons. The rival is the complete Webern on
Sony - also excellent. Again, the LaSalle Quartet is preferable to the
Julliard.
Remember that Webern is the least accessible of the three composers, so
leave him to last. Berg is definitely the easiest of the three to digest,
followed closely behind by Schoenberg. So Berg is where I would start.
And remember that Schoenberg said that he only wanted to be 'a better sort
of Tschaikovsky'.
He was.
Happy listening!
Satoshi Akima
[log in to unmask]
Sydney, Australia
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 14:37:57 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>And by the way, are you really suggesting that Boulez and Carter are not
>continuing classical standards. If so, could you tell me what standards
>they are not continuing?
They abandon melody and harmony. One need go no further.
>As a composer, I find it ridiculous that just because a piece of music
>gives someone a headache, they would be reluctant to program it. Does
>that mean that they think it will give everyone a headache, or that I wrote
>in the hope that people would get a headache, or that music that gives a
>headache should not be performed?
All of the above, more or less.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:01:47 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood replies to Karl Miller:
>Thanks to Karl Miller, I think I'm beginning to understand this argument.
>Forget all this hi-falutin' stuff about tonal vs. atonal, serial vs.
>non-serial, equal-tempered vs. well-tempered, and dodecaphonic vs., um,
>euphonic.
The technical antonym would probably be diatonic. And, of course, not all
diatonic pieces are euphonic.
>>I find it ridiculous that just because a piece of music gives someone
>>a headache, they would be reluctant to program it. Does that mean ...
>>that music that gives a headache should not be performed?
>
>Gee, lemme think here, do I or do I not want to fight the traffic, endure
>the coughers, spend the money to get a headache? Let's hear it from the
>pro-headache crowd! I'm sure the acme of this musical tradition will
>induce migraines, or perhaps, in the hands of a true genius, even brain
>tumors.
Let me put it another way. Do I really want to fight traffic, endure
coughers, etc, etc. to be bored out of my skull by music whose course I
can predict? Now, the problem in this discussion is that Jocelyn, as is her
habit, painted with too broad a brush, and the rest of us have mistakenly
stuck to the rather wide boundaries she initially set. Let me assure
everyone that I don't like a piece because it's atonal, any more than I
hate a piece because it's tonal. There are plenty of bad pieces written
either way, as well as some good ones. I'm not a fan of Schoenberg's
Moses und Aron, although I love other works by him, some of which are
dodecaphonic, some not. I don't happen to like the Corigliano music I've
heard so far, but I'm a great fan of Benjamin Lees. What seems absolutely
ridiculous to me is the a priori judgment people insist on making on the
basis of style. In its way, it's identical to the poor schnook who claims
not to like classical music at all because it's "too stuck-up." I find the
same limitation in a person who condemns pop because it's "mindless." What
do you say to someone with so little curiosity or intellectual pride? I
happen not to like most of the bel canto opera I've heard. The idiom
itself bores the earwax out of me. On the other hand, I love Donizetti's
Daughter of the Regiment. If I had dismissed the entire genre on the sole
basis of what I had heard before, I never would have bothered to listen it
and thus deprived myself of a real pleasure.
I distrust blanket condemnations. They do real harm, not only to the
person who makes them, but to the people who catch the habit. The only
thing that matters is the individual work. I would suspect that most
people who claim to love Mozart don't go gaga over every piece Mozart
wrote. If you want to foam at the mouth over the mention of Schoenberg,
at least tell me *which* Schoenberg and why.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:58:25 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Jocelyn Wang to Dave Harman:
>
>>...it has been 75 years or so since the spread of the atonal plague, and
>>all the fuss about Beethoven was well forgotten by the time 75 years had
>>passed, but it is still safe to say that the vast majority of concert-goers
>>or very much put off by atonality.
>
>It's sad to read statements as this. Less than a "demolishing" criticism
>about the majority of the XX century music (as Jocelyn seems to pursue)
>this is a clear show of the biblical proportions of her ignorance. Just
>the expression "atonal plague" indicates that, at the interesting mind
>of Jocelyn, composers so distant between them as Schoenberg, Varese and
>Lutoslawski are bounded by a strange and sordid brotherhood tie, by which
>they become more or less the same, if not equal. Now the real affinities
>between Webern and Cage, between Ligeti and Zemlinsky, between Messiaen
>and some works of Maxwell Davies are definitively brought up to light by
>the magical, original and comprehensive Jocelyn's reading of XX century
>music: they are all....atonal!!!. Concerning your sentence about "the
>vast majority of concert-goers": I don't think it's safe to say it. You
>could have a real surprise about it some day, when you go out from your
>little four wall world. Just in case: I hate Boulez's music (as many
>people do), but some of us have better arguments for that than just
>calling it "cacophony".
I'm not about to label anyone else on this list as ignorant, for, no matter
how vehemently we may disagree, they usually display an impressive amount
of factual knowledge. I was pondering whether to respond to this on- or
off-list, for what you have written is more of a personal attack on me than
on my position, which is an indication of the weakness of *your* position,
not mine. When it starts getting personal like this, I'm usually more
inclined either to respond off-list, or not at all. However..
You are in a very poor spot to declare me ignorant, regardless of how
much you disagree. Within my "little four wall world," I have spent
many hours working for a small chamber music series that included in its
very first concert about five years ago works by not one but two living
composers, and has continued to present works by living composers at a rate
that, performance for performance, I'll match with any other organization.
It is a rare concert that does not feature at least one work by a living
composer, and often we'll even feature two or three. Many of these have
been premieres. Others have been second or third performances of works,
which, many composers will tell you, are often even more difficult to
attain than premieres. In fact, I just checked, and, in all, we have
featured 58 performances of 40 works by 23 living composers. We have an
extremely talented Composer-In-Residence in R.C. Barrows, who has worked
very hard with me not only on behalf of his own music, but in a shared
commitment to presenting so many worthy works of virtually unknown living
composers. The four walls of my little world have often been those of
the facility where our concerts are held. So much for my musical
isolationism...
Yes, I did refer to atonality as cacophony, because it is just that. (This
post notwithstanding, I prefer to be brief, and "cacophony" summed it up
rather concisely.) Moreover, it is so unabashedly and intentionally.
I have heard its composers and advocates declare that we live in ugly times
that call for ugly sounds. One leader of a new music ensemble that wanted
to perform for us (and did not) scoffed at the notion that music ought to
be beautiful. This amounts to a musical philosophy that I fundamentally
reject.
Examples:
One of the musicians who performed for us told of being part of an
ensemble that was playing an atonal work. Frustrated with its utter lack
of musicality, he decided to put his time to what he determined to be a
more productive use, and started doing finger exercises on his instrument.
No one gave a clue of having even noticed. If he had done this in a Haydn
piece, I guarantee someone would have.
There was the instance of a concierge of a music school's practice rooms
who complained because, it seemed, someone let a child into a practice
room, and the child kept banging on the keys for the sake of making noise,
as children do. Having heard enough of this, the concierge went to the
room to put a stop to it, only to find no child, but a grad student
practicing Schoenberg.
Some years ago, composer Morris Cotel, who teaches at Peabody Conservatory,
received an honorable mention in a Paris musical competition for a piece he
submitted. It turned out to be a transcription of the sounds his cat made
walking across a keyboard.
Stockhausen's "Helicopter" Quartet, which calls for the members of a string
quartet to be suspended in four separate helicopters... well, it speaks
for itself.
These are only a few examples. One can go into detail about the nature of
tone rows and so forth, but the fact is that medium in which music exists
is sound, not paper, and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful. Listen
to atonality as often as you want, I'll be the last to stop you, but do
not be surprised when many, many people reject it simply because of the
fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony that it is.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:16:08 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor, agreeing with Jocelyn:
>>Ah, this tired, old, and utterly false argument yet again: people who
>>dislike atonality dislike it because they don't understand it, or they
>>just haven't heard enough of it to be used to it. Please...
Let me just interject here. The only way I can tell if someone understands
an atonal score is if they say something meaningful about it, besides
whether they like it or not. Most people who rave against atonality don't
say anything that shows that they actually understand what they've heard.
So forgive me for perhaps leaping to the wrong conclusion.
>Please, on my behalf, too. If your thing is studying scores and devining
>the atonal riddles contained in 'em then you're fit material for the Adorno
>League.
How about if my thing is getting an emotional high from the music I hear?
I haven't seen most of the scores of Webern and Schoenberg. My likes and
dislikes I've based mainly on what I hear, just as most people do for a
Beethoven symphony. I haven't seen most of those scores either (only the
Fifth, Sixth, and Ninth). The idea that you need a score to appreciate,
say, Milton Babbitt's music at all is a false one. I haven't seen *any*
Babbitt score. I happen to like some Babbitt. It really puts my undies in
a bunch that people so readily assume that no one *really* likes this stuff
or that one has to like it in some Martian, super-Brainiac way. I'm sure
that if I studied a score, I'd get more out of it, but that's true of most
great music. I don't really see the difference between Webern and anyone
else in that regard.
>It's there that they play to the notion that the more cacophonous the
>sound, the more astringent the effect, the nobler, perforce, the effort.
>An effort it surely is, but appreciation of music it is not.
Unless, of course, you *like* that effect. I like Bartok, a tonal
composer who's often not easy on the ears. Denis probably does as well.
I like Ives. I like late Debussy. I also like Vaughan Williams (just
about every piece he wrote). Now astringency for its own sake I have no
use for. Obviously, we must always talk about a particular instance. I
wouldn't reject a piece because it's astringent, either.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:49:59 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
In her reply to Satoshi Akima, Jocelyn Wang writes:
>Ah, this tired, old, and utterly false argument yet again: people who
>dislike atonality dislike it because they don't understand it, or they just
>haven't heard enough of it to be used to it. Please... I DO understand
>it, and I HAVE heard plenty of it, although I admit not being accustomed
>to it, much the same way that I would never become accustomed to it if
>you were to replace my mattress with shards of broken glass.
Ah, for perhaps the first time ever, I agree totally with Jocelyn, but
only in that I find utterly wrong the notion, that I have to understand
atonal music to enjoy it. I am afraid that my technical grasp of music
is such that I am never sure whether a piece I am listening to is atonal,
chromatic, aleatoric, serial, dodecaphonic or any combination thereof.
To put it tritely: I simply know what I like, what I respond to, and that
includes music that covers pretty much the entire range of 20th century art
music (and that range pretty much reflects the entire range of musical
history--what style, what culture, ranging from Gregorian chant to Baroque
to Romantic to modern pop to Indonesian gamelan to African drums is NOT
represented in the 20th-21st century repertoire?)
What I do know is that when I am listening to music utilizing different
techniques and styles, I have to change my ears, change my expectations,
and listen differently when I am enjoying Xenakis as opposed to
Shostakovich as opposed to Ture Rangstrom. I have my preferences, of
course, but there is almost no music that I would dismiss as worthless
or fraudulent just because I don't happen to care for it.
The most critical word I use when hearing music that I don't respond to
is 'boring' but even then I realize that this is a very personal judgment
and has no objective meaning whatsoever. Does it mean that there is no
such thing as incompetent composers? I don't think so. I recognize the
difference in skill among composers, but the fact is, achieving any degree
of success in any art, and this, I believe, is especially true for art
music composition, is so difficult and so improbable that I tend to accept
all such efforts as sincere expressions of the artist's vision. And if it
turns out that I am wrong, that I have fallen for a piece by some cynical
musical prankster, I would just have to shrug and say so what. I sincerely
believe that I am richer for what I do enjoy and poorer for what I cannot.
Regards,
John Parker
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:55:00 -0700
From: Gene Halaburt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Alceste" Libretto
I would be most appreciative if someone who has the libretto for the
French version of Gluck's "Alceste" could share it with me off-list.
The recording I have did not come with a libretto. Thanks in advance!
Gene Halaburt
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:35:01 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: And It Shall Be Called "Faye Callas"
ROME, (AFP via Andante) - U.S. actress Faye Dunaway is to produce and
star in a movie about the life of Maria Callas, and would like to have
Al Pacino at her side to play the part of Aristotle Onassis, the operatic
diva's companion. Dunaway made the announcement on Saturday, during the
sixth Capri Festival of Cinema, held on the Mediterranean island off
Italy's southwestern coast, where she received a "Legend Award."
Dunaway, who has already interpreted the opera singer for the stage in the
play Master Class, was in Capri to present Yellow Bird, a short film she
directed and in which she co-stared with actor James Coburn.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:22:08 +0100
From: Joyce Maier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Beethoven's Violin Concerto in C
Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]> asked:
>A friend has a CD containing the fragment of the Violin Concerto in C,
>WoO5, but there is little information in the notes. By consulting Grove
>and Thayer, I've found that it may have been written in Bonn or shortly
>after he arrived in Vienna and that some of it is missing, although it's
>not clear whether "it" refers to the single extant movement or to the
>entire concerto. The fragment was published in Vienna in 1879.
>
>I'd be interested to know if there is knowledge of any other movements.
By consulting Barry Cooper I've learned that we only have a part of the
first movement, but that it's likely that other part(s) of it are lost.
As for the date of composing he agrees with Grove and Thayer. He writes
nothing about other movements. There are also sketches from 1792/3 for
a piano piece based on this violin concerto, says Cooper. Various
musicologists tried to finish the fragment of the concerto and according
to Cooper Hess's attempt, published in 1959, is the best.
Joyce Maier (mail to: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask] or
jev1945@)hotmail.com)
www.ademu.com/Beethoven
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:29:48 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Classical Music at the Crossroads
Donald Satz ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>... singing voices are now considered among the best ever. Charlotte
>Church has a reputation all out of proportion to her current talents and
>skills.
I happened to (accidentally) catch her on some tv "special" the other
night. Her voice - such as it was - seems to be deteriorating already....
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:54:27 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Listening to Music
I highly enjoy this list but there is something I miss: posts that deal
with our personal reactions towards classical works. There are amazingly
profound reviews posted here and interesting discussions about certain
aspects concerning classical music. But posts that are concerned with a
work directly: they are rare. Posts that answer questions like: What
does the Eroica mean to me (or, why not try to answer it, in general)? Why
do I love Tosca (or hate Parsifal)? What do the Goldberg Variations tell us
about Bach? What idea of man and life does The Creation transport? Which
music makes me calm, nervous, angry, lusty, happy? I am highly interested
in these questions and will try to mail posts that answer questions like
the ones above.
The above questions are only variations of the one big question: Why do
we listen to classical music? Well, I can only answer this for myself.
There are three reasons for me to listen to music:
1) entertainment (in most cases I use pop and rock and Salsa music for
this, especially in the car where I love to sing the choruses of the chart
songs)
2) intellectual curiosity (music of different ages tells me about these
ages like paintings and book of different ages do; I am keen to know more
about the Zeitgeist of centuries gone and classical music can help to
provide this knowledge)
3) psychological insight (art can function as a mirror for myself: my
reactions towards a work of art, a painting, a book, a piece of music,
show me who I am)
For me the last reason (psychological insight) is the one reason to listen
to classical music (which is far more streneous than listen to Sinatra or
Depeche Mode but in most cases also far more rewarding). I am more
interested in who I am and who other people are than in disputes about
whether Harnoncourt or Gardiner is better.
Just my 2 cents (or now: 2 Euros) of opinion.
Robert
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:22:37 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Miaskovsky Symphonies
I was interested to see that Olympia has begun a series of the "symphonic
works" of Miaskovsky with the Symphonies Nos 1 and 25. This is a corner
of the repertoire that has not had a lot of attention recently and there
are quite a few of the 27 symphonies that haven't yet made it to CD. I've
been a little alarmed in recent years to find myself more tolerant of the
stretches of gloom that sometimes occur in those Miaskovsky symphonies I've
managed to acquire, but my doctor assures me it's nothing to worry about.
Presumably Olympia plans to record some sinfoniettas as well: I've tried
a number of times to like these, but without success.
The performers in this CD are the Russian Federation Academic Symphony
Orchestra with the indefatigable Evegeny Svetlanov. This reminded me of
a letter I read recently in IRR (?) in which someone listed a bewildering
list of Russian orchestras and wondered if anyone could shed light on which
was which. This name is a new one to me, and the cynic in me wonders
whether it's a variation on the old trick recording companies used to use
when it was sometimes convenient for an orchestra to be renamed for the
duration of the recording sessions. Perhaps the same Russian orchestra
has many pseudonyms.
Whatever the case, I hope this series is completed. It seems all too
common for a volume or two of some series to appear and then never to be
heard of again.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:42:55 +0100
From: Philip Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Bach Cantatas Website - First Anniversary
Aryeh Oron wrote:
>The Bach Cantatas Website is celebrating its First Year's Anniversary
Aryeh, this is in the first place your labour of love. You deserve a big
*thank you*, your contribution has been invaluable. I thoroughly enjoy the
list and the wonderful site (although I contribute little or nothing which
may be must as well ;) It's very much appreciated!
Philip
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:04:17 -0600
From: John Proffitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dvorak's (First) Cello Concerto
Yes, Joseph Chuchro and the Czech Philaharmonic under Vaclav Neumann have
recorded the Cello Concerto No. 1 for Supraphon. A CD release (midprice
on Supraphon) couples that with Mr. Chuchro's performance of the b-minor
(#2) concerto. Sorry I do not have the number of the disc.
John Proffitt
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:45:57 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ustvolskaya's Piano Concerto and First Symphony
Galina Ustvolskaya
* Piano Concerto
* Symphony No. 1
Oleg Malov (piano), Boris Pinkhasovitch & Pavel Semagin (trebles), Ural
Philharmonic Orchestra/Dmitri Liss.
Megadisc MDC 7856 {DDD} TT: 38:38
"Difficult" doesn't begin to describe the personality of Russian composer
Galina Ustvolskaya (1919 -), one of the oddest ducks in the musical pond.
She makes Beethoven seem positively genial. She gives very few interviews
(none of late) and always with a bad grace. As a Soviet composer, she
turned out the usual official drivel, but she also composed her own stuff,
essentially for the desk drawer or for some unspecified time in the future
when Soviet aesthetics were no more. Shostakovich, whose pupil she was,
admired both her music and her person. At one point, he wanted to marry
her. Ustvolskaya seems to have reacted with extreme revulsion. She has
gone to the point not only of disclaiming any musical influence from
Shostakovich, but of bad-mouthing Shostakovich as both composer and
human being just about every opportunity she gets, relegating her former
teacher to the status of trivial footnote to western music. If venom
and childishly bad manners were the unmistakable signs of genius, then
Ustvolskaya counts as one of the greatest.
In actuality, she probably *is* a genius as well as, personally, a bit of
a hypocrite. Her serious work falls into two categories: an early period,
in which (despite the vehemence of her protests) Shostakovich looms large
as an unmistakable influence; a period, beginning in the early Fifties,
in which she finds her own voice. She doesn't write much, and she doesn't
write long. She believes very strongly -- perhaps too strongly -- in
inspiration. Very few composers are inspired all the time and indeed do
much by forcing themselves to put dots on a blank staff. To a composer
who gushed that he had written his oratorio "on his knees," Vaughan
Williams replied, "I wrote Sancta Civitas on my bum." Sometimes wonderful
possibilities open up simply by sticking at it. Ustvolskaya's music burns
with the intensity of a laser, perhaps one more reason for her brief
output. One "breathes" at very few places.
The piano concerto (1946), written before she nominally apprenticed with
Shostakovich, gives the lie to her insistence that the older composer
served her merely as a negative example. The liner notes point out
resemblances in the piano writing to Shostakovich's first piano concerto.
The sound world, however, is that of the sixth symphony -- severe and
concentrated -- or perhaps the second piano trio. It leads Shostakovich
to his violin concerti and to his tenth and thirteenth symphonies, as well
as to the late quartets and to the viola sonata. Ustvolskaya does leave
the Shostakovian specifics behind, but she discovers a similar emotional
place -- dour, raw, and stripped of ornament. Ustvolskaya views her art
as religious at its core, but it's a hard religion, full of anger, pain,
and suffering. Emma Goldman once remarked, "I don't want to be part of
your revolution if I can't dance." Bach gives us the Italian Concerto as
well as the cantata Christ lag in Todesbanden, Beethoven the fifth *and*
the sixth symphonies. Both composers try to speak to our entire
experience. Ustvolskaya's art succeeds, but within much narrower limits.
The music seems to turn in on itself, rather than to open out.
The moderated classical music list ran a very long thread on Ustvolskaya
(you can search the archives at http://www.classical.net) in which someone
asserted that Ustvolskaya deliberately courts ugliness as part of her
aesthetic. While I certainly find it stark, I can't call the music
particularly ugly -- any uglier than, say, Shostakovich. It is, however,
dissonant, as is much modern stuff. The discussion thread itself
fascinates for all the "hot buttons" it manages to push about 20th-century
music.
The first symphony really comes closer to a song cycle with orchestra.
Ustvolskaya divides it into three parts: a purely instrumental prelude
and postlude (both quite short), and a central section of eight settings
of poems by Italian Communist Gianni Rodari in Russian translation. The
poems all speak to the suffering of the poor and are sung by boy trebles.
Their wood-stop timbre emphasizes the innocence of the sufferers. The
longest of these songs goes slightly over two minutes and most run around
a minute and a half or less. The composer tends to emphasize the winds and
the high violins. We normally hear a very "glassy" sound. Many have found
foreshadowings of the so-called Holy Minimalists, like Gorecki and Paert.
One hears the repetitive worrying of small cells in the symphony, but the
sheer anger and nervous energy in the music puts it, in my opinion, beyond
the "suspension of time" effect aimed at by many of the composers so
labeled. The underlying pace of the music also seems quicker. The music
changes much more readily than in Tavener, for example. This is born out
by the final part, in which the time-sense lies much closer to pre- than
to post-World War II.
Both performances are quite good. The symphony, in particular, can't be
easy to perform. Contrasts are usually subtle and far between, but Liss
makes the most of them. The piano concerto, the more "familiar" piece,
receives a committed performance from both the orchestra and the soloist,
Oleg Malov. Incidentally, Ustvolskaya is apparently on the outs with him
(he continues to champion her music) and snipes at him when she takes the
notion. No one said a great composer had to be friendly or even courteous,
and it may well be that Ustvolskaya's reclusiveness may simply suit her
better than social situations, which seem to drive her to mild pathology.
Nevertheless, however much the personality turns me off, the music
definitely turns me on.
The sound is clear, perhaps a little bright. Balances between soloists
and orchestra are good.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:38:36 +0000
From: Alexa Butterworth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: James Horner's Music
I am actually a fan of Horner's music. But in reference to imitating
music, anyone who knows the "Gladiator" soundtrack of Hans Zimmer, will
undoubtedly think of Wagner. A superb score, nonethless. He does mention
the fact on the DVD that he intentionally wanted to sound like Wagner,
and in that case, he certainly has done the job well. There are also many
parts of "Apollo 13" and "Independence Day" that sound like Copland (the
lone trumpet sound) which give a very (patriotic??) "American" feel to
these films, which is usually a part of the story - so again, doing the
job of a good soundtrack. I'm not saying that all soundtracks should copy
other composers' work to achieve the right mood, but if it conveys the
right feeling and atmosphere for the film, then I feel it is appropriate
to put that across in whatever way the composer feels is necessary. I am
a great fan of film music (my father is currently writing a book on the
subject) and apart from the obvious big-scale guys like Williams, Horner,
and David Arnold, I also like James Newton Howard (Dinosaur) and Randy
Newman. Anyway, enough rambling! best wishes, Alexa Butterworth (now
Mannerings - just got married!!)
Alexa Butterworth
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 00:55:05 -0500
From: Leslie Kinton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz writes:
>What seems absolutely
>ridiculous to me is the a priori judgment people insist on making on the
>basis of style. In its way, it's identical to the poor schnook who claims
>not to like classical music at all because it's "too stuck-up." I find the
>same limitation in a person who condemns pop because it's "mindless." What
>do you say to someone with so little curiosity or intellectual pride? I
>happen not to like most of the bel canto opera I've heard. The idiom
>itself bores the earwax out of me. On the other hand, I love Donizetti's
>Daughter of the Regiment. If I had dismissed the entire genre on the sole
>basis of what I had heard before, I never would have bothered to listen it
>and thus deprived myself of a real pleasure.
>
>I distrust blanket condemnations. They do real harm, not only to the
>person who makes them, but to the people who catch the habit. The only
>thing that matters is the individual work.
As usual, Steve is right on the mark. If someone says they hate all
they've heard of Schoenberg, that's fair comment, however much I may
disagree with their reaction; but judging a style or idiom as separate
from individual works really is bizarre. For example, I could say that
the classical period bores the hell out of me: all I need to do is focus
on 99% of the music, and ignore Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert.
Anyone listen to any Steibelt lately? Or how about that paragon of
emotional depth and originality, Diabelli? I read somewhere that there
were over 500 professional composers in Europe between 1740 and 1830.
It doesn't take much research to find out why they are mostly absent
from the concert hall today.
Isn't there some law which says, in effect, that 99% of modern music is
not very good because 99% of *all* music (or plays, or novels, or poetry,
or painting, etc. etc.) is not very good?
Leslie Kinton
Piano Faculty, The Glenn Gould Professional School, Toronto.
Anagnoson and Kinton piano duo website: http://www.pianoduo.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:23:58 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood wrote:
>Thanks to Karl Miller, I think I'm beginning to understand this argument.
>Forget all this hi-falutin' stuff about tonal vs. atonal, serial vs.
>non-serial, equal-tempered vs. well-tempered, and dodecaphonic vs., um,
>euphonic. Karl wrote,
>
>>I find it ridiculous that just because a piece of music gives someone
>>a headache, they would be reluctant to program it. Does that mean ...
>>that music that gives a headache should not be performed?
>
>Gee, lemme think here, do I or do I not want to fight the traffic, endure
>the coughers, spend the money to get a headache? Let's hear it from the
>pro-headache crowd! I'm sure the acme of this musical tradition will
>induce migraines, or perhaps, in the hands of a true genius, even brain
>tumors.
If I am reading your note correctly...I can only assume I did not put my
idea in the proper words. What is the purpose of human expression? Must
it be limited to pleasure? While I would be surprised if Carter or Boulez
wrote their music in the hopes that the listener would get a headache, if
it did...I find it fascinating that music would have such power over an
individual.
There are many levels of listening. The sensuous level is only one.
I am reminded of my senior year in High School. Reading "Portrait of an
Artist as a Young Man," gave me many "headaches." Yet now I value the range
of expression to be found in those words. However, if am looking for a
"fun read," or a story where "they all lived happily ever after," I seek
out other writers.
Karl
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:21:55 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang replies to Karl Miller:
>>And by the way, are you really suggesting that Boulez and Carter are not
>>continuing classical standards. If so, could you tell me what standards
>>they are not continuing?
>
>They abandon melody and harmony. One need go no further.
Oh, I'm afraid one must. Following quote from Slonimsky's Lexicon of
Musical Invective:
Here you have a fragment of 44 measures, where Beethoven deemed it
necessary to suspend the habeas corpus of music by stripping it of
all that might resemble melody, harmony and any sort of rhythm. . .
. Is it music, yes or no? If I am answered in the affirmative, I
would say that this does not belong to the art which I am in the
habit of considering as music.
(A. Oulibicheff, 1857, on the transition to the
last movement of the Fifth Symphony)
M. Bizet is a young musician of great and incontestable worth who
writes detestable music, one of this group of French composers who
have abdicated their individuality to place themselves in the harness
of Wagner. The Flying Dutchman drags them into the path of endless
melody on that Dead Sea of music without key, without rhythm, without
stature, elusive and horribly ennervating.
(Oscar Comettant, 1872)
Of melody, as the term is generally understood, there is but little.
(Boston Gazette, 1879, on Carmen)
. . . morbid, strained, and unnatural; much of it even
ugly. . . . Melody has become, by this time, a pretty vague term . . .
(W. F. Apthorp, 1878, on Brahms's Symphony No. 1)
What is then nowadays music, harmony, melody, rhythm, meaning, form,
when this rigmarole seriously pretends to be regarded as music?
(Hugo Wolf, 1886, on the Brahms
Cello Sonata No. 2)
And so on -- I'm still on the B's. What's quite clear is that harmony
and especially melody are subjective terms. I even remember a review
excoriating a new work (but I couldn't find it to quote) in almost the same
terms Jocelyn uses -- lack of melody and harmony. The work was Gounod's
Faust, something now known for its melodies.
I'm perfectly willing to concede that Carter and Boulez do not use
traditional harmony, and probably don't even consciously think that way.
But harmony is, among other things, a concern for the vertical sonority of
music. This neither composer has given up.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:33:52 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>Yes, I did refer to atonality as cacophony, because it is just that. (This
>post notwithstanding, I prefer to be brief, and "cacophony" summed it up
>rather concisely.) Moreover, it is so unabashedly and intentionally.
I have felt kind of interested but not bothered by this discussion, but
wanted to make one point about "atonal".... I always thought it meant
"Not Tonal" -- And over the last fifty years, for many composers, myself
included, it has come to mean, "Not Traditionally Tonal". The sounds some
composers think of can be consonant but still not tonal, or, again based
on my own music, can have tonal centers and movements, and even acoustic
dominant-tonic relationships, but still be atonal in that sense. So it
doesn't have to be cacaphony. Sometimes music can go astounding directions
without tonality: Ligeti's "Aventures" depend heavily on what is almost
improvisation by the performers, but, with good performers, they reach
that which is human in us, and that is a big part of why we love music (I
think). Carter's second string quartet does the same thing, in one of the
most lucid, clear, atonal works I know, here depending on the tiniest of
performer adjustments in pitch and especially rhythm to find the human in
the music.
William Copper
composer of Lovelife Dances
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:04:52 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>Yes, I did refer to atonality as cacophony, because it is just that. (This
>post notwithstanding, I prefer to be brief, and "cacophony" summed it up
>rather concisely.) Moreover, it is so unabashedly and intentionally.
Atonality=cacophony...it depends. If one defines cacophony as
dissonance...There are several accepted (Harvard Dictionary of Music)
approaches to the notion of dissonance and consonance. One of the most
interesting to me is the notion of the contextual or relative. In short,
a triad could be seen as a dissonance in a work that was non-tonal.
What concerns me...I am speaking only for myself, but your posts remind me
of something Berg said in an interview...
"This designation of 'atonal' was doubtless intended to disparage,
as were words like arhythmic, amelodic, asymmetyric, which came up
at the same time. But while these words were merely convenient
designations for specific cases, the word 'atonal' - I must add,
unfortunately- came to stand collectively for music of which it was
assumed not only that it had no harmonic center (to use tonality in
Rameau's sense), but was also devoid of all other musical attributes
such as melos, rhythm, form in part and whole; so that today the
designation as good as signifies a music that is no music, and is
used to imply that exact opposite of what has heretofore been considered
music."
>One of the musicians who performed for us told of being part of an
>ensemble that was playing an atonal work. Frustrated with its utter lack
>of musicality, he decided to put his time to what he determined to be a
>more productive use, and started doing finger exercises on his instrument.
>No one gave a clue of having even noticed. If he had done this in a Haydn
>piece, I guarantee someone would have.
Pity no one noticed. So what does this say. To me, it says that no one
there was sufficiently versed in the vocabulary of the work, or perhaps the
piece was not very good.
>There was the instance of a concierge of a music school's practice rooms
>who complained because, it seemed, someone let a child into a practice
>room, and the child kept banging on the keys for the sake of making noise,
>as children do. Having heard enough of this, the concierge went to the
>room to put a stop to it, only to find no child, but a grad student
>practicing Schoenberg.
One night, very late, a friend of mine was practicing the cadenza from
the first movement of the Bartok Second Piano Concerto. He was rehearsing
in the main auditorium. In walks a campus cop with his revolver drawn. He
thought my friend was destroying the piano. So, what does the ignorance of
the policeman prove?
>Some years ago, composer Morris Cotel, who teaches at Peabody Conservatory,
>received an honorable mention in a Paris musical competition for a piece he
>submitted. It turned out to be a transcription of the sounds his cat made
>walking across a keyboard.
So?
>Stockhausen's "Helicopter" Quartet, which calls for the members of a string
>quartet to be suspended in four separate helicopters... well, it speaks
>for itself.
And?
>These are only a few examples. One can go into detail about the nature of
>tone rows and so forth, but the fact is that medium in which music exists
>is sound, not paper, and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful.
To you, but perhaps not to everyone.
>Listen to atonality as often as you want, I'll be the last to stop you,
>but do not be surprised when many, many people reject it simply because
>of the fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony that it is.
I am not surprised when many people reject something because they find
it to be fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony. I am saddened that
the vocabulary might closing themselves off from content they may find
meaningful. I am also concerned when a subjective perspective is proffered
as being objective.
In a curious play of ideas, I am reminded of note Ives left in the
margin of one of his works. The note was for his copyist who would
often "correct" Ives' music. The note read, "The wrong notes are right."
Karl
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:35:25 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>Stockhausen's "Helicopter" Quartet, which calls for the members of a
>string quartet to be suspended in four separate helicopters... well,
>it speaks for itself.
No, it does not speak for itself. Being suspended with a stringed
instrument in a helicopter tells us little about the sounds that will be
heard in a recording. Beyond that, this work will say different things to
different individuals. I'm sure this work does not say the same things to
Jocelyn as it says to me.
>...and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful.
There is no automatic connection between atonality and 'awful' or any
other descriptive word of that ilk. Cutting through the subjective
response of the listener, atonality simply refers to music which is
organized without reference to a tonal center. That Jocelyn finds this
music awful has been clearly stated by her time and time again; the
repetitive comments are overstaying their welcome. Also, she likes to
buttress her personal/subjective view by letting us know that many other
folks feel the same way she does. What other folks like or don't like is
not relevant to the individual's listening experience.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:37:24 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>
>>And by the way, are you really suggesting that Boulez and Carter are not
>>continuing classical standards. If so, could you tell me what standards
>>they are not continuing?
>
>They abandon melody and harmony. One need go no further.
How so? There is a line and the harmony is as controlled as it is in Bach.
>>As a composer, I find it ridiculous that just because a piece of music
>>gives someone a headache, they would be reluctant to program it. Does
>>that mean that they think it will give everyone a headache, or that I wrote
>>in the hope that people would get a headache, or that music that gives a
>>headache should not be performed?
>
>All of the above, more or less.
Would I be correct to assume that for you, human expression need only be
limited to what a majority find pleasurable?
Karl
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:44:08 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz replies to Karl Miller's clever observation:
>>Gee, lemme think here, do I or do I not want to fight the traffic, endure
>>the coughers, spend the money to get a headache? Let's hear it from the
>>pro-headache crowd! I'm sure the acme of this musical tradition will
>>induce migraines, or perhaps, in the hands of a true genius, even brain
>>tumors.
>
>Let me put it another way. Do I really want to fight traffic, endure
>coughers, etc, etc. to be bored out of my skull by music whose course I
>can predict? Now, the problem in this discussion is that Jocelyn, as is her
>habit, painted with too broad a brush, and the rest of us have mistakenly
>stuck to the rather wide boundaries she initially set.
I find it ironic that you say I painted with too broad a brush immediately
after complaining about music whose course you can predict. By that line
of reasoning, one might conclude that you never listen to the same piece
of music twice. After all, if you've heard it more than once, or at least
often enough to become familiar with it, its course is known to you, and
therefore you, by your own words, would be bored out of your skull by its
predictability. But anyone who is not a stranger to your posts knows that
this is not the case, so one is left to speculate about what you actually
meant. Moreover, you so completely sidestepped Karl Miller's question in
such a deftly ballet-like manner that it took me a while to notice.
>Let me assure everyone that I don't like a piece because it's atonal,
>any more than I hate a piece because it's tonal. There are plenty of bad
>pieces written either way, as well as some good ones. I'm not a fan of
>Schoenberg's Moses und Aron, although I love other works by him, some of
>which are dodecaphonic, some not. I don't happen to like the Corigliano
>music I've heard so far, but I'm a great fan of Benjamin Lees. What seems
>absolutely ridiculous to me is the a priori judgment people insist on
>making on the basis of style.
That's a bit like me saying that I don't like being bludgeoned with a
hammer, and you criticizing me for condemning being bludgeoned by any
hammer just because I haven't been bludgeoned by all hammers. (I realize
the idea of so many hammers bludgeoning me might be appealing to some
offended by my views on atonality, but I think I'll pass.)
Dennis Fodor summed it up concisely when he wrote:
>It's there that they play to the notion that the more cacophonous the
>sound, the more astringent the effect, the nobler, perforce, the effort.
>An effort it surely is, but appreciation of music it is not.
You implied that you like that effect. Fine, you're free to listen to it
as much as you like. I and others who condemn atonality do so based on the
fact that it is designed to create such cacophony (an accurate and brief
reason), which is why it is entirely reasonable to avoid it.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:28:29 +0000
From: Christopher Webber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: James Horner's Music
Tim Mahon <[log in to unmask]> writes:A
>Over the Christmas period I watched two movies with Horner scores. The
>first was the Hopkins/Banderas "The Mask of Zorro", in which I thought
>the music was atmospheric and evocative -- therefore effective.
Tim mentions Horner's 'rip-offs' in other contexts. Having also seen and
thoroughly enjoyed "The Mask of Zorro" I'm sorry to report that 'rip-off'
is the name of the game here, too. This time Chapi's zarzuela masterpiece
"La revoltosa" gets the treatment for themes, harmonies and general
inspiration.
Apart from this distracting theft I found the score blended appropriately
into the background - and was therefore a perfectly good film score.
To amplify my sour post-prandial note, I found the most dispiriting
BBC Radio 3 broadcast over the Festive season was the repeat of Elmer
Bernstein's Hollywood Film Music Prom concert. None of this dreary stuff
- doubtless perfectly adequate in its original context - stood up on its
own concert feet; and some of it (even the Korngold) sounded frankly
incompetent. No wonder, when most of it was cobbled together in minutes
by excellent professionals working under pressure. Apart from gratifying
film and nostalgia freaks, rehashing it publicly has little obvious
entertainment let alone musical value.
There is some marvellous film music: some of the Walton, Prokoviev
and Shostakovich scores come to mind. But why does the BBC foist these
mediocre Hollywood trimmings from this over-exposed genre on its audience,
whilst ignoring so much good European and American "light classic"
material? Anderson, Binge, Padilla ....
I suppose its all to do with the desperate attempt to yoke stuffy old
Classical Music to the cart of the prevalent popular culture. Live
theatre has fallen into the same, TV and film-obsessed venus fly-trap.
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.nashwan.demon.co.uk/zarzuela.htm
"ZARZUELA!"
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:58:16 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: James Horner's Music
Tim Mahon wrote:
>I realise imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and that many Dead
>White European composers (among others) have lifted good ideas from their
>contemporaries or predecessors. But this struck me so forcefully I wonder
>whether any other Lister has felt the same -- and whether anything has ever
>been made of it?
There have been many reviews which suggest as much. My first exposure to
his music was the score for "Battle Beyond the Stars." The music was, to my
ears, a bad imitation of the music of Jerry Goldsmith.
Some years ago I gave away most of the Horner scores I had in my
collection. I can't honestly say that I have ever seen any of the movies
he has scored, so I can't comment on his dramatic sense.
Karl
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 13:49:43 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: James Horner's Music
I greatly enjoyed Hans Doldinger's score to the Neverending story.
Sometimes I will look through the credits to find the composer's name and
it will be new to me, and I'll want to look for more films or compositions
by the same composer. Is there a resource for searching for works/films by
film composer?
Michael Cooper
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:34:51 EST
From: Elle Hogan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Listening to Music
[log in to unmask] writes:
>I am more interested in who I am and who other people are than in disputes
>about whether Harnoncourt or Gardiner is better.
Oooh Robert,
Thank you for your post. I've had a similar crit of this list, but figured
I was the only one. I've had the feeling that many answers posted here are
just excuses for showing off the massive sizes of the cd collections we
have.
To counter your comment Re: the athleticism of listening to /appreciating
classical music...I have to disagree.
For me, there is nothing in the world easier and more comforting to listen
to than say, The Goldberg Variations (by anyone...I'm no snob, I played
this in college, probably terribly, but I enjoyed even MY interpretation),
or Handel's Water Music, or Bach's Coffee Cantata. I love to listen to
Lully's Atys after a long day...it just lays my nerves down (sorry guys,
please don't think I'm a castrating bitch).
My husband is a blues musician, and he has no interest in listening to
opera, wouldn't know Uchida's touch, and can't tell Handel from Bach, but
at dinner, even he will concede control of the cd player, and agrees that
food is often more easily digested listening to some of my "gentler"
selections.
Here's to a novel discussion!
Just why do we love the music we love? What does it feel like? When do we
listen to it? How does it change us?
Looking forward to this thread's curls and squiggles...
Elle
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:11:16 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Listening to Music
[log in to unmask] writes:
>I am more interested in who I am and who other people are than in disputes
>whether Harnoncourt or Gardiner is better.
I am also more interested in who I am. However, at 54 years of age, I
think I've got myself figured out, and I don't assume that others have
any particular desire to hear about it.
My love of music certainly takes precedence over "which recording is
better", but that love leads to my wanting every version which I feel has
something unique to say about the music I love.
When doing reviews, the strong attachment one feels to a particular work
and the reasons for it can certainly be communicated in the review process.
However, it is so easy to get caught up in the little details of reviewing
and neglect other aspects.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:26:39 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: And It Shall Be Called "Faye Callas"
I can't see someone so "cool" playing the passionate and volatile Callas:
of whom I am an afficionado. (sounds better in the mature years than"fan",
tho' it doesn't seem quite right when applied to football)
Maybe the subject title here will eventually be "Faye'd Away"?
Doris
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:09:09 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Anniversaries of 2002
Listening to some Cavalli on the BBC while feeding the baby last night
set me thinking which composers' anniversaries are celebrated in 2002.
Off the top of our head we thought of Walton (100/birth), Durufle (ditto)
and Cavalli (400/birth). I'm sure there are others, but I suspect not of
anyone more distinguished than Walton, and although I am an admirer of his
music, I have to admit that on this evidence 2002 doesn't sound like a good
year for commemorations. (Durufle's music I enjoy up to a point but I have
never understood the veneration paid to him by some of my musical friends,
and Cavalli just bores me rigid, I'm afraid).
So which other anniversaries can be celebrated this year? And are there
other years which are equally lacking in outstanding ones? (I define
anniversary as n years since birth or death, where n is a multiple of 50).
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:08:04 -0200
From: Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bach Organ Works
Would anyone recommend me Rubsam recording of the Schubler Chorales on
Naxos? The price is rather attractive, but I won't buy it if it's crap.
thanks.
Marcelo
Brasilia, Brasil
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 21:17:49 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Amahl
deryk barker wrote:
>>Janos said it's because it foreshadowed Andrew Lloyd Webber.
>
>Except that Menotti is a composer, and ALW is a pasticheur.
I didn't mean to equate the two, not by a long shot, hence the use of
"foreshadowed." Still, when you hear "The Last Savage" (which I did,
sitting next to Menotti and facing the job of reviewing it in the next
day's newspaper...:), you wish somebody mentioned "pasticheur" 25 years
ago, when that little incident took place.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:11:38 +0000
From: Fernando Canhadas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
I've bought the excellent late piano sonatas CD, performed by Maurizio
Pollini on Deutsche. I've been amazed with the sonata 32 (op. 111),
especially its third movement. It's really unbelievable the jazz feeling
and the swing contained in a long part of the piece, completed in 1822 (!).
For a while, listening to that song, I thought it was the best Gershwin
song I've ever heard.
Does anybody know if there is some critic/article about it? (I mean the
extreme similarity between that sonata and jazz piano). Also, I would be
glad to hear your knowledge about another examples of how the Beethoven's
music had influenced the 30-40's jazz.
Thanks in advance,
Fernando Canhadas
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 02:10:23 -0500
From: Eric Schissel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Miaskovsky Symphonies
This is a reissue on individual disks of an already-completed cycle- for
full details see http://www.recordsinternational.com/RICatalogJun01.html:
the original set contains the two string sinfoniettas, the Salutation
overture op. 48, the op. 71 Slavonic Rhapsody, the Overture pathetique
op. 76, Alastor after Shelley, op. 14, Silentium op. 9, the three works
op. 32 (including the first of the string sinfoniettas,) the divertimento
op. 80, and Zvenya op. 65 (a look at Onno van Riijen's page also suggests
that it contains the op. 10 early full-orchestra sinfonietta as well,
otherwise unavailable on recording, iirc, though this is not mentioned in
the listing given at Records International...) The recordings of the
symphonies are mostly from 1991-3 (except for syms. 3 (rec. 1965; I have
that recording, which I bought in London in 1993), 19 (rec. 1970) and 22
(rec. 1970) 24/25 and 17 from this cycle were released around 1991, as I
recall... (I have the former.) A rumor has circulated on
rec.music.classical.recordings that 1) Olympia will not in fact be able to
pay for the distribution etc. of these Svetlanov recordings after all; 2)
Olympia itself may be in some trouble.... I certainly hope not!! There
are also the cycles on Naxos (24/25 to be released late this year,
according to an email I received from Mr. Heymann) and BIS (according to
Gramophone) to be expected.
-Eric Schissel, biased and confirmed Miaskovskii fan (sorry!)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:31:21 -0700
From: Mike Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - The Soundtrack
Mitch Friedfeld wrote:
>Went with the family to see Lord of the Rings last night. I thought
>the soundtrack, by Howard Shore, was better than excellent, much more
>evocative than that which has accompanied similar recent epics. Comments?
Well, I actually bought the soundtrack CD and listened through it a
couple times before I seeing the movie. IMHO, the movie is very fine and
as faithful to "The Fellowship of the Ring" as it is possible to be within
the constraints of the running time (186' as I recall) and commercial
viability. Like Mitch, I thought the soundtrack very good...my only whine
was too frequent (for me) use of the chorus to underline "evil" beings or
events. A bit gratuitous with that device, perhaps. That nit aside, the
orchestral playing is first rate.
Now, here's a teaser for when you have the soundtrack CD: Both the London
Phil and the New Zealand SO are credited, but without identifying which
orchestra plays which tracks. I can hazard a guess on most of them, but...
Anyone want to jump in on that bit of arcana?
>And shock of shocks: The music that they played before the coming
>attractions came on was not the usual soundtrack or Top 40 hits, but
>Beethoven 6!
Wonderful, but which recording? ;)
Cheers,
Mike Smith
Boulder, Colorado
(a Tolkien fan since first reading LOTR in high school, c. 1967)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:15:10 -0200
From: Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Paths to Music
I'm a passionate classical music lover for over 10 years now, what makes
me, I guess, a beginner in comparison to most of you.
I'm always trying to 'convert' people who dislike this kind of music. I've
tried to teach a course to some friends and experienced success sometimes.
I'm currently teaching my girlfriend.
She's already able to recognize Baroque,Classic,Romantic and Modern. I
recommended a lot of Mozart, as I think he makes the most suitable starting
point...but does him?
when I try to introduce someone to the world of classical music I favor
one composer over all the others, simply because I started loving music
this way...but I'm not sure if this is the best method in a course. Of
course, I don't deprive my 'students' of knowing other composers:I show
them everything but I strongly recommend to focus on only one.
I chose Mozart, but I haven't started with him myself. My route of
most listened composers periods has been: 1-Tchaikovski, 2-Beethoven,
3-Bach,4-Brahms. Could anyone trace a similar chronology of their musical
story?
Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:54:26 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More Improvs from Amsterdam
Just posted some more improvisations from the Stichting SWING workshop
and concert in Amsterdam in which my group TRAMUNTANA participated. Four
selections for chamber ensemble of 10 players, one with a guest conductor
whom we picked from the audience to lead us in an improv.
It's all in good fun and can be heard in streaming mp3 format at
http://mp3.com/TRAMUNTANA.
Happy New Year to all!!!!
David Runnion
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 22:55:19 EST
From: Kathy Roberts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Roberta Alexander, Renowned Soprano
I maintain the web page of the very talented Roberta Alexander, Soprano.
Among the most compelling singing actresses of our time, American soprano
Roberta Alexander enjoys international renown for her riveting, incisive
characterizations, miraculous vocal and dramatic range.
Roberta will be performing on Monday, April 1, 2002, 7:30 pm at the Camp
Concert Hall, Booker Hall of Music. This event is sponsored in part by the
University of Richmond Cultural Affairs Committee and the Department of
Music. "Alexander sings with intense personal involvement, a tone both
sweet and plaintive and a deep sensitivity to the power and meaning of
the words." -'The Washington Post
To visit Roberta's web site:
http://www.giftofstrength.com/Roberta_Alexander-American_Soprano.htm
Kathy Roberts
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:17:26 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
I have his orchestral renderings of some Brahms, which I really love.
Maybe I'll give his own music a try next time it's on Radio 3.
Doris<><
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:11:32 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
Kevin Sutton ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Ahhh, here we go again with the listening booth argument. Ok guys, when
>your grandparents were buying their first records, a pop or a tick caused
>by sampling before buying was hardly an issue.
Well, Kevin, my extremely young friend, listening booths were still around
when *I* was buying my first records and 78s had long gone. And scratches
caused by sampling *were* an issue, believe me
>Now you will say that cds are indestructible etc etc. Yeah, they are, but
>if I am going to pay 20 bucks for a new cd, I don't want any fingerprints
>on it, nor do I want the booklet to be soiled by grimy hands.
It is not necessary for the customer to have physical access to the disc;
it is quite possible (as in many libraries) for listening booths to be
centrally fed and controlled by the staff.
>Blockbuster music tried the "sample anything" approach when I worked for
>them in the early 90s. It was an abject failure for all kinds of reasons.
>The sampling bars simply became hang-outs for teenagers, and the classical
>customers would come in and open 10 copies of Beethoven's 5th, listen to
>10 seconds of each then leave the staff to repackage and refile the other
>nine. Not an effective use of your labor force. Sorry, but those who
>continue to whine about sampling have never worked in a record store, and
>haven't a clue as to how much unprofitable extra work it causes.
Now this is a completely different argument. However, faced with 10
versions (only 10?) of Beethoven 5, isn't it reasonable that the customer
should be able to sample?
>>Haldeman suggests that the CD industry's own, deliberate exclusion of
>>in-store listening is a major cause of the declining sales and long
>>shelf-times of classical CDs.
>
>He's wrong. The long shelf-life and declining sales are the direct result
>of too much merchandise being on the shelves for too few buyers. It's
>plain ole supply and demand, and nothing else.
Ah, but what causes the demand to shrink? It's not as simple as that. How
could the demand be unaffected, for example, by the discontinuing of the
weekly NBC broadcasts of Toscanini and the NBC SO? (I know it's 50 years
ago but...)
>>When the classical departments of the major retailers finally close down,
>>it will be a well-earned death from a self-inflicted wound.
>
>Ummm, dare I say that this statement is BS? Probably not, but I will do it
>any way. The retailers are clearly NOT the cause of CMs recording sales
>decline. Rather, it't the idoicy of the labels that continue to turn out
>redundant product that no one wants.
Unfortunately today's "marketing" geniuses must be largely responsible for
this.
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:42:57 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 24 Preludes and Fugues
Greetings, Classical list,
In trying to satisfy a friend's need for solo piano music, I accidentally
began to write preludes and fugues. Now I am embarking on a full set, one
each in every major and minor key. This, despite that I would say that
most of my music is not traditionally tonal (see Jocelyn Wang, discussion
leader on this list about the subject "atonal":o).
Since this will be a big project, I am looking for "subscribers". I will
send copies to you as they are completed, and you "pay" in your favorite
coin: nice words, criticism, money, your own scores, anything.
At the end of 2002, the project should be finished. If you have remained
a "subscriber" throughout the process, your name will be included in a
list in the completed score for the set. At this point, I have completed
3 preludes and almost 2 fugues, so it is still quite early in the writing,
but I have sketched out several more preludes and fugue subjects.
Prelude #1 is available in pdf format (2 pages), printable for your
non-commercial purposes. Please look at it, play it, and let me know if
you'd like more. My goal is that the set be not more difficult to play
than Bach's Well Tempered Clavier or Shostakovich's set of 24 Preludes
and Fugues opus 87. My first prelude is likely to be one of the easiest
to play of the set.
Prelude #1: http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_prelude_op66_1.pdf
William Copper, www.hartenshield.com
composer of Lovelife Dances (2001), Stabat Mater (2001), Romance for
Violin and Orchestra (2001),
and 24 Preludes and Fugues, opus 66 (2002)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:31:58 +0100
From: Bruno Galeron <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Berlioz's Operas
I have another question about opera's libretti. Can we find and buy them
alone like plays, in pocket format for example? Regards,
Bruno Galeron
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:03:49 -0600
From: Terry Newstrom <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: James Horner's Music
Michael Cooper asked:
>I greatly enjoyed Hans Doldinger's score to the Neverending story.
>Sometimes I will look through the credits to find the composer's
>name and it will be new to me, and I'll want to look for more
>films or compositions by the same composer. Is there a resource
>for searching for works/films by film composer?
Try www.imdb.com -- although you cannot search specifically for "composer"
or "arranger", just entering "Doldinger" in the general search field brings
up some 70 movies (including a few TV ones) for which he was the composer.
Terry L Newstrom
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:19:49 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Listening to Music
Elle Hogan commented that...
>I've had the feeling that many answers posted here are just excuses
>for showing off the massive sizes of the cd collections we have.
'Can't say I've noticed much of this kind of posturing. My feeling is
that many appreciate some of the tips we get 'here,' and reciprocate with
recommendations of our own -- which, granted, may look narcissistic.
>My husband is a blues musician, and he has no interest in [CM]
>listening... [but] agrees that food is often more easily digested
>listening to some of my "gentler" selections.
If you're referring to playing music during meals, we must again differ:
I'd only listen to music while eating solo. To me, it would be like going
for a stroll with someone and taking the opportunity to catch up with
others by cell phone.
Bert Bailey, in Ottawa
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:52:01 -0000
From: Len Mullenger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - The Soundtrack
Mitch Friedfeld wrote:
>Went with the family to see Lord of the Rings last night. I thought
>the soundtrack, by Howard Shore, was better than excellent, much more
>evocative than that which has accompanied similar recent epics.
This score has totally divided the reviewers on Film Music on the Web
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/film/2002/Jan02/LordoftheRings.html Currently
that page shows three reviewers opinions with a fourth being added shortly
Len Mullenger
Founder MusicWeb
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:31:02 -0800
From: Susan Juhl <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Palindromes in Music
The year is 2002 -- which of course leads one to an exploration of
palindromes in music.
The ones I read about are: the prelude and postlude from Hindemuth's Ludus
Tonalis, Act Three of Berg's Lulu, and Bartok's 5th String Quartet.
Anyone know of others?
(ALL of Act 3?...)
Susan
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 06:00:45 -0000
From: Len Mullenger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New Articles on MusicWeb
Three new articles on MusicWeb that might interest you
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Feb02/1aFeb02-1.htm
WILL THE AUDIENCE MIND STANDING UP? ........ Arthur Butterworth
a discussion of the role of the National Anthem
EXCLUSIVE Interview with Adriano by Rob Barnett
Richard Wetz (1875-1935) as Composer By Eric Schissel
The Rise and Fall of Popular Music is coming along
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/RiseandFall/index.htm
Chapters 1-15 now on-line.
Len Mullenger
Founder MusicWeb
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:44:20 -0800
From: Kevin Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
>It is not necessary for the customer to have physical access to the disc;
>it is quite possible (as in many libraries) for listening booths to be
>centrally fed and controlled by the staff.
True. Nonetheless, I had more than one customer request a discount for
buying a sampled disc. (People think in funny ways) and clerks have grimy
fingers too. Further, the jewelbox hinges were forever breaking and with
those damned celophane stickers on the top of the discs, it was an even
bigger headache. Furthermore, listening libraies are usually staffed by
students (I don't know of any that are NOT related to universities around
here) and they get paid diddly. Store clerks have other responsibilites,
and it is not at all cost effective to have someone do nothing but spin
cds. It's an ineffective selling tool, and it failed!
>Now this is a completely different argument. However, faced with 10
>versions (only 10?) of Beethoven 5, isn't it reasonable that the customer
>should be able to sample?
Reasonable, yes. A good business practice given the ratio of samples to
sales. No. I stand behind my argument.
>Ah, but what causes the demand to shrink? It's not as simple as that. How
>could the demand be unaffected, for example, by the discontinuing of the
>weekly NBC broadcasts of Toscanini and the NBC SO? (I know it's 50 years
>ago but...)
This is a good point. But then, how did the demand for Toscanini concerts
shrink to the point that we no longer have them?
Kevin Sutton
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:09:00 EST
From: Elle Hogan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
[log in to unmask] writes:
>I chose Mozart, but I haven't started with him myself. My route of
>most listened composers periods has been: 1-Tchaikovski, 2-Beethoven,
>3-Bach,4-Brahms. Could anyone trace a similar chronology of their musical
>story?
Oh Lordy. I'm going to let myself remember.
Piano. Started learning piano around 4. My mother played...she played
Tchaikovsky and Frankie Carle. Those are my earliest sound memories.
However, my first memory of enjoying what I played was...God, it's a toss
up, Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Liszt. Ah, NO...my first big love was:
Schubert! Then Chopin. Wow. Grandmother played Liszt. Great good
memories of that. Hm. Loved Liszt and Dvorak from her influence. That
was my really early life.
Seems I was introduced to Italian opera by my grandmother before I ever
went to school too. Lily Pons...wow.
Bach - inventions were supposed to be punishment - but I *Loved* to play
them.
Loved all moderns in college. Crazy fool for 12 tone music. Everything
I had not been raised with, I loved. Ives, Cage, Stravinsky, Shostakovich.
Yes. Such fun. Not the romantic cavity producing stuff I had had to play
as a kid.
Now, my library is pretty eclectic. Bellini, Adams, Strauss- oh man
something like Ariadne auf Naxos just slays me. Donizetti's Don Pasquale
too, just makes my heart about burst...that charmin cello riff...oh how it
sings...
Well, that, I am sure, is no answer to your question. But I think that
in the long run, it shows that the *order* or *musical path* really depends
on whether or not the person being interviewed has a technical (music)
background, or was raised hearing music in the home. I think that what
you're doing is wonderful. Study it, hear it, bathe in it, and share it.
By the way, I'm listening to Alina by Arvo Part right now...so meditative
and ... well...
cheers,
Ellen
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:12:49 -0000
From: Tim Horwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
A few more...
1602 Death of Thomas Morley
1752 Birth of Muzio Clementi
1852 Birth of Charles Stanford
1902 Birth of Richard Rodgers
Tim Horwood
[There's a list of composer birth and death anniversaries at Classical Net
in the Composer Works and Data section (see list #8). -Dave]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:48:18 -0000
From: Len Mullenger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Not good for anniversaries
I have found these
1852
Hans Huber born
Charles Villiers Stanford born
Francisco tarrega born
1902
Herbert Menges born
Edgar Deale born
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/deale/index.htm
1952
Knussen was born
Langaard died
Len Mullenger
Founder MusicWeb
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:57:30 -0500
From: Thanh-Tam Le <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Indeed, 2002 may not be a formidable year under that respect, yet from
a different point of view, every single year is distressingly good for
anniversaries. I mean distressingly to the extent that when the end of the
year comes, you realize that yet another opportunity to unveil a number of
forgotten gems has been wasted. It never misses. And yet we keep
believing in miracles and taking comfort in such lists every January.
So here are a few composers to celebrate, with apologies for all redundancy
with other posts to be published by the time this one comes through.
Hans Abrahamsen (1952), hailed by some as the most gifted Danish composer
in his generation (Ruders is better known, though). "Winternacht" is
magical.
Sten Broman (1902-1983), a mystery gap in the CD catalogue, as is Fortner
in Germany - highly esteemed composers, once performed by major conductors
and orchestras, with no small reason in Fortner's case as, it seems, in
Broman's. Surely Ehrling's performances could be brought back to life, or
he could be asked to record some more.
Dimitrije Buzarovski (1952), an influential composer in present-day
Macedonia, whose music I would very much like to discover.
Vissarion Chebaline (1902-1963), to the least an endearing character - read
Karetnikov's book - and also a genuine, if traditional musician, as can be
heard in his string quartets, for instance.
Federico de Freitas (1902-1980), strong personality in Portuguese music,
who left some truly beautiful works, such as his flute concerto, his
sonatas for violin with cello and piano respectively.
Halvor Haug (1952), worthy Nordic symphonist, for whom Simpson was full of
praise.
Hans Huber (1852-1921), sometimes hailed as "the Swiss Brahms", a bit too
rhapsodic for some tastes, yet, at his best, quite picturesque and full of
warmth and invention.
Oliver Knussen (1952), rather familiar to many listers, I presume.
Mihovil Logar (1902-1998), Serbian composer who reportedly brought a Late
Romantic-Straussian trend into his country's music. I might be able to
tell more about him in a few weeks.
Dimitar Nenov (1902-1953), tragic figure in Bulgarian music, one of the
most brilliant and original composers in the 1920s and 1930s, a respected
teacher who refused to conform to socialist realism after WWII, was
dismissed from his job at the Music Academy and died shortly afterwards.
Wolfgang Rihm (1952), highly versatile and prolific composer whose most
inspired works can be memorable.
Sir Charles Villiers Stanford (1852-1924), not exactly unknown, but
somewhat underestimated, I think. Not only some Irish Rhapsodies, but also
works such as the 5th symphony and the 1st violin concerto are not so far
behind the truly great among his contemporaries.
John Vincent (1902-1977), who replaced Arnold Schoenberg after his death,
and was about as remote from serialism as could be. Best known for his
symphony, a festive, vital work once championed by Ormandy.
Stefan Wolpe (1902-1972), much closer to the Second Viennese School, whose
universe is not only challenging and virtuosic, but also very colorful,
even buoyant at times, intensely (and sometimes movingly) alive.
Best wishes for the nascent year,
Thanh-Tam Le
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 02:53:18 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bach Organ Works
Marcelo Ramos Araujo writes:
>Would anyone recommend to me the Rubsam recording of the Schubler
>Chorales on Naxos? The price is rather attractive, but I won't buy
>it if it's crap.
I have no idea why Marcelo would think that Rubsam's Bach might be crap,
but my personal opinion is that every Bach organ recording performed by
Rubsam and issued by Naxos is worth much more than the bargain-basement
Naxos price. Rubsam takes no back seat to any other organist who has
recorded this repertoire.
Don Satz
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:21:01 +0100
From: Bruno Galeron <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bach Organ Works
Donald Satz wrote:
>The set might possibly constitute the Berlin Classics/Bach series on
>Silbermann organs. Does the front or back cover have anything to say about
>the choice of organs? If this is the Silbermann series, buy it immediately.
Yes, this is the Silbermann series. I followed your advice and bought it
this week! The price was ridiculously cheap: 36 euros. This box set
contains 15 CDs!!!!!
>For a great complete set of Bach organ works, you can't do better than the
>Helmut Walcha on Archiv and the Lionel Rogg on Harmonia Mundi. Both are
>currently available at less than mid-price per disc.
I've done some researches and the Rogg complete recordings are really cheap
too (around 40 euros!!!). I think Walcha's are unavailable now although
some stores seem to have some copies left. However it is more "expensive"
than the 2 others (on Harmonia Mundi and Berlin classics). I only hope
Walcha complete series will be reissued in the same small box format we
usually see now from DG, Philips, Emi...
>Bruno also indicated some lack of intimacy with Bach's organ music and the
>recordings. The only way I know that he can gain the insight is to listen
>to/sample different styles of performances.
You're right. All I can say now considering my lack of experience with
organ music is this: I love warm and full sounds, both gorgeous but
measured. I love calm and meditative music, so slower tempi should be
ideal for me. As I am not a musician I can't be more precise but I hope
this can give you a little idea.
From what I've just heard from the Berlin Classics series, I think these
recordings meet my expectations (or at least a good part, especially
regarding the sound of the organs used!).
Unfortunately, I've noticed some saturation in some cues (I haven't
listened to them all but I think it only concerns very few cues). Yet
these recordings are not very old: they were mainly made during the 60s.
Has anyone else noticed this with their own copies? For example in the
Fantasia from BWV 542 (performed by Herbert Collum - volume 4 from the box
set).
>The main thing is that Bruno or others who want to immerse themselves in
>Bach organ have to get a good signal on what appeals to them. There are so
>many Bach organ recordings on the market that it can be rather daunting
>without any frame of reference.
Now, one of my very first references is the Silbermann series. Actually I
already had some solo recordings from a Silbermann organ in addition to the
recording of TILGER, HOCHSTER, MEIN SUNDEN (on Temperaments/Radio France).
And it's superb! Untill now I had mainly listened to TILGE...
I also have a recording on Hanssler by Kay Johannsen (The Young Bach - A
Virtuoso). At first I was a little disappointed because I found the sound
of the organ rather cold and lighter than I expected. However, I have no
doubts that I will rediscovered it later. It is highly rated by many.
At last, I also know an old 1947 recording of the famous Toccata and Fugue
by Walcha on DG (reissued for the 100th anniversary of the label). I must
say that I am really curious to hear his more recent recordings because
it's my favourite Toccata untill now (but as you can see, I know only 3
different recordings!).
>Sorry to have gotten off track. Anytime Bruno likes, feel free to contact
>me privately; I think I can be of service.
Many thanks. I won't hesitate! Regards,
Bruno Galeron
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:35:01 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Fernando Canhadas ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Does anybody know if there is some critic/article about it? (I mean the
>extreme similarity between that sonata and jazz piano).
It's certainly an observation I've seen made numerous times - somebody even
called it the "boogie-woofie passage" (in r.m.c?) IIRC. I don't know of
any article on the matter though.
>Also, I would be glad to hear your knowledge about another examples of how
>the Beethoven's music had influenced the 30-40's jazz.
You are assuming that Op.11 did - I'm not sure that's necessarily the case.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:00:46 -0200
From: Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
I have the same impression listening to variation #3 of the last movement
of op111...it miraculously anticipates jazz, in a transcedental manner.
But I've never had the opportunity to read anything about it. I know it
has to do with the snycopated rythm, but is that all? Anyhow, that's one
of the most sublime moments in the history of western music.
Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 00:48:06 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Fernando Canhadas wrote:
>I've bought the excellent late piano sonatas CD, performed by Maurizio
>Pollini on Deutsche. I've been amazed with the sonata 32 (op. 111),
>especially its third movement.
What you call the third movement is actually part of the second movement.
Indeed, it is said that when someone who should have known better asked
Beethoven why he hadn't written a third movement to the sonata he replied
that he didn't have the time and had therefore somewhat expanded the second
movement instead.
>It's really unbelievable the jazz feeling and the swing contained in a
>long part of the piece, completed in 1822 (!).
Quite true. You find it not only in the Opus 111 but in his early works as
well, as in the last movement to his First Piano Concerto.
>For a while, listening to that song, I thought it was the best Gershwin
>song I've ever heard.
>
>Does anybody know if there is some critic/article about it? (I mean the
>extreme similarity between that sonata and jazz piano).
A discussion I always enjoyed was in Chapter VIII of Thomas Mann's *Doktor
Faustus* in which the town's organist delivers a series of musical
lectures, one of which is on the second movement of Beethoven's Opus 111.
Walter Meyer
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:17:27 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Steve Schwartz predictably puts forward some great recommendations on
recordings of the Second Viennese School. I also think we've decided it's
a waste of time having these tedious arguments with people saying nasty
things about Schoenberg and other friends who write such wonderful music.
So let's ignore those killjoys and just enjoy this great music!
>Berg: Violin Concerto, Szeryng on DG
A good choice. Not as overwhelming as the Krasner/Webern but in reasonable
stereo. The best thing is that it comes coupled with the Schoenberg Violin
Concerto - another favorite of mine. I thought hard about recommending
this disc but decided against it because the coupled Brendel/Kubelik
performance of the Piano Concerto is not quite satisfying.
>Berg: Lulu, Boulez on DG
We agree on that one!
>Schoenberg: Choral music, Huber on Arte Nova
Haven't heard it, but the Boulez 'Jakobsleiter' is awe-inspiring.
>Schoenberg: Chamber Symphonies, Piano Concerto
>(Brendel), Gielen on Philips
Haven't heard this one either. I like the Orpheus ChO version of the
Chamber Symphonies. The best performance on record of the First Chamber
Symphony is still a breathtaking mono tour de force by Scherchen. If you
also get a chance to hear Webern's scaled down arrangement of the first
Symphony - grab it, because it almost sounds better than the original!
>Schoenberg: String Quartets, LaSalle on DG
No qualms about this one either!
>Schoenberg: Gurrelieder, Sinopoli on Teldec
Pretty good, but my personal favorite is the recording by Kegel and
the Dresden PO (Berlin Classics). The other alternative is the midprice
release of Gurrelieder with Chailly on a single CD from Decca Japan as the
transfer sounds stunning and it's cheaper to order it via the internet via
HMV Japan (you can order in English) than otherwise acquiring the somewhat
dated original transfer spread out over two disc at fullprice. The
downside is that you don't get an English translations of the vocal text -
but hopefully you'll read German anyway.
>Schoenberg: Various orchestral and vocal works,
>Dohnanyi and Mehta on London
>Webern: Orchestral works, Dohnanyi on London
What I've heard of Dohnanyi has been very promising.
>Webern: Orchestral, choral, and vocal works, Boulez on
>DG (at least two volumes, or you could just bite the bullet
>and get Boulez's complete set).
If you buy it please get the complete boxed set because the transfers in
the set are incomparably better sounding than the original releases.
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:24:31 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
William Copper wrote:
>As a first and wonderful Webern piece, I would recommend Das Augenlicht
Interesting choice, and not a bad one either. I've always recommended
the 6 Stuecke Opus 6 as the place to start, but I'm always open to other
suggestions.
>Morton Feldman once tried to make a case that, as beautiful as his music
>is, Webern should be dropped from history because of his residence in and
>complicity or anyway complacency with nazi Germany.
In just the same way that the Nazis tried to drop Webern from history by
banning his music as "Entartete Kunst". Initially Webern did hold some
sympathy for the new German nationalism but this quickly gave way to
disillusionment.
>As an example that the three are not equally appreciated by all, I don't
>personally care for anything by Schoenberg, though I tried very hard to
>like the String Trio and Pierrot Lunaire.
Although it achieved remarkable popular success in it's time, oddly
'Pierrot' is the worst possible place to begin with Schoenberg. I love
both of these works, but wouldn't recommend either of them as a place to
start. Pierrot was one of the toughest nuts in the Schoenbergian canon for
me to crack. Once I did come to understand it - WOW!!! What an explosion
of pure unbridled fantasy. Instead of diving into the deep end I would
strongly recommend giving the Second Quartet a crack. Although not
dodecaphonic, it has such a feeling of ecstatic rapture, it helps to remind
us that the movement to go beyond tonality was - whether for Scriabin or
for Schoenberg - a spiritual and mystical journey of transcendence, and not
some intellectual construct as some used to claim. I have some sympathy
with Adorno's claim that this is Schoenberg's greatest work. That feeling
for the ecstatic-transcendental is something that Schoenberg never lost.
>And Berg, for me, is a lesser composer with some pretty good pieces (the
>Violin Concerto, for example, and some of Lulu and Wozzeck). I imagine
>other readers have completely different opinions!
Berg is the composer I liked first, but now like the least of the three
composers. He is still the place to start if you want to understand these
composers. Having said that, he only suffers by comparison to the others.
He is still an awesome composer in his own right. If you were to compare
the Second Viennese School to Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven then, at least
in my mind, Berg is thus the equivalent of Mozart. Passionate disagreement
is welcome - and strongly encouraged!!!
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:28:55 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Leslie Kinton ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Isn't there some law which says, in effect, that 99% of modern music is
>not very good because 99% of *all* music (or plays, or novels, or poetry,
>or painting, etc. etc.) is not very good?
Sturgeon's Law (usually misquoted):
90% of everything is crud.
http://glinda.lrsm.upenn.edu/~weeks/misc/slaw.html
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 03:44:24 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz replies to Mats Norrman replying to Margaret Mikulska:
>>Why don't you go to the faculty of mathematics at your university? There
>>you find lots of potential music by Boulez (though these one is in the
>>faculty where it should be).
>
>As someone who has studied both music and mathematics, I don't really
>understand why difficult music is labeled mathematical, unless most people
>find mathematics as difficult as the music.
Mats can speak for himself of course, but I would say that the tonality was
based upon quints which combined set the pure octaves, which in their turn
is the pure clear harmony the human ear percieve. This happened in Greece,
but also in India (based only on pure intervals), China, and Indonesia. No
of these cultures were of course 20th century West alike. The 12-Tone row
is actually a mathematical formula, which is not based on pure intervals
as the ear percieve them, but upon a system - call it the counting side of
mathematics, which Charlie Dozen was so skilled at - outside the measure of
audial percievance of ear.
You can wring your hands or ring your bells which you prefer, but you
fall flat as long as Boulez is the example, as he was the greatest rave for
constructing mathematical music. He explains it himself in his essays.
Brahms is now not Boulez, but if you again count how most listeners - I
count thereto also his admirers - describe his music; well how goes that
saying that Wagner's music came from his balls, Brahms' from his brain and
Brueckner's from God...
"Ach hvad haver Fanden icke att bestille?"
Didrik Schiele
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:41:08 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Dennis Fodor summed it up concisely when he wrote:
>
>>It's there that they play to the notion that the more cacophonous the
>>sound, the more astringent the effect, the nobler, perforce, the effort.
>>An effort it surely is, but appreciation of music it is not.
But then what was it Dennis recently called Mahler 5?:-)
>You implied that you like that effect. Fine, you're free to listen to it
>as much as you like. I and others who condemn atonality do so based on the
>fact that it is designed to create such cacophony (an accurate and brief
>reason), which is why it is entirely reasonable to avoid it.
If you don't like it, sure. But then it's always reasonable to avoid
things you don't like. I don't care for opera and so I tend to avoid it.
But I don't go telling everybody how "awful" it is.
And you and Dennis are both imputing motives to "atonal" composers and
then castigating for those motives: "designed to create such cacophony"
is hardly neutral language, yet can you honestly quote a single composer
actually saying this?
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 05:30:12 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Dave Harman writes:
>Nor should an encounter with 20th century atonal music do that either.
>There certainly is a lot of fine tonal music composed in the same time
>period. In B's time, you had Spohr and Hummell to turn to if you didn't
>like B
Interesting that you should suggest Hummel. He was a classicist, but in
some cases he is more "modernist" than Beethoven ever was. And though a
more quirky musical personality, Hummel was danmed powerful! I am sure he
would rank the like of Haydn had he just composed symphonies, a really good
violinconcerto, and scored his pianoconcertos for larger orchestras.
Everything I have heard by Herr Nepomuk makes my heart go pit-a-pat.
Didrik Schiele
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 06:03:16 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Leslie Kinton <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Isn't there some law which says, in effect, that 99% of modern music is
>not very good because 99% of *all* music (or plays, or novels, or poetry,
>or painting, etc. etc.) is not very good?
Very funny. But if the same number applies, why do classical (modernist
or not) composers still always insist on calling their music "ART Music"?
It almost sounds as if they had high ambitions....
Didrik Schiele
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 05:59:19 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz:
>Let me just interject here. The only way I can tell if someone
>understands an atonal score is if they say something meaningful about
>it, besides whether they like it or not. Most people who rave against
>atonality don't say anything that shows that they actually understand what
>they've heard.
Yes. Because most of people who rave against atonality are still in the
belief that art is about beauty, and nothing else. There are 12-tone
pieces that I enjoy, but I have little interest in sitting at a concert
counting for every bar that passes "NOW came the eleveth note, is next the
twelweth on the row?". It is exciting first time, maybe next time or third
time if one is in patient mode, but no more. And I don't claim to
"understand" any 12-tone piece. I don't claim to "understand" any piece of
music at all. What does it mean, to "understand" an artwork? Is it to
figure out what the (if musical) composer thought when he composed it? What
he felt? If he ate asparagus or chopped liver for breakfast? Is it to be
able to tell; here is that harmony? Or; here Mahler modualtes to
F-flat-major? Is that to "understand" a piece of music? If so, the first
two or three question we will never find an answer on, and if the latter I
am sure Ilmari Krohn's studies understand Bruckners symphonies 1000 times
better then I ever will.
What does it mean, "understand the music"?
Didrik Schiele
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 05:23:15 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Margaret Mikulska writes (with grace):
>But somehow it happens that most neotonal works I heard sound reused and
>recycled to me, as if tired of their own musical language.
OK. You don't like it. Therefore to hell with it. Don't worry. In times
many things have come to hell for this good "garbage"-argument
>Their composers seem to reach for musical devices that have become cliches
>a long time ago. I want something fresh and new, a new kind of musical
>beauty, and I find it in, among others, Carter and Boulez.
True Boulez music is not very much similar to much else, and it IS far
from Haydn. Boulez is probably the only artist so far who has found
an authorized expression for quantum mechanics, what Boulez studied at
University of Paris before he became a fulltime musician. Haydn, In his
"Die Schoepfung", has the BigBang itself (thats the swirl it starts with),
and the whole Bible and the Flora and the Fauna and everything. However
Haydn left out quantum mechanics from his universe. I wonder why? One good
reason might be that few in that time dabbled with quantum mechanics.
Had haydn studied quantum mechanics at the Esterhazy University I wonder
whether he had included a limp of it somehow. Possibly he had if he had
found a discreet way of doing so. I however cannot imagine that Haydn had
set the particle physics as "goal" for his compositional work. The reasons
to that are several. One is that Haydn probably knew that few people are
actually interested in quantum mechanics, and at least not when they go to
Count Esterhazy's Sunday Concert. But, he also left it out because he was
the man the intellectuals at the universities should honour. Haydn, with
his clear and wellshaped forms honoured them, as did the Victorians of the
next century with their way of organizing stuff in their artworks, as well
as in their factories and universities. Had the history in West since
Paracelsus - or go longer back actually, but his name is so fun to hear -
not been full of people who - on the artistic arena and elleswhere -
admired the tradition, honoured it, hailed it, nurtured it, there had been
not discovery of quantum mechanics, I can tell you. These intellectuals
sit today on high chairs and believe that they promote the scientific trust
with torturing their ears with Boulez quantas of completely unpredictable
soundimages. The tragic thing is just that these people don't understand
that Boulez is not their man. Boulez was no man who wurmed for the
traditions. He was a rebel against it. The contenta is that Boulez and
fellows are making music for a "closed society". A clique of snobs who
will nurture theirselves, and in nothing contribute to something "new
and beautiful". I must here recommend you to read that what I say can
be outread from Boulez own writing, mainly them at the time for his
experimental "Structures" and similar, though he of course choose to
formulate it in another way to make people saction his own closed society
in a belief he is rebelling for them. But he is not. He is composing for
himself and his clique of friends. I think they are sorry to say: Idiots,
but I willingly admit that should it come to Intelligence Quote, Boulez
would greatly outnumber me.
To tie back to what Margaret said about beauty. The standard argument from
this group to those who have to few grey cells to understand the importance
of making music that illustrate quantum mechanics is:
"Now we are fishing in this ocean (=tonal, traditionalist ocean). Here
our fishemen find beautiful pearls. But we are only fishing in this ocean,
and perhaps there are even more beautiful pearls to find in other oceans.
If nobody (=no composers) make exploring journeys, like Cristoforo Colombo
to other oceans, we have no chance to find the pearls that can be hidden
there. Of course, not all exploring seafarers (=experimental composers)
will find pearls, many boats will end as shipwreck and we will have nothing
out of them. But PERHAPS somebody one day find new pearls, and if we don't
send out expeditions to other seas we have no chance ever to find any other
pearls then those we already know what they look like".
I think this is a very smart argument, but I still don't agree with it.
The first reason is that although I agree all artists may search their own
way, express their own voice in their work, I think that it must be - must
be - valid to use not anothers style, as the result would be pastische, but
anothers IDIOM. I note with horror that there is an unwritten law at many
musical educations not to let composerstudents who compose in a traditional
idiom to win their spurs. Thats danger first because all continiousity in
a culture builds upon nurturing traditions (what doesn't mean traditions
can't change), and imagine if no artists was connected to oneohter;
practically the situation is in the words utter sence unoverwiewable.
Thereto; if universities don't allow a student to compose in the classicist
idiom, then they had had to sink Beethoven and Franz Schubert too!!!
And, second, as Tchaykowsky pointed out, the tools we have in the
traditional music, the notewriting, the tonalities, the "old" system, is
remarkably rich. The more I listen to music - new and old - the more
convinced I be that this is a "Wunderhorn" for art. Everything can be
expressed with and within it, at least so much that it is uncountable and
moving within this system has a musicloving human being busy well hundred
lives throughout. I don't see it is urgent necessary to extend the
argument to be able to express new things. But I admit possibly to say
these things in a new way.
Another reason to why I don't agree with it, which ties to what I just
wrote above, is that when a so small percent of the population actually
listens actively to Classical Music, I think the Classical Community have
better things to do in increasing that number than wasting their ships,
sailors and resources on pearls they don't know if they even exist. Let
me conclude with that I think that it is in our cultures interest that a
larger number of people engage for and in the arts, and when the percentage
that listens to classical music is much higher, I can well change my
opinion on what to spend resources on.
>Or in Lutoslawski, whose works exhibit timbres and textures of
>breathtaking beauty.
The piece I like best by Lutoslawski is "Chatefleurs et Chantefables" which
is relativley traditionalist. His Aleatoric works fascinated me much at
first hearing, especially Chains. But on reapeated listening I just go
nervy upon that a conductor shall stand there as decide how much or little
of the music I shall be allowed to hear.:-)
>this is best heard in the sections that are commonly called "controlled
>aleatorism", although the composer preferred to call it "rhythmic
>counterpoint", which is of course a much more suitable name.
That is not obvoius to me. I think - and Chain II is the piece I refer
to - that "controlled aleatorism" is what it is. I cant see what it has
to do with "rythmic counterpoint" at all. Can the term be a mistranslated
"time-intervals"?
>....Boulez [...] ...another was Messiaen, and which goes back to
>Debussy and other French composers (Chabrier, Chausson, Duparc, Faure).
>So here we have a continuity of a certain tradition, a certain approach
>to music; that the musical language changes is inevitable:
I question if the line can be traced like this. What does those works
by Debussy who inspired Messiaen have for connection with anything by
Chabrier? Here I suspect we are taking longer and more aleatorian steps
then when we go from Haydn to Beethoven at least.
>how long can one repeat the same musical tricks???
Perhaps those who don't agree with me on the richness of the traditional
system are not listening carefully enough?:-)
>It has always puzzled me why people juxtapose "modern" and "non-modern
>(traditional?)" music. The continuity of the Western musical tradition
>is very strong;
Until the end of Sibelius career yes it is clear, and there is a detectable
continuity, but should you compare it to Arab art for example, you will
find that that tradition is much more homogenous than the Western. Like
the Arab culture has one language, one book, one national dish, one "social
code", the Western society has been a tree with many branches, as Europe
is split up on a large number of National States, which have had different
value of Power in different times. This has caused that there are 20
national dishes, 20 languages, 3 religions, and one year of schism there
were even three popes!!! Joke besides, think of folkmusic as element in
art music. In the Arab world everything was made Arabic already from the
beginning just because Mohammeds fieldmarschall Omar I did not listen to
Boulez! The art music that has influence the music in Iraq is the same as
the influences Maroccan orchestras have picked up. In Europe Verdi's "Il
Trovatore" would have had a lesser gypsy flash had Bela Bartok composed it.
All this has created great variety, National mainly, but there were also
more clearly detectable timeperiods (baroque, classicist, etc) then in
other cultures (all artforms counted here as almost only West notated its
music, what also contributes). This has also as result that West was more
receptive for intracultural influences. Compare with Arabia or India or
China if you want and you will find that no culture has flirted so much
with other cultures like West. Someone said the smell of Arab sweat rouses
the Caucausian women, and the smell of their blood their men. That can
say that this was on good and bad. The richness at the exotic Pascha or
Maharadja caused colonial expeditions from West. Still the blood was
feared, on bothy sides. Carmen is a bitch in exotic parfume, and Montezuma
is in the operas portrayed when he cries in the Spaniards chocolate, but
I still think that for the future it has something good to bring, and
Debussy, Mahler, Wagner, Messiaen and Beethoven also did. Therefore the
turkish percussion accompaignies "Alle Menschen werden Brueder".
>at no point can one say "here ends music and cacophony starts".
No. But there have been set up timelines for Classicism, Romanticism,
Impressionism etc too. Still Mozarts "Idomeneo" has romantic seed, and
Lachner composed classicist works at 1885. Where does Romanticism start?
And so on. All levels of genre overlap each other. Thats there nature.
>Well, some did say that in the past, at various times: the accompanied
>monody of the early 17th C was cacophony to some traditionalists used to
>the renaissance polyphony. Ars Nova was cacophony to some composers or
>theoreticians of Ars Antiqua. Of course, Beethoven was cacophony to some
>critics. Liszt and Wagner were similarly derided. What else is new?
I question this argument too. Many cases of those you list were
powerstruggles which were not rooted in the actual art itself. Write
to this emailaddress and ask for more information:
[log in to unmask]
Didrik Schiele
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 00:17:17 -0500
From: Leslie Kinton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>One of the musicians who performed for us told of being part of an
>ensemble that was playing an atonal work. Frustrated with its utter lack
>of musicality, he decided to put his time to what he determined to be a
>more productive use, and started doing finger exercises on his instrument.
>No one gave a clue of having even noticed. If he had done this in a Haydn
>piece, I guarantee someone would have.
If this is the level of professionalism Jocelyn's performers show, then
shame on her for bragging about it. Irrespective of one's opinion about
atonal music, this is appalling conduct; if it were one of my students, I
would roast them. The fact that this person is an alleged professional
makes it much worse.
Leslie Kinton
Piano Faculty, The Glenn Gould Professional School,
The Royal Conservatory of Music, Toronto.
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:18:05 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn replies to me:
>>Let me put it another way. Do I really want to fight traffic, endure
>>coughers, etc, etc. to be bored out of my skull by music whose course I
>>can predict? Now, the problem in this discussion is that Jocelyn, as is her
>>habit, painted with too broad a brush, and the rest of us have mistakenly
>>stuck to the rather wide boundaries she initially set.
>
>I find it ironic that you say I painted with too broad a brush immediately
>after complaining about music whose course you can predict.
Actually, *I* was being ironic, essentially giving back what was given to
me -- and, incidentally, not by Karl, but by some other poster whose name
I've forgotten.
>By that line of reasoning, one might conclude that you never listen to the
>same piece of music twice.
Hardly. In really great works (and in not so great ones), I find myself
constantly engaged and surprised by new emphases and by the fact that I'm
not the same person listening. You must think this way as well, if I judge
by the coals of fire you've tried to heap on my head. On the other hand,
there is indeed music whose course is too predictable for its own good,
which doesn't change in important ways from hearing to hearing. I could
name names if you want, but those names likely wouldn't be your names. I'm
sure you could do the same.
>>Let me assure everyone that I don't like a piece because it's atonal,
>>any more than I hate a piece because it's tonal. There are plenty of bad
>>pieces written either way, as well as some good ones. I'm not a fan of
>>Schoenberg's Moses und Aron, although I love other works by him, some of
>>which are dodecaphonic, some not. I don't happen to like the Corigliano
>>music I've heard so far, but I'm a great fan of Benjamin Lees. What seems
>>absolutely ridiculous to me is the a priori judgment people insist on
>>making on the basis of style.
>
>That's a bit like me saying that I don't like being bludgeoned with a
>hammer, and you criticizing me for condemning being bludgeoned by any
>hammer just because I haven't been bludgeoned by all hammers.
No, it's not. Because you haven't been come close to getting bludgeoned by
a hammer even once. Believe me, you'd know the difference. Besides, such
a simple stimulus-response isn't meaningfully comparable to the stimulus of
a work of art. Or is it? It's simply a metaphor which indicates the level
of your displeasure. Believe me, I get that you dislike probably 99% or
higher of all the dodecaphony you've heard (I remember that you admitted
you liked a couple of pieces in this style).
>You implied that you like that effect. Fine, you're free to listen to it
>as much as you like. I and others who condemn atonality do so based on the
>fact that it is designed to create such cacophony (an accurate and brief
>reason),
Actually, it's an accurate description of your reaction, but not
necessarily of the music. "Cacophony" is like "dissonance" -- it's
primarily subjectively and secondarily culturally determined.
So in almost all of your posts on this subject, the only thing you seem to
understand about the music is that you dislike it, because that's really all
you talk about. Fine. We all have our likes and dislikes. Far be it from
me to even attempt to change a mind so firmly set (I WON'T eat spinach, I
WON'T). However, the fault, dear Brutus, lies not necessarily in the music.
As I keep saying, I WON'T like bel canto opera. Is that my fault,
Bellini's, or perhaps neither?
Let me add that in the Sixties and Seventies I made a few enemies because
I resented the hegemony over concert life and critical discussion of
dodecaphony as the Only Valid Modern Music. Now, the pendulum seems to
have swung more toward the previous balance (almost no performances, except
by specialist groups), and who complains? The tonality vs. atonality
argument is tired, irrelevant, and ultimately flawed on both sides, and I
wish both sides would give it a rest.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:24:11 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>
>>Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>>
>>>And by the way, are you really suggesting that Boulez and Carter are not
>>>continuing classical standards. If so, could you tell me what standards
>>>they are not continuing?
>>
>>They abandon melody and harmony. One need go no further.
>
>How so? There is a line and the harmony is as controlled as it is in
>Bach.
A controlled line, yes, but there is little or nothing that can be mistaken
for melody or harmony, but, rather, disdain for them.
>>>As a composer, I find it ridiculous that just because a piece of music
>>>gives someone a headache, they would be reluctant to program it. Does
>>>that mean that they think it will give everyone a headache, or that I wrote
>>>in the hope that people would get a headache, or that music that gives a
>>>headache should not be performed?
>>
>>All of the above, more or less.
>
>Would I be correct to assume that for you, human expression need only be
>limited to what a majority find pleasurable?
You would not only be greatly incorrect, but bordering on the ridiculous
(and I won't even say which side of the border). This thread's facet
began when someone praised some atonalists, and I commented that composers
of that ilk have done a great deal to drive many listeners away from
relatively modern works, justifiably or not. Whether one likes atonality
or not, my initial observation stands.
>>Yes, I did refer to atonality as cacophony, because it is just that. (This
>>post notwithstanding, I prefer to be brief, and "cacophony" summed it up
>>rather concisely.) Moreover, it is so unabashedly and intentionally.
>
>Atonality=cacophony...it depends. If one defines cacophony as
>dissonance...
I certainly don't, nor can I rcall anyone doing so, so your apparent
attempt to create a straw man is futile. Dissonance was an indispensible
aspect of music long before Schoenberg. Very often, the most interesting
sounds are the most dissonant, but always with the right context. The lack
of a tonal center essentially equates to a lack of context.
>> One can go into detail about the nature of tone rows and so forth, but
>>the fact is that medium in which music exists is sound, not paper, and the
>>bottom line is atonality sounds awful.
>
>To you, but perhaps not to everyone.
Of course, but, then, I never said to everyone. But definitely not just to
me.
>>Listen to atonality as often as you want, I'll be the last to stop you,
>>but do not be surprised when many, many people reject it simply because
>>of the fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony that it is.
>
>I am not surprised when many people reject something because they find
>it to be fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony. I am saddened that
>the vocabulary might closing themselves off from content they may find
>meaningful.
If I hear some works that feature fingernails-across-the-chalkboard
cacophony and fail to hear something musically worthwhile, then listen
again to see if I may have missed something, and perhaps yet again, only
to find that beneath all the fingernails-across-the- chalkboard cacophony
was yet more fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony, not only have I
not closed myself off to it without giving it a shot, but you really have
no reason to be so sad. Perhaps some Mozart would cheer you up.
>I am also concerned when a subjective perspective is proffered as being
>objective.
Since I'm not aware of that happening here, you should find solace in
having one less source of sadness.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:24:48 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Jocelyn Wang replies to Karl Miller:
>
>>>And by the way, are you really suggesting that Boulez and Carter are not
>>>continuing classical standards. If so, could you tell me what standards
>>>they are not continuing?
>>
>>They abandon melody and harmony. One need go no further.
>
>Oh, I'm afraid one must. Following quote from Slonimsky's Lexicon of
>Musical Invective:
Critics wrote that stuff, so it must be true, eh? My quandry is which
utterly incorrect statement to refute first. (BTW, all your quotes
go a long way toward substantiating my statements in an earlier thread
regarding critics.) The transition of the 3rd to the 4th movement of
Beethoven's 5th does indeed have harmony, as well as an obvious driving
rhythm, and, in its context, takes us from the main theme (melody) of the
3rd movement to that of the 4th. I won't even bother with the other quotes
individually, as they are obviously false, in that each of the referred
works have strong melodic and harmonic elements. I can only speculate that
your implication is that, since these other folks were obviously incorrect
when they wrote what they did, I must also be incorrect. Sorry, you'll
have to do much better than that. The atonalists did indeed give up
harmony, as well as melody, and they did so by design, so there really
ought not be any dispute over this. You are free to like them, don't go
giving them attributes they don't have merely by broadening the definition
"harmony" to suit what you want it to mean, which seems to be any set of
simultaneous pitches in any context. Atonality, by its very nature,
abandons harmony, hence its lack of tonal center. If we cannot agree on
this, then we do not even agree on what we're talking about, which would
make this discussion even more futile. Ultimately, in threads like this,
since neither party is going to make a believer out of the other, the most
practical thing to do is to agree toi disagree.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:11:15 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>One of the musicians who performed for us told of being part of an
>ensemble that was playing an atonal work. Frustrated with its utter lack
>of musicality, he decided to put his time to what he determined to be a
>more productive use, and started doing finger exercises on his instrument.
>No one gave a clue of having even noticed. If he had done this in a Haydn
>piece, I guarantee someone would have.
It also displays an astounding lack of professionalism on the part of
that musician and were I the conductor of that ensemble I'd fire him on
the spot. Personally I don't believe this or any other of these little
"examples" of proof that atonal music is Bad. Interesting, on the
musiclassical list we had a similar debate with Mr. Barrows, the composer
whom Ms. Wang holds up as an example of what contemporary music should be.
He used exactly the same "examples," word for word.
Reminds me of a friend of mine who walked into a concert of modern tonal
composers and thought he was in an elevator.
>These are only a few examples. One can go into detail about the nature
>of tone rows and so forth, but the fact is that medium in which music
>exists is sound, not paper, and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful.
No it doesn't, it sounds interesting, rich, painful, joyous, complicated,
thought-provoking, beautiful, ugly, full, and wonderful. Gosh, this is
fun, presenting opinions as fact!
>Listen to atonality as often as you want, I'll be the last to stop you,
>but do not be surprised when many, many people reject it simply because
>of the fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony that it is.
Who's surprised? People have been rejecting new ideas in music for
centuries now. The real surprise is for the folks in Culver City, that
people actually enjoy atonal music sometimes! Surprise! People love it!
I know one fellow who came to classical music recently, and he adores
20th-century music, much prefers it over Mozart, whose music he doesn't
understand.
Dave Runnion
http://mp3.com/TRAMUNTANA --- improvised chamber music (WARNING-DISSONANCE!)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:07:36 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz Wrote:
>>But harmony is, among other things, a concern for the vertical
>>sonority of music.
I agree. I also think that melody could be thought of as the horizontal
(i.e. time) axis of music. By these definitions of melody and harmony,
both Boulez's and Carter's music have melody and harmony, although I hear
these aspects in their music regardless of the definitions.
Btw, I must confess my admiration for "atonal" music (I put it in quotes
because I think it is a somewhat arbitrary category, like "art with purple
paint"). I'd like to jump into this heated debate, and offer my two cents:
Looking back on 20th century music, I think it was a natural
progression from Romantic music. As with other major style transitions,
the progression consisted of some breakthroughs. The breakthroughs that
sparked the transition from Romantic to 20th century mostly had to do with
breaking through the bonds of "conventional" tonality. It is generally
thought that the first pieces of music to accomplish this were Wagner's
Tristan, and Debussy's "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faune". Certainly
this loosening of tonality was in the air, ready to be discovered and
applied by other composers as well.
As long as there has been music (or any other art form) there has been
innovation. The liberation from conventional harmony that was taking place
around the turn of the last century provided a rich breeding ground for new
approaches to music. I think the composers from around this time who
provided valuable innovations with promising futures were Debussy,
Stravinsky, and Schoenberg.
Debussy managed to scrap conventional tonality while still making music that
could sometimes even sound "pretty". I think his preludes are a great
example of how he completely broke free from the I-IV-V-I type of harmonic
progressions which were the staple of music from Baroque to Romanic.
Schoenberg chose a different substitute for conventional tonality which
definitely didn't sound pretty -- of course music shouldn't necessarily be
judged by how pretty it sounds.
In Stravinsky's music, conventional tonality starts to become irrelevant
as early as "Fireworks" (op. 3 I think), and becomes almost completely
irrelevant in "The Rite of Spring", in which he uses some aspects of
tonality (e.g. a lot of it is in the key of C major), but relegated to
his unique system. I think in this piece he started to use his clusters,
a style which become quite prevalent in subsequent works, especially in
his neo-classical works. What I find interesting about these clusters is
that they're often notes from a specific key (e.g. C major, as in the Rite
of Spring), so they sound tonal in a way. I think the effect they have is
conveying two or more tonal chords (e.g. I and V chord) at the same time.
To me, the painting analog from this time can be found in Picasso's
distorted faces, with a nose pointing one way and the eyes and mouth
pointing the other way. These faces are facing two directions at once,
just as Stravinsky's clusters are simultaneously conveying two instances
of time in the I-IV-V-I chordal progression.
Anyway, these are some of my thoughts. Thanks for reading this far:-)
Mike
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:43:19 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>I and others who condemn atonality do so based on the fact that it is
>designed to create such cacophony(an accurate and brief reason), which
>is why it is entirely reasonable to avoid it.
I agree that it is reasonable to avoid a genre of music which is not
appreciated. However, to condemn the genre is mighty extreme and not
reasonable. Why condemn what you don't like when you can simply stay away
from it? I'll stick with condemning murder, assault, and treason. Atonal
composition has no evil characteristics; it's only music.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:21:01 +0000
From: Stephen Mulraney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz wrote:
>>Let me assure everyone that I don't like a piece because it's atonal,
>>any more than I hate a piece because it's tonal. There are plenty of bad
>>pieces written either way, as well as some good ones. I'm not a fan of
>>Schoenberg's Moses und Aron, although I love other works by him, some of
>>which are dodecaphonic, some not. I don't happen to like the Corigliano
>>music I've heard so far, but I'm a great fan of Benjamin Lees. What seems
>>absolutely ridiculous to me is the a priori judgment people insist on
>>making on the basis of style.
Jocelyn Wang responded:
>That's a bit like me saying that I don't like being bludgeoned with a
>hammer, and you criticizing me for condemning being bludgeoned by any
>hammer just because I haven't been bludgeoned by all hammers.
Hmmm... how so? It's like you saying that you don't like being bludgeoned
with a hammer (there's no accounting for taste...), and you being
criticised for declaring that being bludgeoned by hammers is intrinsically,
objectively an unpleasant thing, simply because you happened not to enjoy
it.
But you picked an analogy with being bludgeoned by hammers, which it
seems you presume is something you think most people would not enjoy. I
think this is the problem - while we really need not argue about the merits
of hammer-bashing, but about 'atonal' music, which you suggest to be a
parallel situation, there is a case to be made - some people actually seem
to like it. This does not mean you should like it, nor does it mean that
those who like it are wrong and should follow your lead.
Your opinion is not a data point to be averaged over the whole
population's, yielding an 'objective opinion' or consensus. Your opinions
are sovereign, and don't need to bow and scrape to mine, nor mine to yours.
In particular if some judgement of yours, e.g. concerning the value of
atonal music, is believed by you to have some universal application beyond
the volume of your skull, then you are effectively allowing other peoples'
opinion on this matter to become a red rag.
If I (hypothetically) tell someone 'I love Webern's concerto because
of the...' and am cut off by the response 'But it's atonal! Noise!', my
immediate thought is 'I don't need this'. You can't discuss opinion with
someone who believes their opinions are (physical, logical, historical,
psychological, ...) Truth.
One could argue that a world full of people aware of their opinions as
opinions would be unremittingly dull and humiliating, a world where all
you can have to show for your wonderful brain is a worthless currency of
ideas that no-one accepts. But this is simply using hyperbolic language
to spin the issue. The whole point would be that ideas would be valuable
and worthy of exchange. This is not some utopic vision, but seems to me
to be more or less what occurs, with the right people. You could even
suggest that it assists one's self-respect to have valued opinions, even
though they be only opinions. The other road (also encountered in reality)
seems less desirable: an escape from anonymity only though inflation of
one's opinions to 'physical fact' (like the smashing of hammers) or
'physiological necessity' (e.g. alleged identification of music with tonal
music) or 'artistic destiny' (e.g. Schoenberg's inflated opinion of the
value of his work, which however, stands or falls on its own despite him).
>(I realize the idea of so many hammers bludgeoning me might be appealing
>to some offended by my views on atonality, but I think I'll pass.)
I don't think your views on atonality are offensive, even if I don't hold
the same opinion. I don't stick to some dogma of the superiority of tonal
music. Wouldn't that be a liability to an enquiring mind? Although I am
unlikely to act on any belief that closes my mind to a large body of human
artistic endeavour, I would welcome elaboration on why perhaps I should.
It may not win me over - it's an ecology of opinions in here - but that
doesn't mean the process wouldn't interest me.
Besides how would bludgeoning you help win an argument? Would your idea
become less valid because you were hurt? In these discussion I try to aim
my attack on the idea, not the person. It's not a beauty contest.
yours at length,
Stephen Mulraney
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:49:24 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]:
>Yes, I did refer to atonality as cacophony, because it is just that.
>(This post notwithstanding, I prefer to be brief, and "cacophony" summed
>it up rather concisely.)
And so it does. It also sums up the truth of Jocelyn Wang's contention
that the great majority of audiences don't like cacophonous pieces. I'm a
concert goer and have been that for over half a century. With this behind
me, I have absolutely, but definitely, no doubt that insistently discordant
music makes listeners at live performances uncomfortable. They don't like
it, even though they generally sit on through it as a coerced concession to
the musical establishment that programmed it, the Obrigkeit of Musik.
Which is not to say that music which in stretches is discordant can't
redeem itself to the the median concert goer's ear. A richly imaginative,
and carefully knit piece of bizarre tonality, like Bartok's Concerto for
Orchestra, tends to pass muster--though here there's trouble with its
inordinate length. Some of Ligeti seems to be bearable, maybe because he's
fascinatingly imaginative, or because he handles color so well. But Boulez
or Stockhausen are quite predictably Nono. It'd be both mannerly and wise
to play their kind of music exclusively for audiences composed of
initiates, or at least acolytes--and to mercifully spare the mass of the
innocent.
From another corner of the list, Steve Schwartz, in the white trunks,
writes:
>I like Bartok, a tonal composer who's often not easy on the ears. Denis
>probably does as well. I like Ives. I like late Debussy. I also like
>Vaughan Williams (just about every piece he wrote).
As for Denis's liking of Bartok, please see above. He also likes some
Ives (New England Symphony, Washington's Birthday), et il aime Debussy.
But he feels he must say No, thanks, to Vaughn Williams, for although he's
soothingly tonal he's also a crashing bore. As to Schwartzo, Denis likes
him enormously and wishes him many happy decades of life in which to
indulge his peculiar taste in music--of which he writes so well that Denis
has actually tried out some of the stuff:....
<studiously studies study ceiling>
Denis Fodor
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 05:41:26 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Donald Satz burps up:
>Also, she likes to buttress her personal/subjective view by letting us
>know that many other folks feel the same way she does. What other folks
>like or don't like is not relevant to the individual's listening
>experience.
No it is not relevant to the individual's listening experience. But it
certainly is highly important for the individual marking his/hers place in
community. Try to sell some of your Monteverdi operas to members of Hells
Angels or what your local MC-Club is, see what happens.
Didrik Schiele
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:22:57 -0500
From: Ben Malkevitch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
I have posted to this list once before because I'm a 20-year-old
composition major. This leads me to generally keep my mouth shut
and listen/read unless I have information I am sure about to add the
discussion, am sure someone else is objectively wrong or subjectively way
off target, or feel I have opinions on the subject which have not yet been
offered. As I feel the last of three to be true in this case...
My goal in life is to further music, something which has given me and will
give me so much pleasure. (Pianist, composer, conductor, writer, teacher,
all of the above? Only time will tell.) But before enough about me...
It's my strong feeling that in order for classical music to have a
bright future, 20th-century and contemporary music must be championed and
promoted. Even if only 1% is good, how will that 1% achieve the renown
that it deserves if we throw the baby out with the bathwater by ignoring
all recent efforts? (No stigma in my mind on the word "effort" -
composition is tough work!)
So it pains me something fierce when I speak to well-educated people who
know frightfully little about classical music (like my fellow students at
Princeton) about keeping an open mind and they ask me "yeah, but is it
tonal?" As Berg and Steve Schwartz said, these a priori dismissals are
ridiculous. A piece which all the experts agree is tonal may repulse me
on all levels while an atonal work may strike me as neat and/or moving.
Why do such labels persist, then, even within this group? Jocelyn takes
her argument a bit too far but she is right to the extent that composers
have gone "too far" in the last 50 years in trying to make new sounds. By
"too far," I mean to a point at which relatively few people are equipped to
understand them. Sure, you can always find people who will just happen to
like something, but there are good reasons that people flock to Beethoven
and not Birtwistle (or even Britten): (listed from least to most
important)
1) Birtwistle is rarely mentioned in the same breath as Beethoven (or even
Britten) in sales. Let's face it: people go with names they know and
names sell. So on the store shelves, on the airwaves, in the concert
halls, Beethoven is firmly ensconced while Birtwistle is not.
2) In turn, Birtwistle (and I'm making a point, even if Birtwistle a
bad alliterative example) is not a known name because of the prejudice of
education. I had a professor this past term for a course on the Classical
period who admitted to me that he tended to stick to Brahms and Beethoven
because, in the sea of stuff out there right now, he knew he could count on
them. Yes, and because he had been taught to venerate them and never for
a moment consider that latter-day B's might as great.
3) People have increasingly lazy ears. These are mean things to say and
over-generalizations, yet at least somewhat true. People used to go to
"hear" concerts, now they want to "see" them. I'm willing to bet that more
people would give up their hearing if they had to choose between that and
sight. People's imaginations are much more visual in nature. They think
visually. And while children love doodling with crayons, many fewer doodle
on the keys and are quickly informed that their banging experiments are not
music and are taught to play Fur Elise. In short, they'll have much more
of a chance taking to Pollock than to Carter.
These thoughts spew forth from my mind half-incubated and may not make
sense to everyone. (I'll clarify if needed.) But I hope some of you will
at least appreciate my point: classical music has enough challenges to
face that fighting over labels is counter-productive.
(and now I'll have to think about the "Classical" vs. "Modern" music thread.
YIKES!)
Thanks for reading,
Ben Malkevitch
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:24:32 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Jocelyn Wang writes:
>
>>Stockhausen's "Helicopter" Quartet, which calls for the members of a
>>string quartet to be suspended in four separate helicopters... well,
>>it speaks for itself.
>
>No, it does not speak for itself. Being suspended with a stringed
>instrument in a helicopter tells us little about the sounds that will be
>heard in a recording. Beyond that, this work will say different things
>to different individuals. I'm sure this work does not say the same things
>to Jocelyn as it says to me.
Every work, good or bad, ultimately speaks for itself. But I do wonder
how one tunes a helicopter. Aviation courses at Julliard are surely just
around the corner.
>>...and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful.
>
>There is no automatic connection between atonality and 'awful' or any
>other descriptive word of that ilk.
For many (I daresay most), there is.
>Cutting through the subjective response of the listener, atonality simply
>refers to music which is organized without reference to a tonal center.
Yes, which has alienated many listeners to the point of not even giving
modern composers a chance, much to the frustration of more than one modern
composer whose acquaintance I've made. For example, one concert we gave
a couple of years ago featured two works by living composers, followed by
Mozart. Just before the concert began, I was near the entrance when I
overheard someone saying he was going to leave, then return for the Mozart
because he didn't like 20th-century works. I told him that the works were
quite melodic and tonal, and written by composers whose views on atonality
were probably similar to his, but he considered his experience with modern
works so utterly unpleasant that he still didn't give them a chance. Was
he being closed-minded? Absolutely, for he judged the works not by their
content, but by when they were written. Still, while I disagree with the
reason he left, I do understand it, and, trust me, it wasn't Ravel or
Sibelius that led him to that point.
>That Jocelyn finds this music awful has been clearly stated by her time
>and time again; the repetitive comments are overstaying their welcome.
Ah, thank you for clarifying that you are now the official spokesman
for everyone on the list. Henceforth, I shall have to consult you on
everything I post to make sure it meets with your approval. Or could it
be that you were merely stating a "personal/subjective view?" Just as no
one forces me to listen to atonality, no one wrestles your finger away from
the delete key whenever you come across one of my unwelcome posts.
>Also, she likes to buttress her personal/subjective view by letting us
>know that many other folks feel the same way she does.
Many listeners *have* been driven away from modern music because of
atonality. That is not merely a subjective view, it is a fact. Those who
attend our concerts have often spoken to me personally about what they have
heard, and what they would like to hear. It's no secret that we program a
lot of modern works, but not a single one has ever requested atonality,
although many have praised the fact that we do present modern works that
they "can actually enjoy." I have buttressed my views by more than saying
that many folks agree, but perhaps you wisely deleted those posts without
having read them.
>What other folks like or don't like is not relevant to the individual's
>listening experience.
Finally, something on which we agree.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:42:05 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>These are only a few examples. One can go into detail about the nature of
>tone rows and so forth, but the fact is that medium in which music exists
>is sound, not paper, and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful. Listen
>to atonality as often as you want, I'll be the last to stop you, but do
>not be surprised when many, many people reject it simply because of the
>fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony that it is.
It may sound awful to you, but you still refuse to comment on the fact
that many, many people embrace various atonal works enthusiastically simply
because they sound beautiful to them. That's exactly the bottom line for
them (actually, us): we admire works which are beautiful or masterfully
constructed or whatever else we find in this music. You still didn't tell
us whether you think we are liars or brainwashed idiots.
BTW: What does the "nature of tone rows" have to do with the music that
Boulez wrote after mid-1950s? Or, for that matter, with the music of the
majority of "atonal" composers?
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:03:25 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz wrote:
>I'm perfectly willing to concede that Carter and Boulez do not use
>traditional harmony, and probably don't even consciously think that way.
>But harmony is, among other things, a concern for the vertical sonority of
>music. This neither composer has given up.
And melody is an organized sequence of pitches and durations, something
that exists in almost all works by both composers. ("Almost" because by
definition, it can't apply to unpitched percussion.)
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:35:46 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang in response to my comments:
>I'm not about to label anyone else on this list as ignorant, for, no matter
>how vehemently we may disagree, they usually display an impressive amount
>of factual knowledge.
Factual knowledge has very little to do with this. I called you an
"ignorant" simply because your expression "atonal plague" doesn't leave
room for any difference between Schoenberg and Stockhausen. That's
serious. It's just like saying that Pollock and Klee are exactly the same.
Such statement would indicate that you've never watched any of their works
for more than 30 seconds.
>I was pondering whether to respond to this on- or off-list, for what you
>have written is more of a personal attack on me than on my position, which
>is an indication of the weakness of *your* position, not mine.
I have no "position" about this. Nobody has. This is not a matter of
personal taste or subjective impressions. "Atonal music" contains hundreds
of different styles, techniques and aesthetical principles. This is as
true as the age of my Granny. I'm not attacking your preferences: you
may dislike all of those styles, techniques, whatever. I just remark that
you can't say that they're all equal, simply because there is an immense
objective ground to sustain the opposite. Whether you know that ground or
not...well, that's another story.
>When it starts getting personal like this, I'm usually more
>inclined either to respond off-list, or not at all. However..
Again: we're not talking here of personal tastes. Your ignorance on the
subject of atonal music is as large, real and objective as the hole that I
have now in my t-shirt. I'm not attacking you personally, I'm just warning
you: "ma'am, you have a big hole in your shirt". You may take the warning
or not.
>You are in a very poor spot to declare me ignorant, regardless of how
>much you disagree. Within my "little four wall world," I have spent
>many hours working for a small chamber music series that included in its
>very first concert about five years ago works by not one but two living
>composers, and has continued to present works by living composers at a rate
>that, performance for performance, I'll match with any other organization.
Beautiful "curriculum vitae". I'll read it when I have time enough.
However, let me tell you, with all respect, that I have legitimate reasons
to doubt of the seriousness of a contemporary musical institution ruled by
a person who can't tell who is who between Schoenberg and Kagel.
>The four walls of my little world have often been those of the facility
>where our concerts are held. So much for my musical isolationism...
Oh, sorry that you can't see how ironically true is your assertion...
>Some years ago, composer Morris Cotel, who teaches at Peabody Conservatory,
>received an honorable mention in a Paris musical competition for a piece he
>submitted. It turned out to be a transcription of the sounds his cat made
>walking across a keyboard.
This just proves something that everybody knows: the work is the less
interesting part of some artists. Many competition judges still intends
it so, unfortunately.
>Stockhausen's "Helicopter" Quartet, which calls for the members of a string
>quartet to be suspended in four separate helicopters... well, it speaks
>for itself.
Speaks bad, I guess. But I don't know where are we going with this.
>These are only a few examples. One can go into detail about the nature of
>tone rows and so forth, but the fact is that medium in which music exists
>is sound, not paper, and the bottom line is atonality sounds awful.
This kind of writing proves that you have never heard more than 2 or 3
atonal works for about 20 minutes in your whole life. However, this fact
didn't save you of preaching against the "atonal plague" that eats us
"since 75 years". Do you begin to see the solid, ample ground where lies
my accusation to you?.
>Listen to atonality as often as you want, I'll be the last to stop you,
>but do not be surprised when many, many people reject it simply because
>of the fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony that it is.
I'll be less surprised when you tell me the music of which artist, age or
place are you talking of... Take your time, I'll be waiting.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:37:25 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele wrote:
>I note with horror that there is an unwritten law at many musical
>educations not to let composerstudents who compose in a traditional
>idiom to win their spurs.
I've heard this a lot from the Atonality-is-an-evil-conspiracy crowd.
The images of fresh-faced young composers seeing their works thrown in
the trash by longhair dissonant teachers for the crime of having written
a c-major arpeggio. Is this really true? Any conservatory teachers out
there that can corroborate this charge? Because it certainly wasn't the
case when I was at Manhattan School. Nor when I studied briefly at City
College, where David del Tredici, a tonalist and a patriot if ever there
was one.
The "Tonalist" movement is nothing new in music. Lots of composers write
in this style. Surely some of them teach in music schools? Sometime I
would like to see proof that a majority (or it wouldn't be a law) of
composition students, in conservatories throughout the world, are NOT
ALLOWED to write in a tonal medium. Personally I think it's about as
credible as the grassy knoll.
>I think the Classical Community have better things to do in increasing
>that number than wasting their ships, sailors and resources on pearls
>they don't know if they even exist.
First of all, how does one find a pearl without sinking blind into the
depths, holding your breath, eyes popping, till you find something truly
new and beautiful? And secondly, since when is it the responsibility of the
artist to convince more people to wear pearl necklaces? That's the job of
the retailers and jewelers, not the oyster.
>>critics. Liszt and Wagner were similarly derided. What else is new?
>
>I question this argument too. Many cases of those you list were
>powerstruggles which were not rooted in the actual art itself.
And this argument I question. The fact is that new music has always been
rejected by people and it keeps going forward and evolving nevertheless.
Nothing new under the sun.
Dave Runnion
http://mp3.com/tramuntana
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:10:57 +0000
From: Christopher Webber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>The tonality vs. atonality argument is tired, irrelevant, and ultimately
>flawed on both sides, and I wish both sides would give it a rest.
Ah, sanity at last! It is irrelevant, when both 'sides' are fighting
for the same old army of the romantic movement. Only the colours are
different.
It's maybe hard for us (and the composers) in the thick of the fray to
see this, but in an important sense it's the whole romantic revolt from
Beethoven through Brahms to Schoenberg, Boulez and Carter that's the blip,
not just its late etiolation.
Nationalists, individualists, atonalists, neo-tonalists ... the
marvellous revolt is playing itself out, much though that pains all of
us who have been formed by its last oozings. We seem to be heading full
circle towards internationalism, that consensus of musical language which
another correspondent has noted in Eastern traditions, and which broadly
applied to the West at least before Mozart.
This is happening for social as much as musical reasons (of course the
two are indivisible, which is why criticism of "modern music" is only
interesting as an expression of frustration with modern society). Global
communications, multinationalism - for as long as they function - look set
fair to knock the jaded romantic tradition on the head at last.
In any case, judging by my Webern experience over Christmas, listening
to this exquisitely romantic music - or trying to - isn't really an option
through today's urban aural pollution. I'm sure the Takacs Quartet were
wonderful, but frankly with the cacophony (no arguments please) of police
sirens, car doors, dogs and car radios they had to contend with at my end,
neither they nor Anton von W. ever stood a chance. Back to Philip Glass,
I think .... at least I can hear it.
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.nashwan.demon.co.uk/zarzuela.htm
"ZARZUELA!"
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:59:42 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele on Hummel:
>Everything I have heard by Herr Nepomuk makes my heart go pit-a-pat.
I recently acquired his Mass in D and Te Deum on Hungaroton. Strongly
influenced by Haydn, but beautiful, rich works. I'm now keen to hear the
other masses.
I was interested to note that Hummel was born in Bratislava, once also
known as Pressburg. Musica Bona's website has Mahler as a Czech composer
because he was born there. By this logic, should we now consider Hummel
to be a Slovakian composer?
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:09:03 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>The atonalists did indeed give up harmony, as well as melody, and they
>did so by design, so there really ought not be any dispute over this.
>You are free to like them, don't go giving them attributes they don't have
>merely by broadening the definition "harmony" to suit what you want it to
>mean, which seems to be any set of simultaneous pitches in any context.
>Atonality, by its very nature, abandons harmony, hence its lack of tonal
>center.
These are some of the most extremist statements I have ever heard coming
from Jocelyn so far. Composer's like Schoenberg and Berg come up with
some absolutely drop-dead gorgeous melodies, especially in their later
dodecaphonic works. As for the notion that you need a firm tonal center to
have harmony, that reminds me too much of the attempts to dismiss Wagner's
compositions as non-music because you cannot explain them in Classical
tonal terms either. When Copland was asked by Bernstein why he had started
to write dodecophonic works, his answer was because he didn't have enough
cords. Webern was idolized by a whole generation of composers because of
the way he derives all of his harmonies from the tone row. This is the
first time I had even been aware that there are still extremists around for
whom the notion of non-diatonic harmony was still somehow controversial.
If this is the case then you might as well reject the idea that music from
the circa 13th - 16th century has harmony, because 'harmony' in music of
this time period cannot be analyzed in Classical tonal terms either - not
to mention 'harmony' in non-Western music. As far as I am concerned the
argument that harmony has to have a Classical diatonic foundation to be
worthy of being called such, is a monstrous polemical construct, akin to
those first manufactured, of course, by Wagner's enemies, when tonal
centering had become too highly ambiguous to explain Wagner's music in
terms of Classical diatonic harmonic analysis. The argument goes that
because it cannot be properly explained in Classical tonal terms it's not
harmony - ergo by implication it's not music either. Mozart suspends
tonality in the introduction to his 'Dissonance' Quartet; yet I think it
is an extremist position to maintain that he also suspends harmony and
writes cacophonous non-music.
>If we cannot agree on this, then we do not even agree on what we're
>talking about, which would make this discussion even more futile.
Bravo, you've kind of summed it up just beautifully there, Jocelyn. This
discussion is indeed a TOTAL waste of time. Now can I please go back to
enjoying my Boulez, Stockhausen, Nono, and Webern without having to pluck
out the angry buzzing fly from my soup.
Satoshi Akima
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:44:44 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele writes:
>True Boulez music is not very much similar to much else, and it IS far
>from Haydn. Boulez is probably the only artist so far who has found an
>authorized expression for quantum mechanics, what Boulez studied at
>University of Paris before he became a fulltime musician.
and later...
>These intellectuals sit today on high chairs and believe that they
>promote the scientific trust with torturing their ears with Boulez
>quantas of completely unpredictable soundimages. The tragic thing is
>just that these people don't understand that Boulez is not their man.
If you read what Boulez has been saying for the MANY decades after his
early formative and more experimental years, there is no mention at all of
Quantum Mechanics, or any mathematics for that matter. Even in his earlier
writings (such as in his book on composition) there is scanty mention if
any at all of mathematical theory. The same holds true if you read his
most recent and most comprehensive book on composition 'Jalon (pour une
decennie)' from 1989 of which I have in in the German translation
'Leitlinien - Gedankengaenge eines Komponisten' as I don't read French
well, and there is no English translation. Although he discusses Berlioz
in the book, mathematics doesn't even get mentioned! These days you will
find Boulez talking more about the relationship music has with painting
(especially Klee, Kandinsky and Mondrian) or poetry (especially Mallarme).
Still I like the implications that this composer of music of the most
exquisitely refined poetic beauty brings an element equivalent to the
wildest abstract theoretical musings of astrophysics to his music. It just
shows how cosmic his music really is. I see no tragedy in this - only joy.
Boulez IS definitely my man.
>He is composing for himself and his clique of friends. I think they are
>sorry to say: Idiots, but I willingly admit that should it come to
>Intelligence Quote, Boulez would greatly outnumber me.
That's what some people said about J.S. Bach in his time - that he was a
composer with his head stuffed full of overly intellectual white elephants.
I am thrilled that you think this of Boulez. It is the best possible
flattery.
>"Now we are fishing in this ocean (=tonal, traditionalist ocean). Here
>our fishermen find beautiful pearls. But we are only fishing in this ocean,
>and perhaps there are even more beautiful pearls to find in other oceans.
>If nobody (=no composers) make exploring journeys, like Cristoforo
>Colombo to other oceans, we have no chance to find the pearls that can
>be hidden there. Of course, not all exploring seafarers (=experimental
>composers) will find pearls, many boats will end as shipwreck and we will
>have nothing out of them. But PERHAPS somebody one day find new pearls,
>and if we don't send out expeditions to other seas we have no chance ever
>to find any other pearls then those we already know what they look like".
Dodecophany, especially the music of Boulez, is to me no fishing expedition
but a veritable treasure trove overflowing with riches. I need not seek -
for I find abundance.
Satoshi Akima
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:49:44 -0500
From: "Richard A. Ujvary" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Interesting that you bring up this work. Your "bizarre tonality" for the
piece reads "atonal" for me especially after I was struck how different
I found the music after consistently listening to Magyar csardases and
verbunks..that was Magyar music for me. I don't know if I ever will get
to enjoy this piece. What strikes me is that if many classical music
listeners like this work which is close to "atonality" why is there such
gnashing of teeth with other works farther along on the atonal scale? Seems
like all you have to do is take just a few steps along the continuum.
Personally, my guess is I would have better luck if I fed on a music diet
of completely "atonal" works or those with "bizarre tonality" as you put it
for a long while. Unfortunately, I think my ears and brain will refuse to
coordinate under those circumstances. At this point, I'm just a "tonal"
guy.
Rich
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:39:14 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele replies (witheringly) to me:
>>Let me just interject here. The only way I can tell if someone
>>understands an atonal score is if they say something meaningful about
>>it, besides whether they like it or not. Most people who rave against
>>atonality don't say anything that shows that they actually understand what
>>they've heard.
>
>Yes. Because most of people who rave against atonality are still in the
>belief that art is about beauty, and nothing else.
See my comment above. "Beauty," my boy, is in the ear of the auditor.
Most people find it ugly, no question. Most people find classical music
itself ugly, or at least boring. Why not give credence to their opinion
as well? In other words, if you want to understand a piece of music, do
you listen to someone who has something to say about the music itself or
to someone who says merely that there's nothing worth understanding?
>There are 12-tone pieces that I enjoy, but I have little interest in
>sitting at a concert counting for every bar that passes "NOW came the
>eleveth note, is next the twelweth on the row?".
I have little interest in doing that as well, beyond once. Fortunately,
many 12-tone composers provide more than that.
>What does it mean, to "understand" an artwork? Is it to figure out what
>the (if musical) composer thought when he composed it? What he felt? If
>he ate asparagus or chopped liver for breakfast? Is it to be able to tell;
>here is that harmony? Or; here Mahler modualtes to F-flat-major? Is that to
>"understand" a piece of music?
It is partly that. But it's mainly that the piece makes some sort of
sense to you, that it's not just a swirl of notes. For example, people
who "understand" the "lux aeterna" modulation in Faure's Requiem realize
that an extraordinary, highly effective change has taken place. They may
not know what kind of modulation or even what a modulation is. It's not
just a bunch of individual notes that go by or moments that go by, one
undifferentiated from the other. So, no, I don't believe technical
knowledge is necessary (though it can often increase one's enjoyment of
a work), but comprehension takes place in other ways as well. Despite
several claims to the contrary, I don't believe there's a different
requirement for listening to 12-tone music than there is for listening
to Wagner or Debussy.
So there.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:59:32 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang replies to me replying to her:
>>>They abandon melody and harmony. One need go no further.
>>
>>Oh, I'm afraid one must. Following quote from Slonimsky's Lexicon of
>>Musical Invective:
>
>Critics wrote that stuff, so it must be true, eh?
No. People who firmly believed in the objective rightness of their taste
wrote that stuff. My point was that the rightness of their taste was
perhaps not objective.
>My quandry is which utterly incorrect statement to refute first. (BTW,
>all your quotes go a long way toward substantiating my statements in an
>earlier thread regarding critics.)
I hate to break this to you, but in writing like this, and indeed
throughout this thread, you yourself have become a critic.
>The transition of the 3rd to the 4th movement of Beethoven's 5th does
>indeed have harmony, as well as an obvious driving rhythm, and, in its
>context, takes us from the main theme (melody) of the 3rd movement to that
>of the 4th.
The point is -- and I seem to have to make it explicit -- is that the
writer didn't hear that it had those things, just as you don't hear beauty,
harmony, melody in (pick whichever dodecaphonist you hate the most). Some
people *do* hear these things, as you've been told repeatedly, and not just
by me. So because you don't hear it or experience it in that way, it can't
possibly be true?
>I can only speculate that your implication is that, since these other
>folks were obviously incorrect when they wrote what they did, I must
>also be incorrect.
Close, but no cigar. My implication is that to these people, Brahms,
Beethoven, Gounod, and so on made no sense, just as Boulez and Carter make
no sense to you. This is far from saying that any of these composers make
no sense at all.
>Sorry, you'll have to do much better than that.
No, no. *You'll* have to do much better than that.
>The atonalists did indeed give up harmony, as well as melody, and they did
>so by design, so there really ought not be any dispute over this.
That's exactly what there is a dispute over. Not all atonalists did this.
Even the ones who did, didn't do so in every atonal piece they wrote.
Names and pieces furnished on request.
>You are free to like them, don't go giving them attributes they don't have
>merely by broadening the definition "harmony" to suit what you want it to
>mean, which seems to be any set of simultaneous pitches in any context.
First of all, not *any* context. Second, *I* don't broaden the definition.
Composers do. That's one reason why Wagner didn't write like Haydn who
didn't write like Monteverdi. Also read the first paragraph of
Persichetti's (a tonal composer, incidentally) treatise on harmony.
>Atonality, by its very nature, abandons harmony, hence its lack of tonal
>center.
Schoenberg said that 12-tone music did not "abandon" harmony. He did say
rather that the pitch-centers changed very quickly. Having had to perform
Schoenberg, I'd agree with him. Thus, Schoenberg (and at least Berg) truly
disliked the term "atonal" applied to their music. Schoenberg preferred
the term "pan-tonal."
>If we cannot agree on this, then we do not even agree on what we're
>talking about, which would make this discussion even more futile. ...
Well, we have agreed on very little so far, why should we stop now?
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:12:45 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>Steve Schwartz replies to Karl Miller's clever observation:
>
>>>Gee, lemme think here, do I or do I not want to fight the traffic, endure
>>>the coughers, spend the money to get a headache? Let's hear it from the
>>>pro-headache crowd! I'm sure the acme of this musical tradition will
>>>induce migraines, or perhaps, in the hands of a true genius, even brain
>>>tumors.
>>
>>Let me put it another way. Do I really want to fight traffic, endure
>>coughers, etc, etc. to be bored out of my skull by music whose course I
>>can predict? Now, the problem in this discussion is that Jocelyn, as is her
>>habit, painted with too broad a brush, and the rest of us have mistakenly
>>stuck to the rather wide boundaries she initially set.
>
>I find it ironic that you say I painted with too broad a brush immediately
>after complaining about music whose course you can predict. By that line
>of reasoning, one might conclude that you never listen to the same piece
>of music twice. After all, if you've heard it more than once, or at least
>often enough to become familiar with it, its course is known to you, and
>therefore you, by your own words, would be bored out of your skull by its
>predictability. But anyone who is not a stranger to your posts knows that
>this is not the case, so one is left to speculate about what you actually
>meant. Moreover, you so completely sidestepped Karl Miller's question in
>such a deftly ballet-like manner that it took me a while to notice.
Whoa! I did not write the first paragraph above! I know these messages are
coming fast and furious, but...that paragraph is definitely not me...
>You implied that you like that effect. Fine, you're free to listen to it
>as much as you like. I and others who condemn atonality do so based on the
>fact that it is designed to create such cacophony (an accurate and brief
>reason), which is why it is entirely reasonable to avoid it.
My concern is not with what you like or do not like. My concerns are those
of definition...do you condemn the music of Schoenberg because some of his
works are not tonal...do you condemn the music of Gesualdo, because much
of his music is not tonal (in all of the discussion I still have no sense
of what you define as atonal)...as well as intent...who is to say what
the composer's intent is; "to create such cacophony," or whatever...
...also to condemn human expression because any one individual or group of
individuals finds it not to their liking...that is what concerns me the
most.
For me, music is the most noble of human expression. To condemn the
expression of another they must almost be guilty of treason. From your
comments, I wonder if you find music you label as being atonal, to be (a
paraphrase of the definition of treason) "an offense of attempting to by
overt acts to overthrow the (music) of the (aesthetic) to which the
offender owes allegiance."
Karl
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:54:00 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
I wrote regarding Boulez et al.
>>How so? There is a line and the harmony is as controlled as it is in
>>Bach.
>
>A controlled line, yes, but there is little or nothing that can be mistaken
>for melody or harmony, but, rather, disdain for them.
I don't understand. Both Boulez and Carter exercise great concern for
harmony and there is plenty of melody in the works of both composers.
>>Atonality=cacophony...it depends. If one defines cacophony as
>>dissonance...
>
>I certainly don't, nor can I rcall anyone doing so, so your apparent
>attempt to create a straw man is futile.
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary
cacophony: Harsh or discordant sound, or an instance of it; hence,
dissonance; discord
>Dissonance was an indispensible aspect of music long before Schoenberg.
>Very often, the most interesting sounds are the most dissonant, but always
>with the right context. The lack of a tonal center essentially equates to
>a lack of context.
The Harvard Dictionary of Music states that one notion of
consonance/dissonance is context. The lack of a tonal center is indeed
a context, a context where a triad can be viewed as a dissonance.
>If I hear some works that feature fingernails-across-the-chalkboard
>cacophony and fail to hear something musically worthwhile, then listen
>again to see if I may have missed something, and perhaps yet again, only
>to find that beneath all the fingernails-across-the- chalkboard cacophony
>was yet more fingernails-across-the-chalkboard cacophony, not only have I
>not closed myself off to it without giving it a shot, but you really have
>no reason to be so sad. Perhaps some Mozart would cheer you up.
I am reminded of the first time I heard the Poulenc Organ Concerto. Not
only did I find it dissonant beyond belief, I thought it was a terrible
piece. The process of developing some understand of that music, opened my
ears to so much wonderful music that has greatly enriched my life. It took
me far more than three or four listenings to appreciate that piece.
Karl
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:29:03 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele replies to me:
>The 12-Tone row is actually a mathematical formula, which is not based on
>pure intervals as the ear percieve them
No. A 12-tone row is *not* a mathematical formula. The chromatic,
even-tempered SCALE is based on a mathematical formula. In that case,
however, you have as much quarrel with Liszt, Wagner, and Debussy as you
do with dodecaphonists.
>You can wring your hands or ring your bells which you prefer, but you
>fall flat as long as Boulez is the example, as he was the greatest rave
>for constructing mathematical music. He explains it himself in his essays.
Boulez talks an awful lot of B.S. in his essays. I haven't read all of
them, but the ones I have I've found rather funny.
>Brahms is now not Boulez, but if you again count how most listeners - I
>count thereto also his admirers - describe his music; well how goes that
>saying that Wagner's music came from his balls, Brahms' from his brain and
>Brueckner's from God...
No, they're not the same. But they have been described the same way by
first-time, mostly bewildered listeners. There may be a lesson here.
>"Ach hvad haver Fanden icke att bestille?"
"Stonet repozhno kumo serenadoy."
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:07:54 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>The atonalists did indeed give up
>harmony, as well as melody, and they did so by design, so there really
>ought not be any dispute over this.
Harvard Dictionary of Music
Harmony: The relationship of tones considered as they sound
simultaneously, and the way such relationships are organized in time;
also any particular collection of pitches sounded simultaneously, termed
a chord.
Melody: In the most general sense a coherent succession of pitches.
By those definitions, the music of Carter and Boulez have both harmony and
melody.
>You are free to like them, don't go giving them attributes they don't have
>merely by broadening the definition "harmony" to suit what you want it to
>mean, which seems to be any set of simultaneous pitches in any context.
see above.
>Atonality, by its very nature, abandons harmony, hence its lack of tonal
>center. If we cannot agree on this, then we do not even agree on what
>we're talking about, which would make this discussion even more futile.
>Ultimately, in threads like this, since neither party is going to make a
>believer out of the other, the most practical thing to do is to agree toi
>disagree.
It has been my goal to make a differentiation between vocabulary and
meaning and to understand, or clarify terms used to describe music.
Karl
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:12:50 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>The transition of the 3rd to the 4th movement of Beethoven's 5th does
>indeed have harmony, as well as an obvious driving rhythm, and, in its
>context, takes us from the main theme (melody) of the 3rd movement to that
>of the 4th. I won't even bother with the other quotes individually, as
>they are obviously false, in that each of the referred works have strong
>melodic and harmonic elements. I can only speculate that your implication
>is that, since these other folks were obviously incorrect when they wrote
>what they did, I must also be incorrect.
I suggest that the critics of Beethoven's time were not yet comfortable with
Beethoven's expanded musical vocabulary, and simply could not make sense of
what they heard. Sure, there's harmony and rhythm in the transition between
the 3rd and 4th movements of Beethoven's 5th, but back in Beethoven's time
that may not have been so obvious, considering the "ear" of that time.
I'd like to make a point about total subjectivity in musical tastes. I
like a lot of different kinds of music, from 12th century Spanish to Mozart
to Mahler to Webern to Schnittke etc.. -- ooooh!! Good for me!! However,
I do dislike some kinds of music (e.g. top 40 stuff from today, like
Britney Spears). It's my prerogative to like or dislike any kind of music.
Part of me wants to say that Beethoven's music is much better than Britney
Spears' music -- to many of us that seems obvious. However, I prefer to
control this impulse and admit that it's still subjective. TO ME
Beethoven's music is better than Britney Spears' music, but TO MY NIECE,
Britney Spears' music is better than Beethoven's. It's mind boggling, but
true!
Mike
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:46:24 -0500
From: Laurence Sherwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
I feel a bit queasy arguing about music with a luminary like Leslie
Kinton, so I'm gonna make nice wid 'im. But Mr Kinton responded harshly
to Jocelyn's anecdote of the musician who "started doing finger exercies
on his instrument. No one gave a clue of having even noticed." Now
Professor Kinton (sorry, for the name calling, but he deserves it!) and
others have chided the musician for his dereliction of duty and- to my
surprise- Jocelyn for citing it. I don't get it. I suppose one might
reasonably take the musician to task, but that in no way invalidates the
point: what is the value of "music" in which it makes no discernable
difference whether or not a cellist is performing the score or some
finger exercises? I think it's an excellent way of showing "the emperor
has no clothes". If some cad tried this during the cavatina movement of
Beethoven's string quartet #13, I'd throttle the s.o.b (I concede I might
not catch it if it happened during Simpson's string quartet #13, which is
still interesting music- well OK, forget that point). Can one really take
seriously the judgement of a competition for new compositions in which a
cat's plunking the keys wins a prize?? Need I point out that Bach, Mozart,
Beethoven, and Shostakovich would- I suppose- have had a less favorable
assessment of the musicality of the cat's ramblings.
This all reminds me of a marvelous joke the physicist Alan Sokol pulled
a few years ago. He read some of the literature on semiotics, and decided
it was bunk. So he cranked out some paper in which he strung together a
bunch of cliches from the field, and coupled it somehow with the quantum
mechanics, and I think "demonstrated" how both disciplines had a comparable
pursuit of the truth. The paper was submitted to the flagship publication
of the Modern Language Association (MLA), whose reviewers loved it. It
was, in one of the reviewer's words, "an important contribution", as I
recall, and the paper was accepted. Only after it was published did
Sokol spring his trap: the paper didn't mean anything. It was utter
intellectual garbage- in fact it had no meaning except for the fog of the
reader-, but some of the leading lights in the field took it seriously. Is
there any wonder many of us have a jaundiced view of humanities in academe?
But unlike Prof. Kinton, there were many traditionalists in the MLA who
praised Sokol for his efforts, saying that it took an outsider to expose
the intellectual bankruptcy of their field- a point many of them had been
making privately for years. I find the professor reaction- consummate
musician though he is- to be uncomfortably close to the proverbial (or was
it actual?) shooting of the messenger for the unpalatable message. Sokol-
and I would claim- the musician doing the finger exercises effectively made
a point that deserves serious consideration, not an attempt to sweep the
matter under the rug simply because you disapprove of his method of
exposing the current orthodoxy (being the suspicious type, I wonder if it's
the methods used that arouse hostility, or the message itself).
While I am disagreeing with an acclaimed pianist, I'll react to another of
his comments on this thread. Mr Kinton claimed:
>but judging a style or idiom as separate from individual works really is
>bizarre.
I beg to differ. I recently had following experience. Someone gave a
me three CDs of Joan Baez signing folk songs, because he knew I liked her
but, since my vinyl recordings have been unplayed for 15 years, I have not
listened to her. So I sat down to listen to her and to recover moments of
my long lost youth. A disappointment. While I still cherish her and the
music she sang, having listened to a pretty steady diet of "classical
music" with some art songs for twenty years, she sounded simplistic,
obvious, with little that would keep me coming back for more. I think I
can say that folk music- for all its considerable charm- falls far short of
serious music. Similarly, with, say rap music, I find nothing there other
than a driving rhythm and an incessant repetition of the banal. I don't
need to hear the latest dreck from the rap industry to know I am missing
nothing of value. Is it possible some "artist" could extend the genre to
a higher plane that would make me value his or her music? Well I suppose
(pigs may yet fly), but in the mean time I know there's much of value in
the standard and "nearly-standard" repetoire for me to discover.
Categorization is useful, if sometimes misleading.
Larry
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:36:41 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>For another, it makes a great many listeners wary of anything composed,
>say, within their or their parents' lifetimes,
While this may be true, it is not the fault of the music, but of
prejudicial judgements on the part of the listener.
>and for those who want classical standards to continue.
I have no idea what this means.
len.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:37:03 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik, I really enjoyed your posting. You have such a rich imagination!
I like your reference to Beethoven's 9th and the Turkish band.
Here are some comments: Of course, the theory of Quantum Mechanics
wasn't discovered until the 20th century. (Btw, I think the beginning of
Beethoven's 9th sort of sounds like the beginning of the universe.) That's
fine if Boulez wants to incorporate Quantum Mechanics into his music, but
I don't think that should be the goal of all music -- I'm sure you agree,
I just wanted to emphasize. I have some of Boulez's music, and I'm not
sure what to think of it. Boulez studied under Messiaen for a while, but
I don't think was influenced much by him.
I'm looking forward to more of your postings. You have so many interesting
ideas!
Mike
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:55:13 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang writes:
>They abandon melody and harmony.
As I'm sure I will not be alone in pointing out, they have not so much
abandoned these principles as redefined them, and continuous redefinition
is a process (evolutionary, progressive, or not) that has characterized
composition (if not all forms of expression) since its inception.
While it may be the case that they have redefined them beyond your
willingness to accept their definitions, there are clearly many who *are*
willing to do so.
>One need go no further.
Unfortunately, one must.
Look, I don't like most of this stuff either, but I'm forced to acknowledge
that my likes and dislikes say far more about me than they do about
anything else.
len.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:46:41 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele wrote:
>What does it mean, "understand the music"?
Let me take a crack at that question: I think I understand a piece of
music when it makes sense to me. Often I need to listen to a new piece
several times before it makes sense to me. When I first started listening
to classical music, I often told my mother, "you'll have to listen to this
a few times before you understand it". Back then, a lot of the music I
listened to sounded like cacophony during the first couple of hearings --
Beethoven, Mahler, Brahms. My mother always asked me, "what do you mean
by 'understand'?" I guess I used (and still use) the term loosely.
Mike
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:09:43 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz writes:
>The only way I can tell if someone understands an atonal score is if they
>say something meaningful about it, besides whether they like it or not.
There's an awful lot of tonal music that I won't claim to "understand"
or about which I could say anything "meaningful". I just enjoy it. I
think some of the dislike of this music may be rooted in the sense that it
entails rather more intellectualization than more "comfortable" genres.
Can you be more specific about what you consider evidence of
"understanding" or what you consider to be a "meaningful" comment?
len.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:47:08 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Steve Schwartz Wrote:
>
>>But harmony is, among other things, a concern for the >>vertical sonority
>>of music.
>
>I agree. I also think that melody could be thought of as the horizontal
>(i.e. time) axis of music. By these definitions of melody and harmony,
>both Boulez's and Carter's music have melody and harmony, although I hear
>these aspects in their music regardless of the definitions.
I don't think I have ever read such utter nonsence. What you are telling
us is in principle that a piece that is more than one chord long, has
melody. I bet you think 4'33 has a really smashing tune too!
>Looking back on 20th century music, I think it was a natural
>progression from Romantic music. As with other major style transitions,
>the progression consisted of some breakthroughs. The breakthroughs that
>sparked the transition from Romantic to 20th century mostly had to do with
>breaking through the bonds of "conventional" tonality. It is generally
>thought that the first pieces of music to accomplish this were Wagner's
>Tristan, and Debussy's "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faune". Certainly
>this loosening of tonality was in the air, ready to be discovered and
>applied by other composers as well.
If it was "natural" I won't tell, but what is most important to remember
is that the development of dodecaphony was by no means the only possible
development from Wagner's chromatism, nor Debussy's Faunes and trolls.
Who said something have to be better just because it came after another?
If so, Haendel has to be better than Monteverdi, Mozart better than Bach,
Beethoven better than Mozart, Brahms better than Beethoven, Mahler better
than Wagner etc.
>As long as there has been music (or any other art form) there has been
>innovation.
True. And as long as there has been music (or any other art form), until
- you know whom - there has been a respect and wish to belong to the
tradition.
>Schoenberg chose a different substitute for conventional tonality which
>definitely didn't sound pretty -- of course music shouldn't necessarily
>be judged by how pretty it sounds.
Here is a can of worms of how to define these words, but there are
certainly different opinions. If you listen to the "Fire of Hell" in
Verdi's Requiem, even that horrifying blast sounds pretty, sure it is not
sweet, nor intended to be.
20th century avantgardism is the only artmovement in world history which I
know of, for which Art hasn't been measured with beautiful vs. ugly.
Didrik Schiele
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:06:35 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
David Runnion <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>
>>One of the musicians who performed for us told of being part of an
>>ensemble that was playing an atonal work. Frustrated with its utter lack
>>of musicality, he decided to put his time to what he determined to be a
>>more productive use, and started doing finger exercises on his instrument.
>>No one gave a clue of having even noticed. If he had done this in a Haydn
>>piece, I guarantee someone would have.
>
>It also displays an astounding lack of professionalism on the part of
>that musician and were I the conductor of that ensemble I'd fire him on
>the spot.
Nonsence. It displays something else, and that is an astounding lack of
professionalism on the part of the composer in question. And if it was
so that the musicians fall into "civil disorder", which Jocelyn Wang's
description sounds as an example of, it is probably because the musicians
don't respect their leader, i.e. the conductor. And why? Becuase he gives
them work they see no meaning in performing, and therefore no joy in doing
so. The musicians are responsible infor the audience to provide them with
enthusiasm, true, but the composer of the music is actually the one who is
responsible for making it possible for the conductor to give his musicians
"space" to togetehr express this enthusiasm.
>Personally I don't believe this or any other of these little "examples" of
>proof that atonal music is Bad.
Perhaps it comes out as being bad because the performers don't know how to
play it? But they are just educated musicians, we can't demand that they
shall understand it as well as most of the audience.
>Interesting, on the musiclassical list we had a similar debate with Mr.
>Barrows, the composer whom Ms. Wang holds up as an example of what
>contemporary music should be. He used exactly the same "examples," word
>for word.
If that is true or not I can't check and I don't care to do. This is
just a rotten circumscriptional personal attack on Jocelyn Wang. Imagine
yourself: All the individual words you use in the above sonnett, I have
seen used in this forum, in other fora, by politicians, by bureaucrats, but
Shakespeare, my cousin, and many others. Therefore you are not allowed to
use them. "If you can't come up with new things, you have no imagination,
and therefore you are stupid, and what you say, to hell with that.
Many others before me has referred to a little stauette with the Monkeys
who don't want to hear anything and don't want to see anything. I would be
proud to referr to it once again, me too.
>Who's surprised? People have been rejecting new ideas in music for
>centuries now.
Yes. Who is surprised? ...when the magicians tell the people about the
trick instead of showing them?
Didrik Schiele
Copenhaugen
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:22:39 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Ben Malkevitch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>1) Birtwistle is rarely mentioned in the same breath as Beethoven (or even
>Britten) in sales. Let's face it: people go with names they know and
>names sell. So on the store shelves, on the airwaves, in the concert
>halls, Beethoven is firmly ensconced while Birtwistle is not.
Beethoven also wrote his notes in granite, Birthwishtle in sand. But
if we don't stick to the specific example, but to guardes, I don't think
that 20th century music (of the avanti sort) get to little space in media
or concert. Few concerts I have been to, even out in the county have
programmed no modern work. Beethoven's 8th symphony after the pause is
of course the worm on the hook.
>2) In turn, Birtwistle (and I'm making a point, even if Birtwistle a
>bad alliterative example) is not a known name because of the prejudice of
>education. I had a professor this past term for a course on the Classical
>period who admitted to me that he tended to stick to Brahms and Beethoven
>because, in the sea of stuff out there right now, he knew he could count on
>them.
Yes, becuase when EVERYTHING is allowed to be art, the only thing one can
be sure that happens is that there will be an unoverviewable ocean of
"art".
Didrik Schiele
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:55:47 -0500
From: Leslie Kinton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood wrote in part:
>Leslie Kinton responded harshly to Jocelyn's anecdote of the musician
>who "started doing finger exercies on his instrument. No one gave a
>clue of having even noticed." Now Professor Kinton (sorry, for the name
>calling, but he deserves it!) and others have chided the musician for his
>dereliction of duty and- to my surprise- Jocelyn for citing it. I don't
>get it. ...
>
>I think it's an excellent way of showing "the emperor has no clothes".
>If some cad tried this during the cavatina movement of Beethoven's string
>quartet #13, I'd throttle the s.o.b (I concede I might not catch it if it
>happened during Simpson's string quartet #13, which is still interesting
>music- well OK, forget that point). Can one really take seriously the
>judgement of a competition for new compositions in which a cat's plunking
>the keys wins a prize??
I would like to thank Laurence for the cordiality of his reply, even
though I disagree with him. First off, Jocelyn was not talking about a cat
"plunking the keys", she was talking about "atonal music", which includes
most of Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, as well as some of Bartok and Stravinsky
(including the last part of *The Rite of Spring*; lest we forget, "atonal"
is a technical term, like dissonance, not primarily a descriptive one).
Whenever I'm teaching an atonal work, even one I don't know well, and a
student plays a wrong note, most of the time I hear it, even when I'm not
looking at the score, and even when I don't know ahead of time what the
note is; in the atonal context, it just sounds wrong. Many people find
atonal syntax as natural as that of tonality. So your implication that
what one can hear in Beethoven one can't hear in an atonal piece is not
valid. The other thing to remember is that performers play wrong notes all
the time in *tonal* pieces (usually by accident), and even professional
musicians sometimes don't notice, particularly if they don't know the
piece, because the mistake may fit the musical context... just as it
might when you play a wrong note in Bartok or Schoenberg.
As to my reaction....
If, as a professional, you agree to perform a particular piece, then you
do just that, and you do it to the absolute extent of your ability. If
you think the piece isn't worth playing, then don't play it. But don't
perpetuate a fraud on your audience when they come to you with openess and
good faith. If you can't find any redeeming value in a piece, no matter
how hard you try, then the professional thing to do is to change the
programme. Anyone who does what this person is said to have done is
creating musical graffiti, and is no better than some wacko on a crusade
who defaces a painting in the name of whatever. And Jocelyn was not just
acting as a messenger: she was cheering this person on.
>This all reminds me of a marvelous joke the physicist Alan Sokol pulled a
>few years ago. He read some of the literature on semiotics, and decided it
>was bunk. So he cranked out some paper in which he strung together a bunch
>of cliches from the field, and coupled it somehow with the quantum
>mechanics, and I think "demonstrated" how both disciplines had a comparable
>pursuit of the truth. The paper was submitted to the flagship publication
>of the Modern Language Association (MLA), whose reviewers loved it. It was,
>in one of the reviewer's words, "an important contribution", as I recall,
>and the paper was accepted. Only after it was published did Sokol spring
>his trap: the paper didn't mean anything. ...
>
>unlike Prof. Kinton, there were many traditionalists in the MLA who praised
>Sokol for his efforts, saying that it took an outsider to expose the
>intellectual bankruptcy of their field- a point many of them had been making
>privately for years.
I would think very carefully before voicing assumptions about what people
think. In point of fact, I have been a great admirer of Alan Sokal's (the
correct spelling) efforts to prick the post-modernist bubble, and have been
in touch with him personally to voice my support for his article (called
"Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of
Quantum Gravity"); he replied with a nice "thank you", which prompted an
exchange of very cordial letters. His article really is a hoot. However,
we're talking apples and oranges here: his efforts did not involve the
deliberate mangling of *someone else's* work.
Leslie Kinton
Piano Faculty, The Glenn Gould Professional School, Toronto.
Anagnoson and Kinton piano duo website: http://www.pianoduo.com
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:24:41 -0500
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>Yes, which has alienated many listeners to the point of not even giving
>modern composers a chance, much to the frustration of more than one modern
>composer whose acquaintance I've made... I told [a departing concert-goer]
>that the works were quite melodic and tonal, and written by composers whose
>views on atonality were probably similar to his, but he considered his
>experience with modern works so utterly unpleasant that he still didn't
>give them a chance. Was he being closed-minded? Absolutely, for he judged
>the works not by their content, but by when they were written. Many
>listeners *have* been driven away from modern music because of atonality.
>That is not merely a subjective view, it is a fact.
I accept that as an unfortunate fact, and I also applaud Culver's
activities in service to contemporary creativity and to such alienated
listeners. However, there appears to be an element of undying enmity to
atonal music here, of the sort that will not be satisfied by less than
stamping it out--as well as all memory of it--whether some folks like it
or not. And that reminds me, I fear, of blood feuds and other inter-group
conflicts so prevalent in the world at large. At some point people will
need to just get over these--or at least learn to see musical works and
other individuals for what they are. What will it take for that to happen,
i wonder?
Jim Tobin
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:11:50 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz writes:
>I haven't seen most of the scores of Webern and Schoenberg.
Please demonstrate your understanding of their music.
>I happen to like some Babbitt.
Meaningless. Please say something meaningful.
len.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:28:08 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>>Cutting through the subjective response of the listener, atonality simply
>>refers to music which is organized without reference to a tonal center.
>
>Yes, which has alienated many listeners to the point of not even giving
>modern composers a chance, much to the frustration of more than one modern
>composer whose acquaintance I've made.
Which is at the heart of what bothers me. It has also been my experience
that some will reject all contemporary music because of the mistaken notion
that all of it avoids tonal centers. In response to that notion, I devoted
five years of my two hour broadcasts to "tonal" music written since 1900.
What I find in this exchange is a "guilt" by association regarding
"non-tonal" music. "Non-tonal=atonal=what I don't like=to be condemned"
Karl
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:59:38 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz writes:
>Let me put it another way. Do I really want to fight traffic, endure
>coughers, etc, etc. to be bored out of my skull by music whose course
>I can predict?
ah yes. I need only look at a great painting once; afterwards I will
be bored by its predictability. In fact, I need only do anything and
everything those few times I need to achieve intimate familiarity, at
which point I can dismiss it as boring and predictable.
So, I must admire my companion who responds to my query, "want to go to
the Louvre?" with "no thanks, already been" as more sophisticated than
myself.
len.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:01:49 -0500
From: Stephen Hicken <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mr. Schiele writes (in the "Kernis" thread):
>There are 12-tone pieces that I enjoy, but I have little interest in
>sitting at a concert counting for every bar that passes "NOW came the
>eleventh note, is next the twelweth on the row?".
Why would you listen that way? It's music, that's all. This "tonailist" vs
"atonalist" style war must stop. It is bad for music, and bad for society
in general.
Steve Hicken
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:00:42 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang responds to me:
>>That Jocelyn finds this music awful has been clearly stated by her
>>time and time again; the repetitive comments are overstaying their
>>welcome.
>
>Ah, thank you for clarifying that you are now the offical spokesman
>for everyone on the list. Henceforth, I shall have to consult you on
>everything I post to make sure it meets with your approval.
Although it would be time-consuming, I am open to the suggestion.
This is my last posting on this thread, and I'd like to sum up my views
on atonal music and the responses to it:
1. Atonal music is real music lacking a tonal center.
2. The absence of a tonal center is reacted to differently by different
individuals.
3. The fact that most folks do not like music without a tonal center is no
more relevant than the fact that most folks don't like classical music.
4. That some people have rejected all of 20th century classical music
because of the existence of atonal music is just a big loss for those
individuals. Personally, I don't care whether they lose or win; they
created their problem and will have to deal with it.
5. The fact that some modern composers feel neglected because of their
allegience to tonal composition is just a cop-out for the fact that their
music is not well liked. They compose, do not get recognized, and look
for someone/something to blame. However, through the centuries, there
have been composers whose works were only well received after their death.
Perhaps a few of these disgruntled modern composers will be eventually
revered. There is nothing new here, and blaming atonal music is a rather
pathetic way to soothe the ego.
6. To put the 'condemned' stamp on any musical genre is extreme and
ridiculous; it might even be extremely ridiculous.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:13:29 -0800
From: Bruce Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Margaret Mikulska wrote:
>>("Almost" because by definition, it can't apply to unpitched percussion.)
Karl wrote:
>It has been my goal to make a differentiation between vocabulary and
>meaning and to understand, or clarify terms used to describe music.
Could we then use "indefinitely pitched", rather than "unpitched", when
referring to non-definitely pitched percussion instruments?
Bruce Hunter
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:55:23 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
An amateur pianist friend played my Prelude #1 (unfamiliar,
not-exactly-tonal, quickly changing, but not technically difficult) and
observed with amazement "I found the music in it!" --- it does take a few
listenings, or a few playings, to find the music in most new music --- and,
as someone else observed, 90% of what we write is actually not very good
anyway (or all our work is 90% bad, I forget how it goes..).
William Copper
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:53:42 -0500
From: William Hong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele wrote in reply to Don Satz:
>>What other folks like or don't like is not relevant to the individual's
>>listening experience.
>
>No it is not relevant to the individual's listening experience. But it
>certainly is highly important for the individual marking his/hers place in
>community. Try to sell some of your Monteverdi operas to members of Hells
>Angels or what your local MC-Club is, see what happens.
Oh I don't know, perhaps some of those Hells Angels might even LIKE the
Underworld as portrayed in "L'Orfeo"...when was the last time you heard
anything like a regal with sackbuts from your local heavy metal group?
Besides, from where else would you think Styx get their name.....:-)
Bill H., humming "Possente spirito" right now....
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:07:28 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
David Runnion wrote:
>First of all, how does one find a pearl without sinking blind into the
>depths, holding your breath, eyes popping, till you find something truly
>new and beautiful? And secondly, since when is it the responsibility of the
>artist to convince more people to wear pearl necklaces? That's the job of
>the retailers and jewelers, not the oyster.
Thank you for a new self-metaphor, David. I, OYSTER, SHALL PEARL.
William Copper, compoyster
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 04:29:46 EST
From: Christian Torrent <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Berlioz's Operas
Yes in Paris at the Librairie Theatrale,Rue de Marivaux
Christian
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:25:39 -0700
From: Ray Bayles <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Berlioz's Operas
I have a huge book that my radio station staff gave me a couple of years
ago that claims to have the librettos of all operas still performed. I
suspect it is available on Amazon. I know there are copies of many of the
most popular librettos in pocket form, because I have some, but I don't see
them listed any longer in book sites. Perhaps they are available in the
used book market. The Opera Guild in New York sold me the ones I have, and
I see others advertised from time to time in Opera magazine.
Ray Bayles
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 01:38:41 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
I always get a kick out of having whatever nonclassical music enthusiast I
am riding in the car with guess who the composer is when this piece comes
on the radio. (I wait until the third variation begins of course.)
I think the playing of it benefits greatly from some jazz-influenced
approach. An overly pedantic player might not give any special emphasis to
the syncopations. E.g. after the descending arpeggio that opens the third
variation, then there are a couple ascending arpeggios in the left hand
with syncopations in the right. I think it adds a lot to strongly accent
the sustained offbeats, ba-dah, BUM, ba-dah, BUM, and the same way in the
corresponding measures. Also a more typically Beethovenian treatment of
the measure immediately following the f-double diminished seventh with the
g in the bass, bringing out the melody e-e-g, e-g-c, somehow adds to the
jazzy, very very catchy effect. (This was hard to explain without sounding
too technical. My apologies to anyone I lost.)
Michael Cooper
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:34:19 -0500
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Walter Meyer:
>Quite true. You find it not only in the Opus 111 but in his early
>works as well, as in the last movement to his First Piano Concerto.
And in a passage of the 3rd Piano Concerto, First Movement, especially the
way Benno Moiseiwitsch played it with Malcolm Sargent.
Jim Tobin
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:21:21 EST
From: Elle Hogan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Listening to Music
[log in to unmask] writes:
>To me, it would be like going for a stroll with someone and taking the
>opportunity to catch up with others by cell phone.
I guess my husband and I are a little closer than your "others" are to
you...?
cheers...
elle
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:07:55 +0200
From: David Rothstein <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Listening to Music
Robert Peters asks why we listen to classical music.
The answer lies inside us as well the question can be: Why do we love
great art in all forms.It is the subjective feeling of great satisfaction
of being part of something spiritual more than physical.
There is pure beauty (Mahler's 3rd- last movement).
There is pure excitement(end of Rachmaninov's 3rd concerto, end of
Prokofiev's 3rd concerto).
There is the triumph of man over fate (Beethoven's 5th)
There is man's love of and submission to nature (Mahler 9th)
There is pure drama (Mahler's 2nd)
There is pure brilliance (coda of Mozart's Jupiter 4th movement)
There is intellectual satisfaction after listening to huge works and
understanding their structure (Bruckner's 5th)
(finally starting to understand the last movement of Mahler's 6th...)
There is the opportunity to listen to many interpretations of great works.
Of course the aforementioned are only a "touch of the iceberg".
At the end of the day maybe the basic reason for listening to classical
music for me is the fact that although I try not to show my emotions, I
will always (however many times I listen) have tears in my eyes at the end
of Bruckner's 5th or Mahler's 8th, Das Lied von Der Erde etc.)
David Rothstein
Israel
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:47:51 -0500
From: Laurence Sherwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Susan Juhl asks if others know of the use of palindromes in music. Well
a little while ago I brought up Robert Simpson's use of them in his string
quartets (but I think Simpson also used palindromes extensively in his
symphonies). In any case, Susan, Simpson was "heavy into" palindromes,
and 9th quartet is a wonder of palindromic intrigue: it consists of
over thirty variations on a theme by Haydn, each variation of which is a
palindrome including (I think) the final fugue. Hyperion has a superb
recording of the Delme Quartet performing this work.
And in the spirit of a kinder, gentler, confessional palindromic year,
I will confess to misleading the list by inaccurately claiming that the
entire 9th quartet was a palindrome. As someone most cordially pointed
out, "only" the individual movements are palindromes.
Larry
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:23:16 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Susan Juhl wrote:
>The year is 2002 -- which of course leads one to an exploration of
>palindromes in music.
>
>The ones I read about are: the prelude and postlude from Hindemuth's Ludus
>Tonalis, Act Three of Berg's Lulu, and Bartok's 5th String Quartet.
>
>Anyone know of others?
Two of my favorites:
Hindemith: Hin und Zuruck (which we did when I was in graduate school)
Papineau-Couture: Piece Concertante No.1 for Piano and Strings (a
lovely...my opinion...bit of non-tonal music)
Karl
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:54:32 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Susan Juhl ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>The year is 2002 -- which of course leads one to an exploration of
>palindromes in music.
>
>The ones I read about are: the prelude and postlude from Hindemuth's Ludus
>Tonalis, Act Three of Berg's Lulu, and Bartok's 5th String Quartet.
The minuet from Haydn's Symphony No.47, later used by Robert Simpson in his
String Quartet No.9 which consists of 32 palindromic variations on the
Haydn followed by a fugue.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:13:47 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Joseph Haydn plays around alot with palindromes and similar spex in his
early pianosonatas. Actually writing an audial palindrome is not more
difficult than anyone can do it. But do it and having it sounding well,
making sence to the ear, is another race. The trick to make a palindrome
sound well, is many times not to draw the ears attention to that it
actually is a palindrome it hears. Haydn deos it remarkable well,
sometimes as a fusial development of two arguments.
I am BTW to greater extent than most, I think, tempted to think of Haydn as
a "Piano-Composer". In my taste he exceeds Mozart as such.
More on palindromes. Alban Berg's operas are symphonically damned advanced
stuff. I never thought of looking for palindromes in them though. But I
know that Berg in his youth was obsessed with the mysticism of Numbers,
inspired by Schoenberg, who throughout his whole life dabbled with such.
Didrik Schiele
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:36:09 -0500
From: William Hong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Susan Juhl wrote:
>The year is 2002 -- which of course leads one to an exploration of
>palindromes in music.
>
>The ones I read about are: the prelude and postlude from Hindemuth's Ludus
>Tonalis, Act Three of Berg's Lulu, and Bartok's 5th String Quartet.
>
>Anyone know of others?
Sure, there's the Minuet from Haydn's Symphony #47 (IIRC), from which the
entire symphony is nicknamed "The Palindrome".
Bill H.
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:24:11 -0500
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
Ellen Hogan:
>By the way, I'm listening to Alina by Arvo Part right now...so meditative
>and ... well...
Please go on. That work could not be more simple, but it stands up to a
great deal of repetition and I'm not sure why--except that it is beautiful,
of course. It's an instance of what I once called profoundly restful
music.
Jim Tobin
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:30:41 +0200
From: David Rothstein <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
[log in to unmask] writes:
>I chose Mozart, but I haven't started with him myself. My route of
>most listened composers periods has been: 1-Tchaikovski, 2-Beethoven,
>3-Bach,4-Brahms. Could anyone trace a similar chronology of their musical
>story?
This is very interesting. I myself did not have official music training
however I listened to music and sang in a choir when I was a boy (listened
to musicals,:Sparky records-whoever remembers them).
My first serious bit of listening was at 12 years old to Beethoven's 5th
but was especially impressed by the last "victory over fate" movement.
Since then (30 years) I branched to all the major Classical, Early and
late romantic and early 20th century (Prokofiev, Shostakovich) orchestral
(symphonies, concertos etc') repetoir.
If I have to concise each decade (3 of them until now) into main composers
or streams of interest I would do so as follows:-
1- Beethoven,Brahms,Schuman, Dvorak etc'
2- Bruckner
3- Mahler
I wonder what will be next? (Wagner, Atonal)
By the way, I hardly listen anymore to Tchaikovsky (except to the 6th with
Horenstein) as I find this more like watching a soap opera than a good
classic BBC series.I find Rachmaninov far more exciting and enjoyable.
David Rothstein- Israel
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:20:32 -0700
From: John Kregarman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
On the internet I can go to the BMG web site and sample music from a disk
before I order it. I can not do so at our record stores. And yet it would
be quite possible for our record companies to supply all or most of its
releases to outlets on CD-roms where it could be heard (again using current
technoledgy) by any one interrested, all be it in somewhat degraded sound.
45 hours of music can be put on one CD-rom! Or internet connections could
be used.
John J Kregarman
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:14:42 -0500
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Record Store Ordering Policies
In Milan (Italy) one of the biggest CD-stores has some 50 "listening
stations" hanging around in the store, which consist of headphones and a
laser-reader. You have simply to put the bar-code of the celophane-packed
CD of interest (of all musical genres) below the laser-reader and you can
listen to excerpts (2-3 minutes) of the tracks. Like this at least you get
an idea of the music on the disc, which will not help you much if you want
to decide between different versions of the same work, but helps a lot if
you want to know if you like the music or a certain work of a certain
composer.
Achim Breiling
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:57:09 -0500
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Dis somebody hear and thus could comment on the new Naxos CD with
orchestral= music by Webern (symphonie op.21, Passacaglia op.1, 5 Satze fur
Streich= orchester op.5, 6 Stucke op.6, 5 Stucke op.10, Variationen op.30
- Ulste= r Orchestra, Yuasa)?
Achim Breiling
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:08:49 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Jeremy Wright <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Also, if you think that you could stomach it, Berg also put together a
>rather dissonant and unhappy opera, "Wozzek".
That depends what you want. It is a sad story right, but as a
symphonical Building it is very impressive. It goes back on
the traditional sonata-form (Act I) while being integrated in the plot. So
that the Majors marchmusic is the Scheromovement and so on. The Interlude
to Act III is the most powerful music I ever encountered from this style.
Though Berg as a general rule doesn't sound as much 12-tone as he is.
>Another composer in the same catagorie is Hans Werner >Henze. From him I
recommend his Requiem.
Personally there is much by Henze I like, but I think he took the road too
far just in the Requiem. In the requiem Henze dabbles a lot with the old
polyphonal structures, of the old masters of renaissance, and I think it
only to lesser extent represent that Henze I have as schablon "This is Henze".
I have listened to the symphonies 1-6 (conducted by the composer on DGG)
recently and I like the more the more I listen. Rattles recent recording
of the 9th was really super, and well worth the money (it laid just over
20 dollars). He is a wonderful symphonist and I really don't think he, like
many others who lived through the avantguardism of 20th century, is deaf
for the new deal which has sprung with the Media boost in art - It happened
long ago actually, Berios Symphony is 30 years old, Schnittke is even dead
- as he showed in "Tristan" with its polyvalent form and the polyphonic inspirations
combined with the juxtaposition and shifts of the different shickts the music
consists of. Henze has his own voice, I always thought, a clear and strong
one. Still in "Tristan" (name is not chosen by random) he makes great effort
to tie back to Act III of Wagner's opera "Tristan und Isolde". And I tell
you, this is something complete different than Peter Zinofieff trying to
ape Geoffrey King's "Tristans Folly"!! No I say, think twice about the Requiem
and consider "Der Prinz von Homburg", the *2nd Cello Concerto* (perhaps the
best in its genre from the past century!) and "Tristan". I personally also
like his way of connecting his concertos to a literate source, like the 2nd
Piano Concerto to a Shakespeare sonnet. Thats literate. Cute.
Didrik Schiele
[log in to unmask]
________________________________________
Fa din egen webmail pa http://mail.sol.dk - gratis og med dig overalt!
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:20:14 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Thanh-Tam Le <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Wolfgang Rihm (1952), highly versatile and prolific composer whose most
>inspired works can be memorable.
I noticed that his "Die Eroberung von Mexico" has been very popular, and
Ingo Metzmacher's recording got fine reviews thereto. What are others
opinions?
Is Wolfgang Rihm now a relative of Rolf Riehm or not? Are there any
[biological] raltion between them?
Feel free to respond privately to me.
Didrik Schiele
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:08:35 EST
From: Mary Powers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Atonal Music for Newbies
hello, I am a newcomer to classical music. I'm so ignorant that I'm not
sure where to start with atonal music. I like some 20th century: Faure
(OK, not quite 20th but cheating just a little), Messiaen, Copland.
also there was a piece I heard in music class ages ago that was an
example of pointillism - I can't remember the title though. It was
composed in 1970. I remember that because it was the year of the release
of my favorite childhood album, bridge over troubled water. does anyone
know who the composer might be? I thought maybe George Crumb but I'm not
sure.
I admit this whole discussion of tonality/atonality leaves me pretty
confused. any suggestions on where to start learning?
thanks,
Mary Powers
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:12:30 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Another Quasthoff Conquest
A few days ago I received the Quasthoff recording of Schubert's
*Schwanengesang* and Brahms' *Vier ernste Gesaenge* from BMG and started
to play it. My wife passed through the room just as he was singing the
"Staendchen" (Serenade), which happens to be a favorite of hers, although
she's not generally a lover of classical music. She stopped what she was
doing, sat down, requested the text and started following the songs in
their English translation, insisting that I start the recording from the
beginning. It was the ideal combination of music by Schubert, a composer
she has gotten to like more than other classical composers, the relation
of the piano introductions and accompaniment to the songs themselves, and
Quasthoff's magnificent singing.
She didn't stay for the Brahms. She'd apparently had enough of a good thing.
Walter Meyer
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:31:37 +0100
From: Bruno Galeron <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bach Organ Works
I wrote:
>I think Walcha's are unavailable now although some stores seem to have
>some copies left. However it is more "expensive" than the 2 others (on
>Harmonia Mundi and Berlin classics). I only hope Walcha complete series
>will be reissued in the same small box format we usually see now from DG,
>Philips, Emi...
Actually I think I was wrong, Walcha's complete recordings seem to be
currently availabe as Don said.
However, a new reissue would be welcome. The more recent box sets from DG
are much smaller and... cheaper!
I heard many good things regarding Andre Isoir and his complete recordings
(on Calliope). The complete box set edition sounds to be at the same price
range as Walcha (while each CD is at full price alone!?!?!).
Any thoughts about Isoir?
Bruno Galeron
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:24:34 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dead Russian Composer Personality Test
Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Joel Hill wrote:
>
>>When I chose ALL the Vodka choices, I ended up as Glazounov.
>
>I did the same and got Moussorgski! Is it possible the >same choices don't
>always come up w/ the same composer?
Dave Lampson sneaked in:
>[A scientific study is obviously warranted. -Dave]
I didn't put togetehr the page so I can't tell for sure, but it is possible
to enter a check on the first question only. It asks what one is gonna do
if somebody is mad with you or you are really made with somebody else.
Then you get (from memory, I lost the link):
"I just deal with it" = Tchaikowsky
"I go out and fight" = Prokofijev
"I attack the object in public medium" = Borodin
"I turn my feelings into creative work" = Shosty
"I go home and bang on things" = Strawinsky
"I get really depressed" = Rachmanninov
"I drink Wodka" = Mussorgskij
Thats the alternatives that are, so where are Rimsky-Korsakov and Glazunov?
I would guess that each of the initial questions answer give a certain
number of points, which so far fall within these above listed composers
intervals. Then a value which adds or draws from this score is hidden
behind every next answer. Say for example that you are Tschaykowsky (I
guess highest point) in the first question. and you answer lowpoint
answers in the rest of question you might not continue to score high enough
for Tschaikowsky, and you can end up as somebody else. Glazunow and
Rimskys intervals may lie between some of the others above, therefore they
will not show up when replying to the first question solely, but a certain
cobination of questions might allow one to score within their intervals.
Of course it requires a witty constructor of such a personality test to
make this system apply to actual true facts, so the result can correspond
with at least some "right" answers. At one of the underlaying pages there
was another personality test, with the friends of Elger which inspired him
to the Enigma Variations, which I think was better constructed (though I
enjoyed this russian test a lot).
I ended up as Tschaikowsky myslef, I didn't see any other did. Anyone? Who
are you Steve?
Didrik Schiele
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:50:13 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Grammies - Quasthoff, Boulez, Naxos
[And U2 too...:)]
Category 87 - Best Engineered Album, Classical
1. Berlioz: Les Troyens
Simon Rhodes, engineer (Sir Colin Davis) [LSO Live]
2. Bernstein (Arr. Brohn & Corigliano): West Side Story Suite (Lonely
Town; Make Our Garden Grow, Etc.)
Richard King, engineer (Joshua Bell) [Sony Classical]
3. Haydn: The Complete String Quartets
Marc Aubort, engineer (The Angeles String Quartet) [Philips]
4. Respighi: Belkis, Queen Of Sheba-Suite; Dance Of The Gnomes; The Pines
Of Rome
Keith O. Johnson, engineer (Eiji Oue) [Reference Recordings]
5. Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony (Sym. No. 2, Org. 1913 Version)
Etc.
Ralph Couzens, engineer (Richard Hickox) [Chandos Records]
Category 88 - Producer Of The Year, Classical Albums only.
1. Manfred Eicher
- Haydn: The Seven Words (Rosamunde Quartett)
- Holliger: Schneewittchen (Heinz Holliger, J. Banse, C. Kallisch, S.
Davislim, O. Widmer & W. Groschel)
- Leos Janacek - A Recollection (In The Mist; Piano Sonata, 1. X. 1905;
On An Overgrown Path, Etc.) (Andras Schiff)
- Morimur (Bach: Partita D Min.; Christ Lag In Todesbanden; Jesu Meine
Freude, Etc.) (Christoph Poppen & The Hilliard Ens.)
- Schonberg: Verklarte Nacht/Veress: Four Transylvanian Dances/Bartok:
Divertimento (Thomas Zehetmair & Camerata Bern)
2. David Frost
- Mendelssohn: Songs Without Words, Etc./Chopin: Barcarolle, Op. 60;
Polonaise-Fantaisie, Op. 61, Etc. (Alicia de Larrocha)
- Schoenfield: Cafe Music; Burlesque; Carolina Reveille, Etc. (Paul
Schoenfield & Various)
- Schubert: Piano Duets - The Final Year (Fantasy In F Min.; Lebenssturme,
Etc.) (Richard & John Contiguglia)
3. James Mallinson
- Berlioz: La Damnation De Faust (Sir Colin Davis)
- Berlioz: Les Troyens (Sir Colin Davis)
- Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique; Overture: Beatrice Et Benedict (Sir
Colin Davis)
- Strauss: Die Liebe Der Danae (Leon Botstein, L. Flanigan, P.
Coleman-Wright, H. SMith, W. Lewis & L. Saffer)
4. Joanna Nickrenz
- Haydn: The Complete String Quartets (Boxed Set) (The Angeles String
Quartet)
5. Robina G. Young
- Elgar: Nursery Suite; Serenade; Dream Children & Other Works (Paul
Goodwin)
- Foss: Piano Concertos; Elegy For Anne Frank (Jon Nakamatsu, Y. Kasman,
L. Foss & E. Foss)
- Rachmaninov: Piano Con. No. 3; Rhapsody On A Theme Of Paganini (Jon
Nakamatsu)
- The Second Circle - Love Songs Of Francesco Landini (Anonymous 4)
- Tavener: Total Eclipse; Agraphon (Paul Goodwin & Edward Higginbottom)
Category 89 - Best Classical Album
Award to the Artist(s) and to the Album Producer(s) if other than the
Artist.
1. Berlioz: Les Troyens
Sir Colin Davis; Michelle De Young, Ben Heppner, Petra Lang, Peter Mattei,
Stephen Milling, Sara Mingardo & Kenneth Tarver; James Mallinson, producer
(Various Artists; London Sym. Orch.) [LSO Live]
2. Boulez Conducts Varese (Ameriques; Arcana; Deserts; Ionisation)
Pierre Boulez; Helmut Burk & Karl-August Naegler, producers (Chicago Sym.
Orch.) [Deutsche Grammophon]
3. Janacek: Sarka
Sir Charles Mackerras; Jaroslav Brezina, Ivan Kusnjer, Peter Straka & Eva
Urbanova; Petr Vit, producer (Czech Phil. Orch.) [Supraphon - A. S.]
4. Schoenberg: Piano Concerto, Etc./Berg: Sonata, Op. 1/Webern:
Variations, Op. 27
Pierre Boulez; Mitsuko Uchida, piano; Wilhelm Hellweg, producer (The
Cleveland Orch.) [Philips]
5. Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony (Sym. No. 2, Org. 1913
Version), Etc.
Richard Hickox; Brian Couzens, producer (London Sym Orch.) [Chandos
Records]
Category 90 - Best Orchestral Performance
Award to the Conductor and to the Orchestra.
1. Beethoven: Die Symphonien
Claudio Abbado (Karita Mattila, soprano, Thomas Moser, tenor, Thomas
Quasthoff, bass & Violeta Urmana, mezzo soprano; Tonu Kaljuste; Eric
Ericson Cham. Cho. & Swedish Radio Cho.; Berliner Phil.) [Deutsche
Grammophon]
2. Boulez Conducts Varese (Ameriques; Arcana; Deserts; Ionisation)
Pierre Boulez (Chicago Sym. Orch.) [Deutsche Grammophon]
3. Bruckner: Sym. No. 3 In D Min.
Osmo Vanska (BBC Scottish Sym. Orch.) [Hyperion]
4. Messiaen: Turangalila-Symphonie (1990 Version)
Kent Nagano (Pierre-Laurent Aimard, piano & Dominique Kim, ondes martenot;
Berliner Phil.) [Teldec Classics International]
5. Schuman: Violin Con.; New England Triptych/Ives: Variations On
"America"
Jose Serebrier (Philip Quint, violin; Bournemouth Sym. Orch.) [Naxos]
Category 91 - Best Opera Recording
Award to the Conductor, Album Producer(s), and Principal Soloists.
1. Berlioz: Les Troyens
Sir Colin Davis; Michelle De Young, Ben Heppner, Petra Lang, Peter Mattei,
Stephen Milling, Sara Mingardo & Kenneth Tarver; James Mallinson, producer
(Various Artists; London Sym. Orch.) [LSO Live]
2. Janacek: Sarka
Sir Charles Mackerras; Jaroslav Brezina, Ivan Kusnjer, Peter Straka & Eva
Urbanova; Petr Vit, producer (Czech Phil. Orch.) [Supraphon - A. S.]
3. Massenet: Manon
Antonio Pappano; Roberto Alagna & Angela Gheorghiu; David Groves, producer
(Earle Patriarco & Jose van Dam; Orch. Sym. de la Monnaie) [EMI Classics]
4. Ruders: Handmaid's Tale
Michael Schonwandt; Anne Margrethe Dahl, Poul Elming, Hanne Fischer, Aage
Haugland, Susanne Resmark & Marianne Rorholm; Henrik Sleiborg, producer
(Royal Danish Orch.) [da capo]
5. Strauss: Ariadne Auf Naxos
Giuseppe Sinopoli; Natalie Dessay, Albert Dohmen, Ben Heppner, Anne Sofie
von Otter & Deborah Voigt; Sid McLauchlan, producer (Staatskapelle Dresden)
[Deutsche Grammophon]
Category 92 - Best Choral Performance
Award to the Choral Conductor, and to the Orchestra Conductor if an
Orchestra is on the recording, and to the Choral Director or Chorus
Master if applicable.
1. Bach: Christmas Cantatas
Sir John Eliot Gardiner (The English Baroque Soloists, Katharine Fuge,
soprano, Stephan Loges, bass, Sara Mingardo, contralto, Ann Monoyios,
soprano, Rufus Muller, tenor, Julian Podger, tenor, Derek Lee Ragin,
countertenor & Gotthold Schwarz, bass; The Monteverdi Cho.) [Archiv
Produktion]
2. Bach: St. Matthew Passion
Nikolaus Harnoncourt; Norbert Balatsch & Erwin Ortner (Bernarda Fink,
contralto, Matthias Goerne, bass, Dietrich Henschel, bass, Christoph
Pregardien, tenor, Dorothea Roschmann, soprano, Michael Schade, tenor,
Christine Schafer, soprano, Markus Schafer, tenor, Elisaeth von Magnus,
contralto & Oliver Widmer, bass; Arnold Schoenberg Chor & Wiener
Sangerknaben; Concentus Musicus Wien) [Teldec Classics International]
3. Dvorak: Stabat Mater
Giuseppe Sinopoli; Matthias Brauer (Johan Botha, tenor, Ruxandra Donose,
mezzo soprano, Roberto Scandiuzzi, bass & Mariana Zvetkova, soprano; Chor
der Sachsischen Staatsoper Dresden; Staatskapelle Dresden) [Deutsche
Grammophon]
4. Golijov: La Pasion Segun San Marcos
Maria Guinand (Reynaldo Gonzalez Fernandez, dancer, Cantoria Alberto Grau
& Luciana Souza, vocals; Schola Cantorum de Caracas; Orquesta La Pasion)
[Hanssler Classic]
5. Rihm: Deus Passus - Passions-Stucke Nach Lukas
Helmuth Rilling (Juliane Banse, soprano, Cornelia Kallisch, alto, Christoph
Pregardien, tenor, Andreas Schmidt, baritone & Iris Vermillion, mezzo
soprano; Gachinger Kantorei; Bach-Collegium Stuttgart) [Hanssler Classic]
Category 93 - Best Instrumental Soloist(s) Performance (with Orchestra)
Award to the Instrumental Soloist(s) and to the Conductor.
1. Ligeti: Piano Concerto
Reinbert de Leeuw; Pierre-Laurent Aimard, piano (Asko Ensemble) Track from:
The Ligeti Project I (Melodien; Chamber Concerto, Etc.) [Teldec Classics
International]
2. Rouse: Concert De Gaudi/Tan Dun: Con. For Guitar And Orch. (Yi2)
Muhai Tang; Sharon Isbin, guitar (Gulbenkian Orch.) [Teldec Classics
International]
3. Schoenberg: Piano Concerto, Etc./Berg: Sonata, Op. 1/Webern:
Variations, Op. 27
Pierre Boulez; Mitsuko Uchida, piano (The Cleveland Orch.) [Philips]
4. Schuman: Violin Concerto
Jose Serebrier; Philip Quint, violin (Bournemouth Sym. Orch.) Track from:
Schuman: Violin Con.; New England Triptych/Ives: Variations On "America"
[Naxos Of America]
5. Strauss Wind Concertos (Horn Concerto; Oboe Concerto, Etc.)
Daniel Barenboim, piano/conductor; Dale Clevenger, horn; Larry Combs,
clarinet; Alex Klein, oboe; David McGill, bassoon (Chicago Sym. Orch.)
[Teldec Classics International]
Category 94 - Best Instrumental Soloist Performance (without Orchestra)
Award to the Instrumental Soloist.
1. Alkan: Sym. For Solo Piano; Souvenirs: Trois Morceaux Dans Le Genre
Pathetique
Marc-Andre Hamelin, piano [Hyperion]
2. Britten Cello Suites (1 - 3)
Truls Mork, cello [Virgin Classics]
3. Glazunov: Complete Piano Music, Vol. 1
Duane Hulbert, piano [Bridge Records]
4. Liszt: Sonata, Ballades And Polonaises
Stephen Hough, piano [Hyperion]
5. Schumann: Davidsbundlertanze, Op. 6; Concert Sans Orch.
Maurizio Pollini, piano [Deutsche Grammophon]
Category 95 - Best Chamber Music Performance
Award to the Artists.
1. Boulez: Sur Incises; Messagesquisse; Anthemes 2
Pierre Boulez & Ensemble InterContemporain [Deutsche Grammophon]
2. Haydn: The Complete String Quartets
The Angeles String Quartet [Philips]
3. Messiaen: Quartet For The End Of Time
Myung-Whun Chung, piano, Paul Meyer, clarinet, Gil Shaham, violin & Jian
Wang, violoncello [Deutsche Grammophon]
4. Villa-Lobos: String Quartets, Vol. 6, Nos. 4, 9, 11
Cuarteto Latinoamericano [Dorian Recordings]
5. Walton: The String Quartets
The Emperor Quartet [Black Box Music]
Category 96 - Best Small Ensemble Performance (with or without Conductor)
Award to the Ensemble (and to the Conductor.)
1. Absolution (Mahoney: Dance Machine/Schnyder: Zoom Out/Sumera: Play
For 10, Etc.)
Kristjan Jarvi; Absolute Ensemble (Denman Maroney, prepared piano & Dave
Taylor, bass trombone) [Enja/Nova]
2. After Mozart (Raskatov, Silvestrov, Schnittke, Etc.)
Gidon Kremer, violin; Kremerata Baltica [Nonesuch Records]
3. Alfons V El Magnanim - El Cancionero De Montecassino
Jordi Savall; La Capella Reial de Catalunya [Alia Vox]
4. Boismortier: Serenades Francaises (Daphnis Et Chloe: Chaconne;
Fragments Melodiques; Concerto Pour Basson, etc.)
Herve Niquet; Le Concert Spirituel (Laurent Le Chenadec, bassoon) [Naxos Of
America]
5. Morales: Missa Si Bona Suscepimus
Peter Phillips; The Tallis Scholars [Gimell]
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:15:07 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Handmaid?
Ruders' "The Handmaid's Tale" was just nominated for Grammies as best
contemporary composition and best opera recording. Is anyone familiar
with it?
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:47:59 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - The Soundtrack
From my Dec. 4 review:
Speaking of Wagner, the music for "Fellowship" is an essential - and
glorious - component of the film. Unusual for a director, Jackson
personally supervised the creation of the soundtrack. It is mainly the
work of Howard Shore, in the culmination of a distinguished career that
ranges from TV work to 40 films. To identify Shore, just think of the role
of music in "Philadelphia" - that says it all. His two-hour long score
here is a coherent, unified work, although with different sound for each
civilization - for example, the use of the raita from North Africa in
segments involving the Ringwraiths - performed by the London Philharmonic
and the Voices of London.
Enya contributed two key songs: "Aniron," for the sequence between Arwen
and Aragorn; and "May It Be," which is heard at the conclusion of the film.
Although the music stays in the background (no hitting over the head,
deafening the audience here, thank goodness), several times, it came to the
fore for me through its great beauty, and I was making a note to listen to
the soundtrack and find those excerpts.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:20:25 -0000
From: "Nicholas J Roberts" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
James Tobin came up with the name Arvo Part with regard to another
discussion.
Does his early work Perpetuum Mobile class as being palindromic (excepting
the instrumentation and transposition of the tone rows)? Just a thought.
Nicholas J Roberts
[log in to unmask]
www.nicholas-j-roberts.co.uk
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:43:53 +0100
From: Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Vonk-erisms
From: Mitch Friedfeld <[log in to unmask]>
>Nice try, Gene, but for some truly hilarious and creative English, try the
>wit and wisdom of Leif Segerstam:
>
>http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/music/segerstam.html
A sad post from You, Mitch Friedfeld! This is just hoax, certainly because
not even my fat old philosophy teacher way back could come up with so many
silly speeches in half a year!! I wonder who made the page, must be some
jerk; at least I think there is Techno enough to make fun of, instead making
curious people believe that we classical nuts are more mouldy then we are.
Didrik Schiele
________________________________________
Fa din egen webmail pa http://mail.sol.dk - gratis og med dig overalt!
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:45:45 -0500
From: David Cheng <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Washington Musica Viva Concert
The twelfth concert in the Washington Musica Viva Czech Music Series will
be on Tuesday January 15 at the Czech Embassy in Washington, DC. The
ensemble of Lina Bahn, violin (of the Corigliano String Quartet), Lisa
Ponton, viola, Lori Barnet, cello, and Carl Banner, piano has real magic!
The program includes Bedrich Smetana's Piano Trio Op. 15 (a full-blown
romantic masterpiece), Vitezslav Novak's Cello Sonata Op. 68 (a powerful
and significant work of his later years, long out of print), and Antonin
Dvorak's D Major Piano Quartet, Op. 23, tender, lighthearted, and
unmistakably Dvorak. Someone who heard part of the first rehearsal
called it "overwhelmingly beautiful."
The concert begins at 7:30. The Czech Embassy is at 3900 Spring of Freedom
St. NW, Washington DC. (One long block east of Connecticut Ave, off
Tilden St). Reservations are recommended. Please call (202) 274-9100,
ext. 3413. Tickets are $10 at the door.
This will be a great concert, so don't miss it!
http://www.mzv.cz/washington/
http://www.geocities.com/washingtonmusicaviva/
David Cheng <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:20:33 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Atonal Music for Newbies
Mary Powers writes:
>hello, I am a newcomer to classical music. I'm so ignorant that I'm not
>sure where to start with atonal music. I like some 20th century: Faure
>(OK, not quite 20th but cheating just a little), Messiaen, Copland.
I noticed that on an old post in the list archives you wrote:
>When I want sad music, I turn to pieces such as Messiaen's Quartet,
>especially "The birds".
I don't think you are anywhere near so ignorant as you say you are, Mary!
Messiaen's compositions can largely be viewed as essentially 'atonal'. It
seems in your 'ignorance' you have been guilty of complicity with the nasty
atonal enemy. Remember that these atonalists are incapable of any human
feelings, so they only wrote nasty cerebral and mathematical music. The
sadness you experience when you listen to Messiaen is but a mere illusion.
Don't forget that his music has no melody or harmony either. Worst of all
is that there are tonal allusion in his works so impure that they make
tonal music sound indistinguishable from the atonal monstrosities. What an
insult to tonality. Horror of horrors - you've been duped, brainwashed by
the Evil Empire of Atonal Conspirators. Stop listening to Messiaen NOW -
else all chance of Salvation shall be forever lost to thee.
Messiaen was a father to many these composers you see being vilified.
He taught both Boulez and Stockhausen. I believe Xenakis also studied
with him. Like these composers he taught, Messiaen also wrote purely
experimental music such as "Mode de Valeurs et d'Intensites" - an attempt,
along with Boulez's early "Structures", at what was known as absolute
serialism (and which Didrik Schiele claims is definitive proof that these
composers wrote only 'mathematical music'). Like Boulez, Messiaen moved
on after those formative years to write music in which intuition played
a greater role, as he felt this produced music of greater richness,
unpredictability, and complexity than anything produced by the most
thorough-going structural systemization. Messiaen's music is amongst the
most accessible of all of the post-war avant-garde. He is perhaps the best
place to start exploring the post-war avant-garde, just as Berg is the
place to start with the composers of the Second Viennese School of the
first half of the 20th century (I refer you to the recent posts on this
subject). As with Berg there are many tonal allusions in Messiaen's
compositions, which, like Schnittke's works, can be thought of being
polystylistic.
If you like Messiaen, I might suggest moving on to try the Japanese
composer Takemitsu who also writes a very sensuous style of music in a
similar vein to some of Messiaen's works. Try Seiji Ozawa's recording of
'A Flock Descends into a Pentagonal Garden'.
I also recommend the book 'Leaving Home' by Michael Hall. There are CD's
you can buy with examples that illustrate the music in the book. You'll
find plenty to keep you fascinated.
However, I am the first to admit that a lot of this avant-garde stuff
can be difficult listening. I imagine some dear kindly soul on the list
will 'help' you come up with a compilation of the most extremely difficult
experimental works, some of which even I would have difficulty with, just
to throw the novice into the deep end of 20th century music (preferably
with lead weights attached). There are even works by Messiaen that aren't
that easy going - even for a seasoned listener like me. However it's
obvious that you have a genuine feeling for Messiaen's compositional style,
and that intuitive 'feel' for his music has obviously overcome any
theoretical technical difficulty any 'novice' is supposedly meant to have:
Love conquers all. Although it can be strange the sort of things you can
come to love, I'd still strongly recommend thoroughly exploring Messiaen's
other compositions before giving any of his pupils a try.
Now, although I've heard a reasonable selection of his composition I'm
still no Messiaen expert so can other people make some good suggestions -
and not just his Turangalila Symphony please.
Taking about love conquering the strangeness of new music here is a
wonderful quotation from Nietzsche's "The Gay Science" 334:
One must learn to love. This is what happens to us in music: First
one has to learn to hear a figure and tune at all, to be able to hear
it, to distinguish it, isolate and delimit it as a life of its own.
Then it demands of us hard work and our good will that we tolerate
it in spite of its strangeness, patience with its appearance and
expression, and kindheartedness towards its oddity. Finally there
comes a moment when we are use to it, when we wait for it, when we
intuit that we should miss it if it were missing; and now it continues
to compel and enchant us relentlessly until we have become its humble
and enraptured lovers who desire nothing form the world than it and
only it.
But that happens to us not only in music. That is how have learned
to love all things that we now love. In the end we are always rewarded
for good will, our patience, fairmindedness, and gentleness towards
what is strange; gradually, it sheds its veil and turns out to be a
new and indescribable beauty. That is its thanks for our hospitality.
Even those who love themselves will have learned it this way: there
exists no other path. Love, too, must be learned.
Man muss lieben lernen. - So geht es uns in der Musik: erst muss
man eine Figur und Weise ueberhaupt hoeren lernen, heraushoeren,
unterscheiden, als ein Leben fuer sich isolieren und abgrenzen; dann
braucht es Muehe und guten Willen, sie zu ertragen, trotz ihrer
Fremdheit, Geduld gegen ihren Blick und Aus- druck, Mildherzigkeit
gegen das Wunderliche an ihr zu ueben -: endlich kommt ein Augenblick,
wo wir ihrer gewohnt sind, wo wir sie erwarten, wo wir ahnen, dass
sie uns fehlen wuerde, wenn sie fehlte; und nun wirkt sie ihren Zwang
und Zauber fort und fort und endet nicht eher, als bis wir ihre
demuetigen und entzueckten Liebhaber geworden sind, die nichts Bes-
seres von der Welt mehr wollen als sie und wieder sie.
- So geht es uns aber nicht nur mit der Musik: ge- rade so haben
wir alle Dinge, die wir jetzt lieben, lie- ben gelernt. Wir werden
schliesslich immer fuer unsern guten Willen, unsere Geduld, Billigkeit,
Sanftmuetig- keit gegen das Fremde belohnt, indem das Fremde langsam
seinen Schleier abwirft und sich als neue un- saegliche Schoenheit
darstellt -: es ist sein Dank fuer unsre Gastfreundschaft. Auch wer
sich selber liebt, wird es auf diesem Wege gelernt haben: es gibt
kei- nen anderen Weg. Auch die Liebe muss man lernen.
Friedrich Nietzsche: Werke und Briefe: Viertes Buch. Sanctus Januarius,
S. 62. Digitale Bibliothek Band 31: Nietzsche, S. 6148 C. Hanser
Verlag
English translation based on Walter Kaufmann.
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:42:09 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Berlioz's Operas
Ray Bayles wrote:
>I have a huge book that my radio station staff gave me a couple of years
>ago that claims to have the librettos of all operas still performed. I
>suspect it is available on Amazon. I know there are copies of many of the
>most popular librettos in pocket form, because I have some, but I don't see
>them listed any longer in book sites. Perhaps they are available in the
>used book market. The Opera Guild in New York sold me the ones I have, and
>I see others advertised from time to time in Opera magazine.
I remember when I was growing up on New York's upper West Side a store
on Hamilton Place near 144th Street called Reich and Schrift. I think it
was an old style stationery store (not the corner store "candy store" w/ a
newspaper stand, comic books, and school notebooks) but one that sold India
ink, drafting equipment, etc. It also sold librettos from just about every
opera. They had the size and shape of comic books and cost 25 cents w/
texts in English and the original language. The list on the last few pages
of other available operas was impressive. I got to learn the titles of
operas I was never to encounter again. One called *The Bells of Cornwall,
or the Chimes of Normandy* sticks in my mind.
wm
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 01:23:28 -0500
From: Doug Fields <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Classical Music at the Crossroads
Deryk Barker ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Donald Satz ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>
>>... singing voices are now considered among the best ever. Charlotte
>>Church has a reputation all out of proportion to her current talents and
>>skills.
>
>I happened to (accidentally) catch her on some tv "special" the other
>night. Her voice - such as it was - seems to be deteriorating already....
What voice? It's definitely deteriorating, as you say, but then again,
there was never much there to begin with!
Doug Fields
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:57:42 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Strauss' Men - Are They Mensch?
Listening to the Met's excellent production of "Die Frau ohne Schatten"
(I still don't like Schnaut, never will...:), I went on a very pleasant
stroll in Memory Lane and got out remnants of the great SF productions
(Bohm-Rysanek!) to listen to after the broadcast is finished.
As back in the 'Seventies, once again I am struck by the lopsided gender
portrayal in the opera - could the Emperor be Strauss himself, vis a vis
his better (certainly stronger) half in real life? He goes off hunting at
the beginning and turns up at the end, somewhat petrified, completely at
the mercy of the Empress and the various powers around. In all opera,
is there a more passive character? Barak, too, is somewhat of a schmuck,
albeit a nice one (the Emperor kills animals, Barak saves his ass from
carrying the burden) - everything in the work really depends on the three
women. (And let's not even think of the brothers.)
Of course, one should not get involved in the story too much, not *this*
story anyway. You can get a great deal out of the text of "Rosenkavalier,"
even of "Arabella," but besides Laura Huxley's institution for the
Ungeboren, not too many folk can benefit from paying attention to anything
but this incredible music.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:24:41 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Naxos Historical Edition in USA
Eric Kisch wrote:
>Harold Verdun writes:
>
>>The Don Giovanni features Ezio Pinza and Alexander Kipnis as well as Bidu
>>Sayao. I would imagine if the sound does not emaciate the performances
>>they should be quite stunning.
>
>Stunning ain't the word. This performance will make everything else you
>ever hear totally inadequate. ...
I'll probably get it when I next purchase some CDs. Your description
sounds like my impression of the Fritz Busch Glyndebourne *Don Giovanni*
of the mid 1930s, which has been recorded surprisingly well, first on LP
and later on CD. If you're familiar with it, how would you compare the
performances?
I just checked for this on the Naxos Web site and it is listed as not
available in the USA. This might be because it's a Metropolitan Opera
performance, and the Met has been jealously guarding recordings of their
performances, preferring to sell them on their own. I used to get some
of their Wagner performances on what may have been a grey market at
Washington's Serenade Record Shop, which I believe has closed down.
wm
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:32:38 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Visualization of Music
I have vivid memories of the imagery that I created through listening
to the Sorcerer's Apprentice and Pictures at an Exhibition when I was a
youngster. There were no video tapes or DVD medium back then. You merely
listened, felt, and came up with self-created images based on the listening
experience.
Times have changed greatly since then. Music now comes with the visual
imagery on the screen. There is no chance that self-created imagery can
compete with this phenomenon, and my perspective is that the enrichment of
the listener is reduced through the new technology.
Thinking about this matter, I now have a better grasp on why I get
little out of attending live musical performances. I don't want to see
the conductor, the musicians, and their interaction; I want to hear and
feel these features and also develop my own sense of imagery and emotional
content based on the pure experience of listening. I should point out that
excepting for the female form, I am not a visual person.
As an example, if ten people listen quietly to any prelude or fugue from
the Shostakovich Opus 87 piano set, there will likely be ten different
sets of images created. However, have these ten individuals watch a music
video of the music in question and there will only be one resulting set of
images, the one created by what's presented on the screen. I consider this
a drawback to enrichment and the successful personalization of music.
That's my take on this aspect of current technology as it relates to music,
and it covers all types of music. Any other opinions?
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 03:47:43 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Zemlinsky String Quartets, Part 1
Alexander von Zemlinsky, born in 1875, is considered second-tier compared
to composers such as Schoenberg, Mahler, and Strauss. Although that
assessment may be on target, Zemlinsky's music is still stirring, gorgeous,
and worthy of investigation. He wrote in a number of genres and is likely
best known for his vocal compositions.
Zemlinsky's four string quartets provide a microcosm of his start as a
Brahmsian, the steps taken toward Schoenberg's direction, and his eventual
rejection of 'modernist' music. Each of the string quartets also displays
the strong sensuality which pervades Zemlinsky's music.
In addition to offering some commentary about the four string quartets, I
will be giving my opinions of these recordings of the works:
Artis Quartet-Wien
Nimbus 5563(nos. 1 & 2)
Nimbus 5604(nos. 3 & 4)
Recorded 1997/98
Corda Quartet
Nos. 1,3,4
Stradivarius 33564
Recorded 1998
Prazak Quartet
Nos. 1 & 4
Praga 250107
Recorded 1997/98
Schonberg Quartet
Nos. 2 & 3
Koch/Schwann 310118
Recorded 1990
String Quartet No. 1 in A major, Opus 4 - Composed in 1896, Zemlinsky's
first string quartet is very much Brahmsian in construction and
inspiration. The first movement, Allegro con fuoco, well reveals the
connection with its syncopated lines, orchestral-type swells, and gorgeous
phrasing. Actually, I could easily believe that Brahms wrote the music.
The Prazak, Corda, and Artis-Wien Quartets all perform lovingly and with
total precision. The Prazak are the most romantic and big-boned of the
three; Brahms is most evident in this performance. The Corda cut down
some on the romantic element and provide a more comforting reading that
the Prazak.
The Artis-Wien Quartet takes the most distinctive route. The group is
significantly faster than the other two and thereby injects greater urgency
into the music. Although Brahms hardly disappears in the performance, the
Artis uses every viable moment to modernize the piece and present an eerie
atmosphere. Further, the Artis highlights the sensual elements much more
effectively than its rival versions. Although the Prazak and Corda
Quartets give highly rewarding readings of the first movement, it is the
Artis-Wien Quartet which conveys the music's special qualities.
The second movement is a relatively short Allegretto in the four minute
range. The music comes in two sections: a delicate and playful scherzo
followed by a increasingly menacing and fierce presto initiated by a
conversation between cello and viola. The Allegretto also has one of the
most tender, hushed, and beautiful endings I've ever heard. Getting back
to the scherzo, it does have a sinister element below the music's surface
which makes for a very interesting listening experience.
The Artis-Wien Quartet is again the quickest of the three versions and the
most rewarding. The group conveys more playfulness in the scherzo, more
fury in the presto, and fully captures the essence of the conclusion. This
is not just a matter of speed having the advantage. The Artis is showing
itself to be a group which digs deeply into every phrase to communicate
the real Zemlinsky; they heighten contrast and diversity at every turn.
Perhaps most important, they never miss the opportunity to bring out
Zemlinsky's sexual urges which hang like a mist over the music.
The slow third movement is titled "Breit und kraftig" which corresponds
to 'broad and intense'. The movement opens in a wonderfully serene and
tender fashion with gorgeous phrasing which magically trails off into the
air. Then, the intensity heats up considerably but subsides toward the
conclusion of the movement.
All three versions of the third movement are excellent. This time, the
Artis uses a tempo similar to the other two versions, and there is very
little to choose among them to determine a preference. The Corda Quartet
probably is the most effective in the more tender passages, but intonation
is not quite perfect when the drama intensifies.
The final movement of Opus 4 is where Zemlinsky really lets his hair
down and comes up with a very exciting, exuberant, and slashing Vivace
which is contrasted with some very tender and subtle passages. The Artis
Quartet-Wien returns to providing the quickest tempo among the three
versions, and the group delivers one knock-down and exciting performance
filled with strong slashes and a few glimpses of the future Zemlinsky.
The Prazak Quartet just doesn't convey that last ounce of excitement and
urgency. The Corda Quartet performance is largely missing in action. Too
slow and sedate, the group takes all the tension out of the music. I must
admit that the subtle passages are stunningly performed, but the true heart
of the music is absent.
Summary for Quartet No.1 in A major, Opus 4 - This Brahmsian-type creation
can stand tall next to the string quartets of Brahms. As the Artis
Quartet-Wien clearly shows, the work is much more than a Brahms look-alike.
The group, without disregarding the connection to Brahms, gives the music
its own identity. They also provide more diversity of expression than the
other two versions. In short, through their advocacy, I feel that I'm
listening to a masterpiece.
Excepting for the last movement, I'd place the Prazak and Corda Quartets
on the same level of excellence. The Prazak highlights the debt to Brahm
, and that's a fine way to go. The Corda Quartet is more comforting than
the Prazak and really shines in the tender moments. However, the group's
Vivace is not satisfying as they put the lid on any excitement, slashing,
or tension. I just can't imagine what the group was thinking when it
decided to forego these characteristics of the music.
Part 2 will cover Zemlinsky's 2nd String Quartet which is worlds apart
from the 1st Quartet. Goodbye to Brahms, hello to fingernails on the
chalkboard. Stay tuned.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:55:05 +0000
From: David Harbin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Your 2001 Discoveries
Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
Please share your 5 top CD 'finds' in the last year. They can include any
CD released in any year provided you discovered them for yourself in 2001.
I shall start the ball rolling:
1. Bach cantatas including 51, 82 and 199 - Argenta/Ensemble
Sonnarie/Huggett(Virgin Veritas Double) Lovely imtimate and floating
sound from both soloist and players. 51 is especially moving.
2. Strauss Sinfonia Domestica - Furtwangler/BPO - live 1944 (DG).
Surprisingly rich sound conveying the aristocratic thrust and depth of
the BPO. You can hear the hall, the old Philharmonie, which was destroyed
by Allied bombing that evening. Furtwangler combines excitement with a
firm grasp on structure.
3. Schoenburg Gurreleider - Sinopoli/Staatskapelle Dresden (Teldec)
Slightly weird, searching conducting is not inappropriate to the work.
Voigt a bit metalic but excellent soloists and sound.
4. Tippett Concerto for Double String Orchestra etc - Andrew Davis
BBCSO (Warner Apex) A cheap rerelease that I would have paid full whack
for. Stunning sound and playing. Some beautiful counterpoint.
5. Berlioz Les Nuits D'Ete - Bailleys/Herreweghe (Harmonia Mundi)
Ravishing singing. Incredible colour in Bailleys voice beautully
supported by Herreweghe and his period band.
Kind regards,
David Harbin
Nottingham, UK
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:24:11 -0200
From: Edson Tadeu Ortolan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
90 years of "Pierrot Lunaire" (Arnold Schoenberg)!!!
Any good recording (CD and/or DVD)?
Edson Tadeu Ortolan
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:07:56 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Thank you for the list! I should have remembered Stanford; in fact I
think I've already read at least one article commemorating his anniversary.
Setting aside his orchestral music, his church music is a cornerstone of
the Anglican cathedral music repertoire. I've lost count of the times I've
done one of his canticle settings or his anthem 'Beati quorum via'. And
I've used the solo from his Magnificat in G as an audition piece.
I've also performed music by de Magalhaes, Lawes and Allegri, whom I see
are also on the list. But I'm still wondering whether there is any other
year in the next half century likely to be as barren as this one.
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 01:08:33 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bach Organ Works
Bruno Galeron writes concerning Helmut Walcha's complete Bach set:
>However, a new reissue would be welcome. The more recent box sets
>from DG are much smaller and... cheaper.
Here's some good news. The Walcha set has been reissued in those much
smaller DG box sets. I first noticed it while browsing the "New Release"
section of a recent magazine. Then, I subsequently saw the set at the
local Borders here in Albuquerque. If it's in Albuquerque, it must be
everywhere.
>Any thoughts about Andre Isoir?
Very fine Bach set, although I prefer a more stern and articulated
approach. That's just subjective preference. Go for it, but do give
Walcha higher priority.
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:40:48 -0800
From: David Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bach Organ Works
Discussing Bach organ works, Bruno Galeron wrote:
>I heard many good things regarding Andre Isoir and his complete recordings
>(on Calliope).
I presume he means the label, not the instrument. Although hearing Bach
played on a calliope might be fun. (Would the performer wear a clown
outfit?) (Would Don Satz give it a favorable review?)
Dave Wolf [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:28:42 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Michael Cooper wrote:
>>I always get a kick out of having whatever nonclassical music enthusiast
>>I am riding in the car with guess who the composer is when this piece
>>comes on the radio. (I wait until the third variation begins of course.)
What city/country do you live in that has a radio station that plays
Beethoven's last piano sonata so frequently? I'd like to move there.
Mike
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:35:33 +0000
From: Stephen Mulraney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I have the same impression listening to variation #3 of the last movement
>of op111...it miraculously anticipates jazz, in a transcedental manner.
>But I've never had the opportunity to read anything about it. I know it
>has to do with the snycopated rythm, but is that all? Anyhow, that's one
>of the most sublime moments in the history of western music.
Yes, it's astonishingly beautiful. To my mind it gives a sort of a 'sub
specie aeternitas' or suspension of time feeling to the music, although
quite unlike that achieved by e.g. Messiaen in 'Regard du Pere' (20
regards, No.1), Taverner in many works, or by Orff in the evocation
of eternity at the end 'De temporum fine comoedia' (at 7 minutes this
evocation is his longest instrumental piece! Has anyone else heard this
work?).
It's different in not being a gentle or calm suspension of time, but
a passionate emotion 'frozen' yet still pushing forwards. I don't think
I've ever heard anything quite like it.
Stephen Mulraney
now listening: 'Planctus ante nescia', Carmina Burana Vol. I, Picket.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:39:25 -0000
From: Martin Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Bill H. writes, a propos of musical palindromes:
>Sure, there's the Minuet from Haydn's Symphony #47 (IIRC), from which the
>entire symphony is nicknamed "The Palindrome".
That's why in Robert Simpson's (piano) Variations and Fugue on a Theme of
Haydn (the theme being the minuet Bill mentions) the variations are also
palindromic. When Bob Simpson took up this work (from the late 40s) again
in 1982 (these dates are from memory), expanding it into his Ninth String
Quartet, which takes the form of 32 variations (of that same theme) and
fugue, the variations are again palindromic (each half repeated) - with the
further complication that some of the variations overlap. And none of the
reviewers at the first performance of Simpson's Second Symphony noticed
that the second movement is palindromic -- and I didn't either until he
told me! He could be gruffly dismissive of his own work and said of his
work with palindromes: "Oh, it's not difficult: you just think of a bit
of music and then copy it out again backwards". And in case anyone thinks
it must be a purely intellectual endeavour, the Ninth Quartet packs a
phenomenal emotion punch - it has much moved me on occasion.
Martin Anderson
Toccata Press
www.drakeint.co.uk/toccata-press
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 01:16:31 +0100
From: Henny van der Groep <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
You will find palindromes in Berg's Wozzeck and the 4th String Quartet of
Bartok.
Henny
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:24:57 -0200
From: Edson Tadeu Ortolan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
There is a beautiful music of Luigi Nono (1924-1990): "Incontri" for
orchestra (1954/5).
("incontri" in italian can be "meetings, encounters, impacts, clashes or
shocks")
Edson Tadeu Ortolan
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 17:59:38 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
The interlude which separates the two scenes of Act II of _Lulu_ is a
musical palindrome (listen out for a little flourish on the piano which
immediately precedes the midpoint). This interlude also forms part of
the Lulu Suite. (For those of you following the other thread, the Suite
contains plenty of atonal melody, always assuming you don't define 'melody'
in such a way that atonal music is automatically excluded).
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:55:17 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
[log in to unmask] writes:
>I chose Mozart, but I haven't started with him myself. My route of
>most listened composers periods has been: 1-Tchaikovski, 2-Beethoven,
>3-Bach, 4-Brahms. Could anyone trace a similar chronology of their
>musical story?
I started listening to Classical Music when I was in 8th Grade. Note
that I started with Tchaikovsky and went to Beethoven, just like David
Rothstein. My path from 8th grade through High School was something like
this:
Tchaikovsky (1812 Overture, Capriccia Italien, Marche Slav),
then..
Beethoven Symphonies, Rachmoninoff (Isle of the Dead), Brahms (Symphonies
and Hungarian Dances)
then..
Stravinsky (Rite of Spring), R. Strauss (Zarathustra & Ein Heldenlaben)
then..
Wagner (Overtures and orchestral exerpts)
then..
Bruckner (Symphonies 4 & 8)
then..
Mahler (Complete Symphonies with Solti -- I got the set for Christmas)
then..
Berg (Three Pieces for Orchestra and Altenberg Lieder)
After that I lost track. Somewhere in there I started listening to Mozart
(symphonies), Berlioz (overtures and Symphony Fanstastique), Debussy,
Ravel, Bach, Vaughn Williams, and Delius.
I was fortunate in having an older friend who was very knowledgeble about
Classical Music.
Mike
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:13:16 -0500
From: Santu De Silva <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
Marcelo Ramos Araujo asks:
>My route of most listened composers periods has been: 1-Tchaikovski,
>2-Beethoven, 3-Bach, 4-Brahms. Could anyone trace a similar chronology
>of their musical story?
My interest in classical music began with the Book-of-the-Month Club music
appreciation series, and it went like this:
Wagner Overtures--Tannhauser, Meistersinger;
Mendelssohn violin concerto;
Beethoven 5th symphony.
Then I got interested in church music, and it was Bach, Bach, Bach
Then I heard the A major piano concerto of Mozart, No 23, K488, and the Ave
Verum Corpus, and the Requiem, and it was Mozart Mozart Mozart for a while.
Then I heard the Brandenburgs and the Handel Water Music, and it was Handel
Bach Handel Bach.
Then I heard some British renaisance stuff, recorders, lutes, viols, etc,
and it was Dowland, Byrd, Gibbons, Arne.
Then I heard some other Bach concertos, and it was B, B, B, again.
Then I heard the Siegfried Idyll, and the Prelude to Lohengrin, and guess
what happened . . .
Then I heard the Brahms violin concerto and Symph # 1 . . .
I can just see it all, as if it were yesterday . . .
Arch
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:55:28 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
Marcelo Ramos Araujo wrote:
>when I try to introduce someone to the world of classical music I favor
>one composer over all the others, simply because I started loving music
>this way...but I'm not sure if this is the best method in a course. Of
>course, I don't deprive my 'students' of knowing other composers:I show
>them everything but I strongly recommend to focus on only one.
>
>I chose Mozart, but I haven't started with him myself. My route of
>most listened composers periods has been: 1-Tchaikovski, 2-Beethoven,
>3-Bach,4-Brahms. Could anyone trace a similar chronology of their musical
>story?
No, I can't. There was and is no route, only chance and pleasure.
Sometimes I introduce people to listen to some pieces and I tell them why
I love it. Either the spark of my pleasure will catch or not. I don't
like to TEACH people to love classical music because I am a teacher as a
profession - and enough is enough (and you can't teach someone to love
music, can you?).
Robert
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:06:13 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood wrote:
>point: what is the value of "music" in which it makes no discernable
>difference whether or not a cellist is performing the score or some
>finger exercises?
First of all, such music simply does not exist. Jocelyn's making it up.
Any piece, no matter how chaotic, cacophanous, dissonant, atonal, horrible,
whatever, is not the same piece if some hack is doing finger exercises and
feeling himself smug and superiour. The only possibility would be some
aleatoric piece where everyone plays different stuff anyway, but even then
if the musician was screwing around instead of taking it seriously it is a
professional breach.
It was imported strongly to me by my most important teacher that our
Prime Directive as musicians is to faithfully interpret and execute
whatever notes happen to be in front of us, whether we like them or not.
This is very hard to do. For a musician to betray that Prime Directive
is, to this musician anyway, a grave breach, and I agree, Jocelyn does
considerable damage to an already-wobbly case by citing this musician as
exemplary.
Unfortunately, many such musicians exist. It's always bothered me
that huge numbers of classical musicians have little or no intellectual
interest in classical music. The average music-lover/CD-collector on this
list has vastly superiour knowlege of the art than a large percentage of
the musicians he or she listens to. Readers perhaps would be surprised
to flip through the CD collections of most of my musician friends. No
CM there, except works which perhaps they have studied at one time,
or recorded themselves. I think there is no art form where the main
protagonists are so ignorant of the very art they practice.
>I think it's an excellent way of showing "the emperor
>has no clothes".
That's not in a musician's job description. We're like journalists, we
report the notes and leave it to others to make commentary.
>Can one really take seriously the judgement of a competition for new
>compositions in which a cat's plunking the keys wins a prize??
Depends on the competition. As chance-music it's actually kind of a cool
idea. Besides, until I am shown a source for this, I remain convinced that
said competition is a figment of kitchen-table chats in Culver City.
>Need I point out that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Shostakovich would- I
>suppose- have had a less favorable assessment of the musicality of the
>cat's ramblings.
Would have to depend on the talent of the individual cat, one supposes.
Dave Runnion
Mallorca, Spain
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:26:46 -0500
From: Mimi Ezust <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele wrote:
>What does it mean, "understand the music"?
When we look at something completely strange to us, we can't classify it,
organize it, interpret it. It often just looks like undifferentiated mush.
But as we stare at it, we (involuntarily) begin to form associations and
FORCE it to become organized. We are born with built-in organizational
abilities. Watching a photograph being developed is a good analogy to this
gradual organization ... at some point the unrecognizable becomes clear,
and that point of recognition will be very different for the photographer
and the random person standing beside her.
The same things happens in experiments with rhythm. If there are no strong
and weak beats in strings of beats heard in experiments, those beats are
interpreted as having "rhythm" anyway. There seems to be an innate need
to organize these equal sounds into measures or stressed and unstressed
meters.
I recommend the books of Leonard Meyers that deal with some of the problems
of perception of music.
Again and again, people here have said about various works, "it took me a
long time to understand this piece."
Part of understanding is having the ability to sense the organization
already present in the work. Are you able to recognize patterns? Hear
certain parts of the work returning? Identify rhythmic sections? Tell when
you are about to come to a breathing place? Notice that an important change
has happened? Has the phrase started the same way it did before, but has
that melody suddenly gone to a different place? Is there a chord that
replaced the one that you heard the last time? How do you feel about it?
All of these things reveal themselves gradually. The more experience you
have with classical music and the idioms of the period or and the composer,
the easier you will find the getting-acquainted phase of listening.
Sure, some pieces are Love-at-first-hearing ... but even more of them
require careful concentration before they reveal their charms.
Eventually, you find that anticipating certain events in the music will
be very pleasant, and being fooled when the expected events are changed
slightly will be even more pleasant.
At that point, your understanding is excellent. And it will get even
better.
Some music takes longer to get used to not only because it might be more
complex, but also because your own musical experience prior to listening
to it has been limited.
If I hear a "brand new" piece by Vivaldi I can absorb it almost immediately
because I'm so familiar with the way Vivaldi generally goes... but I can
still enjoy it as a novel work, because Vivaldi, the genius, cannot always
be second- guessed.
When (decades ago) I was working on a string quartet by Fine, however,
all of us had to work very hard to "hear" it at first. After a half dozen
readings, we all were starting to hum parts of it, anticipate sections,
remember who played with who, what went where, and we were well on the way
to understanding it even though performance was still months off in the
future.
Some pieces seem impossible to understand at first. That's why reading
scores or even reading ONE line of music is a help to me. I find I can
hear new music even better when I'm watching the notes. If I can't parse
all of the notes at first, I can at least help myself by reading the
rhythms as they rush by.
It is unfortunate that we have such a limited vocabulary ... "understand"
generally refers to the meanings of other words, comprehension in reading,
and so forth. But musical understanding is a very different thing. It takes
in knowledge based on much musical listening experience. It can not always
be explained in technical terms... and technical terms cannot begin to
explain the magic that happens when we finally start to love a piece of
music and make it our own.
Mimi Ezust
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:29:37 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Len Fehskens replies to me:
>>The only way I can tell if someone understands an atonal score is if they
>>say something meaningful about it, besides whether they like it or not.
>
>There's an awful lot of tonal music that I won't claim to "understand"
>or about which I could say anything "meaningful". I just enjoy it.
Great! More power to you! What that indicates to me is that the music
isn't just a stream of undifferentiated notes, because you'd probably be
bored with that.
>I think some of the dislike of this music may be rooted in the sense that
>it entails rather more intellectualization than more "comfortable" genres.
Not necessarily. I loved Schoenberg's piano concerto when I first heard it
without 1) knowing who wrote it; 2) having any idea what dodecaphonic music
was about; or 3) with a score. I enjoyed it as I enjoyed Schumann's piano
concerto. I can safely say I submitted the work to no conscious
intellectualization whatsoever.
>Can you be more specific about what you consider evidence of
>"understanding" or what you consider to be a "meaningful" comment?
I've dealt with this, I think, in another post in this thread. Look for
something about the Faure Requiem.
I don't believe technical knowledge is the end-all of music; indeed, some
of the most effective musical moments I know are rather small potatoes,
technically. I wouldn't know what "technical" explanation would mean
applied to a tune like "Shenandoah" or what it would tell you. However,
that melody seems beautiful, shapely, it varies pitches over much the same
rhythm. It's made up of three long spans. I haven't said anything
technical or intellectual. I've simply described what everyone hears
(except for the editorial comments of "beautiful" and "shapely"). I could
think it absolutely horrendous, teeth-on-edge oversweet, and still come up
with the same description. That means that at some level I understand what
it is *in itself,* without reference to me and my likes and dislikes. The
music presents itself to me in a comprehensible form.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:28:36 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood writes:
>Similarly, with, say rap music, I find nothing there other than a
>driving rhythm and an incessant repetition of the banal. I don't
>need to hear the latest dreck from the rap industry to know I am
>missing nothing of value.
Rap music 'speaks' to its intended audience; that's why it's lasted so
many years. However, Don Satz and Laurence Sherwood are not part of the
intended audience.
Just a few days ago, my wife and I were surfing the TV and we landed on
a music video from a white rapper named "Kid Rock". Yes, it was immature
and entirely repetitive. Still, I was sort of mesmorized by it. The
singer's brashness and anti-social demeanor combined with the absolute
power of Rock had me temporarily hooked. It was much more enjoyable than
listening to many well-known classical works which leave me flat. When
the video was over, I asked my wife what she thought. Her reply was
succinct - "It stinks". She's been listening a lot to a CD I bought for
her; it's the soundtrack to an Appalachian movie called "Songcatcher".
The music is fine, but I would rather listen to "Kid Rock". I think Bach
and particularly Beethoven would have liked him also. Actually, Beethoven
could have been the artist who would lift Rap to levels appreciated by
Laurence.
Forever Young,
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:46:18 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele wrote:
>David Runnion <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>It also displays an astounding lack of professionalism on the part of
>>that musician and were I the conductor of that ensemble I'd fire him on
>>the spot.
>
>Nonsence. It displays something else, and that is an astounding lack of
>professionalism on the part of the composer in question.
Nonsence yourself! That's simply not true, and it is also beside the
point. Read my other post, and I'll repeat it here: A professional
musician's job is to play the notes, play them well, and convey as best
you can the intention of the composer.
>And if it was so that the musicians fall into "civil disorder", which
>Jocelyn Wang's description sounds as an example of, it is probably because
>the musicians don't respect their leader, i.e. the conductor And why?
>Becuase he gives them work they see no meaning in performing, and therefore
>no joy in doing so.
More nonsence. He hires them to play what he tells them to play. They
don't like it, tough cookies, it's the player's problem, not the
conductor's.
>Perhaps it comes out as being bad because the performers don't know how to
>play it?
I saw Janos Starker pillory a young student one time in a master class.
Kid played the first movement of the Carter Sonata, and played it extremely
badly. That sonata in the wrong hands can be lethal. But what Starker
was angry about was that the kid was doing a disservice to the very music
he wanted to play. You see, many times people hear bad performances
of "modern" music, and come away with the impression that new music is
scratchy, squeaky, out-of-tune, indeed cacaphonous, when the truth may be
it's just horrendous playing. In my experience as player and audience
member, a difficult work even like the Carter, played convincingly,
virtuosically and with a fine sound, will almost always win over even the
most unsophisticated audience. Starker's point was that people already
distrust atonal music; to play it badly just makes people dislike it more,
for the wrong reasons.
>But they are just educated musicians, we can't demand that they
>shall understand it as well as most of the audience.
On the contrary, they should understand it better, since they are in a
position to show or introduce the work to the audience. Unfortunately
that's often not the case.
>If that is true or not I can't check and I don't care to do. This is
>just a rotten circumscriptional personal attack on Jocelyn Wang.
Perhaps I broke a rule there, I apologize for the bad form. Actually,
Jocelyn and I are in close agreement on other issues, such as:||'s.
>"If you can't come up with new things, you have no imagination,
>and therefore you are stupid, and what you say, to hell with that.
Um, well, you said it, not I...but seriously, one does wait for arguments
based on a little more than these stories and blanket statements that
declare "I don't like it so it's bad."
>>Who's surprised? People have been rejecting new ideas in music for
>>centuries now.
>
>Yes. Who is surprised? ...when the magicians tell the people about the
>trick instead of showing them?
It's surprising to me that people just want to see the same trick over and
over and over again and say that other clever, but a little scary tricks
are awful.
Dave Runnion
http://mp3.com/TRAMUNTANA
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:34:58 EST
From: Elle Hogan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
[log in to unmask] writes:
>or all our work is 90% bad, I forget how it goes..).
Crap. It's almost all crap. (I don't remember how it goes either, but I
remember the word *crap* first and foremost.)
And that, my friend, is the real crap.
Anyone who has made some *crap* art will tell ya that there is some
extraordinary thing going on during the making. If we, as listeners, don't
get to that place, is that our fault? Is tha the *crap* composer's fault?
Who really cares whose fault?
It's a plain old joy to hear what you and you and you are doing. I'll never
be too old to enjoy *the latest crap*.
Big Fat Regards,
Ellen
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 07:00:18 EST
From: Elle Hogan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
[log in to unmask] writes:
>And secondly, since when is it the responsibility of the artist to
>convince more people to wear pearl necklaces?
Oh, bless you. Thank you.
Let the artists create. Let the marketeers market.
Equal opportunity employment.
Let's make the art we *have* to make and let *society* make of it what it
will.
cheers,
Ellen
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:18:28 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Donald Satz wrote:
>This is my last posting on this thread, and I'd like to sum up my views
>on atonal music and the responses to it:
>
>However, through the centuries, there have been composers whose works were
>only well received after their death.
I found this post of yours, as well as those by others on both (all?) sides
of this disputes refreshing and sensible, but question this comment.
I can't think of any composer well received after his death who wasn't
recognized during his lifetime. Needless to say, I don't know of all
of them, but of the ones I know of (the Bachs, Handel, Mozart, Haydn,
Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak, Bruckner, Mahler, Smetana,
Tchaikowsky, Wagner, Stravinsky, Prokoffiev, Shostakovich, Bartok, Berg,
Webern, Schoenberg, Debussy, Ravel, Verdi, Puccini, Gershwin, Duke
Ellington, Messiaen, les Six, Schnittke, Ives, Copeland, Harris, and I'll
stop now because I don't want to show off too much and I'll inevitably
leave somebody out) were recognized, if not lionized, during their
lifetime.
Walter Meyer
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:03:46 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Len Fehnskens replies to Steve Schwartz:
>Steve Schwartz writes:
>
>>I haven't seen most of the scores of Webern and Schoenberg.
>
>Please demonstrate your understanding of their music.
>
>>I happen to like some Babbitt.
>
>Meaningless. Please say something meaningful.
I have never seen anyone respond to a post in which someone has said
something like "I happen to like some Faure" in this sort of manner.
I see no reason why it is any different with Babbitt.
While there are various degrees of understanding, ranging from just
'liking' a work to that gained from years of studying the score and being
involved in performances, I do not think it right to trivialize the fact
that someone just 'likes' a composition they have heard. I like many
compositions I have never seen the score of. That doesn't make the fact
that I 'like' them in any way meaningless - irrespective of whether that
may be Brahms or Babbitt.
>There's an awful lot of tonal music that I won't claim to "understand"
>or about which I could say anything "meaningful". I just enjoy it.
To be able to say "I just enjoy it", is already a highly meaningful
statement about the music, even if does not display the sort of
understanding that in-depth study may yield. It is certainly infinitely
more meaningful than "this is mindless cacophony". I listened to Nono's
"Prometheus" last night. I have never seen the score, I don't know how the
music 'works' in any analytical sense: I just enjoy it.
Nothing meaningless about that.
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:13:34 +0000
From: Stephen Mulraney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Steve Schwartz replies to Mats Norrman replying to Margaret Mikulska:
>
>>>Why don't you go to the faculty of mathematics at your university? There
>>>you find lots of potential music by Boulez (though these one is in the
>>>faculty where it should be).
>>
>>As someone who has studied both music and mathematics, I don't really
>>understand why difficult music is labeled mathematical, unless most people
>>find mathematics as difficult as the music.
Well as a mathematician (in training) I have often come across this
prejustice too. I suppose it arises because most non-mathematicians don't
really know what mathematics involves. It's not hard to see why - I've
often looked at the name of a course I'd be studying in a year or two's
time and been unable to tell what it involved. You only really recognise
an area of mathematics when you've understood it a bit, and mathematics
usually doesn't lend itself to explanation in non-mathematical terms ;).
Two anecdotes - the first illustrating this curious belief about
mathematics, the second being more of a counterexample:
Once visiting a composer who impressed me greatly by his omnivorous
mind and immense curiousity into many areas - literature, music, science,
mathematics, culture, everything he lay his eyes on or pointed his ears
to - a man who seems to be quite a polymath, he told me he had read a
biography of Paul Erdos - one of the most prolific mathematicians who ever
lived, and one who worked on mathematics for almost every moment of his
adult life - and we talked about the man for a while. But at the end of
the conversation I realised that although he had a fairly good appreciation
of what mathematics might involve, and how it went about its business, he
seemed to think that it was the study of numbers. Which it is to some
extent - about the same extent that music is about keyboard scales. ;)
On the other hand I remember my girlfriend of the time, a composer, and
I talking about a piece of music that would involve fibonacci numbers
as a structural principle (not as a 'theme' - ideally the listener would
have had no clue of this underlying level). My brain kept on turning up
memories of many interesting properties and interrelations between these
numbers and their mathematical associates, and she worked on digesting
them musically. On the other hand when I tried my hand at what she was
doing I would tend to oversystemise everything. Effectively I was doing
mathematics with musical material, while she was making music with
mathematics, not because it was mathematics, but because it was part of her
experience. In the same way the other evening I mentioned to her something
about a touching example of piety I had observed as a child, and she sensed
a musical idea in it.
Stephen Mulraney
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:22:12 +0000
From: Stephen Mulraney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Stephen Mulraney <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Oops, there was a missing 'a' in a very crucial place ;) - Second last
paragraph
>I don't think your views on atonality are offensive, even if I don't hold
>same opinion. I don't stick to some dogma of the superiority of tonal
>music.
should be '...superiority of atonal music...'!
Stephen Mulraney
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:17:09 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>I was interested to note that Hummel was born in Bratislava, once also
>known as Pressburg. Musica Bona's website has Mahler as a Czech composer
>because he was born there. By this logic, should we now consider Hummel
>to be a Slovakian composer?
As Richard Pennycuick certainly knows (because his posting has a
knowing twinkle to it) both composers were born unde rthe Dual Monarchy,
or if you wish the Habsburg Empire. The logic that this imposes is that
Mahler was born an Austrian, because Bohemia was part of it, and Hummel
was a Hungarian, because Bratislava was/is the capital of Slovakia, and
though called that by Slovaks, was then a part of the Hungarian kingdom,
and called Pozsony by Hungarians, I believe. The Germans called
Pozsony/Bratislava Pressburg. (as the Hungarians, for their part,
called Vienna Becs, while the Austrians called Buda Ofen).
Denis Fodor
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:17:18 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
"Richard A. Ujvary" writes, about Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, I
believe, though he doesn't say so explicitly or identify his interlocutor:
>What strikes me is that if many classical music listeners like this work
>which is close to "atonality" why is there such gnashing of teeth with
>other works farther along on the atonal scale?
Because they step across the line bullwhipped into the Puszta sand.
Denis Fodor
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:16:05 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mike Leghorn ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>... (Btw, I think the beginning of Beethoven's 9th sort of sounds like
>the beginning of the universe.)
And how do *you* know what the beginning of the universe sounded like?
:-)
>... I have some of Boulez's music, and I'm not sure what to think of it.
>Boulez studied under Messiaen for a while, but I don't think was influenced
>much by him.
Oh yes he was. In fact it was the fourth piece of Messiaen's Modes de
valeurs et d'intensitie which, according to the New Grove, "displays some
most important musical innovations which led to total serialism."
I'd suggest listening to Boulez's ealier works such as Le Marteau sans
maitre or Pli selon pli to hear the influence. Or listen to Messiane's
Chronochromie (1960s),
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:17:06 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition usually a most
informative and restrained
Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>, usually a most informative and
restrained lister, upbraids Jocelyn Wang:
>I called you an "ignorant" simply because your expression "atonal plague"
>doesn't leave room for any difference between Schoenberg and Stockhausen.
>That's serious. It's just like saying that Pollock and Klee are exactly
>the same.
Well, maybe--but then in reverse order: Schoeberg = Klee and Stockhausen
Pollock. The first pair was at the heart of the classical canon's loyal
opposition; the second pair were vaguely amusing charlatans. I'm talking
here, as usual, as a run-of-the mill concertgoer. And,as such aone, I
find the lucubration about atonal,dissonant, cacophonic, pretty, melodic,
harmonious--well, I find it defensive, rather than explicatory. Much ado
about a commonplace. When it comes to the sound of either Schoenberg (or
a great edeal of him) and Stockhausen (all of him) I _know_ that symphony
hall audiences, or the large majority of 'em, at most abide it and
certainly don't react to it as they do to anything from Bach to Bruckner.
To be sure, there's usually an assertive minority around to provide
applause for the outre stuff, but a color temperature meter of applause,
is such existed, would surely rate the old canon as hot, and the new glitz
as cold. So it goes.
Denis Fodor
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:19:54 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Who said something have to be better just because it came after
>another?
Well, certainly neither Mike nor Steve that I recall.
>20th century avantgardism is the only artmovement in world history which
>I know of, for which Art hasn't been measured with beautiful vs. ugly.
Possibly, but why does this seem to matter more in music than elsewhere.
Is there anyone on this list who will claim that Picasso's Guernica is
anything other than ugly? Or who will deny that it is a masterpiece of
modern art?
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:49:58 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
David Runnion wrote:
>Laurence Sherwood wrote:
>
>>Need I point out that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Shostakovich would- I
>>suppose- have had a less favorable assessment of the musicality of the
>>cat's ramblings.
>
>Would have to depend on the talent of the individual cat, one supposes.
Scarlatti's cat, for instance, was very talented, and apparently
Scarlatti had a very favorable assessment of his cat's musicality ...
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:18:18 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Richard Pennycuick wrote:
>I was interested to note that Hummel was born in Bratislava, once also
>known as Pressburg. Musica Bona's website has Mahler as a Czech composer
>because he was born there. By this logic, should we now consider Hummel
>to be a Slovakian composer?
That would be really amusing, because in Hummel's times (and earlier)
Pressburg aka Pozsony (nowadays Bratislava) was a major Hungarian, not
Slovak city.
Incidentally, since Arnold Schoenberg's father came from Pressburg and
moved to Vienna, Schoenberg himself used, at least for some time, a
Hungarian passport. AFAIK, the Hungarians don't claim him as theirs...
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:34:47 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Leslie Kinton <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>If this is the level of professionalism Jocelyn's performers show, then
>shame on her for bragging about it.
Again, someone infers a point of view to me that I do not actually have.
I was not bragging about it. I was not even condoning it. I was simply
using it as an example of how atonal works tend to be so cacophonous that,
even when a player does what the above-mentioned performer did, it stands
an exellent chance of not even being noticed, a point you, for all your
rage at what he did, failed to address.
>Irrespective of one's opinion about atonal music, this is appalling
>conduct; if it were one of my students, I would roast them.
Assuming you noticed...
In an earlier post, I noted the futility of the tonal/atonal debate, in
that neither side winds up convincing the other, and that the most civil
outcome is to agree to disagree. Now, with over 50 posts on this thread
since the last lime I checked my email, I am withdrawing from this thread,
as I don't even come close to having time to even read them, let alone
respond to them.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 09:48:45 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood:
>Can one really take seriously the judgement of a competition for new
>compositions in which a cat's plunking the keys wins a prize??
Sure. Ever hear of Scarlatti's "Cat's-Paw" fugue?
Steve Schwartz
[So Scarlatti simply transcribed verbatim a cat's random walk across
the keys and that became this fugue. How remarkable. How unlike
anything I've ever read about the piece.:-) Actually, Scarlatti's
"The Cat's Fugue" K. 30 was so nicknamed by critics when it came out
because the main theme was odd-sounding, as if it may have been the
result of a cat walking on the keys. There's no evidence a cat was
actually invlved, as far as I know. -Dave]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 00:40:21 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
David Runnion replies:
>Laurence Sherwood wrote:
>
>>point: what is the value of "music" in which it makes no discernable
>>difference whether or not a cellist is performing the score or some
>>finger exercises?
>
>First of all, such music simply does not exist. Jocelyn's making it up.
>Any piece, no matter how chaotic, cacophanous, dissonant, atonal,
>horrible, whatever, is not the same piece if some hack is doing finger
>exercises and feeling himself smug and superiour. The only possibility
>would be some aleatoric piece where everyone plays different stuff
>anyway, but even then if the musician was screwing around instead of
>taking it seriously it is a professional breach.
I am no professional musician myself but I can only say that it might
be possible for any musician to add some odd notes here and there to a
composition that was being premiered, whether tonal or otherwise, without
the audience noticing. Such behaviour remains equally puerile redardless
of what the composition might be. There will always be an unfortunate
minority who take pride in themselves as graffiti 'artists', although
the majority of us might prefer to call them vandals.
>>Can one really take seriously the judgment of a competition for new
>>compositions in which a cat's plunking the keys wins a prize??
>
>Depends on the competition. As chance-music it's actually kind of
>a cool idea.
I agree, that as an aleatoric composition it no doubt deserved to win
the competition - regardless of whether the composer entered the work for
wilfully malicious reasons or not. Part of the idea of chance composition
is that it is composition which transcends the Will of the composer. I
would be delighted to have the oppurtunity to give this work a try. It's
probably better than any of the composer's intentional compositions -
especially when you consider that what intention he has is driven only by
a cowardly and malicious Will. Better that such intentional willfulness
were eliminated from his music.
I am reminded of a performance of an aleotoric work by Cage that consisted
of performers turning the tuner of several radios on stage. One night all
the stations were broadcasting the same Mozart concert and so for the whole
performance they just kept hearing Mozart. A failure perhaps? - No Cage
was just DELIGHTED. It just perfectly illustrated his idea of meaningful
coincidence (Cage gets his ideas from the I Ching, the Chinese book of
prophecies), and what more meaningful a coincidence could you have asked
for that this one!
>Unfortunately, many such musicians exist. It's always bothered me
>that huge numbers of classical musicians have little or no intellectual
>interest in classical music. The average music-lover/CD-collector
>on this list has vastly superior knowledge of the art than a large
>percentage of the musicians he or she listens to. Readers perhaps
>would be surprised to flip through the CD collections of most of
>my musician friends. No CM there, except works which perhaps
>they have studied at one time, or recorded themselves. I think there
>is no art form where the main protagonists are so ignorant of the
>very art they practice.
I think you are being too harsh on your collegues. I've met
professionals with a trumendous knowledge of their art. However I do
find it disconcerting that there are professional musicians out there who
still cannot "understand" dodecaphony. This seems scarcely conceivable
when you consider that Schoenberg died 50 years ago and that I - a
hopelessly uneducated rank amateur ignoramus - still has to be thrust
into the position of defending this sort of music against the criticism
of professional musicians to whose ear it still sounds like the old
cacophany that first presented itself to me when I first heard encountered
this music years ago. I'd liked the Beethoven 5th and the 'Fours Seasons'
so I thought I'd give it a bit of a spin...
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 10:01:49 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer replies to Don Satz:
>>However, through the centuries, there have been composers whose works were
>>only well received after their death.
>
>I can't think of any composer well received after his death who wasn't
>recognized during his lifetime. Needless to say, I don't know of all
>of them, but of the ones I know of (the Bachs, Handel, Mozart, Haydn,
>Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak, Bruckner, Mahler, Smetana,
>Tchaikowsky, Wagner, Stravinsky, Prokoffiev, Shostakovich, Bartok, Berg,
>Webern, Schoenberg, Debussy, Ravel, Verdi, Puccini, Gershwin, Duke
>Ellington, Messiaen, les Six, Schnittke, Ives, Copeland, Harris, and I'll
>stop now because I don't want to show off too much and I'll inevitably
>leave somebody out) were recognized, if not lionized, during their
>lifetime.
Like "audience" and "public," "recognized" is a term that shifts meaning,
depending on who's using it. J. S. Bach was "recognized" as a composer
-- ie, some people knew that he wrote music -- but he was not the success
Dittersdorf, Handel, and Telemann were. For thirty years, the only
publisher Ives had was himself. Schubert was known as a local boy during
his lifetime. However, read the story of how Schumann "discovered" the
Ninth.
And so on.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:27:27 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mimi Ezust gave a superbly eloquent reply to Didrik Schiele question:
>>What does it mean, "understand the music"?
>
>Again and again, people here have said about various works, "it took
>me a long time to understand this piece."
>
>Part of understanding is having the ability to sense the organization
>already present in the work. Are you able to recognize patterns? Hear
>certain parts of the work returning? Identify rhythmic sections? ...
>Sure, some pieces are Love-at-first-hearing ... but even more of them
>require careful concentration before they reveal their charms.
Although I have admittedly already quoted the Nietzsche passage in a reply
elsewhere I could not help but be struck by just how astonishingly close
Mimi Ezust comes to the spirit of the Nietzsche quotation. So much so that
I cannot but resist quoting this wonderful passage from "La Gaya Scienza"
once more: [Well, I can. There's absolutely no reason ever to repost
something to the list that's still in the archives. -Dave]
Mimi Ezust also wrote:
>All of these things reveal themselves gradually. The more experience
>you have with classical music and the idioms of the period or and
>the composer, the easier you will find the getting-acquainted phase
>of listening.
It is true that there are few works that have been a Love-at-first-Hearing
for me. With few notable exceptions, most of the works I have come to
have committed long-term relationships with have been works that initially
left only a vague impression of 'cacophony' on first acquintance. I do not
just mean Webern but would include most of late Beethoven in this category.
I wouldn't pretend I fell in love with 'die Grosse Fuga' on first
acqaintance. Schoenberg once mentioned that he had seen people react
to die Grosse Fuga saying "Why this sounds likes atonal music." But what
seemed initially strange and cacophanous noise we learn to love, so that
despite some disastrous affairs, we become wiser and more astute in almost
innumerable ways.
>It is unfortunate that we have such a limited vocabulary ... "understand"
>generally refers to the meanings of other words, comprehension
>in reading, and so forth. But musical understanding is a very different
>thing. It takes in knowledge based on much musical listening experience.
>It can not always be explained in technical terms... and technical terms
>cannot begin to explain the magic that happens when we finally start to
>love a piece of music and make it our own.
We all yearn to be understood, and understood unconditionally. Yet what
really is the difference between Love and Understanding? If you read Mimi
Ezust's post or the Nietzsche quote, you begin to wonderful if there really
is a difference - the two ideas begin to merge into one. Bruckner as
composer yearned to be loved, to be understood, and be fully accepted
both as a human being as much as a composer. And like Boulez after him,
Bruckner wrote and rewrote his works, fearing that his utterances would
be misunderstood - that he would be rejected, and yet again be led to the
precipice of dispair. " To understand is to equal" said Plato. To love -
is that not also to equal. But who today still dares to reach such
heights? It is all to easy to drag matters down to the depths of contempt
towards all that seems strange and unfamiliar.
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:09:36 -0700
From: Gene Halaburt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Naxos Historical Edition in USA
Walter Meyer wrote:
>I just checked for this on the Naxos Web site and it (Don Giovanni/Pinza/
>Kipnis)is listed as not available in the USA. This might be because it's a
>Metropolitan Opera performance....
I believe it can be ordered from A&B Sound (Canada). See their web-site
at: http://www.absound.ca/
Gene Halaburt
(Usual disclaimers)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 08:08:58 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Naxos Historical Edition in USA
I must have missed this posting; please enlighten me, becaus Pinza is a
great favourite. Trouble is, I mention these singers and my husband says,
eagerly, "I've got it on 78s if you'd like to hear it!" Well, sometimes
just to plese him I do-not, I hasten to add on the "Witches Hat Wind "up
tho'! (Goes well with my email address, don't you think?)
Doris<><
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 11:50:59 -0500
From: Rosemary Ceravolo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Let's not forget that 2002 is a palindrome in itself.
Rosemary
[Yes, but it is music? -Dave]
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:03:25 -0500
From: Andy Jackson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Martin Anderson mentioned some of Simpson's musical palindromes (the
Variations and Fugue on a theme by Haydn for Piano, and later for string
quartet, together with the second movement of the Second Symphony). There
are other palindromes (of various degrees of complexity) in Simpson's
music. Here is a list of the examples I know:
Variations and Finale on a theme of Haydn for Piano (1948) - the variations
are fully palindromic, i.e. all parts reverse.
Finale of the 1st String Quartet (1952) - another set of fully palindromic
variations, this time on an original theme (again followed by a fugue
IIRC).
Symphony No. 2, second movement (1956) - the main line through the entire
movement is palindromic, but the accompaniment is not.
Variations and Fugue for Recorder and String Quartet (1959) - I just got
the Olympia CD of this (Olympia OCD710), it's another example of a set of
palindromic variations followed by a fugue.
Symphony No. 5 (1972) - A bit of a cheat to put this in the list, but its
overall structure is clearly palindromic, with five movements mirroring
each other (the middle movement clearly turns round right in the middle,
though I don't know if its a formal palindrome). Each side of the middle
movement are slow movements that either systematically dismantle, or build
up, a chord (the same chord that both begins and ends the piece).
String Quartet No. 9 (1982) - Another set of strictly palindromic
variations on Haydn's theme, this time for string quartet, followed by a
fugue. By the way, Laurence Sherwood, the fugue is not palindromic.
Symphony No. 9 (1985-87) - Some of the themes in the adagio are
palindromes.
That's all I recall, there may be others. Incidentally (as you can tell
from his commentary on the Ninth symphony), Simpson clearly wanted the
listener to hear his palindromes (although it's not necessary to enjoy the
music). To give you some idea of his obsession with them, when asked to
give a lecture on palindromes, Simpson suggested that he walk on backwards.
Best wishes,
Andy Jackson
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:00:50 -0600
From: Scott Morrison <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Strauss' Men - Are They Mensch?
Janos:
>Listening to the Met's excellent production of "Die Frau ohne Schatten" (I
>still don't like Schnaut, never will...:),
You won't find an argument here.
>I went on a very pleasant stroll in Memory Lane and got out remnants of
>the great SF productions (Bohm-Rysanek!) to listen to after the broadcast
>is finished.
>
>As back in the 'Seventies, once again I am struck by the lopsided gender
>portrayal in the opera - could the Emperor be Strauss himself, vis a vis his
>better (certainly stronger) half in real life? He goes off hunting at the
>beginning and turns up at the end,
Heck, the Marschallin's husband (the Feldmarschall) in 'Rosenkavalier' is
out hunting and gone for the entire opera. Talk about avoiding his wife!
>Of course, one should not get involved in the story [of Frau ohne
>Schatten] too much, not *this* story anyway. You can get a great deal out
>of the text of "Rosenkavalier," even of "Arabella," but besides Laura
>Huxley's institution for the Ungeboren, not too many folk can benefit from
>paying attention to anything but this incredible music.
Strauss himself wasn't too fond of the story. Strauss collaborated via
letters with Hofmannsthall, his librettist, since they lived in different
cities. In 'A Working Friendship', a collection of these letters, Strauss
repeatedly takes Hofmannsthal to task for his fanciful, nay impenetrable,
story. But he knew he had a great wordsmith working with him -- and this
was after the great success of Elektra, Rosenkavalier, et al. -- and he
wanted to keep a good relationship going. He had doubts about the opera
to the end.
Scott Morrison,
Prairie Village, KS
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:56:42 +0000
From: Christopher Webber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Strauss' Men - Are They Mensch?
Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Listening to the Met's excellent production of "Die Frau ohne Schatten"
>
>Of course, one should not get involved in the story too much, not *this*
>story anyway. You can get a great deal out of the text of "Rosenkavalier,"
>even of "Arabella," but besides Laura Huxley's institution for the
>Ungeboren, not too many folk can benefit from paying attention to anything
>but this incredible music.
What a shame to dismiss it so flippantly. Janos is missing out on a lot
if he seriously means this, which I doubt. We patronise Hoffmanstahl's
absorbing and intricate text, which inspired this indeed "incredible
music", at our peril. Luckily I don't think too many people in the theatre
do nowadays - this is the age of Tolkien and Harry Potter after all!
There's a lot more to it than just a strange story. Anyone who is
interested in a grown up fairy tale, raising profoundly disturbing (and
ultimately unanswerable) questions about the very nature of our being,
human relationships and duty to the race will enjoy quarrying this
searching fable.
"FROSCH" has to be the most profound and endlessly absorbing Hoffmanstahl
/ Strauss opera by some margin, and that means from the literary as well as
the musical point of view. As a Straussian bred in the bone, I can report
that it's the only one of his operas I revisit with increased rather than
diminished respect every time.
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.nashwan.demon.co.uk/zarzuela.htm
"ZARZUELA!"
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 22:23:05 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Strauss' Men - Are They Mensch?
Janos Gereben wrote:
>As back in the 'Seventies, once again I am struck by the lopsided gender
>portrayal in the opera - could the Emperor be Strauss himself, vis a vis
>his better (certainly stronger) half in real life? He goes off hunting at
>the beginning and turns up at the end, somewhat petrified, completely at
>the mercy of the Empress and the various powers around. In all opera,
>is there a more passive character? Barak, too, is somewhat of a schmuck,
>albeit a nice one (the Emperor kills animals, Barak saves his ass from
>carrying the burden) - everything in the work really depends on the three
>women. (And let's not even think of the brothers.)
I don't know all of Strauss' operas but the slighting of males seems to be
characteristic of all those that I do know.
They seem to be either relegated to background figures, made to appear
ridiculous, or sung by women. I'm thinking of, in addition to *Frau ohne
Schatten*, *Rosenkavalier*, *Elektra* (Orestes isn't really whom the opera
is about), *Salome* (it's her opera, not Jokanaan's), and *Ariadne auf
Naxos*.
Walter Meyer
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:59:55 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
Donald Satz wrote:
>As an example, if ten people listen quietly to any prelude or fugue from
>the Shostakovich Opus 87 piano set, there will likely be ten different
>sets of images created. However, have these ten individuals watch a music
>video of the music in question and there will only be one resulting set of
>images, the one created by what's presented on the screen. I consider this
>a drawback to enrichment and the successful personalization of music.
Except that it's not necessary to form visual images while listening to
music, and I don't. I associate some music w/ experiences (like where
and when I first heard it or how the album cover looked) but the visual
images such music evokes are unrelated and unnecessary for my listening.
The one exception may be the Disney/Fantasia version of Dukas' "Sorcerer's
Apprentice", but none of the other episodes from that film, which I love in
its own right, have affected how I listen to the other works it excerpts.
Walter Meyer
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:58:57 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
Don Satz:
>I don't want to see the conductor, the musicians, and their interaction;
>I want to hear and feel these features and also develop my own sense of
>imagery and emotional content based on the pure experience of listening.
As I live in an area where access to CM in the concert hall is extremely
rare, I don't have a lot of choice in the matter. On those occasions when
I'm visiting somewhere that does have lots of CM in the flesh, I go for it
- symphony concerts, piano trios at lunchtime, guitar recitals in obscure
halls, whatever's on offer. Without revisiting the recent thread about
audience behaviour, IMO there is no comparison between sharing the
experience of the music with the rest of the audience and listening to it
at home, especially when the phone rings in the middle of the slow movement
of Beethoven's A Minor quartet. No matter how good the equipment you play
your CDs on, it cannot reproduce the sense of space with all the ways it
affects the sound of the music. Given all that, the great majority of my
music listening is done as Don does it. But there have been times at
concerts when I've simply closed my eyes and listened, thus making the
visuals superfluous.
>That's my take on this aspect of current technology as it relates to
>music, and it covers all types of music. Any other opinions?
I've never really seen the point of buying a videotape or a DVD of a CM
performance unless it's an opera or a ballet, in which case the visual
aspect is arguably as important as the music. It might be OK to watch an
orchestra performing on television occasionally, but if I want to listen
to, say, a Beethoven symphony, I don't necessarily want to watch as well.
I can't speak for other types of music, but I well remember many years
ago having some friends around to watch the Australian football final.
After it was over, someone asked to see a program called Countdown, a pop
music program, and during the course of it, I heard discussions of the
performers' clothes, hairstyles, makeup, love lives, living arrangements
and so on until in desperation I finally asked if anyone had any opinions
of the music. I got the impression that it was almost an optional extra.
On the rare occasions when my television accidentally lands on such a
program, I don't think things have changed.
But further, Don has raised an interesting issue about "sets of images".
I've sometimes wondered whether everyone has some kind of image as a
reference point when listening to music, whether concrete or abstract, and
if one's degree of expertise affects this. I suppose the classic example
is the Bach Toccata and Fugue section in "Fantasia", which I haven't seen
for a very long time but which I remember presented abstract forms which
were something like the same "shape" as the music. I'm sometimes aware
of visualising in a similar way to this but even if I were any good at
drawing, I'd find it difficult to put them on paper, especially as they
tend to be in three dimensions. Am I making any sense?
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 22:39:14 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
David Harbin at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
>
>Please share your 5 top CD 'finds' in the last year. They can include any
>CD released in any year provided you discovered them for yourself in 2001.
Busoni: Piano music, volumes 1 and 2: Wolf Harden, (Naxos)
Ferruccio Busoni, Visionary. Valerie Tryon, piano (CBC)
I can't get enough of this stuff. Highlights: the Great Bach Chaconne
arranged for piano, Variations and Fugue on Chopin's c minor prelude, and
of course, the Fantasia Contrappuntistica.
Gubaidulina: Canticle of the Sun, and Music for Flute, Strings,
Percussion. Beautiful, eloquent, yet allusive, like nothing else.
Rostropovich is central as cellist, as percussionist (!) and conductor.
Ingram Marshal, Kingdom Come
Hymnodic Delays
Fog Tropes II Nonesuch
Never heard of him until I read a review of this cd in the NYTimes last
Sunday. For the last week I keep returning to it. The Times reviewer
compares him to Avro Part. Maybe so, but to my ears it is the most Ivesian
set of pieces I have ever heard outside of Ives. Highly recommended
Schoenberg, Berg, Webern: Piano Music: Peter Hill, piano (Naxos) No
comment needed.
Liszt: Schubert Song transcriptions 2 Valerie Tryon, piano. I cannot
account for my fascination with these transcriptions, except to say that
Liszt has in effect made a new art form out of the great originals- a set
of miniature tone poems, completely devoid of flash and bombast.
Taking the Busoni cds as one entry there is my five.
BERNARD CHASAN
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 22:13:12 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Dave Harbin asks:
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
>
>Please share your 5 top CD 'finds' in the last year. They can include any
>CD released in any year provided you discovered them for yourself in 2001.
I can't limit myself to five. There were quite a few. I don't know if
they're all new to 2001, but that's when I acquired them.
1. Bernstein: A White House Cantata. Hampson, Anderson, Hendricks,
Tarver, LSO/Nagano. What became of Bernstein and Alan Jay Lerner's 1600
Pennsylvania Avenue, the musical never finished. Really wonderful, much
too good for today's Broadway. DG 289 463 448-2.
2. Copland: Billy the Kid; Appalachian Spring; Rodeo. SFSO/Thomas.
One rarity -- the "complete" Appalachian Spring scored for full symphony
orchestra by Copland for Ormandy and the Philadelphia. Ormandy recorded
it 'way back when, and it's great to have it back. Beyond that, the CD
surpasses every other performance I've heard, even those by Bernstein.
One fabulous CD. RCA 09026-63511-2.
3. Bloch: Macbeth. Lafont, Hatziano, Montpelier Philharmonic
Orchestra/Layer. At long, long last, a complete recording of Bloch's
only opera. One of the most powerful operas ever, and certainly to a
Shakespearian play. Actes Sud OMA34100.
4. Bach: Partitas. Tureck. A classic returns. Tureck was for me *the*
great Bach pianist. Philips 456976.
5. Bach: Goldberg Variations; Selections from the Klavieruebung. Tureck.
Another classic recording returns to availability. Philips 456979.
6. Britten: Lachrymae; Hindemith: Viola Sonata op. 11/4; Shostakovich:
Viola Sonata. Silverthorne/Constable. Viola works by, in my opinion, one
of the great viola players, the best one still alive. A program of classic
modern pieces, with an early (even Romantic) Hindemith thrown in. The
collaboration between Silverthorne and his pianist, John Constable, is
amazingly subtle. There are three possibilities: 1) They worked every
tiny detail out beforehand; 2) They're the luckiest two musicians alive; 3)
They are two superb musicians alive to the possibilities of the moment.
Terrific. Best performance of the Shostakovich I've heard, hands down.
Koch 3-7270-2.
7. B. Stevens: Dance Suite; Piano Concerto; Variations. Roscoe,
National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland/Leaper. Yet another great British
composer too few know about. Three superb works, beautiful as Brancusi
sculpture. Marco Polo 8.223480
8. Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 2 "London" (orig. 1913 version).
London Symphony/Hickox. A "must-have" for the composer's hard-core fans.
A fascinating look behind the scenes of a modern masterpiece and how it
came to be. The performance is fine, but the score itself is the star.
Chandos 9902.
9. Vaughan Williams: Valiant-for-truth; Symphony No. 5; The Pilgrim
Pavement; Hymn-tune Prelude on Song 13 by Orlando Gibbons; 23rd Psalm;
Prelude and Fugue in c minor. Richard Hickox Singers, London
Symphony/Hickox. For me, the greatest performance of the Fifth Symphony
plus the first successful professional recording of one of the treasures
in VW's catalogue -- the choral motet Valiant-for-truth. The other works
(including arrangements by other hands) are merely wonderful. Chandos 9666
10. Varese: Complete Works. Chailly et al. Fire up your online shopping
links. This is a sympathetic, handsome set of performances of music from
one of the most original, poetic minds of the Modern period. London
460208.
11. Webern: Orchestral Works. Cleveland Orchestra/Dohnanyi. At last.
A Webern performance by someone who actually hears the music, rather than
the notes. A milestone. London 444593.
12. Novak: Dido; Mimus magicus. Soloists, Bavarian Radio Male Choir
and Symphony/Kubelik, Kurokouchi, Novakova, Novak. My most exciting new
discovery of the year. A Czech composer, sort of a cross between Martinu
and Orff. Wonderfully rhythmic stuff. Audite 97.457
13. Strauss: Choral music. North German Figural Choir/Straube.
Strauss's choral music isn't well known because it's expensive to produce
and difficult as hell to get through. However, the works here are all pure
gorgeous, the performances astonishing. Thorofon CTH 2390.
14. Debussy: Selected piano music. Debussy. That's right, you read
right. Claude Debussy playing his own stuff. In a really strong year,
this is my candidate for CD of the year. I grew up mainly on Gieseking,
who's still pretty damn good. However, Debussy is revelatory in his own
music. Pierian 0001
15. Bloch: Poemes d'automne; Psaumes; Hiver-Printemps; In the Night.
Delunsch, Balleys, Le Texier, Luxembourg Philharmonic Orchestra/Shallon.
Early works by a modern master too long neglected. Timpani 1C1052.
16. Scurria: Selected works. The composer's still in her twenties and
she writes remarkably assured, beautifully poetic pieces. She's tonal,
but she's not trivial. An original voice and the real goods. Her CDs
are available through her web site: www.amyscurria.com
So I'm only roughly 200% over the limit. There are still CDs I've bought
which I haven't even gotten around to opening. Otherwise this list would
probably run much longer. I'm currently about two years behind in writing
full reviews, so I welcome this opportunity to alert people to this stuff
now.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 15:28:35 -0800
From: Jim Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Steve Schwartz asks:
>>1. Bernstein: A White House Cantata. Hampson, Anderson, Hendricks,
>>Tarver, LSO/Nagano. What became of Bernstein and Alan Jay Lerner's 1600
>>Pennsylvania Avenue, the musical never finished.
Unfortunately it was finished.
1. Opened May 4th, 1976.
2. Panned (rightfully because of the book)
3. Closed the following Saturday night after 7 performances.
Trust me, I was there, sitting in the pits hoping for a two year run.
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 00:58:46 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
These are the discs most memorable to me during the past year:
Reissue of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier from Glenn Wilson on Teldec. I
didn't remember how great these performances are. I end up feeling that
Wilson is always at the service of the music with performances which
indicate some kind of umbilical chord between Wilson and Bach.
Gerhard Weinberger's recordings of Bach's Orgelbuchlein on CPO. Although
stretched over two separately sold cd's, Weinberger's are the most
interestingly austere performances of the Orgelbuchlein I have yet to hear.
Antonio's de Cabezon's complete organ works on a 2-cd Motette set. I used
to think that Scheidt, Scheidemann, Weckmann, Buxtehude, and Bach owed to
all to Sweelinck. But it was actually the earlier de Cabezon where the
debt is owed. A real eye-opener for me with great performances by Jose
Luis Gonzalez Uriol on six different historical organs - definitely my
recording of the year.
Zemlinsky's four string quartets from the Artis Quartett-Wien on Nimbus.
These are masterful works taking me from Brahms to directions taken by
Schoenberg.
Baroque Organ Works from Christian Collum on Berlin Classics. I've never
heard music so powerfully performed - my 'macho' disc of the year.
The Bach Circle, Volume 1 from Harald Vogel on Organeum/Loft Recordings.
Using a wonderful pedal clavichord, Vogel gives us idiomatic performances
so different from those on the organ.
The organ works of Bruhns and Hanff from William Porter on Loft Recordings.
Porter found a fantastic historical Danish organ and invests the works of
these two under-rated composers with masterpiece status.
"Brunzema in Ontario" from organist Thomas Donahue on Calcante. Take some
excellent and relatively serene organ music from Walther, Bach, and Ernst
Pepping; add in beautiful performances on a lovely sounding modern organ,
and the result is my 'comforting disc of the year'.
Don Satz
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:07:28 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
David Harbin wrote:
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
Firstly, Happy new Year to you all and I hope that for our friends in the
USA this will be a much better year than last. The 5 Cd`s I have
discovered, there are others but I will stick to the 5 are:
1. Henry Litolff -Concerto Symphonique no 3 in E flat, opus 45 and Concerto
Symphonique no 5 in C minor. Opus 123. Hyperion CDA 67210
These 2 works in my view are absolutely stunning. The melodic lines
that run through them are beautiful. Apparently 2 and 4 are just as good
although I don`t have them. Peter Donohoe plays the piano exeptionally and
the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra are just superb. I really rate this CD
and highly reccomend it.
2. Gillian Weir-Organ Master Series -Priory PRCD 751
The Aeolian Skinner Organ of The first Church of Christ Scientist, Boston
This is the first in a series of 3 Recordings made by Dame Gillian Weir,
who like myself is a New Zealander in memory of her late husband Larry
Phelps. The works on it are very interesting including Sonata on the 94th
Psalm by Julius Reubke which I am given to understand by Organists i know
is very difficult to play also on the Disc is Sonata Eroica by Joseph
Jongen. Introduction, Passacaglia and fugue by Healey Willan, and Sonata
no 1 by Paul Hindemith. Highly reccomended for all Organ Enthusuiasts. I
am awaiting volume 2 of this series which is recorded on an English Organ
as i write.
3.Einojuhani Rautavaara-Cantus Arcticus, Piano Concerto no1, Symphony no 3
Naxos 8.554147
Laura Mikkola Piano, Royal Scottish National Orchestra conducted by Hannu
Lintu.
I found these works particularly fascinating as I did not have much
knowledge of Finnish composers apart from Sibelius. I found the Cantus
Arctcus particularly interesting as the sounds of birds was interwoven with
the orchestra. I will be exploring Rautavaara`s works some more as I found
them particularly enjoyable.
4. Johann Baptist Vanhal Pastoral Mass in G Major and Solemn Mass in C
Major Solists:Haines, Stoddart, Ainsworth, Pitkanen Tower Voices New
Zealand Chorus Master: Karen Grylls Aradia Ensemble conducted by Uwe Grodd
in St Johns Cathedral, Napier, New Zealand. Naxos8.555080
Another New Zealand Gem in my view. Karen Grylls is the Dean of the Music
Faculty at Auckland University where I come from. She has done a wonderful
Job here. I really enjoyed these masses and I now have a disc of one of
the 2 volumes of the Symphonies of vanhal also on Naxos. St Johns
Cathedral, Napier is a great venue for this recording. I was unfamiliar
with the works of this composer before I heard this recording so this was
a great discovery for me.
5. Jan Jarvlepp-Garbage Concerto,Imants Kalnins,Rock Symphony Bis CD-1052
I enjoyed this because this disc was so very different from anything
else I had heard. The Garbage concerto was fascinating and I felt that
percussionists really did well. Having said that It is not one I would
play regularly, but it`s good to get it out from time to time. I dont
think it is one of those you can listen to again and again.
There are others I could mention but 5 I think is enough.
Cheers
Stuart
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:23:55 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
David Harbin at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
Hovhaness: Symphony "All men are brothers" & Tzaikerk
Rautavaara Violinconcerto:
Hamelin's Kaleidoscope,
Fartein Valen and Harald Saeverud: Pianomusic
Manuel Ponce, Pianoconcerto and violinconcerto
Leonarda Balada, Pianoconcerto #3 and violinconcerto
Boresen Violinconcerto
I discovered many more, but these are the ones That spring to my mind
Peter Wisse The Hague
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:03:34 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
I've had to cull severely, but I can't limit myself to five.
In no particular order:
1. K A Hartmann: Symphonies. Bamberg SO/Ingo Metzmacher. EMI
72435569112 (3 CDs). A purchase that could have gone wrong. Not easy
to get to know, but I've enjoyed the experience.
2. Vaughan Williams: Symphony No 2 (A London Symphony) (Original
Version). Butterworth: The Banks of Green Willow. London SO/Richard
Hickox. Chandos CHAN 9902. My favourite Vaughan Williams with some
magical additions - a must-have for anyone who cares about this work.
3. Wiren: Symphonies 2, 3. 2 Concert Overtures. Norrkoping SO/Thomas
Dausgaard. cpo 999677-2. Alluring, strangely beautiful music with some
unexpected dark corners. A companion CD contains the 4th and 5th - I hope
to have my order for it filled eventually.
4. Moyzes (1906-1984): Symphonies. Slovak Radio SO/ Ladislav Slovak.
Marco Polo has been releasing the twelve symphonies of this Slovakian
composer, two to a disc, in fairly quick succession. I'd suggest Nos 5,
6 (Marco Polo 8.225090) as a good toe-in-the-water test.
5. Beethoven: String Trios Opp 3, 9; Serenade Op 8. Trio Italiano
d'Archi. DG 459466-2 (2 CDs). For me, a previously unexplored area of
Beethoven's output. Delightful and easily accessible, although Op 3 tends
to overstay its welcome.
6. Braga Santos (1924-1988): Symphony No 2. Crossroads (ballet).
Bournemouth SO/Alvaro Cassuto. Marco Polo 8.225216. The third in the
series with only No 4 to be released. Melodic, very rewarding music.
7. Dopper (1870-1939): Symphony No 2. Two Paeans for Orchestra.
Residentie Orchestra, The Hague/Matthias Bamert. Chandos CHAN 9884. The
symphony is a delight, interestingly orchestrated and with some unexpected
wit. The paeans are equally attractive.
8. Henry Hadley (1871-1937): Symphony No 4; The Ocean; The Culprit Fay.
National SO of Ukraine/John McLaughlin Williams. Naxos American Classics
8.559064. A terrific disc at any price that makes you wonder who else from
the period awaits rediscovery.
9. Hummel: Mass in D; Te Deum. Soloists, Erdody Chamber
Orchestra/Domonkos Heja. Hungaroton HCD 32004. Strongly reminiscent
of the later Haydn masses which I mean as a recommendation.
10. Berlioz: Requiem; Te Deum. Soloists, London SO and Chorus/Colin
Davis. Philips 464689-2. No discovery here, just replacement for some
well-worn LPs. The remastering makes these performances sound better than
ever.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:52:09 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>I have the same impression listening to variation #3 of the last movement
>of op111...it miraculously anticipates jazz, in a transcedental manner.
>But I've never had the opportunity to read anything about it. I know it
>has to do with the snycopated rythm, but is that all? Anyhow, that's one
>of the most sublime moments in the history of western music.
It does indeed have a jazz-like rhythm, but an even earlier example of
classical jazziness can be found in Contrapuntus 2 from Bach's Art of the
Fugue. Someone pointed out this quality (more subtle than in the Beethoven
Op.111) to me in the string quartet transcription performed by the Julliard
Quartet, which made me revisit the original harpsichord version with an ear
for picking it up. It's so unmistakable,
I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone else mention it.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 23:33:35 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Mike Leghorn writes:
>What city/country do you live in that has a radio station that plays
>Beethoven's last piano sonata so frequently? I'd like to move there.
To be honest I heard a (live?) Pollini recording on a Boston station while
riding in New Hampshire; that's the only time I recall hearing it on the
radio. Usually it is me playing a recording of it and I collar a nearby
family member, friend, or acquaintance and put the riddle to them. I'm a
hit at parties, can't you tell.
Michael
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:33:30 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
Rosemary Ceravolo wrote:
>Let's not forget that 2002 is a palindrome in itself.
>
>Rosemary
>
>[Yes, but it is music? -Dave]
It depends...
Karl
[No it doesn't. Not in the least. -Dave]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:24:17 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palindromes in Music
I once wrote a longish percussion piece that was palindromic; its internal
structure was based on a formal enumeration of eight stroke paradiddles,
which had unanticipated connections to fractals and the Fibonacci sequence.
len.
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 01:50:30 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Satoshi Akima wrote:
>I am no professional musician myself but I can only say that it might
>be possible for any musician to add some odd notes here and there to a
>composition that was being premiered, whether tonal or otherwise, without
>the audience noticing.
This is perhaps theoretically true. If so, so what? Does that make it
stupid? If I make some extra squiggles in a squiggly "modern" painting,
would anyone notice? Would it prevent the painting from selling for a
gazillion dollars? No.
>I agree, that as an aleatoric composition it no doubt deserved to win
>the competition - regardless of whether the composer entered the work for
>wilfully malicious reasons or not.
I'm awfully happy someone said that! I'd like to play it, truth is it's
right up the alley of the little improv chance-music wierdness project I've
got going.
>Part of the idea of chance composition is that it is composition which
>transcends the Will of the composer.
Correct. A piece of music can literally compose itself.
I blathered:
>>I think there is no art form where the main protagonists are so ignorant
>>of the very art they practice.
>
>I think you are being too harsh on your collegues. I've met
>professionals with a trumendous knowledge of their art.
I said a percentage. Of course, lots of my colleagues are exactly what you
might think they would be, interested and involved artistically, creative,
intellectually driven by the art. But many are about as interested in
classical music as plumbers are about the exact chemical makeup of the
tubes they install.
>However I do find it disconcerting that there are professional musicians
>out there who still cannot "understand" dodecaphony.
Ahem. It might amuse you to know that I hadn't even heard of that term
until I started reading internet classical-music lists. I have always
liked the music and enjoyed playing most of it that's come my way but that
particular term I didn't know.
>This seems scarcely conceivable when you consider that Schoenberg died
>50 years ago and that I - a hopelessly uneducated rank amateur ignoramus -
>still has to be thrust into the position of defending this sort of music
>against the criticism of professional musicians to whose ear it still
>sounds like the old cacophany that first presented itself to me when I
>first heard encountered this music years ago.
I find it equally hard to believe sometimes. If you're still with me
on this mail, here's a diverting little story that might illustrate the
resistance in the ranks to what might be considered unusual music. One
time Franz-Paul Decker was conducting the Barcelona Symphony in a program
that included several works by Korngold. Wonderful pieces, and Decker is
one of the great interpreters. My stand partner intensly disliked this
music, as well as the conductor. In the concert he performed and behaved
horribly, fluffing over the notes, intentionally screwing around with
his bowing, making faces, winking and giggling with his friends, in some
ways even worse than Jocelyn's pal. It was extremely distracting and
disturbing, and my performance was affected, and being principal cellist
that was a drag. After the concert, walking off the stage, I asked him if
he was really bored by the concert, and he said that he hated this shit we
were forced to play and he hated Decker, and I said well really if you feel
that strongly you shouldn't play the concert tomorrow, because I can't work
with you acting up that way, it's too distracting, and I happen to like the
music a great deal. He said You're no-one to tell Me how to play, and he
shoved past me, and I shoved him back, and, as I held my $50,000
violoncello in my hands standing backstage at the Palau de la Musica
Catalana he punched me in the face, almost breaking my nose.
And this was over Korngold! This guy might think Dodecaphony was a kind
of coffee.
Perhaps he might be interested in some concerts in Culver City.
David Runnion
http://mp3.com/TRAMUNTANA
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 04:09:36 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>:
>I can't think of any composer well received after his death who wasn't
>recognized during his lifetime. Needless to say, I don't know of all
>of them, but of the ones I know of (the Bachs, Handel, Mozart, Haydn,
>Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak, Bruckner, Mahler, Smetana,
>Tchaikowsky, Wagner, Stravinsky, Prokoffiev, Shostakovich, Bartok, Berg,
>Webern, Schoenberg, Debussy, Ravel, Verdi, Puccini, Gershwin, Duke
>Ellington, Messiaen, les Six, Schnittke, Ives, Copeland, Harris, and I'll
>stop now because I don't want to show off too much and I'll inevitably
>leave somebody out) were recognized, if not lionized, during their
>lifetime.
I could easily quote many composers of that list as examples of the
opposite case. It depends on what do we mean with "recognition". Bach
was highly appreciated during his lifetime as an organist and improviser,
but not much more. After his death he was remembered and honored like a
fossil by his "didactical" works (the WTK, for example) and by having been
the effective cause of his much more illustrious sons. Mozart died poor
like a rat, a fact that speaks by itself about his "recognition" among his
contemporaries. Schubert is an analogue case, with the difference that he
didn't enjoy a single period of real good fortune in his whole life.
At his death he was recognized only by a circle of friends. I don't need
to insist on the diameter of such circle. Bruckner was recognized by
his contemporaries only at his mature years, after being neglected and
humiliated by critics, colleagues, conductors and players. Mahler had
to fight *really* hard during his whole life for his recognition as a
composer. Concerning Webern and Schoenberg...well, there are people
nowadays (even among this list) who doubt that they are really "composers",
or at least "good composers". I'm far from postulating that, in order to
be a great composer, you must necessarily be neglected, ignored, insulted,
crucified, etc. It reminds me a joke about a composition teacher who,
according to some of his pupils, had incorporated the tuberculosis as a
previous requisite to his courses. There are guys like Haendel, Haydn,
Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, who had a certain good luck
during their lifetime. Some others simply hadn't.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:30:50 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Looking back on 20th century music, I think it was a natural progression
>from Romantic music. As with other major style transitions, the
>progression consisted of some breakthroughs. ...
Most of your argument is self-gratifying historicism; & has limited merit
in determining whether this tradition in 20th century concert music is even
of historical importance (& no relevance at all in determining whether the
music is any good or not). That one can draw a chain of Romanticism to one
small branch of 19th century music (basically the expanded tonality branch
of the self professed Music of the Futurists) doesn't make it the only or
even the natural outcome of 19th century music; & the idea that style
transitions consists of breakthroughs (ie, inherent improvements; rather
than what really happens, which is that tastes in style change at these
points, usually for extramusical reasons) is simply heroic Romanticism - a
19th century idea in itself - at its more arrogantly pretentious.
For those who like atonally-inclined melodies: just like it; & stop
being so damned threatened that audiences prefer to have the rather
jovial tuning of a Kernis... it just makes us look like a bunch of
insecure hoons. For those who dislike the style: forget about the few
who will choose to berate you for daring to practise choice here. So long
as you inform yourself about the style (& are therefore are arguing from
observation rather than prejudice), your choice in art is every bit as good
as anyone else's....
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:30:17 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Professor Bernard Chasan writes:
>But if you like tepid and easy, then Lowell Lieberman might be your man-
>as judged by his gorgeous and terminally bland Second Symphony.
OK, but don't forget Lieberman's pianoconcerto's, brilliantly played by
Hough!! I can also recommend William Schuman's, violinconcerto and Song
of Orpheus for cello and orchestra.
Peter Wisse
THe Hague
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:27:07 -0500
From: "Richard A. Ujvary" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
After the "bullwhipping" now I know the etiology of those "weepy" violins
and ballads such as "How I Lost My One True Love on the Hortobagy"...;-)
and thanks to Mimi Ezust's very enlightening piece on "understanding music"
and Satoshi Akima's ref to Nietzsche's strangeness of new music....
Rich... listening to Hary Janos..
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:30:16 -0500
From: Stephen Hicken <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Ms Wang writes:
>Again, someone infers a point of view to me that I do not actually have.
>I was not bragging about it. I was not even condoning it. I was simply
>using it as an example of how atonal works tend to be so cacophonous that,
>even when a player does what the above-mentioned performer did, it stands
>an excellent chance of not even being noticed, a point you, for all your
>rage at what he did, failed to address.
I'll address it. I suppose people who advance this "idea" as some kind
of proof of some flaw (I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be proof
of) inherent in non-tonal music go to concerts to count mistake, or
perhaps to daydream as the utterly familiar wafts over them in a haze
of self-congratulations. Do you listen to concertos for expressive
content or as part of a competition?
Which reminds me of a more interesting question--the communication of
virtuosity in a non-familiar style. How does one go about it, and is
it important?
Steve Hicken
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:52:15 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Satoshi Akima writes:
>Composer's like Schoenberg and Berg come up with some absolutely drop-dead
>gorgeous melodies, especially in their later dodecaphonic works.
I'm all ears -- please offer some specific examples.
len.
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:41:15 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Laurence Sherwood wrote:
>... what is the value of "music" in which it makes no discernable
>difference whether or not a cellist is performing the score or some
>finger exercises?
I am reminded of many concerts where a musician, forgetting their place
in a piece "improvised" for several measures and not a single critic
noticed...I am not talking about atonal music, but tonal music, Beethoven,
Mozart, Chopin, et al.
>I think it's an excellent way of showing "the emperor has no clothes".
see above.
>If some cad tried this during the cavatina movement of Beethoven's string
>quartet #13, I'd throttle the s.o.b
Don't go to concerts, you might end up in jail.
>Can one really take seriously the judgement of a competition for new
>compositions in which a cat's plunking the keys wins a prize?? Need I point
>out that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Shostakovich would- I suppose- have
>had a less favorable assessment of the musicality of the cat's ramblings.
It might be interesting to know who was on the jury for that competition.
I would also suggest that probably many atonal composers would have had a
less favorable assessment of the cat's ramblings.
>This all reminds me of a marvelous joke the physicist Alan Sokol pulled
>a few years ago. He read some of the literature on semiotics, and decided
>it was bunk. So he cranked out some paper in which he strung together a
>bunch of cliches from the field, and coupled it somehow with the quantum
>mechanics, and I think "demonstrated" how both disciplines had a comparable
>pursuit of the truth. ...
I believe the lack of quantification in the humanities and in human
expression does indeed make it rough when those disciplines are brought
into the academic environment. That environment can be responsible for
certification and it can be rough going when one has to "judge" each
expression on its own terms and not by a set of "standards."
>But unlike Prof. Kinton, there were many traditionalists in the MLA who
>praised Sokol for his efforts, saying that it took an outsider to expose
>the intellectual bankruptcy of their field- a point many of them had been
>making privately for years. I find the professor reaction- consummate
>musician though he is- to be uncomfortably close to the proverbial (or was
>it actual?) shooting of the messenger for the unpalatable message.
I got no sense that Prof. Kinton was trying to diminish the point, he was
merely pointing out the unprofessional behavior of the musician.
>Sokol- and I would claim- the musician doing the finger exercises
>effectively made a point that deserves serious consideration, not an
>attempt to sweep the matter under the rug simply because you disapprove
>of his method of exposing the current orthodoxy (being the suspicious type,
>I wonder if it's the methods used that arouse hostility, or the message
>itself).
So what about those musicians who, at the time of a memory loss in the
music of Schubert or some other tonal composer, improvize in the key until
they remember what comes next...does that say that the music of Schubert
or... is rubbish since the listener didn't notice something was wrong?
Karl
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:57:07 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
I heard a funny story about how a publisher rejected Schubert's now-famous
Earl King song and sent it back to the wrong Franz Schubert, who happened
also to be a composer. This Franz Schubert returned the song to the
publisher with a letter stating something like, "Who has the audacity
to write such rubbish in my name?"
Mike
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:26:58 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Satoshi Akima responds to me:
>Len Fehnskens replies to Steve Schwartz:
If you can't get my name right, cut and paste
>>>I happen to like some Babbitt.
>>
>>Meaningless. Please say something meaningful.
>
>I have never seen anyone respond to a post in which someone has said
>something like "I happen to like some Faure" in this sort of manner.
>I see no reason why it is any different with Babbitt.
I replied this way precisely because Steve had said such a comment was
not meaningful.
len.
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:02:50 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Didrik Schiele wrote:
>David Runnion <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Jocelyn Wang wrote:
>>
>>>One of the musicians who performed for us told of being part of an
>>>ensemble that was playing an atonal work. Frustrated with its utter lack
>>>of musicality, he decided to put his time to what he determined to be a
>>>more productive use, and started doing finger exercises on his instrument.
>>>No one gave a clue of having even noticed. If he had done this in a Haydn
>>>piece, I guarantee someone would have.
>>
>>It also displays an astounding lack of professionalism on the part of
>>that musician and were I the conductor of that ensemble I'd fire him on
>>the spot.
>
>Nonsence. It displays something else, and that is an astounding lack of
>professionalism on the part of the composer in question.
How so?
>And if it was so that the musicians fall into "civil disorder", which
>Jocelyn Wang's description sounds as an example of, it is probably because
>the musicians don't respect their leader, i.e. the conductor. And why?
>Becuase he gives them work they see no meaning in performing, and therefore
>no joy in doing so.
It seems to me that you have had little to no experience as a performing
musician. Some players are upset when they have to practice something...it
doesn't matter if it is Boulez or Tchaikovsky.
>Perhaps it comes out as being bad because the performers don't know how to
>play it? But they are just educated musicians, we can't demand that they
>shall understand it as well as most of the audience.
Musicians can have a very different "understanding" of music. I have
encountered many higly musically literate individuals who can't read a
note of music and yet have a substantive understanding of music and I have
also met known many technically gifted musicians who demonstrate little
"understanding" of the music. Which of course gets back to the other
question of understanding music.
Karl
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 20:13:40 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Dave Lampson replies to me:
>>Can one really take seriously the judgement of a competition for new
>>compositions in which a cat's plunking the keys wins a prize??
>
>Sure. Ever hear of Scarlatti's "Cat's-Paw" fugue?
>
>[So Scarlatti simply transcribed verbatim a cat's random walk across
>the keys and that became this fugue. How remarkable. How unlike
>anything I've ever read about the piece.:-) Actually, Scarlatti's
>"The Cat's Fugue" K. 30 was so nicknamed by critics when it came out
>because the main theme was odd-sounding, as if it may have been the
>result of a cat walking on the keys. There's no evidence a cat was
>actually invlved, as far as I know. -Dave]
You stinker! Next you'll be telling me there's no Easter Bunny!
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:46:27 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 24 Preludes and Fugues
Dear List, Prelude II is now posted, and, in a surprisingly small package,
a midi rendition of it. These works are "gebrauchmusik", for human players
of modest accomplishments, but for a piano sound the midi isn't too bad.
The score pdf: http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_prelude_op66_2.pdf
The midi file: http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_prelude_ii.mid
Again, non-commercial use only, and for a limited time, you may take and
print these and play them.
William Copper
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:06:21 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Atonal Music for Newbies
Mary Powers <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I admit this whole discussion of tonality/atonality leaves me pretty
>confused. any suggestions on where to start learning?
Don't... just listen to music & follow up the work that interests you.
Be very skeptical of all recommendations on what you should/shouldn't
listen to... it's all individual taste, sometimes wrapped up in delusions
of objectivity. Most 20th century composers integrate nontonal elements
into their music (including the popular minimalists we hard men of atonal
sound are sometimes guilty of berating as commercial); but only a few -
generally uninteresting - figures write truly atonal music.
Based on your tastes, the following composers would be worth following up:
Faure: Ravel; Debussy; Sibelius; Rakhmaninoff; Bantock; Vaughan Williams;
Delius; & all the composers listed under Messiaen
Messiaen: Takemitsu; Hovhaness; Scelsi; Feldman; Gorecki; Paert; Frankel;
Gerhard; Cowell
Copland: Stravinski; Orff; Boulanger (Lili; not Nadia); Milhaud;
Villa-Lobos; Adams; Nyman; ZHU Jian'er; Schoenberg
If you want to annoy the neighbours with some harder edged stuff: try
Penderecki; Searle; XIAN Xinghai; Parch
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 08:57:22 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "The Bach Circle", Volume 3
The Bach Circle, Volume 3
Baroque Organ Works
1. Praeludium in D minor - V. Lubeck
2. Ein kurzer Dantz - E.N. Ammerbach
3-9. Magnificat in the 3rd Mode - S. Scheidt
10-11. Prelude & Fugue in C major, BWV 545 - J.S. Bach
12-23. Chorale Partita, BWV 768 - J.S. Bach
24-25. Fantasy & Fugue in C minor, BWV 537 - J.S. Bach
26. Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland - G.A. Homilius
27. Fantasy & Fugue in C minor - C.P.E. Bach
Loft Recordings 2103
Recorded 1991/1992
Arp Schnitger Organ, Noordbroek, The Netherlands(1696)
Harald Vogel, Organ
TT 66:23
Summary: Programming problems preclude a strong recommendation
This is the final installment in Harald Vogel's "The Bach Circle" series
which provides music of Bach's predecessors, contemporaries, and students.
To retrace a little, Volume 1 on pedal harpsichord was an excceptional disc
while Volume 2 was only given a qualified recommendation largely due to the
limited variety of programming. There is no question that Vogel is a major
Bach performing artist; a fine program and organ is all he needs to give us
a memorable recording.
For Volume 3, about half the disc consists of the three J.S. Bach works.
Lubeck, Ammerbach, and Scheidt are the Bach predecessors, and his students
are Homilius and C.P.E. Bach.
The three Bach works are performed splendidly as would be expected from
Vogel. A strong angularity is favorable for the Preludes & Fugues, and
Vogel certainly comes through; most impressive is his BWV 545 Fugue which
is majestic and inspiring. The BWV 768 Partita receives a wonderful
reading with distinctive and irresistable registrations.
And yet, the disc is not fully satisfying because the remainder of the
program has me yearning for more J.S. Bach. The Lubeck Praeludium in
D minor does not represent Lubeck at his most inspired; the Fugue has a
repeated-note subject which gets tiresome well before the conclusion. The
Ammerbach piece is a nice dance number but short and of little consequence.
The Scheidt selection is not among his best works, and the same applies to
the Homilius and C.P.E. Bach pieces. The result is that the quality of
music takes a big dip after J.S. Bach, and that isn't necessary at all.
Although for different reasons, I find the programming to be questionable
as I did for Volume 2.
Don's Conclusions: The 3 CDs in this Vogel series are not issued as a
set. That affords the buyer the flexibility to choose among the three
recordings, and Volume 1 on the pedal harpsichord is easily the best pick.
In fact, I consider it an essential acquisition. My best advice is to
acquire Volume 1 immediately and bypass the other two recordings in the
series.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 10:17:19 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Berlioz's Operas
Walter Meyer told how he...
>got to learn the titles of operas I was never to encounter again. One
>called *The Bells of Cornwall, or the Chimes of Normandy* sticks in my
>mind.
Presumably Les cloches de Corneville, by Planquette (1848-1903), whose
overture is part of a collection of rare C19 overtures and other operatic
bits and pieces conducted by Richard Bonynge on Decca. My French
dictionary gives Cornouaille for Cornwall - I'd assumed Corneville was
a fictional French town. But I'm just guessing.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 22:23:53 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
I have recently acquired the Gerald Finzi Cello Concerto on Naxos played by
Tim Hugh with the Northern Sinfonia played by Howard Griffithss. also the
2 piano works played by Peter Donohoe. I particularly want to address the
Cello Concerto. What an intensely moving and poignant work. He composed
it I gather when he first learnt he was terminally ill. I particularly
enjoyed the piece because it was so moving. I first got to know Finzi
through some of his church Anthems such as God is gone up with a merry
shout and Lo, the full final Sacrifice. Both of which are a quarter hour
long but which are brilliant. I have also come to know and like some of
his secular songs as well as the Clarinet Concerto which is wonderful. A
pity he died so young when he still had a lot to offer musically. Do we
have any other Finzi fans on the List?
Cheers
stuart
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:44:31 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Granville Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer and other Goodies
Well, I was very pleasantly surprised when the above disc arrived although
I did have Bantock`s Hebridean Symphony on Naxos so I thought I knew what
to expect. This flowing late romantic Music is very pleasant on the ear
indeed. Fancy the fact That Thalaba had not been played since 1901!
Granville Bantock is certainly a very neglected composer. I am hoping
to get some of the others in the Hyperion series. I wonder if any
other members of the list are familiar with this composer. There is also
a recently released disc on Dutton of Bantock`s Cello sonatas. I wonder
if anyone has heard this particular CD?
Cheers
Stuart Sinclair
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:43:20 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Handmaid?
Janos Gereben:
>Ruders' "The Handmaid's Tale" was just nominated for Grammies as best
>contemporary composition and best opera recording. Is anyone familiar
>with it?
No, but I saw the movie.
There's a review of the recording by Paul Rapoport in the Nov/Dec 2001
Fanfare. He mentions a performance in English to be given in Minneapolis
next year.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:52:29 -0500
From: Pierre Paquin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Haydn Symphonies #89 and 90
Our latest transfer from Stereo LP to CD in very unique performances of:
HAYDN: Symphony No. 89 in F Major and Symphony No. 90 in C Major
Vienna Symphony Orchestra, Laszlo Somogyi, conductor
For this other LP to CD transfers including the first of our Konzerthaus
Quartet series release see
http://sd-associates.com/LP_to_CD_Transfers.htm
Thanks for your interest, encouragment, suggestions and support.
Pierre Paquin
www.sd-associates.com
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:25:55 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Naxos Historical Edition in USA
Walter Meyer wrote:
>I just checked for this on the Naxos Web site and it is listed as not
>available in the USA. This might be because it's a Metropolitan Opera
>performance, and the Met has been jealously guarding recordings of their
>performances, preferring to sell them on their own. ...
I have ordered this and similar material via Amazon.uk and other sources.
Karl
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:54:42 -0500
From: Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Judith Sainte Croix's Vision III
Quintet of the Americas To Present World Premiere of Judith Sainte Croix's
Vision III - 2001-2002 Chamber Music America Commissioning Program Award
Winner
New York, NY - The Quintet of the Americas will present the World Premiere
of Judith Sainte Croix's Vision III on Sunday, January 20, 2002 at 4:30
p.m. at St. Luke's Lutheran Church, 308 W. 46th St. in Manhattan. This
piece, written for woodwind quintet and indigenous instruments of South and
Central America, was commissioned with a grant from the 2001-2002 Chamber
Music America Commissioning Program Awards and will be presented as part of
Chamber Music America's National Conference 2002 Commissioning Showcase.
The Quintet was the only group nationwide selected to receive the first
NEA/CMA Special Commissioning Award which supports touring and performances
of the new work.
The composer has supplied the following statement about the work:
"Vision III combines indigenous instruments with Western classical
instruments of the woodwind quintet. The indigenous instruments
played by the quintet will include Guatemalan ocarinas, guiros from
Mexico and Peru, conch shells, a pre-Colombian horn, rainsticks,
Colombian bamboo finger shakers, the cana and gaitas flutes, the
South American pig marona, reed flutes, drums and deer hoof rattles."
"The intent of the "Vision Series" (Vision I and II precede this) I
have created is to bring Indian and non-Indian people together
harmoniously in the concert hall and beyond."
Judith Sainte Croix's transformative music, written for chamber musicians,
opera and orchestra, blends a range of ideas extending from the rituals and
myths of ancient civilizations to the use of new technologies. Elements of
dance and theatre are often included in her compositions. She has created
opera, chamber, orchestral and electronic music that has been performed
across the United States and in Europe. Her awards and commissions include
The Gaudeamus Competition, the Brooklyn Academy of Music and The Minnesota
Youth Symphonies. Her fellowships and grants include, the National
Endowment for the Arts, Time-Warner, New York State Council on the Arts,
the Jerome, Heathcote, Martha Baird Rockefeller and Wurlitzer Foundations,
and the Mary Flagler Cary Charitable Trust Recording Program. Her debut
Sonic Muse CD release "Visions of Light and Mystery" is available in music
stores, from Amazon.com and at her website
http://www.judithsaintecroix.com. She was the subject of a feature article
in the December 2000 issue of Chamber Music magazine.
The Quintet of the Americas, consisting of flutist Sato Moughalian,
oboist Matt Sullivan, clarinetist Edward Gilmore, hornist Barbara Oldham
and bassoonist Laura Koepke, was formed in Bogota, Colombia in 1976 by
U.S. citizens who were principal wind players in the Colombian National
Orchestra. The group relocated to New York City in 1979 and has since
enjoyed an international career that has taken them to concert halls
throughout the Americas, the Caribbean Asia, including annual performances
at Manhattan's Americas Society since 1982. Two time recipients of
ASCAP-Chamber Music America Awards for Adventuresome Programming, the
Quintet's repertoire represents works from composers with a wide-range
of aesthetic viewpoints. They have recorded for CRI, Newport Classics,
MMC and XLNT. Quintet of the Americas has been a past recipient of the
CMA Commissioning Award in for a commission by David Chaitkin and a
Three-year Residency Award for work in Chicago. Visit their website
at http://www.quintet.org.
this season Chamber Music America is awarding 33 grants to ensemble
musicians, presenting organizations, and community groups across the
country. The awards support music education and outreach programs,
provide ensembles with performance opportunities and increased visibility,
assist presenting organizations in the advancement of chamber music in
their communities, and support the creation of new works. CMA will support
both new and ongoing programs including seventeen residencies and sixteen
commissions. Visit their website at http://www.chamber-music.org/.
CMA's grant and award programs have been generously funded by The
National Endowment for the Arts, The Helen F. Whitaker Fund, the
Doris Duke Charitable Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, The
Wallace-Reader's Digest Funds, The William and Flora Hewlett Foundation,
the Josephine Bay Paul and C. Michael Paul Foundation, the Chamber Music
America Endowment Fund and the Cleveland Quartet Award Endowment Fund.
The January 20 concert is sponsored by Rich Worldwide Travel.
For more information about the Quintet of the Americas, contact Jeffrey
James Arts Consulting at 516-797-9166 or [log in to unmask]
Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 19:02:22 +0100
From: Bruno Galeron <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paths to Music
My first interest in music came from... cinema (especially in the 80s
when I was still a kid). Then I discovered composers such as Prokofiev,
Korngold, Walton, Honegger etc. thanks to their film music. And all
this led me to classical music. It was a little more than 3 years ago.
I started to listen to the Romantics (especially Russians) and early
20th century composers (I was fond of British music, especially Vaughan
Williams) which sounded to me rather close to the film music I already knew
(I don't think the same today and the differences become more obvious
everyday).
Since then my interest in classical music has grown up and became what we
could call a true "passion" (but without the suffering it implies if you
know what I mean!). By the way, last year I discovered Bach's music with
his St. John Passion (then I continued with St. Matthew's... and
others!). And what a discovery!
Which is great regarding my young experience in classical music (and music
in general... except maybe film music!) is to think of all I am going to
discover. I consider this as a great journey full of freedom (as with
literature, science and philosophy!).
Some of my greatest discoveries from last year were: Bach (as I
already said), Messiaen (especially his Catalogue d'oiseaux which I find
fascinating) and my very first meeting with opera: Debussy's Pelleas et
Melisande.
There would be so many other things to tell...
Bruno Galeron, France
[log in to unmask] (it should be my main email now).
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 18:40:06 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
Johann Sebastian Bach(1685-1750)
The Art of Fugue BWV 1080
Crystal Music MS 102
Peter Taussig, Disklavier Pro 9 Concert Grand
Recorded 2001
TT 73:23
Summary: A fine Art of Fugue which is inspiring on many levels
Back in the 1970's and 1980's, Peter Taussig was enjoying a fine career in
Canada as a concert and recital pianist. He subsequently was stricken by
a severe case of Carpel Tunnel Syndrome and arthritis which essentially
made it impossible for him to perform with his right hand.
At this point, Taussig was faced with only performing works for the
left hand. Not satisfied with this prospect and always interested in
new technology, Taussig concentrated on the possibility of electronic
production of music. However, the problem he identified for taking the
electronic route was that digital keyboards had a synthetic sound he found
unacceptable.
As it happens, Yamaha came to the rescue with a new type of electronic
keyboard named the Disklavier Pro 9 Concert Grand. Only four of these
instruments exists in the world, and Bill Gates owns two of them. Mr.
Taussig had found just the right instrument to overcome his physical
adversity *and* satisfy his artistic requirements.
How does it work? I'm hardly knowledgeable about these matters, but it
all seems viable. Taussig starts by putting the music into the computer
which drives the Pro 9. He then engages in a process called "musical
sculpting" which he controls with a special computer mouse. Taussig can
then invest each note with the precise volume, length, and relationship
to the beat/rhythm. Once this task is complete, the results are sent by
internet to a recording studio where a similar instrument is activated
and the recording made. Where this process appears superior to a live
performance is that each voice is recorded separately with every note
quite audible and pronounced. Now that the Taussig Art of Fugue has been
recorded, he is working on a recording of the complete Well Tempered
Clavier which should be released in a few months.
Not all responses to the process and recording have been favorable.
Taussig has had to contend with the typical charge that the results of
musical sculpting are artifical and not artistic. I have not discussed
this aspect with Mr. Taussig, but I would assume that he is convinced that
he's doing the absolute best he can given the situation he lives with, and
that his artistry *is* conveyed through the Pro 9. Also, he is convinced
that the Pro 9 does produce highly musical results with a sound quality and
detail impossible on the typical piano.
As for my own opinion, I'm most concerned with the final product, not how
it was processed. I am also convinced that the results Taussig achieves
are entirely dependent on his sense of architecture and artistry; the
process is not a gimmick for the low-skilled pianist. Everything we hear
from the equipment comes from Peter Taussig; it's his show.
As it happens, Mr. Taussing gives us a very fine show. His tempos
reflect a wide range from among the slowest to the fastest on record.
Contrapunctus V and VIII are slower than any other versions I know,
while III, IX, and X are very fast. Taussig clearly does not have
a cookie-cutter mentality in his performance of the Art of Fugue.
Some of Taussig's fugues are performed superbly such as his jazzy
Contrapunctus III, luxuriating Contrapunctus V, throbbing Contrapunctus
VII, and the thrilling Contrapunctus X.
I do take issue with few of Taussig's fugues. I would have liked a more
relentless and intense Contrapunctus II, greater projection of the French
Overture elements of Contrapunctus VI, and more propulsion in Contrapunctus
IX. However, I'm being quite picky here; I find every moment of the
performance quite enjoyable at a minimim.
Taussig tends to give 'rounded' interpretations with little sharpness
or angularity. Although a matter of personal taste, I can't deny that a
greater degree of angularity would have made for some favorable contrasts
within the work.
Concerning comparison recordings, there are some exceptional piano
versions from the likes of Koroliov, Nikolayeva, and Gould. Taussig holds
up well to these alternatives, although I do have a small preference for
them over Taussig's set. On the other hand, making these comparisons might
not be all that viable. Taussig's set comes with special conditions which
other pianists don't have to deal with. His set possesses its own unique
challenges and qualities, and I have reaped many rewards from the listening
experience.
Don's Conclusions: Peter Taussig's Art of Fugue is strongly recommended.
Although I don't agree with each of his interpretations, Taussig has given
us a thought-provoking set of performances which easily rises above the
average. The piano sound is drop-dead gorgeous, Taussig invests each fugue
with his own sense of performance style, and the diversity he supplies is
admirable.
The primary consideration is that the set is *real* music-making needing
to make no excuses for the special equipment used in the musical process.
I eagerly await the issue of Taussig's Well Tempered Clavier and appalud
his intense determination and success in finding the best methods to convey
musical inspiration to his audience.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:34:44 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Organ Works of Lambert Chaumont
Lambert Chaumont(c.1635/50-1712)
Pieces for Organ
Pieces on the Eight Church Tones(Complete)
Koch/Schwann 31278 - Recorded 1970
Organ of Saint Maximin at Thionville
Hubert Schoonbroodt, Organ
TT 153:32(2 Discs)
Pieces on Church Tones(1-3)
Temperaments 316015 - Recorded 1998
Jean-Boizard Organ at the Abbey of Saint-Michel-en-Thierache
Serge Schoonbroodt, Organ
TT 52:15
Lambert Chaumont, born in the province of Liege, was a parish priest who
lived a modest life. He apparently taught himself to play and compose
music. Chaumont published two volumes of music, but one of them just
disappeared into thin air. The other volume, published in 1695, is an
Organ Book. Chaumont referred to it as "Pieces on the eight church tones,
with their variations, their embellishments, their tempi and registration
appropriate for each kind of verse". I should also note that Chaumont's
Organ Book was published in the same decade as the ones from Francois
Couperin and Nicolas de Grigny; it was a grand time for the organ in
France.
Before getting into Chaumont's music and the performances, you might have
noticed from the program listings above that the Temperaments disc is on
the stingy side; a fourth set could easily have been added. Although the
Koch recordings certainly appear the better buy, it's quite possible that
the set is not in print. I obtained it on the used market.
Are the two performers related to one another? Perhaps, but the liner notes
make no connection. It is interesting to note that Serge was born one year
after Hubert recorded Chaumont's organ works.
A few months ago I reviewed a couple of discs devoted to de Grigny's organ
music. I found him a wonderful composer with a great range of diversity
and a musical fecundity of strong magnitude; if anything, I should have
raved about him more intensely. My opinion of Chaumont's music is in the
same league as de Grigny. That Chaumont never had any formal musical
training makes his level of architectural command all the more impressive;
his musical inspiration is also admirable and fully equal to de Grigny.
So, Chaumont's organ music can rightfully be a highly sought commodity.
The only issue remaining is how well our two respective artists convey
the best that Chaumont has to offer. One thing is for sure; there isn't
anything quite like great French organ music on a native instrument. The
rich sound and the unique registrations are astounding when the performer
is excellent.
As it happens, both Schoonbroodts are excellent. I do favor Serge
because his registrations are more musical, interesting, and diverse.
In fact, diversity is the main advantage he holds over Hubert Schoonbroodt.
A prime example is the "Allmande en mi" from the first Tone; it is the next
to last section and the longest. This piece expresses a tremendous amount
of subtle urgency which has been collected from the previous sections.
When Hubert Schoonbroodt plays the repeat, it's an exact replica of the
initial theme. But Serge makes the textures lean in the repeat and offers
an irresitable sense of mystery. As is so often the case, increased
diversity enhances the listening rewards.
Concerning recorded sound, the Temperaments disc has the advantage of a
modern recording with exceptional sound quality. However, the Koch is
mighty fine if you don't make comparisions. Both organs excellently convey
Chaumont's music.
Don's Conclusions: At least one Chaumont disc is an essential for
the baroque organ enthusiast. I strongly recommend purchase of the
Temperaments disc even with the low music time. If you hapen to come
across the Koch set in the used bins, just a little transfer of money will
give you many hours of listening pleasure. Chaumont is a relatively unkown
treasure just waiting for your inspection.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:08:10 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: American Songs
American Moderns
Songs
* Samuel Barber:
Knoxville: Summer of 1915, op. 24 (1)
Hermit Songs, op. 29 (2)
* Aaron Copland:
Old American Songs, Sets 1 & 2 (3)
* Virgil Thomson:
Stabat Mater (4)
Capital, Capitals (5)
(1) Eleanor Steber (soprano), Dumbarton Oaks Chamber Orchestra/William
Strickland
(2) Leontyne Price (soprano), Samuel Barber (piano)
(3) William Warfield (baritone), Aaron Copland (piano)
(4) Jennie Tourel (mezzo), New Music String Quartet
(5) Joseph Crawford (tenor), Clyde S. Turner (tenor), Joseph James
(baritone), William C. Smith (bass), Virgil Thomson (piano)
Sony MHK 60899 MONO Total time: 79:31
Summary for the Busy Executive: Classic songs, classic interpreters.
Virgil Thomson, at the time music critic for the New York Herald Tribune
and a drumbeater for the Modern, persuaded Goddard Lieberson, head of the
classical division of Columbia Records, to inaugurate a series of American
music. They were determined to produce it with class. A board - made up
of Lieberson, Thomson, William Schuman, Copland, and Henry Cowell - chose
the repertoire, and they didn't shrink from "hard." They sought out the
worthy and the obscure, as well as the worthy and what they thought might
catch on. They recorded string quartets by Foss, Barber, Imbrie, Bergsma,
Diamond, Mennin, Schuman, and Haeiff, sonatas and other chamber works by
Cowell, Bowles, Hovhaness, Harrison, Piston, and Creston, orchestral works
by Thomson, Piston, and Harris, and the vocal works here. The series
constitutes a fascinating snapshot of American music in the early postwar
years, as well as the period's heady idealism. This was, after all, just
one of several cotemporaneous projects on different labels for recording
American music. In terms of sheer scale and quality of realization,
there's been nothing like that level of activity since.
This release restores to the domestic U. S. catalogue performances that
remain benchmarks of their respective works. All are premiere recordings,
and the performers seem to have gotten it wonderfully right the first time.
The Steber-Strickland account of Barber's Knoxville: Summer of 1915 for
sheer power has yet to be equaled. Steber's tone may be a bit harsh and
her diction comes and goes, but that doesn't seem to matter. I love the
fact that she sings English with a real American accent and convinces you
very much like a great pop singer does, entering into the drama of the
poem. Others have sung the work more beautifully, but either with less
emotional penetration or with an orchestra on a different interpretive
page. Steber and Strickland achieve the equivalent of a Vulcan mind-meld
here. It is almost as if Steber accompanied herself. Amazingly enough,
Barber had to be convinced Steber was someone he wanted to write for. He
insisted that Steber study the piece with him. Knoxville - its searing
beauty aside - obviously meant a great deal to Barber. He spent a great
deal of time honing to his satisfaction, even after the first public
performance. Steber sings the final revision, for chamber orchestra.
Price and Barber come up with the finest (and first) recording of the
composer's Hermit Songs. This is Price before she took on the heftier
Verdi dramatic soprano roles, when her voice sounded as fresh as a
sweetwater spring. Hermit Songs is my favorite Barber cycle. Its lyricism
is a kin of Knoxville and thus one of the most unabashedly beautiful things
he wrote. Each song is a gem, some songs - "The Crucifixion" and "The
Desire for Hermitage," for example - more than that. I certainly prefer it
to the current big-name competition of Cheryl Studer and John Browning on
DG (part of that label's collection of Barber's "complete" songs). Studer
sings consistently flat and the vocal quality is tired. Browning does well
and tends to greater detail than the composer, but the composer certainly
knew what the overall effect of each of the cycle's songs and, while no
virtuoso, nevertheless played very well indeed. Like most great song
cycles -- Die schoene Muellerin and Winterreise, for example - Hermit
Songs hints at the world beyond its ostensible subject (the monastic life),
because it delves so deep into the psyche. Price and Barber perform these
songs as if they matter and make me regret just a little Price's operatic
career. She could have been one of the great Lieder singers.
This CD includes - if you can believe it - the first release of the
premiere recording of Copland's second set of Old American Songs. The
complete orchestral version (again with Warfield and Copland) has long
been a classic of the stereo era. The question becomes whether you really
need the piano-vocal original. I would say definitely so, with these
performers. What hits you with immediate force - Warfield's voice and
Copland's piano - is the precision of Copland's aural imagination - the
completeness of the musical world he creates in the very first "Boatman's
Song" with fewer than a dozen notes. That evocative exactitude calls to
mind Mahler's songs, and indeed these are kind of an American equivalent
to Mahler. One marks the similar stance of each composer toward folk
music and how each transforms a folk idiom into art music, as well as
the comparable relation between piano-vocal original and orchestral
arrangement. By some miracle, the original implies the orchestration to
an amazing extent. Warfield finds himself in slightly better voice in
this earlier version - more ringing, less fuzz in the tone. However, his
singing was never strictly about the beauty of his voice, but about his
ability to traverse several styles, from vernacular to haute couture and to
communicate with great directness. A lot of this comes down to his diction
- extraordinarily clear and idiomatic American English - and his ability to
declaim poetry in a natural way, without losing the magic.
I love Virgil Thomson's work, but even I find "Capital, Capitals" (to a
text by Gertrude Stein) rough going - or, to be more precise, rough going
on and on and on. It comes off as little more than an experiment. I'm
happy to have heard it once, but I'd think long and hard before committing
to another go-round. A lot of dominant-to-tonic and not even Thomson's
ingenuity with speech rhythms overcomes the tedium that eventually sets in.
On the other hand, the Stabat Mater, for string quartet and voice, is a
masterpiece. The text is not the liturgical poem, but a French surrealist
work by Max Jacob, a Jewish convert to Catholicism, who (in Ned Rorem's
phrase) became more Catholic than the pope. It didn't help him. He died
in a concentration camp. To those who think of Thomson as the phony naif,
this work may surprise. As with everything Thomson wrote, the Stabat Mater
is contrapuntally spare and open. In this case the sparseness translates
into emotional austerity. The harmonies hinted at are more complex than
you might expect, particularly if you know only works like Louisiana Story.
There's a feeling of Renaissance modality to it - church music, if you
will, without the official prayer. Jennie Tourel, one of the smartest,
most musicianly singers of our time, delivers a passionate account.
This release is a first-class job on just about every level. The
repertoire is mostly excellent. One can certainly argue that the
performances are the best that we have gotten so far. Sony has cleaned up
and perhaps enhanced the sound. My LPs never sounded this good. The liner
notes, by Ned Rorem, are superb. This is probably a classic CD, one that
collectors will speak of fondly in years to come. My one quibble is that
Sony has not provided the texts, a very odd decision for an album of songs.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:54:17 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Right Note/Wrong Note
I've withdrawn from the "Aaron Jay Kernis" thread, mainly because my heart
has begun to sink when I see that subject header.
However, a side issue, which I believe deserves its own thread. Someone (I
forget whom) claimed that a composer who couldn't tell a right from a wrong
note in his/her own score was a charlatan or at least didn't know his/her
business or was writing in a style where the notes somehow "didn't matter."
I then came across a reminiscence by pianist Barbara Nissman of the
composer Alberto Ginastera (who dedicated his third piano sonata to her).
We met at rehearsal [of the first piano concerto] -- that was in
1971 -- I remember him sitting in the empty hall, listening -- he
was enjoying himself. I expected him to be super-critical, but he
was so very gracious. ... The conductor was asking him many questions
about specific measures in the hard-to-read orchestral parts -- what
note did he want here -- how should it be played? Observing him, I
realized that this composition, written 10 years earlier was very
far removed from his memory and consciousness. It was as if he were
hearing it for the very first time, totally amazed by its wonderful
effects.
This in turn jogged a memory of an article by Donald Mitchell: "Mahler:
A Wrong Note Righted." Apparently, a wrong note had been written in the
final manuscript, printed in the score, and played for years in "Das Lied,"
and no one (obviously, not even Mahler) had noticed. And, of course,
Mahler revised his scores, particularly the orchestration, once he heard
them. This suggests an experimental attitude toward orchestration.
My contribution is a little more off the track. I have the sneaky
feeling that a composer who knows *exactly* what his piece will sound like
before he actually hears it is perhaps not working at his peak. A composer
who knows *exactly* is very likely a composer who has simply reproduced
something he's heard before. He's not exploring or pushing himself or
taking the chance that he will pull off something wonderful and new. Does
a composer *have* to do this? Of course not. But doesn't there remain a
feeling of roads not taken, possibilities not explored, El Dorados never
looked for?
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:11:57 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
Didrik Schiele wrote:
>That depends what you want. It is a sad story right, but as a
>symphonical Building it is very impressive. It goes back on the
>traditional sonata-form (Act I) while being integrated in the plot. So
>that the Majors marchmusic is the Scheromovement and so on. The Interlude
>to Act III is the most powerful music I ever encountered from this style.
>Though Berg as a general rule doesn't sound as much 12-tone as he is.
Since Wozzeck isn't a dodecaphonic work at all, I'm not sure what was the
point of your last remark. The opera doesn't sound 12-tone because it
isn't. (*If* there is such thing as "12-tone sound".) And when Berg used
dodecaphony, he did so rather loosely anyway.
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:36:03 -0200
From: Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
I experience only two very strong visual associations while listening to
music:
Beethoven will always show me fields, hills, rivers, skys, and specially,
sunsets with his codas. Curiously, the Pastoral Symphony is not the most
effective in this sense. Some of his late works make me experience a
suspension of disbelief.
Chopin is sure to make me imagine melancholic urban scenes, specially the
Nocturnes and preludes.
Marcelo Ramos Araujo <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:48:34 -0500
From: William Hong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Hilliard "Morimur" Recording
"Morimur"
J. S. Bach: Partita in D minor, BWV 1004 for Unaccompanied Violin, and
various Chorales
Soloists from the Hilliard Ensemble (Monika Mauch, soprano; David James,
countertenor; John Potter, tenor; Gordon Jones, baritone)
Christoph Poppen, Baroque violin
ECM New Series 1765
This recording has been one of the more controversial CDs of the past year.
Whether one accepts the main point of its treatise may be a matter of
faith, though not so much in a religion (as it was for Bach), as in the man
himself.
For those who haven't heard of it, the basic idea behind this record comes
from papers published by musicologist Helga Thoene at the University of
Duesseldorf. Thoene ties the creation of the autograph manuscript for
Bach's Partita for Unaccompanied Violin in D Minor (and to a lesser extent,
the other solo violin Sonatas and Partitas) to the earth-shattering event
in Bach's life in 1720, the death of his first wife, Maria Barbara Bach.
The fact that her death was a total surprise and occurred while he was away
for the summer with the court of Prince Leopold of Anhalt-Coethen (he had
no word of the event until his return home) and its undoubtedly profound
effect on Johann Sebastian, is the basis (so argues Thoene) that the
Partita's monumental Chaconne exists as an elegy to his dead wife. Hence
the CD title "Morimur", which comes from the Latin and roughly means "we
die", though in the context of death as a passage to being reborn.
The notes for the CD go over these ideas in some detail, and are written
both by Thoene and Herbert Glossner. They show as supporting evidence the
use of hidden, or unheard, insertions of various chorale melodies within
the harmonic and melodic structure of the Chaconne. Thus the meat of this
recording is a performance of the Chaconne, with the chorales sung with the
violin part to show how they fit over it. These chorales include "Christ
lag in Todesbanden", "Jesu meine Freunde," "Auf meinen lieben Gott," and
several others. "Christ lag..." is said to be buried, for example, in the
opening passage of the Chaconne, which is of course repeated throughout the
work and at the end. The hymm "Den Tod niemand zwingen kunnt" ("The Death
no one could subdue") is used not only within the Chaconne, but is sung
separately at several significant sequences throughout the CD, one supposes
as a sort of marking motif.
Glossner buttresses the argument by pointing out the "coding" of various
numbers significant to Christianity, via the commonly-used numerical
mechanism known as gematria, among others. This technique assigns numbers
to letters of the alphabet and is applied to the note pitches of the music
(A=1, B=2, and in the German notation, H=8 etc.). Gematria has also been
applied to pieces such as the canon which Bach holds in the Haussman
portrait, where supposedly numerical allusions to 14 (BACH), 41 (JS BACH)
and even 158 (Johann Sebastian Bach) can be discerned. Also significant
are the places where Bach's own signature tagline (the pitches B flat, A,
C, and B natural, or H in German notation) occur within the music, as can
also be seen in the Art of the Fugue.
One of the main arguments that have been advanced against the idea behind
"Morimur" regards the notion that Bach would write "by the numbers". The
very idea seems to strike at the heart of "creativity" as we understand
it now, implying a sort of composition-by-algorithm (if not by computer)
method that enrages some of Thoene's detractors. Certainly one can take
the analysis to extremes, and find "hidden" passages and numerical
allusions in just about any work, if one tried hard enough. In this sense,
I think it's possible to find codes and numericals in Bach's music where
none exist, at least to a provable level of intent on his part. More
information on this subject, and some examples of the opinions that this
topic generates can be found in a discussion at Aryeh Oron's Bach Cantatas
website, specifically:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Topics/Numbers.htm
Beyond this, my limited reading about music in the Baroque era is that the
use of numerical allusions is rather common, though perhaps moreso earlier
in the era rather than later. Philosophically-based allusions, cited in
the sonatas of Biber and Schmelzer, has been a keen subject of study for
example, with many of the "riddles" still unsolved to this day. And of
course, the use of "canned" harmonic progressions was a given in those
times (ostinatos anyone?), depending as they did upon the skill of the
composer to come up with something creative over repeating continuo riffs.
Similarly, there's skepticism that Bach would have written the Chaconne
specifically to imbed hidden cantus firmus chorales within the complexities
of the arpeggiation and multiple stopping--for what purpose? Certainly not
as a guide to future performances. So I can agree with the skeptics'
argument to an extent, simply because in the CD, the way in which the
chorales are set with the playing of the solo violin sound to me somewhat
contrived in a few spots. The singing is not continuous, so there are
places in which no chorales are sung, and it's not clear to me in the liner
notes why this would be.
But in the end, one of the reasons why I could find Thoene's thesis
plausible has nothing to do with proofs or analyses of any kind. Rather,
there's simply the towering figure of JSB himself. How possible is it for
any musicologist, let alone regular music lovers, to discern the thought
and creative processes that went on in the mind of the man who IS the
greatest composer in Western musical art tradition? Can any one, from the
perspective of 250 years, conclusively dismiss the idea that a musical mind
of such overwhelming genius and capability was NOT able to write a work
such as the Chaconne with numerical/musical "codes" in it, out of the
hard-wired vision of his mind? Especially if the work was to be written as
a "tombeau" to Maria Barbara? In the end, you can only listen and decide in
your own gut whether it works or not, and whether your own vision of Bach
as a composer fits into this hypothesis.
The "Hilliards" are in this case, just four singers. They sing in a kind
of ethereal manner which may not be to everyone's taste; perhaps "angelic"
might be an appropriate term? But they nonetheless provide a striking vocal
impression as only the Hilliards can, and singers such as John Potter bring
a special sensitivity to Bach. Similarly the recording acoustic (the
monastery of St. Gerold in Austria) is rather reverberant, which means
some of the acoustic details could thus be sharper. But this may have been
done as much for balance reasons as anything, especially when the singers
and the violin perform together.
As for Christoph Poppen's violin playing, I cannot fault it, though I'm not
familiar with many other available recordings of the work to compare. The
tracks of each movement of the Partita are separated by chorales, but you
can program your CD player to give you an integrated performance of the
Partita itself. And one hears the great Chaconne twice; first in its
traditional, violin-only version, as well as the version with the
interpolated voices. Poppen's Chaconne is taken at a slower pace than
other HIP versions of which I'm aware; his performance at over 14 minutes
compares to Sigiswald Kuijken's more brisk 1980s recording at just over 11
minutes. But Poppen's playing is definitely no less impressive for either
virtuosity or expressiveness. For example, the "bass" notes that lead into
the extended arpeggiation near the end of the opening D minor section
(about 5 1/2 minutes into the track) are given a weight and an almost human
voicing that provides a palpable feeling of mourning. So even Poppen's
solo instrumental version of this work reflects the treatise behind
"Morimur".
Perhaps the recording, which is rather short by CD standards, could have
provided both a better value and a more convincing case for Thoene's ideas
if it had included a second, interactive CD-ROM that discussed in even
greater detail what's given in the album notes (not to mention larger,
easier-to-read texts!). For example, a complete score of the Chaconne with
the hidden chorale passages inserted (and just maybe, a tutorial on why
the passages wouldn't have worked elsewhere in the score, thus supporting
the interpolations made in the recording) would have been useful. More
information would also have been enlightening on how the other movements of
the Partita fit into Thoene's hypothesis, along with the hidden chorales
and other numerological/theological ties to be found in the other solo
violin Sonatas/Partitas.
In the meantime, I hope that those people who buy this CD out of word of
mouth and curiosity, but who aren't otherwise familiar with the whole body
of Bach's solo instrumental works will be drawn in to further explore this
music. Suffice for me to say that, whether the ideas are valid or not, I
probably will never again listen to this music in the same way.
Bill H.
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:17:46 +0100
From: Mats Norrman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
In Halberstadt in Eastern Germany, a new piece by John Cage "ORGAN2/ASLSP"
has been started to be played. In 639 years (!!!) a windorgan shall
produce the sounds of the piece under generations of musicians, is the
thought. The piece consists of 8 movements, each take 71 years to play,
and at each new tone, a Cage-Symposium shall be held. Right now is a pause
in the piece, which lasts until february 2003, when a E-Major chord sets
in.
I have written on the list about this before, but most people probably held
it for an example of my usual stupidity. But it is the leading papers
stupidity to (if not all worlds):
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/kultur/story/0,2789,118773,00.html
(Article in Swedish from "Aftonbladet" Tue 8 Jan 2002).
Mats Norrman
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:00:26 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Music is Good for the Soul AND Body!
A friend sent this to me. Thought it might be of interest...
Best Note To Swallow - from The Washington Post
The ensemble has nine musicians and one cook, and after a one-hour
performance, they eat their instruments. The First Vienna Vegetable
Orchestra blows carved-out carrots, taps turnips, claps with eggplant
cymbals and rustles parsley and greens, all in the creation of an
experimental sound that eventually winds up....literally....in the
audience's stomachs. As the concert progresses, the musicians toss
their instrumentsinto a pot, which the cook stirs....rhythmically,
of course. After a finale of loud pureeing, listeners and musicians
feast on the fare that has resulted from this smorgasbord of sound.
Karl
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:53:06 -0800
From: John Grant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
"Donald Satz" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Donald asks of Taussig's "Art of the Fugue": How does it work?
"How does it work? I'm hardly knowledgeable about these matters, but it
all seems viable. Taussig starts by putting the music into the computer
which drives the Pro 9. He then engages in a process called "musical
sculpting" which he controls with a special computer mouse. Taussig can
then invest each note with the precise volume, length, and relationship
to the beat/rhythm. Once this task is complete, the results are sent by
internet to a recording studio where a similar instrument is activated
and the recording made. Where this process appears superior to a live
performance is that each voice is recorded separately with every note
quite audible and pronounced. Now that the Taussig Art of Fugue has
been recorded, he is working on a recording of the complete Well
Tempered Clavier which should be released in a few months."
In short, Taussig's Art of the Fugue is a MIDI production, although he
used the phrase "musical sculpting" to describe it.
MIDI is considered NON-music by many, many pianists. I do not share that
view, since what ultimately matters to me from an aesthetic standpoint is
the END PRODUCT, not the process by which it was created!
John Grant
http://www.mp3.com/stations/bach_wtc_1_part1
http://www.mp3.com/stations/wtc2
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:30:31 -0000
From: Martin Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nordic Music for Wind Band
This is a query I've just bounced off the Scandinavian-music list - but I
don't doubt I'll get some bright ideas from you folk, too. An acquaintance
of mine has asked for recommendations for Nordic music for windband. He is
interested in large-scale, original pieces (not arrangements). I have made
a few suggestions (not least Egil Hovland's Fanfare and Chorale) but
wondered what suggestions you lot might also have.
Cheers
Martin Anderson
Toccata Press
www.drakeint.co.uk/toccata-press
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:55:36 -0000
From: Sam Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Strauss' Men - Are They Mensch?
Walter Meyer wrote:
>I don't know all of Strauss' operas but the slighting of males seems to be
>characteristic of all those that I do know.
>
>They seem to be either relegated to background figures, made to appear
>ridiculous, or sung by women. I'm thinking of, in addition to *Frau ohne
>Schatten*, *Rosenkavalier*, *Elektra* (Orestes isn't really whom the opera
>is about), *Salome* (it's her opera, not Jokanaan's), and *Ariadne auf
>Naxos*.
I always assumed that this was because Strauss had a minor (serious?)
obsession with the soprano voice, and so had a penchant for giving as many
parts as possible to these singers. I've heard the 4 Last Songs described
more than once on broadcasts as 'the culmination of Strauss's life-long
love affair with the soprano voice' or something similar.
Indeed, during the intermission of the recent Met. broadcast of
'Arabella', I seem to remember the broadcaster informing us that the
composer had to be reassured by his librettist that there *was* a big
soprano role in the opera after Hoffsmansthal had apparently put too much
emphasis on the part of Matteo (?) in a letter. Or something like that.
Best Wishes,
Sam
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:48:39 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair:
>Do we have any other Finzi fans on the List?
Yes, indeed. I agree with you about the cello concerto which I first
encountered in Yo-Yo Ma's Lyrita version - I think it was his debut
recording. I also love the Introit for Violin and Orchestra, the
Soliloquies from Love's Labour's Lost, and Dies Natalis.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:25:04 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair:
>I first got to know Finzi through some of his church Anthems such as God
>is gone up with a merry shout
Actually, God is gone up with a triumphant shout.
>Do we have any other Finzi fans on the List?
Count me in. There are probably others. I first encountered Finzi on
A Janet Baker LP of English songs. It's been transferred to CD, which
I reviewed for www.classical.net. I gradually heard more and more songs
(including the glorious cantata Die Natalis, to words by Traherne), then
sang some choral pieces, and finally heard the major instrumental works.
There's a beautiful clarinet concerto as well. Although he and Vaughan
Williams admired each other's work, the melodic style of Finzi is all his
own.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:12:57 -0700
From: Jane Erb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Oh my, yes! I've known and loved the Finzi Cello Concerto since Yo-Yo Ma
recorded it on LP for Lyrita as a very young performer. While I like Tim
Hugh's performance, on first hearing of the Naxos recording I felt that
perhaps the cello was miked a little low. I have to listen again to see
if perhaps it was just my mood of that day.
I am, BTW, equally pleased with Peter Donohoe's recordings of the Grand
Fantasia and Toccata and the Eclogue on the same CD.
Jane Erb
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:39:39 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
I'm not a huge Finzi fan; but if you particularly like the Cello Concerto
you might want to check out Donald Tovey's monster (60m+) Cello Concerto,
which was written for Casals. Finzi's score is very much a successor to
Tovey's (as indeed Tovey's concerto is a successor to Elgar's & - less
nationalistically - the Dvorak); & the composer studied Tovey's concerto
closely before making his own attempt at the form, even to the point of
playing through the score with one of his students.
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:41:41 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair wrote:
>Do we have any other Finzi fans on the List?
Of course, I am one for sure. I bought the very same disc Stuart did,
and I agree wholeheartedly. I liked the two pianopieces even better than
the cello concerto. Stuart, you should buy, also on Naxos, the clarinet
concerto, also on this disc some shorter works, e.g. the five bagatelles,
the piano part arranged for strings, and very nicely so all brilliantly
playd by (Robert or Richard I can never remember his Christian name) Plane.
Peter Wisse
The Hague
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:10:50 -0000
From: Nicholas J Roberts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Absolutely - Dies Natalis - a piece to die for!
Nick
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:08:34 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair asks:
>Do we have any other Finzi fans on the List?
Most certainly. Although I haven't ventured yet into Finzi's vocal and
choral works, I find his instrumental works highly rewarding. His Clarinet
Concerto has been a favorite of mine for many years; works for the clarinet
tend to have a very soothing effect on me, and Finzi's lyricism draped in
a 20th century sensibility is irresistable. His violin concerto is also a
winner.
Concerning the Cello Concerto, I plan on reviewing the Naxos versions
along with the new one from Chandos which also has the Leighton Cello
Concerto. Although the former major companies have sort of 'abandoned the
ship', there's still more great product than ever. Also, the former major
companies never did pay much attention to Finzi or most other relatively
low-recognition composers.
Don Satz
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:54:24 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Granville Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer and other Goodies
Stuart Sinclair:
>I wonder if any other members of the list are familiar with this composer.
My copy of Thalaba the Destroyer is becalmed somewhere between the UK
and here, but I can recommend strongly the other Hyperion CDs in the
Bantock series, especially the one with the Pagan Symphony which is
thrillingly orchestrated, has some wonderful big tunes and is about 35
minutes of shameless joyful wallow; there's also an extraordinary section
for percussion. Bantock is one of those composers who give the lie to the
idea that neglected composers probably deserve to be.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:51:44 -0500
From: Rodney DeCecco <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Granville Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer and other Goodies
I believe there used to be a Granville Bantock Society in the Boston
area some years back. Anyone on this list have more info?
Rod DeCecco
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:23:03 -0500
From: "William F. Dishman" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Granville Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer and other Goodies
I recently obtained the Thalaba CD after having become somewhat familiar
with Bantock's music. Several Chandos CD's are of his music. Personally
I enjoy them very much. I am somewhat surprised he is not more well known
as I find his music quite appealing. Orchestration especially is fine
IMHO.
Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:23:17 -0500
From: Bernard Savoie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Having been involved in contemporary music performance and writing (I
have done a fair amount of copy work for composers) for the last 20 years
I have experienced several situations where playing the right notes is
inconsequential to the overall effect which the composer wants to achieve.
Actually, I have had numerous occasions to debate with composers the use
of very specific, complex writting where the same general effect could
have been achieved by a more aleatoric style of writing. Even some 'tonal'
composers, such as Alan Hovhaness, have realized the power of using this
type of technique to create some of his background colouring in his
orchestral works. The point I am trying to make is that precise pitch
and/or rhythmic use is not necessarily the primary concern of the composer,
especially in a truly atonal piece (then again, the case we are dealing
with may also be, pure and simply, major incompetence on the part of the
composer and/or the conductor).
All this discussion about tonal vs atonal should ultimately focus on
matters of aesthetics rather than the abuse of any technical matter.
The use of serialism, or chance music, or improvisation, or modality, or
microtonality, or even tonality are simply tools which composers have at
there disposal to create soundscapes. With these and many other tools, a
good composer can invest himself in expressing his concepts and emotions
and a great composer can carry the listener with him in this conceptual
and emotional world.
Someone mentioned the need for "beauty" in their musical experience.
But this is a rather naive expectation for any form of art. An artist, in
the true sense of the word, tries to explore all the experiences of human
existence. This includes the darker sides of human spirit as well as the
higher ones. Examples of this can be found throughout human history in
paintings, sculpture, litterature, theatre as well as music. There are
several levels of music appreciation and I agree that if your main concern
is to be entertained, then a lot of what we may consider as modern music
does not fit that bill. But if your aim is to be open to the human
experience on all levels, then there is certainly a wide variety of musical
works from the last century and in this one which can certainly offer you
a dose fo human experience which would be worthwhile to explore.
I feel sorry for those who feel compeled to abnegate all but a very
narrow view of the world. Tonality, as it seems to be defined here, is
only around 500 years old and was focused on European tradition until the
mid 19th-century. This leaves out a lot of human history, cultures and
music. I personally am quite happy to live in a world where technology and
communications allows me to hear and investigate such a wide variety of
musical explorations and experiences. I hope those who don't appreciate
this now will eventually awaken to the whole spectre of music which
surrounds us, which includes a whole lot of non-tonal music.
Bernard Savoie
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:45:37 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Steve Schwartz wrote:
>My contribution is a little more off the track. I have the sneaky
>feeling that a composer who knows *exactly* what his piece will sound like
>before he actually hears it is perhaps not working at his peak. A composer
>who knows *exactly* is very likely a composer who has simply reproduced
>something he's heard before. He's not exploring or pushing himself or
>taking the chance that he will pull off something wonderful and new. Does
>a composer *have* to do this? Of course not. But doesn't there remain a
>feeling of roads not taken, possibilities not explored, El Dorados never
>looked for?
One of my favorite questions of composers..."what percent of your work do
you see as speculative?" When I was active composing, I always wrote a few
things that were speculative, I wondered how they might turn out. Perhaps
this is most true when one is beginning, but I would agree that it is
important to reach and gamble some.
As to the responses from composers, the one I remember best was the most
curious to my mind. Henry Brant said the after having been writing all
of these years he knew exactly what to expect at all times. I find that
a curious response from a composer noted for the "experimental" nature of
his music. I often wondered if his response was defensive.
Karl
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:54:20 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Steve Schwartz wrote:
>... I have the sneaky feeling that a composer who knows *exactly* what
>his piece will sound like before he actually hears it is perhaps not
>working at his peak. A composer who knows *exactly* is very likely a
>composer who has simply reproduced something he's heard before. He's not
>exploring or pushing himself or taking the chance that he will pull off
>something wonderful and new. Does a composer *have* to do this? Of course
>not. But doesn't there remain a feeling of roads not taken, possibilities
>not explored, El Dorados never looked for?
IMO, it depends; I have amazed orchestras by hearing a wrong note deep in
the texture, and being able to immediately identify it as a misprint in
the printed part to my score; on the other hand, sometimes I have found
misprints long after a performance that I never noticed when a piece was
played.
There is a hierarchy of important sounds in any music; well-known and good
pieces can suffer a conductor to widely vary what the relative importance
of lines and notes are, and still sound good; new music probably suffers
more from either a mistaken accidental set of relative importances, or, in
good early performances, new music still suffers from being "only" what the
composer had in mind.
William Copper composer of Lovelife Dances
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:17:51 -0000
From: Sam Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Steve Schwarz wrote:
>This in turn jogged a memory of an article by Donald Mitchell: "Mahler:
>A Wrong Note Righted." Apparently, a wrong note had been written in the
>final manuscript, printed in the score, and played for years in "Das Lied,"
>and no one (obviously, not even Mahler) had noticed. And, of course,
>Mahler revised his scores, particularly the orchestration, once he heard
>them. This suggests an experimental attitude toward orchestration.
But the composer never heard 'Das Lied': first performance was in Munich,
1911, after his death. He must presumably have played it through himself
at the piano, but I suppose if you've actually written a work you're only
using the score as a guide, not reading every note from it?
Meanwhile, just because a composer can remember every note of a piece
doesn't mean it came to him 'just-so'. But my opinion of composers who
the music just poured out of is in 100% agreement with Steve's: hence the
difference between Haydn and Mozart (IMHO), the former having to pray for
inspiration then labouring over his work and producing masterpieces, the
latter just writing it down off the top of his head then not being too
bothered when 'a few notes fall under the table'.
Best Wishes,
Sam
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:56:44 -0800
From: Jon Gallant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
Walter Meyer wrote:
>The one exception may be the Disney/Fantasia version of Dukas' "Sorcerer's
>Apprentice", but none of the other episodes from that film, which I love
>its own right, have affected how I listen to the other works it excerpts.
I had somewhat the same experience, demonstrating the powerful influence
Walt Disney had on us children. After many, many years, I finally got over
seeing dinosaurs while listening to "Le Sacre". But to this day I cannot
hear the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" (a charming score) without the image of
Mickey Mouse with a mop rising before my eyes.
Jon Gallant [[log in to unmask]] Dr. Phage
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:02:21 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
When I listen to the movement of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra with the
satirical reference to the march theme of Shostakovich's 7th symphony, I
get a Disney cartoon in my head with anthropomorphized brass instruments
laughing and squawking at a marching band that finally turns tail and runs.
When I listen to the first movement of Shostakovich's violin concerto, I
picture dark rainy urban streets through which a KGB vehicle slowly prowls.
Sometimes when I listen to Baroque or Classical music, I get images of
formally dressed listeners seated in some palatial residence attended by
bewigged servants while they watch bewigged musicians.
But generally I find that I do not get strong visual associations
with music. I think one of the things that appeals so much to me about
classical music is how it conveys so much emotion so abstractly and for the
most part I do not feel the need to visualize anything to experience that
emotional impact.
Regards,
John Parker
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:19:13 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
Having initiated this thread and reading the subsequent postings, I think
I may have inadvertently given the impression that I routinely conjure up
visual images when listening to music.
Such is not the case. It happens only when all the right conditions are in
place, and that's not very often. The music itself has to greatly stir me,
the performance has to be at least exceptional, and my body and mind have
to be 100% glued to the music with no thoughts of any other areas of life.
This last condition is the least likely to be present.
Some posters have indicated that maximizing the listening rewards does
not have to entail any visual imagery. Since this is a very personal
and subjective matter, I take no exception to that view. But for me, the
greatest rewards definitely involve visual imagery which might be very
positive or negative in nature.
Don Satz
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:18:34 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
David Harbin asked for...
>...5 top CD 'finds' in the last year.
I'll also go beyond five CDs; in no special order...
Frank Martin (1890-1974): Polyptyque, for Violin and two small string
orchestras; Etudes for String Orchestra; Sonata da Chiesa, for viola and
string orchestra. Munich Chamber Orchestra/Hans Stadlmair; Gottfried
Schneider, violin; J Reiber, viola d'amore. Koch/Schwann 3-6732-2 [60:27]
All top-drawer music by one of the greats.
'Harpsichord Concertos of the 20th Century' by Francaix, Martinu, Jelinek
& Farkas (Eva Braito w.Bratislava Chamber Orch. *& Artemis Ensemble
Vorarlberg/ Kantschieder) Koch/Schwann 3-1422-2). All but the Martinu
gem, here in an illuminating reading, were new to me; fine works, esp.
the Francaix (whose double bass concerto I'd probably kill for).
Alberto Ginastera: Harp Concerto; Estancia; PC#1 (ASV DCA 654) This CD
went some way in restoring my confidence in Ginastera, after repeated
disappointment with so much of his later music.
Rozsa's Tripartita for Orchestra (as well as Gould's Folk Suite; Menotti's
Triplo Concerto a Tre; Lavry's Emek: Harmonia Mundi HMU 900010). The rest
is also fine music (the LSO under Amos), but sad to realize that this may
be my last taste of an unfamiliar Miklos Rozsa masterwork.
Taking a leaf from the Chasan book, viz., two CDs as one entry: Leonardo
Balada (b 33), both on Naxos: concertos for guitar, flute, piano and
violin, a Sardana, the intriguing Fantasias Sonoras, and more. My big find
of the year in the area of living composers.
As for those dead -- from a list that also included Gerhard, KA Hartmann,
Tveitt, Distler and Genzmer -- it's got to be Bernard Stevens (d. 1983).
I await a fourth disk of chamber works, but would put the CD with his PC,
Dance Suite, and orch. Variations (Marco Polo 8.223480) at the current
top of my Stevens preference pile.
Britten: a cappella works by the Quink Vocal Ensemble (Etcetera KTC 1017).
Apart from the VC and a handful of other works, I'd been wondering what all
the fuss was about. Now I know.
Bert Bailey
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:34:16 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Jim Lee replies to me:
>>>1. Bernstein: A White House Cantata. Hampson, Anderson, Hendricks,
>>>Tarver, LSO/Nagano. What became of Bernstein and Alan Jay Lerner's 1600
>>>Pennsylvania Avenue, the musical never finished.
>
>Unfortunately it was finished.
>
>1. Opened May 4th, 1976.
>2. Panned (rightfully because of the book)
>3. Closed the following Saturday night after 7 performances.
Well, that's what I get for skimming the notes.
Thanks for the correction.
Steve
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:54:07 +0900
From: David Cozy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Steve Schwartz mentions as one of his finds of 2001 the following:
>Britten: Lachrymae; Hindemith: Viola Sonata op. 11/4; Shostakovich:
>Viola Sonata. Silverthorne/Constable. Koch 3-7270-2.
I was unable to find it at the Amazon five-and-dime, and I had no better
luck at the Koch site. Any suggestions on where one might track it down?
Thanks,
David Cozy <[log in to unmask]>
[Try here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006KIU/
-Dave]
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:54:27 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
David Harbin wrote:
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
No commentary for the sake of brevity...
Classical:
Bruckner, Symphony No. 3, Vanska, Hyperion CDA67200
Bach, Suites for Unaccompanied Cello Nos. 1, 2, 5, Meyer (double bass),
Sony SK 89183
Liszt, Rediscovered Liszt Recital, Bolet, BMG RCA 09026-63748-2
Du Fay, Mass for St. Anthony of Padua, Pomerium, Archiv 447 772-2
Ockeghem, Missa Prolationum, The Clerks' Group, ASV Gaudeamus CD GAU 143
Pettersson, Symphony No. 7, Dorati, Symphony No. 16, Ahronovitch,
Swedish Society SCD 1002
Atterberg, Piano Concerto, Violin Concerto, Smith, Bergqvist, Andersson,
Sterling CDS-1034-2
Barber, Meyer, Violin Concertos, Hahn, Wolff, Sony SK 89029
Rouse, Tan Dun, Guitar Concertos, Isbin, Tang, Teldec New Line 8573-81830-2
Legnani, 36 Capricci Op. 20, Saracino, Nuovo Era 7239
And to broaden your horizons, some nonclassical stuff as well:
Lara and Reyes, Riverwalk, Higher Octave Music HOMCD 45624
Enya, A Day without Rain, Reprise 9 47426-2
Chico Hamilton, The Further Adventures of El Chico, Impulse MVCJ-19161
Sandy Bull, Inventions, Vanguard 79520-2
Chris Botti, Night Sessions, Columbia CK 85753
Soulstance, Truth Simplicity and Love, Shakti 72438-10889-2-0
Marilyn Crispell w/Gary Peacock and Paul Motian, Amaryllis, ECM 1742
Lucinda Williams, Sweet Old World, Elektra/Chameleon 61351-2
Lucinda Williams, Essence, Lost Highway 088 170 197-2
Chris Isaak, Wicked Game, Reprise 7599-26513-2
"Len Fehskens" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:30:37 +0000
From: Christopher Webber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Dave Harbin asks:
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
>
>Please share your 5 top CD 'finds' in the last year.
1. Bernard Stevens: Violin Concerto, Symphony No.2
BBC PO; Ernst Kovacic (vln.); Edward Downes (con.) Meridian CDE 84174
I'd been looking forward to making this one's acquaintance, and have fallen
in love with the concerto, a half-hour work combining the lyricism of the
Walton, with the spiritual progress of the Rubbra. Music of undoubted
stature, technically superb, growing on acquaintance; why is this composer
so neglected?
2. Jan Novak: Dido, Mimus Magicus. Marilyn Schmiege (mez.); Herbert
Fiedler (narr.); Bavarian Radio Male Choir and SO, c. Rafael Kubelik.
Audite 97.457
My first encounter with the 'other' Novak. "Dido" is a Latin cantata
drawing on the sound-worlds of Stravinsky's "Oedipus" and Bartok's
"Cantata Profana", but with its own gritty harmonic consistency, rolling
rhythms and gripping sense of drama. Riveting stuff!
3. Red Leaves. Saxton: Birthday Piece for Richard Rodney Bennett,
Elijah's Violin; Lutyens: Six Bagatelles, O Saisons, O Chateaux; McCabe:
Red Leaves; Malcolm Williamson: Symphony No.7 for Strings. Brunel
Ensemble; Teresa Cahill (sop.); Christopher Austin (con.) CALA the edge
CACD77005
The sort of mixed concert that is usually anathema to me on CD, but this
one is so satisfyingly programmed and intelligently executed that I've
found myself taking it down from the shelf (or rather picking it off the
floor, having completely run out of shelf space in 2001) again and again.
The Lutyens are darkly poetic 12-tone beauties; Saxton's "Elijah's Violin"
a colourful and compulsively dramatic orchestral showpiece; the - latest -
williamson symphony is a marvel of virtuoso scoring and dangerous living
in this, his 70th birthday year.
4. Dvorak: Moravian Duets & Suk: Ten Songs Op.15. Bambini di Praga;
L.Cermakova, J.Saroun (pno.); Bohumil Kulinsky (con.) Multisonic 31
0111-2
The soprano-alto duets which made Dvorak famous, quite magically performed
by the Prague childrens' choir. The luminous clarity of these deceptively
simple strophic songs provides enduring soul comfort, and endless musical
satisfaction. The songs by his son-in-law are almost equally rich. My
most-played purchase of the year - and from a Music Discount Centre bargain
bin for 1.99 Pounds!
5. Aarre Merikanto: Piano Concertos 2 & 3; Two Studies for Small
Orchestra; Two Pieces for Orchestra (1941). Matti Raekallio (pno);
Tampere PO; Tuomas Ollila (con.) Ondine ODE 915-2
Two exhilarating, tuneful late concertos which would make a refreshing
change from Prokofiev in concert programmes. The third is specially
ear-catching, with a repeated bird-call motif which is woven most cleverly
into the texture. Enjoyable music, performed with relish.
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.nashwan.demon.co.uk/zarzuela.htm
"ZARZUELA!"
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:33:37 -0800
From: "Douglas S. Sparling" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
>David Harbin wrote:
>
>Dear All, What CDs did you discover in 2001?
Bax: Symphony No. 2/November Woods. Naxos 8.554093
I've been a fan of Delius for years, but somehow I never stumbled onto Bax
until 2001. What a treat!
"Douglas S. Sparling" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:40:43 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
I also discovered the Balada Piano Concerto together with his Guitar
Concerto and Flute Concerto I find the Music very stimulating. It is quite
refreshing to dicover modern classical music which I find challenges the
listener. Like Peter, I also discovered Kaleidoscope, which although I
ordered it before Christmas, did not arrive till early this month. Some
of the pieces found there, are really quite delightful. It is a CD I will
continually go back to I think.
Regards
Stuart
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 23:54:25 -0000
From: Richard Todd <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Atonal Music for Newbies
Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]> said:
>If you want to annoy the neighbours with some harder edged stuff: try
>Penderecki; Searle; XIAN Xinghai; Parch
'Scuse me, but what's so hard-edged about Searle. I usually fob him off on
people who think they could never like atonal music. Only I don't mention
it's atonal at first.
Richard, who invites you to visit his classical music site at
http://opuspocus.ca
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:13:59 -0500
From: Tim Dickinson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Atonal Music for Newbies
Satoshi Akima wrote:
>... that intuitive 'feel' for his music has obviously overcome any
>theoretical technical difficulty any 'novice' is supposedly meant to have:
>Love conquers all. Although it can be strange the sort of things you can
>come to love, ...
So apparently love is not only blind but also deaf. ;-)
Tim Dickinson
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:18:26 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I could easily quote many composers of that list as examples of the
>opposite case.
Most of these statements derive more from literally Romanticised mythology
than real facts; which is why the nonsense of the artist neglected in his
- it's almost always a his - own lifetime has been so hard to erradicate.
>It depends on what do we mean with "recognition". Bach was highly
>appreciated during his lifetime as an organist and improviser, but not
>much more.
... & as a teacher, of course. Fairly significant recognition - the
claim that JSB was neglected has more to with the fact that most of his
contemporaries considered Telemann the superior composer; not that the
father of PDQ Bach was some kind of musical lightweight.
>After his death he was remembered and honored like a fossil by his
>"didactical" works (the WTK, for example) and by having been the effective
>cause of his much more illustrious sons.
This is true; but irrelevant to the argument. JSB wasn't neglected in his
own lifetime; so it hardly matters whether he lost ground after his death.
Many artists do.
>Mozart died poor like a rat, a fact that speaks by itself about his
>"recognition" among his contemporaries.
Unmitigated claptrap based on some really lousy 19th century fantasies &
repeated in Amadeus. Mozart spend the last few years working successfully
as a freelance composer; & died leaving a significant estate.
>Schubert is an analogue case, with the difference that he didn't enjoy a
>single period of real good fortune in his whole life. At his death he was
>recognized only by a circle of friends. I don't need to insist on the
>diameter of such circle.
No: he only lived with the beautiful people of Vienna; & survived
successfully on commissions without having to resort to regal patronage.
More romantic nonsense.
>Bruckner was recognized by his contemporaries only at his mature years,
>after being neglected and humiliated by critics, colleagues, conductors
>and players.
Bruckner's symphonies were all published in his lifetime; & the composer
lived quite comfortably as a teacher. Although we disagree with the
reasoning, the cuts made to Bruckner's scores were made by people who
admired the composer, to broaden the appeal... not - as is sometimes
misrepresented - to save them.
>Mahler had to fight *really* hard during his whole life for his
>recognition as a composer.
Only because he was so massively praised as a conductor (when Coleridge
Taylor was called the Black Mahler by the NYPO, this was the greatest
compliment that illustrious band could give him). Many of his scores did
achieve independent popularity during his lifetime, though: Resurrection,
in particular.
>Concerning Webern and Schoenberg...well, there are people nowadays (even
>among this list) who doubt that they are really "composers", or at least
>"good composers".
Schoenberg achieved significant critical success & even some popular
success early in his career. Count von Webern - like Scelsi - was
a dilettante who didn't need such things & postured that they were
irrelevant; & is probably only known now because of his association with
his teacher & the circumstances of his timely death.
>There are guys like Haendel, Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Verdi,
>Puccini, who had a certain good luck during their lifetime. Some others
>simply hadn't.
I know of no composer really neglected during his/her own which has been
posthumously rehabilitated into significance; but i know of plenty of
comic strip biographies which have suggested that this has happened. The
artistically restrictive nonsense that neglect is a function of good art
became cancerous in the last century due to tall tales like those you have
just repeated; & the sooner we cast some clinical light on the reality of
the stories, the better our contemporary art will be.
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:20:25 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>When it comes to the sound of either Schoenberg (or a great edeal of him)
>and Stockhausen (all of him) I _know_ that symphony hall audiences, or the
>large majority of 'em, at most abide it and certainly don't react to it as
>they do to anything from Bach to Bruckner. To be sure, there's usually an
>assertive minority around to provide applause for the outre stuff, but a
>color temperature meter of applause, is such existed, would surely rate
>the old canon as hot, and the new glitz as cold. So it goes.
Signifying exactly what? We already know that "modern" music of any idiom
is not very popular - no news there. I assume that Denis is not trying
to prove the inferior status of his unfavorite music on the basis of a
popularity contest. On the same basis any of a dozen rock stars can
"prove" the inferiority of the entire classical music enterprise.
Bernard Chasan
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 22:50:30 -0500
From: Leslie Kinton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Jocelyn Wang wrote in response to me:
>>If this is the level of professionalism Jocelyn's performers show, then
>>shame on her for bragging about it.
>
>Again, someone infers a point of view to me that I do not actually have.
>I was not bragging about it. I was not even condoning it. I was simply
>using it as an example of how atonal works tend to be so cacophonous that,
>even when a player does what the above-mentioned performer did, it stands
>an exellent chance of not even being noticed, a point you, for all your
>rage at what he did, failed to address.
In fact, I did address this issue in a post two days ago to Laurence
Sherwood, where I said in part:
>Whenever I'm teaching an atonal work, even one I don't know well, and a
>student plays a wrong note, most of the time I hear it, even when I'm not
>looking at the score, and even when I don't know ahead of time what the
>note is; in the atonal context, it just sounds wrong. ...
I know *many* others who would "notice" the shenanigans you describe. And
as to your disingenuous "Who me?"... Pl-ease!! Do you really think we're
that stupid? You wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't tacitly approve
of this person's actions.
Leslie Kinton
Piano Faculty, The Glenn Gould Professional School, Toronto.
Anagnoson and Kinton piano duo website: http://www.pianoduo.com
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:18:31 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Thanks to Mimi Ezust for her explanation of what it means to understand
music. Because of her post I will now refrain from claiming that I don't
understand music. What I did not understand was understanding it. My
understanding might not be very sophisticated or technical in nature, but
it's kind of a relief to realize that it's not nonexistent.
Regards
John Parker
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:58:40 +0100
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Pablo Massa wrote:
>Mozart died poor like a rat, a fact that speaks by itself about his
>"recognition" among his contemporaries.
The myth of poor and starving Mozart, who died lonely and forgotten is
very persistent but simply not true. Mozart was in rather normal financial
conditions when he died (well, at least one could not use the expression
"poor as a rat") and belongend to Viennas upper middle class. He left upon
his death quite a large household, containing not only tons of furniture
but also a couple of servants. This was thoroughly researched by Volkmar
Braunbehrens and published in his book "Mozart in Vienna: 1781-1791"
(Munchen: R. Piper GmbH & Co. KG, 1986; New York: Grove Weidenfeld,
1990). We had a thread about this topic ("Poor Mozart") some years ago,
but for some reason I can not find it anymore in the list archieves.
Achim Breiling
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:03:07 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Jocelyn Wang replies to this:
>>Cutting through the subjective response of the listener, atonality simply
>>refers to music which is organized without reference to a tonal center.
...as follows:
>Yes, which has alienated many listeners...
I do sympathize with this aversion: much of this music, especially of the
dodecaphonic variety, hasn't tickled my fancy either, even after giving it
a decent chance (3-6 listens) to musically coalesce in my 'ear.' Jarring,
cool, aloof, emotionally uninvolving, abstract, lacking in heart, academic,
composed as if by abstruse formulations -- some or all of these thoughts
have crossed my mind, and gut, while sampling this music. Friends and
mcmlers speak of the 'passion' in some of this music, its clear roots in
19th century romanticism, etc., which often just leaves me perplexed:
what _are_ they talking about?!
That said, there's what might be called the argument from gray areas:
what of the music at the borders of this 'modernist' tradition? Had I
turned my back on it wholesale, my musical interests would be so much
poorer, as I'd've missed out on Frank Martin, Rautavaara, Ernst Toch,
Grazyna Bacewicz, Sandor Veress, Moishe Vainberg, Harald Genzmer, Alan
Rawsthorne, Benjamin Frankel, Alberto Ginastera, Roberto Gerhard, Ole
Schmidt, Gyorgy Ligeti, and others.
Let's be careful not to blanket out a whole tradition, in short, lest we
be the victims. With the sole exception of Martin, I still can't say that
I enjoy _all_ the music of these composers. But I've found that there's
plenty to like, much of it with passion.
Nor am I about to give up on the Viennese boys, hoping the penny may
still drop. Recent re-explorations of Schonberg give me some hope: my
'discovery' of a 2-CD collection of his choral music certainly hits a
welcome spot (John Shirley-Quirk, Gunther Reich/ Pierre Boulez conducting
the BBC Singers, Chorus & Symphony Orchestra, with members of the London
Sinfonietta (Sony S2K 44571).
Perhaps due to my exposure to this so-called 'gray area,' now even his PC
and the Serenade for Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, Mandolin, Guitar, String
Trio and Bass Voice (Op. 24), and the Chamber Symphony No. 1 (Op 9) are
nowhere even close to cacophony to me.
It may well just be that some of this music requires 8 or 10, or maybe a
few more careful listens.
Bert Bailey
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 01:10:19 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
The First Variation from Schoenberg's Variations for Orchestra op.31 starts
with a "drop-dead" beautiful, haunting melody. The melodic gesture is just
splendid - a sort of a gentle, very graceful bow. It's breathtaking beyond
words. The rest of the work is marvelous, too.
His Piano Concerto has a lot of beautiful melodies, too.
Berg's dodecaphony is what I would call "reluctant"; anyway, the Violin
Concerto is full of gorgeous melodies, starting with the very beginning.
Webern, dodecaphonic or freely atonal, was also a master of subtle,
beautiful melodies. It's extremely hard not to be enchanted by and in awe
of the song "Dies ist ein Lied / fur Dich allein" (and other songs, too,
but this one comes to my mind most often). It's a breath of fresh air in
the garden on a beautiful morning in the spring. (Sorry, I wouldn't have
such visual associations if it wasn't for the poem used by Webern.) It's
the quintessence of the most subtle, gentle lyric.
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:31:49 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Pablo Massa wrote:
>Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>>I can't think of any composer well received after his death who wasn't
>>recognized during his lifetime.
>
>I could easily quote many composers of that list as examples of the
>opposite case. It depends on what do we mean with "recognition". Bach
>was highly appreciated during his lifetime as an organist and improviser,
>but not much more.
Perhaps it does depend upon what you mean by "recognition", but I don't
think I've stretched the concept. Quoting from the Norton/Grove Concise
Encyclopedia of Music, under J.S.Bach:
"Bach['s]....duties [as Thomaskantor in Leipzig] centered on the
Sunday and feastday services at the city's two main churches and
during his early years in Leipzig he composed four or five cantata
cycles, the Magnificat, and the *St John* and *St Matthew Passions*.
He was by this time renowned as a virtuoso organist and in constant
demand as a teacher and an expert in organ construction and design.
His fame as a composer gradually spread more widely when, from 1726
onwards, he began to bring out published editions of some of his
keyboard and organ music....[H]e took over the direction of the
collegium musicum that Telemann had founded in Leipzig in 1702--a
mainly amateur society which gave regular public concerts. For these
Bach arranged harpsichord concertos and composed several large-scale
cantatas, or serenatas, to impress the Elector of Saxony, by whom he
was granted the courtesy title of *Hofcompositeur* in 1736."
>Mozart died poor like a rat, a fact that speaks by itself about his
>"recognition" among his contemporaries.
I thought that myth had been generally dispelled among followers of
Mozart's life. He died, poor, it is true, but only because he was spending
money even faster than he was making it, not anticipating that he might die
before he would be able to make enough (as he most likely would have done)
to repay his debts and actually afford the means up to which he sought to
live.
>Schubert is an analogue case, with the difference that he
>didn't enjoy a single period of real good fortune in his whole life.
While Schubert's life may not have been a happy one, especially towards
its end, and while he may have been lacking in money, he was not lacking
in recognition. By the time of his death (not "long after" his death) he
was widely mourned. For his funeral, his body was borne to St. Joseph's
church where a chorus based upon his "Pax Vobiscum* was sung to new words
by Schober. He was interred in the same cemetery as Beethoven, only
several graves away.
>Bruckner was recognized by his contemporaries only at his mature years,
>after being neglected and humiliated by critics, colleagues, conductors
>and players. Mahler had to fight *really* hard during his whole life for
>his recognition as a composer. Concerning Webern and Schoenberg...well,
>there are people nowadays (even among this list) who doubt that they are
>really "composers", or at least "good composers".
Nevertheless all of them earned recognition within their lifetimes. None
died as an unknown.
I'm curious to hear of a composer, widely played today who was totally
unknown and unappreciated during his lifetime. Even Arriaga, who died ten
days before his 20th birthday, was recognized for his remarkable musical
gifts at least by his teachers at the conservatory.
Walter Meyer
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:55:27 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Achim Breiling wrote:
>The myth of poor and starving Mozart, who died lonely and forgotten is
>very persistent but simply not true. Mozart was in rather normal financial
>conditions when he died (well, at least one could not use the expression
>"poor as a rat") and belongend to Viennas upper middle class. He left upon
>his death quite a large household, containing not only tons of furniture
>but also a couple of servants.
So the story that he was buried in a pauper's grave- not true?
Professor Bernard Chasan
Physics Department, Boston University
[The question simply can't be distilled to a liner note. Mozart's
life in his last year was very complex, especially his professional
and financial dealings. He was anything but a pauper. His career was
in fact taking off, and he was making lots of money, but he was spending
it quickly too on everything from fancy clothes he had to have to hang
with the aristocrats, to spa visits for his sick wife. I strongly
suggest reading H.C. Robbins Landon's "Mozart's Last Year" for a more
complete picture. Landon's "The Golden Years" and "Mozart and Vienna"
also highly recommended. You'll get a significantly different picture
of Mozart's life that has been popularly romanticized. -dave]
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:33:17 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
Fascinating! What was Cage trying to accomplish with this piece? No one
will be able to hear the performance, which, to me, means that it isn't
really music.
"Mike Leghorn" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:03:46 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
Mats:
>In Halberstadt in Eastern Germany, a new piece by John Cage "ORGAN2/ASLSP"
>has been started to be played. In 639 years (!!!) a windorgan shall
>produce the sounds of the piece under generations of musicians, is the
>thought. The piece consists of 8 movements, each take 71 years to play,
>and at each new tone, a Cage-Symposium shall be held. Right now
>is a pause in the piece, which lasts until february 2003, when a E-Major
>chord sets in.
So how does it sound?
Steve Schwartz
[Probably pretty much like a E Major chord. -Dave]
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:53:00 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair wrote:
>... Stuart, you should buy, also on Naxos, the clarinet oncerto, also on
>this disc some shorter works, e.g. the five bagatelles, ...
I have already done that, Peter. The Clarinet concerto is also very
enjoyable as are the Bagatelles.
Peter Wisse
The Hague
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 01:30:02 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
This summer I was called as an emergency last minute (well, two-week)
replacement pianist for a Lieder recital, of Schubert, Brahms, Wolf,
Zaninelli, and Finzi. Definitely the most technically difficult songs
were the Finzi, and my favorites. I fell immediately in love with them
but I had never heard of the composer before and I do not know any of his
other music.
The songs were settings of Shakespeare songs:
Come Away, Come Away Death
Who is Sylvia?
Fear No More the Heat of the Sun
Oh Mistress Mine
It was a Lover and his Lass
I think they were published as a group with the title "Let us Garlands
Bring". My favorite (I hesitate to use the term because they are all so
good) is the It Was a Lover and His Lass, being the most fun both to play
and to listen to. (Oh Mistress Mine is fun to listen to and murder to
play.) I could weep when I play Come Away, Come Away, Death with a good
singer. *All* of the songs have sophisticated yet immensely appealing and
accessible tonalities, wonderful melodies, perfect appropriateness of music
to words; I could go on and on. It's a shame they're not better known. I
sing "It Was a Lover and his Lass" to my two-year-old and he goes quiet and
listens.
What recordings of these should I look into? Also, considering I like these
songs so much, where should I continue with Finzi?
Michael Cooper
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:18:45 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair:
>Do we have any other Finzi fans on the List?
Yes. Haven't seen any mention of the Eclogue for Piano and Orchestra.
len.
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:03:35 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Granville Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer and other Goodies
Richard Pennycuick wrote:
>My copy of Thalaba the Destroyer is becalmed somewhere between the UK and
>here, but I can recommend strongly the other Hyperion CDs in the Bantock
>series, especially the one with the Pagan Symphony which is thrillingly
>orchestrated, ...
Thank you for that Richard. You will really enjoy Thalaba when it arrives.
I was wondering what to expect but I was delighted with it. I also have
the Hebridean Symphony on Naxos which I have found very enjoyable as well.
I will obtain the Pagan Symphony. Sir Arthur Sullivan is also another one
of those neglected composers in my view. (I do not count Gilbert and
sullivan!)
Cheers
Stuart
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 07:50:30 -0500
From: "William F. Dishman" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Granville Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer and other Goodies
After checking more carefully, the recordings are on the Hyperion Label
rather than Chandos.
Celtic symphony
Fifne at the Fair
Hebridean Symphony
Helena
Pagan Symphony
Sea Reivers
Witch of Atlas
Sorry for the mishap.
Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:42:57 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Steve Schwartz ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>This in turn jogged a memory of an article by Donald Mitchell: "Mahler:
>A Wrong Note Righted." Apparently, a wrong note had been written in the
>final manuscript, printed in the score, and played for years in "Das Lied,"
>and no one (obviously, not even Mahler) had noticed.
Steve, while not wishing to disagree with your basic tenet (and wasn't
there an occasion when Schoenberg was asked what a particular note should
be and had to consult the score) but Mahler died before Das Lied (and the
9th) were performed. He never heard a note of either.
>And, of course, Mahler revised his scores, particularly the orchestration,
>once he heard them. This suggests an experimental attitude toward
>orchestration.
Partly; it also reflected a certain perfectionism IMHO.
>My contribution is a little more off the track. I have the sneaky
>feeling that a composer who knows *exactly* what his piece will sound like
>before he actually hears it is perhaps not working at his peak. ...
I'm sure there are other examples of composers who have remarked, on
hearing others perform their music, that they heard things in it they
never realised were there.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:46:07 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Sam Kemp wrote:
>... But my opinion of composers who the music just poured out of is in
>100% agreement with Steve's: hence the difference between Haydn and Mozart
>(IMHO), the former having to pray for inspiration then labouring over his
>work and producing masterpieces, the latter just writing it down off the
>top of his head then not being too bothered when 'a few notes fall under
>the table'.
Excuse me, but we're back to a very tired and completely false myth.
Mozart labored just as much as Haydn on his music, witness his own words as
well as an enormous number of sketches, drafts, exercises, fragments, etc.
he left. He did not write music down "off the top off his head". The
first scholarly biographer of Mozart, Otto Jahn, wrote already in 1856 that
we are doing Mozart a disservice if we deny the fact that so much hard work
went into Mozart's compositions.
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:34:12 -0800
From: Robert Berkoff <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Dave Harbin asks:
>dear all, what cd's did you discover in 2001? Please share your five top
>cd finds in the last year. They can include any cd released inany year
>provided you discovered them for yourself in 2001.
First of all I have more than five I discovered. I cannot remember all
the cd's i discovered last year. First, I would like to double Steve
Schwartz's discoverey of the viola sonatas of Britten, Hindemith and
Shostakovich. The playing of Silverthorne and Constable impeccable.
A must have. I hope Steve got his at Berkshire. Koch 3-7270-2 I have
discovered two other discs with violas. Kim Kashkashian works of Bartok,
Eotvos and Kurtag. A very flexible, convincing score of the Bartok
concerto for viola and orchestra. eotvos and netherlands radio chamber
orchestra. ecm 1711 Sally Beamish The River (Cello Concerto.), Viola
Concerto, Tam Lin for oboe and orchestra. Philip Dukes, viola, Robert
Cohen, cello, Gordon Hunt, oboe, Swedish chamber orch. ola rudner Bis
971. Beamish is a violist by trade. A beautiful, abstract, tonal disc.
Gordon Jacob, Symphony no. 2. A little symphony, Festival overture,
Munich symphony orch. Bostock.Classico 204 what a wonderful symphony.
beautifully proportioned. A major english symphony John McCabe Symphony
no. 4 "of time and the river", Concerto for flute and orchestra. Emily
Beynon flute, Vernon Handley with BBC symphony orch. If you like Britten,
Tippett and Simpson these works are for you. I also can recommend his
string quartets. Eino Tamberg Symphony no. 2, violin concerto, Symphony
no. 1. Neeme Jarvi, orchestra des Estnischen Rundfunks Antes 31.9075 This
is at the top of my list. This disc hit all my buttons. Quiet beginnings,
tremendous climaxes, all in archlike forms. continuous variations. Maybe
a form of minimalism. Franz Syberg, Slinfonietta, adagio for strings,
symphony, Odense Symphony orch. Tamas Veto,Kontra 32088 This is
fascinating music. Nielsen, Sibelius, Madetoja, Hindemith come to mind.
I have been looking for other works by this composer, but have been unable
to find anything.Maybe a member can recommend additional discs... I have
two soundtracks that I enjoyed this year, Benjamin Frankel Battle of the
Bulge cpo 999 696-2 Bernard Herrmann, Alfred Newman The Egyptian. Just
indulge me one more minute. I have quite a few others but, Ive already
gone over the limit. Just a mention of a few composers that I have also
enjoyed this past year. Lepo Sumera Rautavaara Peterson-Berger Rawsthorne
D'Albert Shostakovich (always) Blomdahl I must stop, I must stop..
Robert Berkoff [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:12:05 -0600
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
My perhaps personally uncharacteristic discoveries, originally introduced at
length--before I lost my message in a time-out:
1. Edgar Meyer. Violin Concerto. Shockingly sweet melody, exciting rhythm,
superb violin playing. Neoclassical style. SONY SK89029.
2. Aaron Rabushka. Concerto Vocale: Salmo 126. Also neoclassical, with a
most surprising polka and a soloist who is just right. Vienna Modern Masters
Music from six Continents 2000 Series. VMM 3050.
3. Margaret Sheldon Meier. Mass for the Third millenium. Also VMM 3050.
Fresh phrases.
4. Arvo Part. Alina. Two beautiful themes, played by piano alone and with
violin or cello, go a long way. ECM 1591.
5. Vaughan Williams. Ten Blake Songs. I've loved RVW's music all my life
but never heard this--or anything else--for tenor and oboe. Hyperion
CDA67168.
6. Gottfried Heinrich Stoelzel. Christmas Oratorio, Cantatas 6-10. By a
nearly exact contemporary of Bach and Handel, whom I prefer to the latter.
CPO 999735-2.
7. Richard Wilson. Stresses in the Peaceable Kingdom: The Choral Music of
Richard Wilson. More peaceable than stressful except perhaps in Culver
City. (My 1-6 might be more than acceptable even there, I would think.) .One
of four Wilson discs I have meant to review but haven't got to because
that's a lot to chew and because repeated mutual clobbering of the tonalists
and antitonalists here seemed to require careful timing! Albany TROY 333.
Jim Tobin
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:42:52 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
David Cozy:
>>Britten: Lachrymae; Hindemith: Viola Sonata op. 11/4; Shostakovich:
>>Viola Sonata. Silverthorne/Constable. Koch 3-7270-2.
>
>I was unable to find it at the Amazon five-and-dime, and I had no better
>luck at the Koch site. Any suggestions on where one might track it down?
It's out of print. Berkshire Record Outlet lists that it has a copy.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:55:41 -0500
From: Eric Schissel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Well, if you allow multiples of 25 or other natural anniversaries, it's
not a particularly barren year. See a recent similar thread in rmcr (if
I remember...)
Good to see someone mention Huber. As to Stanford, might this anniversary
year finally produce recordings of his string quartets, since no other
year has? The 2nd & 3rd are particularly fine. Some of his other chamber
music has been finding recording in recent memory, but not these works.
Considering that a second symphonic cycle was announced by Naxos 5 years
ago or so (I don't know if they still plan to go ahead with it,) one
recording of some of the better of the quartets might be something to
consider...
(Along with one of the second violin concerto whose existence is claimed
by Grove 5:)?)
-Eric Schissel
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:44:35 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Late Beethoven and Jazz Piano
Michael Cooper ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Mike Leghorn writes:
>
>>What city/country do you live in that has a radio station that plays
>>Beethoven's last piano sonata so frequently? I'd like to move there.
>
>To be honest I heard a (live?) Pollini recording on a Boston station
>while
UNless he's rerecorded it, Pollini's only done one Op.111 and it's a studio
recording.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:13:02 +0100
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nordic Music for Wind Band
Well, the only works that come to my mind now are by Rautavaara: "A
Requiem in Our Time", "A Soldier's Mass" and "Playgrounds for Angels" for
wind/brass orchestra (all recorded by the way on an Ondine CD - ODE 957-2).
But I guess you already thought of these ...
Achim Breiling
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:02:04 -0500
From: John Dalmas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music is Good for the Soul AND Body!
Karl Miller> wrote:
>A friend sent this to me. Thought it might be of interest...
>
>Best Note To Swallow - from The Washington Post
>
>The ensemble has nine musicians and one cook, and after a one-hour
>performance, they eat their instruments. The First Vienna Vegetable
>Orchestra blows carved-out carrots, taps turnips, claps with eggplant
>cymbals and rustles parsley and greens, all in the creation of an
>experimental sound that eventually winds up....literally....in the
>audience's stomachs. ...
This reminds me of the old joke about the three-legged pig who sang opera.
A neighbor hears the pig and comes over to ask what the pig was singing.
"That was Verdi" says the farmer. "Don't he sing it good?"
"Sure 'nough,"said the neighbor, "but say, how come he only got three
legs?"
"Last night he sang Puccini, and the night before serenaded us way past
midnight with the Wagner. Amazing how much opera that pig knows."
"Incredible," said the neighbor, "but you still didn't answer my question.
How come he only got three legs?"
"Well," said the farmer, "with a pig that smart you only want to eat him a
little bit at a time."
John Dalmas
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:45:01 -0500
From: John Kameel Farah <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Performance of Schoenberg's "Pierrot Lunaire"
Theatrical Masterpieces
"The Music of Schoenberg and his Disciples"
Trinity St. Paul's United Church. (On Bloor Street West, one block West
of Spadina)
Sunday, January 13th 2:30pm
Pierrot Lunaire
With Gary Kulesha, conductor and Mireille Lebel, voice; Maria Gacesa,
clarinets; Ken Hall, flute/piccolo; John Farah, piano; Aidan Pendelton
violin/viola; and Raffael Hoekman, cello
Schoenberg Cabaret
With Patricia O'Callaghan, soprano, and Robert Kortgaard, piano
Hans Eisler Cabaret
With Vilma Vitols, mezzo-soprano, and Gregory Oh, piano
Tickets
$10- available at the door one hour prior to show time
John Kameel Farah <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 14:51:28 -0500
From: William Hong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Orchestra of the 17th Century--Concert Announcement (Washington
DC area)
Orchestra of the 17th Century
with Guest Conductor Lance Friedel, The Shepherd College Chamber Choir, and
soloists Melissa Raymond, soprano; Sharon Barnum, alto; Scott Williamson,
tenor; and Brian Chu, bass--presents:
"Lenten Music from the Holy City"
Featuring music by Giacomo Carissimi (1605 - 1674): The oratorios
"Vanitas Vanitatum" and "Jephte", with additional music by Corelli
and Palestrina.
Saturday, February 23, 2002
St. Columba's Episcopal Church
4201 Albemarle Street, NW
Washington, DC
(Metro: Tenleytown - Red Line)
8:00 pm, with pre-concert talk at 7:15.
Tickets: $20 general admission, $15 - Seniors and students (with ID).
Children under 12 - $10.
Phone number for tickets:
Mail orders:
O17C Tickets
16130 Olmstead Ln
Woodbridge, VA 22191
Additional information about the Orchestra can be found at
http://www.earlymusic.net/O17/
(or you can email me directly offline; as I can no longer
make any disclaimers about my interest in this group, since
Yours truly is now a member of the O17C Board).
Bill H.
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:40:45 -0800
From: Tim Hu <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Favorite Recordings and Pieces
DG has a commendable 3 CD set of these composers' music with Karajan/BPO.
The Tranfigured Night performance is especially excellent. It is
powerfully intense and with beautifully polished string sound. I remember
listening to it one night in my car driving through a dark forest in
Florida and reached a shore as the final bars came on. The impression
was memorable.
Tim Hu
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:21:56 +1300
From: Alison Bowcott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Vonk-erisms
Didrik Schiele had some trouble believing the Segerstam funnies so I feel
compelled to tell him, and the list, that I was in the New Zealand Symphony
Orchestra when he made those very funnies, and there is no hoax. They were
all said, and we all looked forward to the rehearsals to hear the next
"gem".
Cheers
Alison
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:23:15 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
John Grant wrote:
>MIDI is considered NON-music by many, many pianists. I do not share that
>view, since what ultimately matters to me from an aesthetic standpoint is
>the END PRODUCT, not the process by which it was created!
Part of what appeals to me about a performance is the human behind it.
The difficulty and the struggle, perhaps the human emotion behind the
performer. Thinking of these things enriches the performance for me as
a listener.
Did anyone ever read a short story about a scientist who built a robot and
taught it to play Beethoven? I do not recall it perfectly, nor the title
nor the author's name.
The scientist has a recital scheduled and he anticipated how deeply the
audience would be moved by the robot's Appassionata. At the end of the
story the robot itself cancels the recital, saying that the music was very
easy for him... "But it was not meant to be easy."
Michael Cooper
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:22:53 EST
From: Lynda Elaine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vladimir Ashkenazy
I am looking for a CD recording of Beethoven's Quintet for Piano and Winds,
Opus 16 -- Vladamir Ashkanazi on piano. i have a tape recording of an
actual concert from the 1970's but it is getting ragged. Does anyone
have a source?
Any help is appreciated
Lynda
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:39:40 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
Mike Leghorn asks quite reasonably:
>Fascinating! What was Cage trying to accomplish with this piece? No one
>will be able to hear the performance, which, to me, means that it isn't
>really music.
From the little of I know of John Cage, I am under the impression that he
had a well-developed sense of humor. Considerably more than do many of his
critics. I have no doubt that his tongue was planted firmly in his cheek
when he created this one.
Regards,
John Parker
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:40:20 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Atonal Music for Newbies
Richard Todd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>'Scuse me, but what's so hard-edged about Searle. I usually fob him off on
>people who think they could never like atonal music.
The way he drives through essential traditional musical structures
with an almost brutalist compression... there are composers who are more
aphoristic (ie, who abandon such structures completely) than Searle; but no
one more concise. Listeners who are used to getting musical ideas revealed
slowly through repeated development can drown in the way the ideas are
stated then replaced in quick succession.
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:57:58 EST
From: Mark Zimmerman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gielen's Mahler 8th?
Has anyone heard when this will be released? I have both his 2nd & 3rd and
love them.
Mark Zimmerman
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:46:50 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More Hindemith
I am interested in adding to my small number of recordings of Ludas Tonalis
by Paul Hindemith. I currently have Richter on Pyramid, Aldwell on Pro
Piano, and 'I don't remember who' on Marco Polo. The only other recordings
I'm aware of come from McCabe, Janssen, and Bruhns.
Are there more? Any opinions on the different performances?
Don Satz
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:44:14 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
Michael Cooper writes:
>Part of what appeals to me about a performance is the human behind it.
>The difficulty and the struggle, perhaps the human emotion behind the
>performer. Thinking of these things enriches the performance for me as
>a listener.
So, if there's a human "behind the MIDI", what's the issue?
len.
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:35:45 -0000
From: Sam Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Margaret Mikulska wrote:
>Excuse me, but we're back to a very tired and completely false myth.
>Mozart labored just as much as Haydn on his music, witness his own words as
>well as an enormous number of sketches, drafts, exercises, fragments, etc.
>he left. He did not write music down "off the top off his head". The
>first scholarly biographer of Mozart, Otto Jahn, wrote already in 1856 that
>we are doing Mozart a disservice if we deny the fact that so much hard work
>went into Mozart's compositions.
Sorry! I suppose it's just that most musicians over time have been jealous
of Mozart's gifts and so the myth built up...
I was certainly under the impression that Mozart chose to do most of his
sketching 'in his head', and just because this was the case wouldn't deny
a lot of hard work. (I'd've thought it's harder this way then at the piano
with a pen!)
I'm just sceptical that such an approach can produce works that are as
consistently different and innovative as repeated pen-and-paper sketching.
Besides, surely neither drafts, exercises, nor fragments imply an in-depth
sketching process? How big a legacy of pure sketchbooks did he leave?
Best Wishes,
Sam Kemp
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 16:26:29 EST
From: Paul Silverthorne <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
[log in to unmask] writes:
>David Cozy:
>
>>>Britten: Lachrymae; Hindemith: Viola Sonata op. 11/4; Shostakovich:
>>>Viola Sonata. Silverthorne/Constable. Koch 3-7270-2.
>>
>>I was unable to find it at the Amazon five-and-dime, and I had no better
>>luck at the Koch site. Any suggestions on where one might track it down?
>
>It's out of print. Berkshire Record Outlet lists that it has a copy.
I blush at Steve's compliments on my CD, but am distressed (naturally)
that people are finding it hard to get hold of. Amazon.com no longer
lists it, but Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de (UK & German sites) happily still
do. Koch, extraordinarily, have never listed it on their site. Don't they
like selling records? If anyone is really keen to hear it and can't find
it, email me direct. Thanks again Steve!
Paul Silverthorne
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 16:31:25 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
Walter Meyer wrote:
>>The one exception may be the Disney/Fantasia version of Dukas'
>>"Sorcerer's Apprentice", but none of the other episodes from that
>>film, which I love its own right, have affected how I listen to the
>>other works it excerpts.
And Jon Gallant also spoke of:
>...the powerful influence Walt Disney had on us children ...to this
>day I cannot hear the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" (a charming score)
>without the image of Mickey Mouse with a mop rising before my eyes.
As a child, during someone's birthday celebrations (sitting, as I recall,
in plush green seats at the Cine San Antonio), I disturbed everyone else's
fun by erupting into tears during the nightmarish scene where Mickey Mouse
replenishes that overspilling well with yet more buckets of water. Its
manic obsessiveness, so effectively portraying something ineffable in that
music, scared me to the very bone.
Bert B
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:01:19 -0000
From: Julian Allen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
I am very much a Finzi fan. Ive read Stephen Banfields biography, and I
love works like Intimations of Immortality, the Romance for Strings, the
Clarinet Concerto, Dies Natalis and In terra pax.
Julian Allen
South London
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:10:56 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Don Satz wrote:
>Concerning the Cello Concerto, I plan on reviewing the Naxos versions
>along with the new one from Chandos which also has the Leighton Cello
>Concerto.
Exactly these two recordings have been reviewed in the last issue of The
Grammophone
Peter Wisse.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:31:14 -0800
From: Susan Juhl <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Michael Cooper asked about "Let us Garlands Bring".
Bryn Terfel, the baritone, performs them with Malcolm Matineau on the
piano. CD's titled "The Vagabond" and has English songs by Vaughan
Williams, Butterworth, Finzi and Ireland. dg 446 946.
The Finzi Singers do a fine job on an all-Finzi-songs CD which includes the
Seven Partsongs and Lo, the full, final sacrifice. CHANDOS 8936.
CHANDOS 9888 is another all- Finzi-works CD. It contains In Years Defaced,
six of his songs arranged by 6 contemporary composers. It also has the
premiere recording of the Concerto for Small Orchestra and Solo Violin.
John Mark Ainsley is the tenor and Tasmin Little the violinist.
More: Dies natalis, a cantata for high voice and strings; Farewell to
Arms, and concerto for clarinet and strings is on Virgin 7 90718. Artists
include Martyn Hill, tenor, and Michael Collins, clarinet.
Finally: there's a 2-CD of the songs by Gerald Finzi to words by Thomas
Hardy titled "Earth and Air and Rain." Martyn Hill and Stephen Varcoe are
accompanied by Clifford Benson on the piano. Hyperion 66161.
Susan
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:12:20 -0000
From: Alan Moss <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Michael Cooper wrote:
>considering I like these songs so much, where should I continue with Finzi?
I don't think anyone has yet mentioned in this thread 'Intimations Of
Immortality', Finzi's Wordsworth setting for tenor, chorus and orchestra.
A sensitive setting of a great poem, and a fine and rewarding work.
Alan Moss
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:01:25 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
Mats:
>In Halberstadt in Eastern Germany, a new piece by John Cage "ORGAN2/ASLSP"
>has been started to be played. In 639 years (!!!) a windorgan shall
>produce the sounds of the piece under generations of musicians, is the
>thought. The piece consists of 8 movements, each take 71 years to play,
>and at each new tone, a Cage-Symposium shall be held. Right now
>is a pause in the piece, which lasts until february 2003, when a E-Major
>chord sets in.
At last, the ideal piece to use in learning to follow a score.
Professor Bernard Chasan
Physics Department, Boston University
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:10:12 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
Mike Leghorn wrote:
>Fascinating! What was Cage trying to accomplish with this piece? No one
>will be able to hear the performance, which, to me, means that it isn't
>really music.
Actually, you've answered your own question. Just because a piece of
music is so long that it can't be heard in one lifetime doesnt' mean that
it isn't music. It's just happens to be a very, very, very long piece of
music. Who ever said music had to be limited by human mortality?
Dave Runnion
http://mp3.com/TRAMUNTANA
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:02:03 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More Hindemith
Don Satz re Ludus Tonalis:
>Are there more? Any opinions on the different performances?
I have Bernard Roberts's version on a Nimbus 2-CD set, coupled with the
piano sonatas, the sonata for two pianos and the sonata for piano four
hands, presumably now nla. I have no other version, so no basis for
comparison.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:16:03 +0100
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More Hindemith
Don Satz wrote:
>I am interested in adding to my small number of recordings of Ludas Tonalis
>by Paul Hindemith. I currently have Richter on Pyramid, Aldwell on Pro
>Piano, and 'I don't remember who' on Marco Polo. The only other recordings
>I'm aware of come from McCabe, Janssen, and Bruhns.
>
>Are there more?
Yes, there is Siegfried Mauser on Wergo, Huseyin Sermet on Auvidis and
Bernard Roberts on Nimbus (in a set with the sonatas etc.). The only
recording I have is by Olli Mustonen on Decca, coupling the Ludus Tonalis
with Prokofieffs Visions fugitives, but apparently that one is out of
print. This one I always found quite satisfying, thus I never looked
out for another recording.
Achim Breiling
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:41:50 -0500
From: Peter Schenkman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More Hindemith
If you've got Richter on Pyramid you're extremely lucky as it's quite a
collectors item and also a performance that's at the top of the class,
enjoy!
Peter Schenkman, Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:01:35 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
Len Fehskens wrote:
>So, if there's a human "behind the MIDI", what's the issue?
I was speaking in part of the challenge of performance itself.
Understand I am not writing off the validity of a MIDI presentation.
Michael
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:24:15 -0800
From: John Grant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
I suppose one could say that it's somewhat misleading to say Taussig
"records" the Art of Fugue. Perhaps he does, but not in the usual sense.
There is no human at the keyboard.
Sequencing (using midi) is a very different kettle of fish from playing
the instrument. Since the artist in this case is not, in fact, creating at
the piano at all, but entirely at the computer, the "art" is not the art of
playing the piano. That does not make the end result anything less, but it
certainly makes it something different.
Even Bach, as cerebral as his music is, leaves a keyboard "footprint," as
it were, on his keyboard music. It is composed to be played by two hands,
and that is part of the fascination (and challenge) of a five part fugue:
playing it with only two hands. More than that, it is part of the music
itself. Anyone who has, on the one hand, played the WTC with his or her
bare hands and, on the other, sequenced it at the computer, is immediately
aware of this. Where, for example, one would suppose the separation of
voices using the computer to be transparent, in fact, one runs up against
exactly the same difficulties (or at least difficulties of the same order)
as the difficulties one encounters playing many voices with two hands.
In other words, sequencing is not a nostrum or magic potion for separating
and/or carefully delineating the voices of a fugue. Nothing of the kind.
Nor is it an easy route to theoretically perfect technique. Nothing could
be further from the truth. Scales and the like become utterly wooden when
they are merely sequenced. As in the case of all passable or good
sequencing, the sequencer must play in the material himself or herself,
and use the sequencer after the fact to correct mistakes, or to change the
result in some other way, without ipso facto destroying the music. This is
why pianists are usually (but not by implication) better at sequencing than
non-pianists.
It is unfortunate Taussig and Yamaha do not provide samples on the net, or
somewhere else, so that one can hear the music prior to purchase. Correct
me if I am wrong on this.
J.G.
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:58:56 -0200
From: Edson Tadeu Ortolan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
"The music is a totality of indeterminates forces... To watch the sunrise
is more useful than to hear the Pastoral Symphony." (Debussy)
"Who wants to understand what I composed, read the partitur. Who simply
wants to hear a musical piece (not to understand it!), only listen it."
(Stockhausen)
Music is the result of the intreplay of the sounds. Only abstract melody,
counterpoint, harmony, rhythm, orchestration etc. No words to describe
it (except operas, songs etc.), no images (except operas and ballets),
no photos (except movies), no drawings, no pictures, no functionalities
(religious service, ordinary services, football cheers etc.), no
enviroment, no feelings... The best visual to the sounds are the
Acoustical/Oscilloscopical Graphic Instruments in the laboratories.
The most important are the sonorous sensations.
Edson Tadeu Ortolan
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:11:43 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Visualization of Music
I very often have film scenes in my heads when listening to classical
music but film scenes from films that haven't been made yet (and probably
never will). I once listening to a Bach organ piece (and I have forgotten
which!!!) that made me think of a Mafia gang preparing for a bank robbery
(or was it the priest preparing the Holy Mass - maybe something's wrong
with me)...
Robert
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:23:34 -0800
From: Art Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Here's my five:
Kapustin - Piano Works, Stephen Osborne (Hyperion). Record of the Year.
Notated jazz almost never works, but it does here, in astonishing fashion.
This obscure Russian's synthesis of Ellington, Peterson, Garner, Hines,
and lord knows who else is fascinating and pianistically scintillating.
Admittedly, some of the 24 Preludes in Jazz Style sound like advanced
cocktail piano, but the two sonatas are original and compelling. Plus
Osborne clearly has the improvisational sense -- and chops! -- to bring
this stuff off (reinforced in a recital here last year, with a marvelously
witty riff on I Got Plenty of Nuttin'). An antidote to the failed
dabblings in jazz by classical pianists, e.g. Thibaudet's embarrassing
Bill Evans album.
Ravel/Medtner - Violin Sonatas, Vadim Repin & Boris Berezovsky (Erato).
Take the familiar Ravel as read. The treat is the Medtner (Sonata #3), a
BIG piece with Kreutzer-like ambitions. Energetic, fresh and compelling.
Janacek - The Makropulos Case (symphonic synthesis arr. Serebrier)/The
Cunning Little Vixen Suite (arr. Talich), Czech State Phil., Brno,
Serebrier (Reference). Just what the doctor ordered for this Janacek fan
who is, however, severely opera-allergic. And a sonic blockbuster to boot.
Schubert/Liszt - Soirees de Vienne, Gabriela Imreh (Connoisseur Soc.). All
nine of these irresistible dollops of Gemutlichkeit, nicely played and, as
always with Connoisseur, superbly recorded. (a 1997 recording, discovered
amongst a big batch of Connoisseur CDs snapped up at $10 ea in a recent H&B
Direct sale).
Pletnev Live at Carnegie Hall (DG) - The recital album of the year.
Staggering playing.
-- Art Scott
Livermore, Cal.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:27:15 +0100
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Some nice discs I picked up last year:
Harrison Birtwistle, the British Music collection (Tragoedia, Five
Distances, Three settings of Celan, Secret Theatre, Endless parade, Panic,
Earth Dances), Decca 468 804-2
Brenton Broadstock, good angel's tears, journeys through light and dark:
syms. 1-5, Kranoyarsk Academic SO, Andrew Wheeler, EtCetera KTC 2026
Benjamin Frankel, syms. 7+8, Werner Andreas Albert, Queensland SO, CPO 999
243-2
Wim Henderickx, raga I for percussion and orchestra, raga II for orchestra,
raga III for viola and orchestra, Royal PO of Flanders, Grant Llewellyn,
Megadisc MDC7833
Toshio Hosokawa, Koto-uto, Voyage I for violin and orchestra, concerto
for saxophone, Ferne Landschaften II for orchestra, Deutsches SO Berlin,
Rundel, Kairos 0012172
Ernst Krenek, violin concerto 1+2, double concerto for violin and piano,
Bamberger Symphoniker, Florian Metz, Koch 3-6408-2
Siegfried Matthus, sym. no. 2, cello concerto, Josef Schwab (cello),
Orchester der Komischen Oper Berlin, Matthus, Berlin Classics 0094522BC
Arne Nordheim, concerto for violin and orchestra, Duplex, Partita for Paul,
Peter Herresthal, Stavanger SO, Eivind Aadland, BIS CD1212
Mikhail Nosyrev, concertos for piano, violin and cello, Mussorgsky Opera
and Ballet Orchestra St. Petersburg, Andrei Anikhanov, Olympia OCD 691 and
696
Kaija Saariaho, Graal Theatre for violin and orchestra, Chateau de l'Ame
for soprano and orchestra, Amers for cello and ensemble, Kremer, Upshaw,
Karttunen, BBC SO, Finish RSO, Avanti chamber orch., Esa-Pekka Salonen,
Sony SK60817
William Schuman, violin concerto etc., Philip Quint, Bournemouth SO, Jose
Serebier, Naxos 8.559083
Nikolaos Skalkottas, 32 pieves for piano, 4 etudes, suite no. 1, Nikolaos
Samaltanos, BIS CD 1133/1134
and a great piece of music I discovered is "The Lesson" for voice
and chamber orchestra by one Stephen Frost, sung by Arve Moen Bergset
(impressive range!) on Chandos Chan 9763 (couple with the bassoon and
clarinet concertos which both did not impress me too much).
Achim Breiling
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:31:07 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Hi Dave, sorry, I did it again, but I don't see what is wrong this time. I
didn't change the subject line, I just added some comments on what Stuart
Sinclair wrote about the 2001 discoveries. I quoted the lines I am
commenting on. My comment begins at "absolutely".
I have been trying to do it the right way after your proper rebuke, some
time ago, and I assumed, that I had found the right way, since all my post
came right through, I followed the same procedure for this post, so I can't
find what is wrong this time.
Please don't tell me, that I have been doing it wrongly all the time.
Peter
>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>Verzonden: woensdag 9 januari 2002 21:22
>Aan: [log in to unmask]
>Onderwerp: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
>
>Hi Peter,
>
>I've been having problems with your posts not begin formatted correctly.
>A case in point is this post which quotes another post, but as standard
>quoting procedure (used in all posts to MCML) was not followed I can't
>tell who wrote what without referring to the archives. Please reformat
>this message properly identifying the quoted sections. Thanks.
>
>Dave
>[log in to unmask]
>http://www.classical.net/
>
>----------------- Message requiring approval (43 lines) ------------------
>Stuart Sinclair wrote:
>1. Henry Litolff -Concerto Symphonique no 3 in E flat, opus 45 and
>Concerto
>Symphonique no 5 in C minor. Opus 123. Hyperion CDA 67210
>
>These 2 works in my view are absolutely stunning. The melodic lines
>that run through them are beautiful. Apparently 2 and 4 are just as good
>although I don`t have them. Peter Donohoe plays the piano exeptionally
>and
>the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra are just superb. I really rate this
>CD
>and highly reccomend it.
>
>Absolutely.
>
>It is amazing that we had to wait so long for these concertos, although
>the
>Scherzo from #4 was played quite regularly.
>The only other complete ones before Donahoe that I know of, and which I
>have, are Michael Ponti with #3 and Gerald Robbins with #4. Any others
>around??
>It was the same with Scharwenka's concertos. After Wild with #1 in the
>70ties, came Lewenthal with the Final movement of
>#2, and a couple of years later Ponti released the whole of #2, then
>Tanyel
>with #2 & #3, and of course Hough with #4.
>Those cases are not at all unique, While we had (Robbins again) in
>Reinecke's #1 & #2 (on the unsurpassed Genesis label in the time of the
>good
>old vinyl records), much later the complete set, played by Hellwig.
>It also took some time before we had the 5 Rubinstein concertos complete,
>first #4 Lewenthal and Ponti,and Cherkassky, then #5 (Ruiz on Genesis),
>then
>#1, and finally all of them on Marco Polo (Banowetz)
>It also took a while before we had the complete Villa Lobos(Ortiz) and
>Martinu(Leichner, Supraphon, and I think, Firkusny), PC's on CD
>.Fortunately
>Saint Saens fared much better, to begin with Darre, followed by a number
>of
>others, Ciccolini, Tacchino, the other day followed by the best for a long
>time to come(I guess): Hough.
>Violin concertos suffered the same fate: how long did it take before all
>three Bruchs became available?? Now you can get them in one box (Accardo).
>Paganini as well: Finally Accardo released all six, and I have them by
>Dubach (Brilliant Classics for a couple of Euros)
>
>Are there similar cases for other composers (Tcherepnin,Schedrin)??
>Only that awful Beethoven is well served. And of course the one and only
>Mozart.
>Peter Wisse
>
>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 16:47:28 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>I assume that Denis is not trying to prove the inferior status of his
>unfavorite music on the basis of a popularity contest. On the same
>basis any of a dozen rock stars can "prove" the inferiority of the entire
>classical music enterprise.
Bernard's assumption is correct, except Denis was writing not about
Denis's preferences, but the preferences, betokened by their reactions, of
audiences that he has experienced. He brought it up because it seems to
him only fair to spare these people the contumely of imposing Stockhausen,
or his likes, on 'em. Let Stockhuasenia be performed away from symphony or
philharmonic halls, in purlieus more dimensioned to the size and the taste
of the iniated few.
Denis Fodor
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:52:54 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Margaret Mikulska replies, possibly to my query:
>The First Variation from Schoenberg's Variations for Orchestra op.31 starts
>with a "drop-dead" beautiful, haunting melody. The melodic gesture is just
>splendid - a sort of a gentle, very graceful bow. It's breathtaking beyond
>words. The rest of the work is marvelous, too.
I'm sure I've heard this many times, but have no recollection. I will
listen again.
>His Piano Concerto has a lot of beautiful melodies, too.
I've been listening to this concerto for 35 years and have yet to identify
a beautiful melody in it. I just listened to it again a few weeks ago.
But I'll try again...
>Berg's dodecaphony is what I would call "reluctant"; anyway, the Violin
>Concerto is full of gorgeous melodies, starting with the very beginning.
Agreed. But the Berg concerto is probably as beautiful as it is precisely
because of that reluctance. This concerto pretty much defines the limits
of my ability to perceive a sequence of notes as a melody, beautiful or
otherwise.
>Webern, dodecaphonic or freely atonal, was also a master of subtle,
>beautiful melodies. It's extremely hard not to be enchanted by and in awe
>of the song "Dies ist ein Lied / fur Dich allein" (and other songs, too,
>but this one comes to my mind most often).
I must be unenchantable.
len.
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:56:11 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Bernard Chasan asks in response to a debunk of Mozart's impoverished life:
>So the story that he was buried in a pauper's grave- not true?
In 'Mozart, A Life',Maynard Solomon (not everyone's favorite music writer,
I realize) states that it was not uncommon at the time for persons of
Mozart's station in society to be buried in unmarked graves. Supposedly,
it was a fashion among those sympathetic to The Enlightenment to be so
buried as a statement of the equality of man or some such thing.
Regards,
John Parker
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:53:38 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]> on my reaction to Jocelyn Wang:
>>I called you an "ignorant" simply because your expression "atonal plague"
>>doesn't leave room for any difference between Schoenberg and Stockhausen.
>>That's serious. It's just like saying that Pollock and Klee are exactly
>>the same.
>
>Well, maybe--but then in reverse order: Schoeberg = Klee and Stockhausen
>Pollock. The first pair was at the heart of the classical canon's loyal
>opposition; the second pair were vaguely amusing charlatans.
I almost agree. I like Pollock.
>(...) I find the lucubration about atonal,dissonant, cacophonic, pretty,
>melodic, harmonious--well, I find it defensive, rather than explicatory.
>Much ado about a commonplace.
Defensive of what? There's a strange myth among many people who don't
like atonal music, by which there's a conspirative minority of supporters
of cacophony who are engaged in an ideological fight against the innocent
flock of "normal" listeners. So, they often talk about a "war" with sides,
weapons, positions, defenses and attacks. The truth is that people who
like atonal music are not a sect (nor a small minority) and they certainly
don't struggle for the "recognition of atonal music". Atonal music doesn't
need defenders or supporters. We are not in 1905.
>When it comes to the sound of either Schoenberg (or a great edeal of him)
>and Stockhausen (all of him) I _know_ that symphony hall audiences, or the
>large majority of 'em, at most abide it and certainly don't react to it as
>they do to anything from Bach to Bruckner.
No, certainly. I've witnessed better reactions in front of a good
performance of "Pierrot Lunaire" than in front of a routinaire, mediocre
performance of Brahms' 2nd. However, I see your point: the majority of
classical music listeners don't like atonal music. That's partially false.
Almost all classical music listeners enjoys or likes at least a couple
atonal works or even a couple atonal composers. Many of them may not know
why the hell does those works likes them, but... they could feel the same
about Bach. However, I wasn't discussing tastes in my post to Miss Wang.
My point was only against taking atonal music as an indiscriminated whole.
>To be sure, there's usually an assertive minority around to provide
>applause for the outre stuff, but a color temperature meter of applause,
>is such existed, would surely rate the old canon as hot, and the new glitz
>as cold. So it goes.
That minority would be assertive, indeed, but not so small as you think.
However, let's suppose that your statement would be true...so what?.
Would the "new glitz" be bad just because of that?.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:29:34 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer:
>I'm curious to hear of a composer, widely played today who was totally
>unknown and unappreciated during his lifetime. Even Arriaga, who died ten
>days before his 20th birthday, was recognized for his remarkable musical
>gifts at least by his teachers at the conservatory.
I don't mean to pick on Walter specifically, but again it all depends on
what you mean by "recognized," a term that seems to shift depending on who
wants to prove what.
Believe it or not, I am a recognized composer, in that there are people
who know I write music and have performed and listened to it. But am I
a *recognized* composer?
Steve Schwartz
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:50:31 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]> on my comment:
>>Mozart died poor like a rat, a fact that speaks by itself about his
>>"recognition" among his contemporaries.
>
>The myth of poor and starving Mozart, who died lonely and forgotten is
>very persistent but simply not true.
I said that Mozart died poor, but not that he died forgotten. He died
unrecognized (which is a different matter), and that was the point of
my former post. During his life he looked many times for a post as
Kapellmeister, and he never obtained it. Later, in Viena he established
as a free lance composer, but things didn't go well for him as his merits
deserved.
>Mozart was in rather normal financial conditions when he died (well, at
>least one could not use the expression "poor as a rat") and belongend
>to Viennas upper middle class.
It's just a matter of nuances. I know very wealthy rats. By the way:
who said that the financial condition of a man is an index to measure
his poverty?. Look at me here in Argentina: I have a lot of money in the
bank, but the government doesn't allow me to take more than a few dollars
per week!!!. Seriously: I just stated that, at his death, Mozart hadn't
the money and fame that he would deserve according to his merits. I think
this "myth" very hard to dismiss.
>He left upon his death quite a large household, containing not only
>tons of furniture but also a couple of servants. ...
Well I tend to believe people's faces, and Mozart's last portrait deceived
me, perhaps. That's the way some people gets money from me...
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:00:31 +0100
From: Achim Breiling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Bernard Chasan asked:
>So the story that he was buried in a pauper's grave- not true?
Well, apparently Mozart had a 3rd class burial,as he did not leave money
designated for his burial and his wife did not want to pay for something
better. But it was not a paupers-grave or even a mass-grave. By the way,
Braunbehrens also found out, that on the 6th december 1791 it was rather
pleasent weather and the burial took place - due to the strict sanitary
rules of Kaiser Josef II. - in the evening after sunset, after the
ceremony in St. Stephan. His grave has disappeared after restructuration
of the St. Marx cemetery and the remains were not transfered to a new
grave as nobody asked or payed for that.
Achim Breiling
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:44:56 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Atonal Music for Newbies
Robert Clements on Humphrey Searle:
>The way he drives through essential traditional musical structures
>with an almost brutalist compression... there are composers who are more
>aphoristic (ie, who abandon such structures completely) than Searle; but no
>one more concise. Listeners who are used to getting musical ideas revealed
>slowly through repeated development can drown in the way the ideas are
>stated then replaced in quick succession.
I got to know Searle's work in the Sixties, and I found it very strongly
in the English Post-Romantic tradition -- much like Bax, Moeran, Walton,
and Vaughan Williams, to name four very different composers. Imagine my
surprise when I found it was 12-tone serial. I asked one of my professors
about it, and he came up with the theory that there's a deep conservative
strain in even avant-garde British composers, possibly because -- at least
at the time -- there was a strong social component to performance (writing
for amateurs, and so on).
Steve Schwartz
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 16:07:32 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Difficulty" Is American Conservatory Theater's New Music Offering
Featuring the Kronos Quartet and Julia Miguenes (where has she been
lately?!), San Francisco's ACT is producing the world premiere of a
music-theater piece, called "The Difficulty of Crossing a Field."
Written by Mac Wellman and composed by David Lang, the work - based
on a short story by Ambrose Bierce - is a Rashomon-like mystery about
the strange disappearance of an antebellum plantation owner. Phyllis C.
Wattis made funds available to make the commission and production of the
premiere possible. Performances are scheduled at the Theater Artaud, March
22-24.
Stage director (and godmother) for "Difficulty" is ACT artistic director
Carey Perloff, who is responsible for a number of successful ventures
into classical music, including direction of the SF Opera Center's 1998
"Iphigenie en Tauride." Peter Maleitzke, who conducted the recent world
premiere of Marc Blitzstein's "No for an Answer," is music director.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:11:44 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bach Organ Works from Kolbein Haga
Johann Sebastian Bach(1685-1750)
Selected Organ Works
Prelude & Fugue in C minor, BWV 546
Chorale Partita, BWV 768
Trio Sonata No. 4 in E minor, BWV 528
"O Lamm Gottes unschuldig", BWV 656
Passacaglia in C minor, BWV 582
Pro Musica PPC 9038
Recorded 1997
Issued 2000
Sibermann Organ, Petri-Kirche, Freiberg(1735)
Kolbein Haga, Organ
TT 63:41
Summary: Distinctive and hammer-like performances with a few drawbacks
The performances of Kolbein Haga may be best described as twisting
and severe. This likely doesn't sound very enticing, and I can't deny
that my first listening of the disc was not a pleasant one. But with
subsequent hearings, my affection keeps increasing. Haga's articulation
of contrapuntal lines is quite distinctive and very different from the
legato approaches of performers such as Simon Preston and Christopher
Herrick. Haga's performances are the type that are most disliked by
those favoring Bach on the modern organ.
There are a few drawbacks which preclude a strong recommendation. In the
Prelude of BWV 546, Haga could use more lift and majesty. His Andante
from the Trio Sonata is rushed and uneven, and there's an overbearing
bass projection toward the conclusion of the spiritually uplifitng and
gorgeous BWV 656.
At the other end, Haga's Passacaglia is a tremendously powerful reading
which has to be heard, and his BWV 768 is among the best with its
interesting registrations and contrasts.
Here are the specifics:
Prelude & Fugue in C minor, BWV 546 - The twisting rhythm, like a
tightening coil, is most evident in Haga's Fugue. It works excellently
and does no damage to the music's lyricism; it's just a severe brand of
lyricism. The contrast with Herrick's Fugue is very wide as Herrick
conveys a strong legato. I do have a slight issue with Haga's lift and
fullness in the Prelude; they are rather low in comparison to Herrick who
reaches for a vision. Still, the Haga C minor is a fine and sharply etched
accomplishment.
Chorale Partita, BWV 768 - The performances only improve in the Partita
which has an opening chorale and eleven variations. Haga's registrations
are very interesting, particularly in the more demonstrative variations
such as nos. 5, 6, and 11. Many listeners would consider these
registrations to be 'raucous', but I find them creative and effective.
Essentially, Haga twists his way through the Partita at every viable
moment. Simon Preston's version on Philips is exceptional but no better
than the Haga, just very different as Preston uses a legato approach.
Trio Sonata in E minor, BWV 528 - Haga's reading is a fine one except
for the Andante which I consider the heart of the work. He sounds rushed
and uneven, qualities which are highly detrimental to this gorgeous and
mysterious music. Haga's version of BWV 528 is not one which I will be
visiting often, and I'd wager that Bach's Trio Sonatas are not conducive
to Haga's strengths.
"O Lamm Gottes unschuldig", BWV 656 - I was very curious as to the
approach Haga would use for this work. Would he twist the music in his
severe fashion, and what would that do to such gorgeous music which
generally is considered best presented in a legato manner? To my great
surprise, Haga is more subdued and intimate than any other version I've
heard. He uses light textures, ever-present angularity, and conjures up
a different soundworld for this work from the norm. All goes in sublime
fashion until a booming bass enters the picture for the last two minutes of
music; it is overbearing and pulls Haga down from the top of the mountain
to only a worthy performance.
Passacaglia in C minor, BWV 582 - Some refer to the organ as the "King
of Instruments". Haga's Passacaglia sends that message loud and clear.
But Haga's king is not a benevolent and thoughtful ruler, but a stern one
who gets what he wants by blasting his way through your body and spirit.
Unlike E. Power Biggs who builds up toward a climax in the Passacaglia,
Haga begins climaxing right from the start. He keeps twisting and
tightening the coil until you give up and become absorbed. This is
definitely a version only for the stout at heart, but one which can be
the most rewarding of all.
Don's Conclusions: For those wary of severe performances on historical
organs, the disc from Kolbein Haga should be avoided. For others,
these twisting and austere interpretations might provide many hours of
reward(although exhausting). One thing is certain; these aren't your
run-of-mill performances. Haga has a point of view, and he makes sure you
get his message whether you like or not. Personally, I'm one who does like
it.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:55:47 +0000
From: Britta Kotecha <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Boccherini/Haydn Cello Concertos
Hi, Everyone! I was about to get myself a Cd with the following:
Haydn: Concerto for cello and orchestra No. 2 (D) and No. 1 (C)
+
Boccherini: Concerto for cello and orchestra No 9 B flat
I found two different recordings of the same pieces..one with Jacqueline Du
Pre performing (1998 I think) and the other with Erling Blondal Bengtsson
(1994).
Although I generally like recordings with Du Pre I would like to get
some info about Bengtsson I like Players who make the cello 'stand out'.
Sometimes I feel Du Pre is too soft when playing with a whole orchestra
....anyone knows about Bengtsson?
Thanks in advance.
Britta
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:31:43 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Conscientious Customer Service
I recently received the 6-CD set of music performed by Edwin Fischer from
Music&Arts. This Saturday, 1/5, I got to listening to the last two discs
and discovered that they were defective w/ clicking noises and repeats
before stopping altogether. I wrote them an E-Mail to that effect.
Today, 1/9, I received two replacement CDs in the mail, no prior questions
asked. They're fine.
Walter Meyer
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:12:11 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cagey Question
Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
had the cojones to do it.
Dave Runnion
http://mp3.com/tramuntana -- improvised chamber music
[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:02:13 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gielen's Mahler 8th?
Mark Zimmerman:
>Has anyone heard when this will be released? I have both his 2nd & 3rd
>and love them.
It's been available for some time on Sony Essential Classics SBK 48281,
recorded 1981, unless you mean a newer version. And please consider
the Horenstein on BBC Legends BBCL 4001-7, which is just magnificent.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:36:57 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Listening to Music
Elle Hogan asked:
>Here's to a novel discussion!
>
>Just why do we love the music we love? What does it feel like? When do we
>listen to it? How does it change us?
I love Schubert Lieder because they are as sensitive as I am myself in
my best moments. It feels like a gentle touch ("Ich denke dein" for
example) or like being hit in the stomach ("Erlkonig", sung by Pregardien).
I listen to it when a CD finds its way into my player. There are weeks
where this can can happen daily and sometimes the CDs have to wait for
weeks. Anyone, there is always a small mountains of CDs lying in front
of the player, waiting, waiting, waiting, very patiently. Schubert brings
me to my senses again. When I am very lucky he makes me weep.
Robert
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:16:18 -0800
From: Todd Michel McComb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Medieval & Renaissance Recordings of the Year - 2001
[ The URLs in this document are links to detailed content listings for
the recordings mentioned. ]
Medieval & Renaissance Recordings of the Year - 2001
It can be too easy to discuss the previous years' trends at length, or
my criteria for recordings, consequently failing to get to the meat of
the writeup. Let me refer interested readers to the previous years'
discussions for a variety of context, and get more quickly to the point
here.
In a nutshell, I am first a repertory-oriented person. A fabulous
recording of repertory which is not especially compelling to me, or which
already possesses a better recording, will not find its way onto this list.
Moreover, the title of these awards is not prescriptive, but rather
descriptive. I do not claim to judge all music equally, and indeed I have
a fairly restrictive view of Renaissance music, mostly as an extension of
medieval music, centered upon the fifteenth century. In other words,
whereas all medieval polyphony and secular monophony are fair game for
this survey, many significant areas of Renaissance music simply are not.
Those that are, however, are points of emphasis.
Obtaining new recordings in the United States continues to become more
difficult, and so my "released in 2001" criterion actually becomes least
applicable to the US (where I live). Nearly half of the recordings on this
list were not released in the US in 2001, although half of those are slated
for release in 2002. They were all released somewhere in 2001. Strangely,
I find that Canada currently has the most comprehensive & timely release
catalog, although I more regularly seek recordings in the UK & France.
Some of these recordings came as promotional copies; some were purchased.
While not feeling any prejudice between the two after hearing them, it is
true that I need a stronger reason to purchase a recording than to simply
listen to a free copy. So, while I have not listened to every single
recording within my preferred repertory, I have listened to every one which
I thought might be appropriate for this list. Obviously, I could have
overlooked something.
This year's list will feature a clear Record of the Year choice, and then
honorable mention lists in three categories. I have ordered the recordings
within the categories, but kept them distinct otherwise. The release of
multiple significant sequels was a notable feature of 2001, and so items in
the final section may be more valuable than those I have casually labeled
"runners-up."
Record of the Year
Alexander Agricola (1446-1506) was a unique voice among composers of the
post-Ockeghem generation. Whereas Obrecht, and then Josquin, pioneered
more rational formal planning of larger structures, together with open
textures and clearer harmonic direction, Agricola showed little interest in
rationalizing musical construction. His musical imagination was one of the
most impressive of the period, illustrated by his famous set of variations
on Hayne's De tous biens plaine, and his sense of large-scale construction
exemplified the medieval virtue of variety. Agricola's mass cycles are
consequently some of the most far-flung and intricate ever produced, and
also some of the most difficult to follow. His motivic transformations can
be so oblique that his work is singularly ill-suited to being presented in
extracts (as the Huelgas Ensemble did), and so a release of full mass
cycles this year has been particularly revelatory. This is only the second
recording to contain a full mass cycle by Agricola (after a Musical
Heritage Society LP directed by McNeil Robinson).
Agricola: Missa Malheur me bat / Missa In minen sin
Ars Nova Secunda Chorus - Janos Bali
Hungaroton 32011
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hgr32011.htm
Although Agricola's "irrational" style of counterpoint, building as it
Does on the work of Ockeghem by becoming even denser, will likely displease
the modernist, it becomes increasingly compelling for its unique musical
sense and ultimately its ability to build a convincingly unified work.
Moreover, Agricola's distinctive style provides much-needed perspective on
the clearer textures of Obrecht et al. in the late 1400s. Among the eight
surviving mass cycles, to which a volume was dedicated by Petrucci in 1504,
the Missa Malheur me bat is among Agricola's most polished. The Missa In
minen sin, on the other hand, even missing a Kyrie, is among the longest
cycles of the era. It presents many unusual features of both rhythm &
counterpoint, giving it something of a sphinx-like quality. In either
case, Agricola's dense musical logic is distinctly his own. His music
simply has more, and more oblique, motivic connections than anyone else's
of the period.
The work of the ANS Chorus will need no introduction to regular readers of
my yearly reviews. Indeed, the group won my Record of the Year last year,
as well. In hindsight, I might have chosen differently last year, so as to
avoid having the same winner twice in a row, but this year, there is simply
no competition. This recording was absolutely revelatory, and if anything,
the performance style continues to improve. It is energetic, clear in both
texture and formal outline, and tremendously well-prepared in its sense of
melodic interrelation and motivic development. Agricola's music demands
this level of preparedness, and so it is easy to believe that a lesser
performance could not have succeeded in bringing it so definitively into
the consciousness of even Franco-Flemish specialists. Judgment of
Agricola's music has not been uniformly kind over the years, but in this
rendition, after investing our own attention, we can hear that it really
does work. Record of the Year credentials do not get much better than
that.
Runners-up
Although Machaut's mass has been recorded at least as often as any major
medieval work, it continues to pose an interesting test for interpreters.
After more than twenty complete recordings of the cycle, it becomes
increasingly difficult to produce anything of more than incremental
interest. However, the present release managed to provide a notable
new perspective on this popular favorite.
Machaut: La Messe de Nostre Dame
Clemencic Consort / Ensemble Nova / Polifonica Lucchese e
Capella Santa Cecilia - Rene Clemencic
Arte Nova 85289
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/atn85289.htm
Clemencic has long been involved with medieval music, and even after
thirty-five years, he continues to make interpretive strides and seek
new perspectives. This is a powerful, in-your-face performance, which
really packs a punch. It contains quite simply the best, most declamatory
versions of the lengthy Gloria & Credo which I have heard. Although it is
somewhat rough around the edges at times, the resulting energy more than
compensates. Indeed, it is a refreshing change from some of the overly
smooth & bloodless interpretations which appear. The remainder of the
program consists of an attempt to place the mass into a broader cultural
context, rather than a liturgical context. While not a bad idea, many of
the other tracks are not of particular interest. This is also a budget
recording, making it a great value.
---
Interest in Machaut continues apace, and other new programs are welcome.
Aside from a systematic survey, it would be difficult to identify any
one program as particularly more worthwhile than others, but the Ferrara
Ensemble has done a fine job selecting one of high merit.
Mercy ou mort
Machaut: Chansons & motets d'amour
Ensemble Ferrara - Crawford Young
Arcana 305
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/acn305.htm
The main feature here is the many all-vocal motets, but other portions of
the program are also highly enjoyable, including those with instruments.
The Ferrara Ensemble has an increasing amount of experience with this and
somewhat later repertory, and it shows here in an interpretation of high
polish.
---
Among the curiosities of the past year was the issue of multiple programs
from El Cancionero de Montecassino, including one by Savall. I have yet
to hear any reason for this sudden attention, but I certainly cannot
complain. El Cancionero de Montecassino contains some wonderfully vibrant
mid-fifteenth century music in multiple languages. Among these releases,
the present was easily my favorite.
Napoli Aragonese
Musica profana per la corte aragonese napoletana: secolo XV
Micrologus
Opus 111 30-215
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/op1-215.htm
This performance exemplifies Micrologus' style. It is earthy, lively,
colorful, and natural. The vocal & instrumental tones are among the
most pleasing around, and there is none of the self-consciousness which
sometimes plagues other interpreters. While Micrologus does not always
record programs of the highest interest, this one makes for an easy choice.
More original repertory
Gombert's music continues to receive increasing attention from performers
and listeners alike, including this year. Gombert is known first for his
extremely dense counterpoint in the post-Josquin generation, a direction
which was seldom followed by subsequent composers. In that sense, Gombert
represents one point of conclusion to the development of Franco-Flemish
polyphony. Among his works, his Magnificat cycle stands out as perhaps
his most beautiful and polished, although (because?) it is not written as
densely as much of his music.
Gombert: Magnificats 1-4
Tallis Scholars - Peter Phillips
Gimell 037
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/gim037.htm
The Tallis Scholars bring their trademark clarity to this music, and it
comes with none of the technical misunderstandings which have plagued
some of their interpretations. The strident-yet-disinterested tone
characteristic of the ensemble is not one I enjoy, but the clarity &
command here more than make up for it. This is not one of their best
renditions, relying as it does on nonexistent English influences, but it
is a very welcome program. A second volume, completing the cycle, is to
appear in 2002.
---
The 500th anniversary of the first printed music in Western history
largely went unnoticed this year, but two recordings did appear from
Petrucci's famous print. Besides the historical significance, the
music itself is also of interest, cultivating one direction in the
post-Burgundian secular style. Indeed, it seems that Petrucci started by
publishing something of a retrospective of the later fifteenth century.
Most of this music was printed without words, and although there have been
arguments over the years, it appears that it was intended for instrumental
performance. Along with chanson transcriptions, it features what we might
call an early form of virtuoso divisions.
Petrucci: Harmonice Musices Odhecaton
Fretwork
Harmonia Mundi USA 907291
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hmu7291.htm
Although Fretwork is somewhat out of their element performing this music,
seeing as it is a century and a Channel removed from their focus on English
consort music, they give a quality workmanlike performance. I have a
definite preference for the homogenous string consort, and it is used to
fine effect here.
---
Pierre de la Rue continues to be relatively neglected among leading
composers of the Josquin generation, especially for his secular music.
The present selection is the first to include more than a few of his songs,
and it goes on to illustrate a wide range of intriguing material. La Rue
essentially wrote the last generation of Burgundian songs, continuing to
use forms perfected by Binchois & Ockeghem, and then adding some
innovations directly within that tradition. This program is consequently
of high interest, and very welcome.
Pierre de la Rue
Chansons from the Album of Marguerite of Austria
Corvina Consort - Zoltan Kalmanovits
Hungaroton 32018
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hgr32018.htm
The performance is of adequate quality, although it lacks the dynamism
of others in similar repertory. This group first recorded the Lessons of
Lassus, and did so with a wonderful gravity, but here the lugubrious tone
can sometimes work against them. Despite this problem, there are certainly
some wonderful sections.
Sequels and series
As noted, the present heading is especially full this year.
One sequel of clear note is a followup to the highly successful first
recording by Red Byrd devoted to Leonin. The present sequel seemed to have
no particular reason to exist, and in fact the liner notes almost entirely
recycle those for the first issue, without indication of why another volume
would be worthwhile. That said, the second volume does go on to have its
own distinct merit.
Magister Leoninus - 2
Sacred Music from 12th century Paris
Red Byrd / YorVox - John Potter & Richard Wistreich
Hyperion 67289
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hyp67289.htm
Indeed Red Byrd's performance style continues to advance, particularly
in the area of sustaining the lower lines of this two-part music. Their
first recording pioneered some ideas in this direction, based on more
recent scholarship indicating that they were not held throughout, and here
those ideas receive far more polish. The present rendition is such an
improvement over the first that it renders it superfluous. Whether this
is indeed the purpose of the second issue, or if it is part of a larger
plan to record more of this music, is unknown. This is easily the most
notable interpretation of Ars Antiqua polyphony in some time.
---
A Sei Voci's continuing survey of Josquin's masses is probably the major
c.1500-oriented survey of our time. This year, they released a program
absolutely critical to an understanding of Josquin's stylistic development,
the two l'homme arme masses. The first mass (second on this program)
shows Josquin working somewhat uncomfortably in the older style (perhaps
comparable to some of Agricola's writing, in some sense, but without the
same panache), while the second mass shows Josquin's own unique synthesis
fully. Although I have a certain appreciation for the even more economical
masses which followed, the Missa l'homme arme sexti toni & Missa Ave maris
stella have become my two favorite Josquin masses.
Josquin: Messes de l'homme arme
Ensemble A Sei Voci - Bernard Fabre-Garrus
Astree 8809
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/ast8809.htm
Although I do not agree with every aspect of A Sei Voci's interpretation,
here or elsewhere, they are clearly the most representative available of
mainstream scholarship and performance practice. This alone serves to
command attention, and while the singers can become a bit self-indulgent,
the entire program is presented in lucid & compelling fashion. It was also
suggested in print that this is the final issue of the series, a suggestion
I was unable to conclusively confirm or deny. If so, that would certainly
be unfortunate. If anything, recordings of Josquin's music continue to lag
his stature.
---
Also appearing this year (at least in the US) were the last issues in
the Clerks' Group's series of Ockeghem recordings for AS&V. First, let
me clarify the end of this series. The final item released, containing
the Missa Ecce ancilla Domini, was actually the first recorded, originally
on the Proud Sound label and reissued by AS&V. In addition, a recording
released last year, featuring the Missa l'homme arme, was recorded at the
same time as the present issue. Nonetheless, this is conceptually the
final issue in the series, at least in some sense.
Ockeghem: Missa Au travail suis / Missa Sine Nomine a5
The Clerks' Group - Edward Wickham
AS&V Gaudeamus 215
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/asv215.htm
Ockeghem's Missa Au travail suis is one of his best shorter mass cycles,
based closely on one of my favorite songs. The Clerks' Group continues to
develop their performance style, to the point that this issue is comparable
to some of the best available Ockeghem performances. Although their early
attempts were rather disjointed and uncompelling, it is a testament to this
group's character that they did not rest upon premature admiration as cause
for continuing mediocrity. In addition, the progress of this series, with
interpretations continually improving in detail & understanding, apparently
serves to parallel the public's own appreciation for Ockeghem's music.
The stereotypically English vocal tone is not to my liking, but I can
appreciate any interpretation without technical problems. The Clerks'
Group also released a recording of one of Josquin's minor masses this year,
and should continue to release worthy programs regularly.
---
The first volume of Concordia's complete recording of Gibbons' consort
output appeared on last year's list, and so the second volume is something
of an appendix. It does, however, contain some of Gibbons' finest music,
especially the six-part consorts, and so is of distinct value. This
completes Gibbons' consort output.
Gibbons: Go from my window
Music for Viols, Volume 2
Concordia - Mark Levy
Metronome 1039
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/met1039.htm
Recorded about a year-and-a-half after the first volume, the playing here
is essentially the same. While not as forceful and dynamic as some of the
recent issues from Phantasm & Fretwork, it retains a nice sense of grace
& clarity. The included songs are not especially compelling, but do not
detract from the impact of the consort selections. A complete survey of
Gibbons' consort music was long overdue.
---
Continuing the spirit of series and sequels, although not properly a 2001
release, a sampler from my 1999 Record of the Year was released this year.
Keyboard Music by William Byrd
Davitt Moroney
Hyperion 66558
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hyp66558.htm
The original issue was a 7 CD set, making it impractical for many who might
otherwise have been interested. Although the present selection is probably
not precisely what I would have chosen, it does provide an opportunity to
experience a range of sonorities from the complete set. Moroney's
wonderful phrasing and sense for the music are evident.
Finally, let me reaffirm that despite any misgivings or criticism, each
of the above certainly deserves to be listed among the best of the many
recordings released under this category this year. While there were fewer
true "impact" recordings than in past years, there were several releases
which conveniently filled niches in need of filling. I have not eased my
criteria, and all of these recordings are deserving of being listed
according to those criteria, in any year.
Happy 2002!
Todd M. McComb
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:34:33 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Zemlinsky String Quartets, Part 1
Donald Satz wrote:
>... The Artis is showing itself to be a group which digs deeply into
>every phrase to communicate the real Zemlinsky; they heighten contrast
>and diversity at every turn. Perhaps most important, they never miss the
>opportunity to bring out Zemlinsky's sexual urges which hang like a mist
>over the music.
Wow, this sounds interesting. Could you explain a little big clearer
what you mean by "sexual urges"? Is it just your impression or is there
a clear and distinctive erotic program?
Robert
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:29:43 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Deryk (and others) reply to me:
>>This in turn jogged a memory of an article by Donald Mitchell: "Mahler:
>>A Wrong Note Righted." Apparently, a wrong note had been written in the
>>final manuscript, printed in the score, and played for years in "Das Lied,"
>>and no one (obviously, not even Mahler) had noticed.
>
>Steve, while not wishing to disagree with your basic tenet (and wasn't
>there an occasion when Schoenberg was asked what a particular note should
>be and had to consult the score) but Mahler died before Das Lied (and the
>9th) were performed. He never heard a note of either.
He never heard it *performed* by the forces he wrote it for. However,
didn't he play it on the piano as he composed it? I realize that's going to
be seen as niggling, but that's what I had in mind. But, again, he revised
other works after hearing them rehearsed and performed, which indicates
that he didn't know *exactly* what his music would sound like.
>Partly; it also reflected a certain perfectionism IMHO.
But why wouldn't the perfectionism manifest itself *before* he put the work
out there?
Steve Schwartz
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:23:15 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Performance of Schoenberg's "Pierrot Lunaire"
In case anyone wondered: I'm 99.99% sure that this is in Toronto, Ontario.
Canada.
"Bert Bailey" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:53:43 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Sam Kemp wrote:
>Margaret Mikulska wrote:
>
>>Excuse me, but we're back to a very tired and completely false myth.
>>Mozart labored just as much as Haydn on his music, witness his own words as
>>well as an enormous number of sketches, drafts, exercises, fragments, etc.
>>he left. He did not write music down "off the top off his head". The
>>first scholarly biographer of Mozart, Otto Jahn, wrote already in 1856 that
>>we are doing Mozart a disservice if we deny the fact that so much hard work
>>went into Mozart's compositions.
>
>Sorry! I suppose it's just that most musicians over time have been jealous
>of Mozart's gifts and so the myth built up...
Actually, the myth started with a "Letter to Baron B.", published as a
genuine Mozart letter, but written entirely by Friedrich Rochlitz, who
also concocted a number of anecdotes from Mozart's life (some plausible,
some utterly false). He was the editor of the Allgemeine Musikalische
Zeitung, and the "letter" was published in the early 19th C. Rochlitz
wasn't a composer, so he had no reason to envy Mozart. Actually, many
musicians didn't have a reason to be all that jealous of Mozart. Mozart
yearned to write Italian opera, but plenty of other composers had more
opportunities to write them; Salieri, for instance, had not only better
and more opportunities to write operas, but also a better position at
the Viennese court. On two occasions, Mozart picked up, metaphorically
speaking, leftovers from Salieri's table: the libretto of Cosi fan tutte
was first given to Salieri, who started composing the opera but promptly
rejected the libretto. Then it was given to Mozart. The commission from
the Bohemian estate to write an opera for the coronation of Leopold II - La
clemenza di Tito - was first offered to Salieri, who didn't feel like or
didn't have time to write anything, and only then to Mozart. Who should
envy whom?
When Mozart "dueled" with Clementi, they were eventually declared to
be equally great pianists. As a composer of symphonies, Mozart had a
formidable competitor in Vienna in the person of J. B. Vanhal, indeed
an excellent symphonist; Kozeluch was another. Haydn certainly had no
reason to envy Mozart at least in the "categories" of string quartets
and symphonies.
The myth built up partly because the 19th-C biographers, mostly German,
saw artists as divinely inspired; laboring over a work, writing drafts
and sketches didn't fit this image. In Mozart's case, there was also
the factor of the child prodigy: no doubt Mozart was extremely talented
and precocious, but it was also in the interest of the family to emphasize
his talents. Leopold Mozart consistently lied about the kid's age,
subtracting a year from his real age (as if the child wasn't amazing
anyway). Of course everybody was amazed at the child's ease in performing
and composing. Some inquiring minds investigated the matter more
thoroughly than an average concert-goer would (or "circus-goer", because
some of the tricks Mozart was asked to perform were cheap and more suitable
for a circus). It did turn out that the child didn't always read the music
perfectly, but improvised his way (or fudged, one might say) when a passage
was too difficult for him. This is described in the report by Daines
Barrington, IIRC. How much of his early compositions was touched up by
the father, we'll probably never know, but by a lucky chance we do have a
sketchbook with over 40 short pieces, kept by the 8- or 9-year-old Mozart
in England, when his father was seriously ill and couldn't help (or
interfere) with his son's composing. (It was the so-called London or
Chelsea Sketchbook.) But one wouldn't show such sketchbook to the public,
of course. Anyway, my point here is that we have here both a very
precocious child for whom performing and composing seems to be a child's
play (no pun intended) _and_ the general tendency to idealize and idolize
selected composers. This is quite enough for the image of an effortlessly
creating genius to be established among music lovers and even musicians.
Rochlitz's "letter" was partly a symptom of this, but it also contributed
to this image. Although the forgery (actually, by 19th-C standards it
wasn't a forgery; most biographical accounts and contributions to
biography before 1850 were collections of anecdotes, semi-fictionalized or
fictionalized texts) was disclosed by Otto Jahn in his 1856-59 biography,
it persists, because we are still influenced by the 19th-C ideal approach
to art. Just a few years ago, a senior music critic from NYTimes mentioned
this letter in his book (I forget the name [Rothstein? Oestreich?] and the
title - it's something about music and mathematics) in all earnestness.
And it's not an isolated case.
Even musicologists are not without blame, although they should know best.
Even the Kochel catalogue doesn't deal sufficiently systematically with
Mozart's sketches, drafts, studies, fragments, etc. This will be remedied
in the upcoming edition; in fact, this has been partly remedied a couple of
years ago by the publication of a splendid catalogue of Mozart's sketches
and similar "bleeding chunks", edited by Ulrich Konrad - a dreadfully
expensive publication, but also a masterpiece of the art of book
publishing. A catalogue of Mozart's fragments is in preparation.
>I was certainly under the impression that Mozart chose to do most of his
>sketching 'in his head', and just because this was the case wouldn't deny
>a lot of hard work. (I'd've thought it's harder this way then at the piano
>with a pen!)
What he did can be glimpsed from letters describing his work to his
father. We know quite a lot about some works and nothing about others -
quite simply because it made sense for Wolfgang and Leopold to write to
each other when Mozart was away, and no reason when they were both in
Salzburg. What we can conclude is that Mozart did think over a work in
his head before starting to write it down, but the number and character
of sketches and of similar material show many false starts, corrections,
changes of the main idea, working out this or that, etc. Besides, in a
letter to his father Mozart explicitly said that although people think that
composing comes to him effortlessly, in fact he has to work quite hard on
it. Fragments are often preserved in the then usual form of a particella,
that is, a "short score" consisting of the two main parts: first violin
(melody, main themes) and bass (harmonic basis) written down (and, if
applicable, the solo part(s), with empty staves for the "filling" in the
middle. That would suggest that the basic, main ideas were more or less
worked out (although there might have been sketches to fragments), but
the details were not. Even then, the main ideas could change later.
He did use a piano for composing; there is enough evidence of that from
his letters. That doesn't exclude the possibility that he could write
simpler works without the piano; most composers could do that. But Mozart
left also a lot of contrapuntal studies, and not always from his childhood
and youth, when he was just learning counterpoint - as scholars used to
think. In the past, dating of works and musical fragments was guesswork;
nowadays, there are methods or researching the watermarks, paper type,
handwriting, etc. Some assumptions still have to be made and some are
disputed, but so far, in most cases when paper research and handwriting
were applied independently (in fact, they are independent methods), the
conclusions were close or very close. Unfortunately, the leading expert
on Leopold's and Wolfgang's handwriting, the German scholar Wolfgang Plath,
died in 1995, and the leading expert in the watermarks/paper field, the
British scholar Alan Tyson, in 1999 (and because of illness, he basically
ended doing any research a good few years earlier). Anyway, from the new
dating we can see that Mozart was not above working out a thorny
contrapuntal (or other) problem on paper even in his Viennese years.
>I'm just sceptical that such an approach can produce works that are as
>consistently different and innovative as repeated pen-and-paper sketching.
Well, we have the works and we have evidence of various kinds. Of course
we'll never be able to peek into Mozart's mind to follow his compositional
process. On the other hand, among the 600-800 works, there are many
that are not really all that different and innovative. The bulk of his
symphonies came from his earlier years: they are very well written, but
few of them are masterpieces comparable with the last three or the last
five-six. Besides, Mozart's life coincided with the period of the
development of the symphony from a light-weight "racket" played to begin
and end a concert, or a work interchangeable with an operatic overture
(which was indeed the case with a few of his symphonies), to a major
symphonic genre, of which the last three symphonies are an excellent
example. A composer who starts writing music at the age of five and is
quite prolific from the start is bound to leave a number of works which
are no more than competently written musical compositions. In fact, the
number of both doubtful and spurious works, as well as Mozart's copies
of works by other composers (misattributed to Mozart because of Mozart's
handwriting), shows that it's not all that difficult to mistake a work by
a lesser composer's for Mozart's and vice versa. Several works are still
a complete puzzle: nothing in their style weighs strongly for or against
Mozart's authorship and the sources are completely inconclusive.
>Besides, surely neither drafts, exercises, nor fragments imply an in-depth
>sketching process?
Why not? I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean by "in-depth
sketching process"? Sketching the "meat" of a composition as opposed to
sketching some minor additions/corrections?
>How big a legacy of pure sketchbooks did he leave?
Except for the London Sketchbook, he didn't use sketchbooks (as opposed to
Beethoven), but single leaves of paper, sometimes double leaves; paper was
expensive and he used up whatever was left from a clean score. Sketches
to various works are intermixed on many pages; many sketches are not
identified (not associated with any known work).
Konrad's catalogue of sketches and similar materials (not fragments -
that is being catalogued separately) contains about one hundred pages (not
leaves) of sketches. One page often contains several sketches, studies,
etc., possibly to different works. I really don't have the average number
of sketches per page, but the number varies from one to nine or ten
sketches per page. So that would be between 100 and 1000 sketches, let's
say 500 sketches as a very rough ballpark figure. Some sketch leaves are
clearly only fragments of the original pieces of papers; in fact, a 2-stave
strip of paper cut off from a known sketch leaf was sold at an auction a
year ago. It was not unusual even for Mozart's widow, his sister, and his
sons to cut off a piece from a manuscript and present it as a keepsake to
a friend or admirer of Mozart. This way a few of his works were vandalized
and now have to be pieced together from bits and pieces located at various
collections all over the world. The Rondo for piano and orchestra K 386
is one such work; it seems that after years of searching pretty much
everything has been found. Unfortunately, several manuscripts are in
"unknown private possession", not accessible for scholars.
These are only *extant* sketches. It's not possible that every single
sketch was preserved; that's just not realistic. The time distribution of
sketches is *very* uneven: there are very few sketches from the Salzburg
years (which amounted to about 20 creative years and slightly more than a
half of works counting by Kochel numbers). Most come from the Viennese
years (about 10-11 creative years and slightly less than half of works).
>From a very cursory look I'd say that only about 20-25% of sketches come
from the twenty Salzburg (or, generally, pre-Viennese) years, which would
leave about 75-80% from the almost eleven Viennese years. It's quite
reasonable to assume that the earlier works involved roughly as much
sketching as the later works: the earlier works were less complicated,
but he was then less experienced as a composer. Several works were written
abroad: would he take back home every scrap of paper? Unlikely. It's
also unlikely that the writing of at least two full-evening opere serie
(Mitridate and Lucio Silla, both for Milan), one serenata teatrale (also
basically a full-length opera, Ascanio in Alba, for Milan), one longish
oratorio (Betulia liberata, for Italy) didn't involve any sketching,
especially that Mozart was still a teenager then and still learning to
write stage works. That's only from his three trips to Italy; there was
also the trip to Mannheim and Paris, and trips to Munich. Furthermore,
Mozart didn't just move from Salzburg to Vienna, in which case he might
possibly pack all his manuscripts. He went to Munich first, just for a
few weeks which extended to few months, just to write Idomeneo and prepare
and conduct its premiere. From then he was unexpectedly ordered by the
archbishop to come to Vienna, where he spent a few months before deciding
to settle down in Vienna. He did ask his father for manuscripts of his
compositions left in Salzburg, but it would be unusual if he asked him for
every scrap of music paper from all his Salzburg years; it's more likely
that a lot of these scraps were thrown away earlier. In any case, there
must have been more than what we have now.
And that's just sketches and similar manuscripts. Then there are
fragments, but I prefer to leave it until the catalogue of fragments is
published.
By now you probably regret you asked me...
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:03:50 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Iran's Parsifal with Cojones
As the tenor entered the stage at a rehearsal of "Parsifal," holding high
the spear he captured from Klingsor in the previous scene, he suddenly
stopped, and turned to the stage director: "What am I doing, marching
around here? I feel like a dummy."
The director said: "There is not much we can do here. You won your
battle, you're no longer interesting, we'll just have you walk a full
circle, holding the spear high, then stop and look triumphant but
benevolent. Sorry."
The scene I witnessed in a European opera house long ago came flooding back
today at a movie preview.
Latif, a young construction worker, is a fool. And a bully, a mean,
ignorant pest, much worse than an idle hunter of swans. But when he is
transformed by love into a truly good man, in Majid Majidi's "Baran," he
makes the Parsifal of Act 3, Scene 2 look like a mediocre do-gooder, who
really is just as much of a fool as he was in Act 1.
Here in "Baran," at last, is a noble hero, no longer a fool, in a full,
deeply affecting realization of the transformation (not to take anything
away from Wagner's MUSIC, of course).
You might have heard of "Baran" and may know that it's a story about
Afghani refugees in Iran - Latif is Iranian, his love interest (and there
will be no giving away the story here) is one of the refugees. Let's be
honest: do you really want to see a film about Afghanistan just now? I
know I didn't, half-dragging myself to the preview, thinking that I know
exactly what I will see.
None of those expectations was valid. "Baran" is a surprising, magnificent
work, with superb story-telling, presented from, with and directly to the
heart. Not once do you know - or could anticipate - the direction of the
story; the material is original, bold and yet subtle, the character are
real and unforgettable.
Majidi - whose works include "The Father," "Children of Heaven" and "The
Color of Paradise" - is a master, working without funding, bringing out
wonderful, "natural" performances from his large cast, which has a single
professional actor (in a minor role). And yet, to know that, you'd have
to read the production notes, and even so, it's difficult to believe that
18-year-old Hossein Abedini, who plays Latif, in real life is a school
dropout, found by Majidi working at a produce stand. The film is full of
beautiful faces - some of the most beatific, wise, kind older people you'll
ever see - but obviously not of the "Hollywood look." Truth and reality
replace cosmetics and soft lighting here.
The best and boldest aspect of Majidi's work is unflinching honesty, the
portrayal of reality, not in the manner of socialist realism or Eurotrash
or gritty-grey, but in a setting of a complex, layered, ambiguous and
eventually heroic world. In this world, Parsifal would not be on a futile
search for stage directions.
In the real world, too, Majidi had a message to "the American people,"
written after Sept. 11, but well before the fall of the Taliban. He
expressed his deepest sympathy, said the terrorist attack "brought pain
to our hearts and souls. . . its bitter memory will always be with us."
He spoke of rejoicing if military action ends the "savage rule of the
Taliban," but only if "this is achieved without inflicting more harm on
the innocent people of Afghanistan." Having lived and worked with Afghani
refugees, Majidi pleaded for help for those - up to a million women,
children and elderly - stranded behind borders, but he did so in a message,
not in "Baran."
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:24:01 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
I tend to subscribe to Goethe's assertion that all music must have
a composer, a performer, and a listener -- in other words, without
a listener, there's no music. Of course, these days there's a lot of
electronic and synthesized "music" that is barely (if at all) performed.
Some of today's pop music reminds me of the sound effects in video games --
but that's a whole other subject.
Mike
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:11:08 -0500
From: Jeffrey Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chopin's Barcarolle
Dear CM fans, I love Chopin's Barcarolle. What's your favorite recording
of it, analog, digital, historic, etc.? Words cannot adequately describe
my affection for this great piece of music.
Jeffrey Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:32:00 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
John Grant writes:
>Scales and the like become utterly wooden when they are merely sequenced.
>As in the case of all passable or good sequencing, the sequencer must play
>in the material himself or herself, and use the sequencer after the fact to
>correct mistakes, or to change the result in some other way, without ipso
>facto destroying the music.
This is demonstrably untrue. "Playing the material in" is simply a more
efficient way of creating the raw material. MIDI is, after all, just a
data stream. How the values in that data stream are determined has no
effect whatsoever on the effect of those values.
len.
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:14:05 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
I once read an anecdote about Bruckner, rehearsing a new Symphony, when one
of the musicians asked: "This note, Herr Professor, is it an f or an f#",
to which Bruckner replied, "What you want, Herr Doktor, what you want".
Peter Wisse
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:07:41 -0500
From: Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
I wonder if anyone heard/saw a recent PBS telecast of the Nashville
Symphony. I tuned in with great interest because it was billed as
presenting a "corrected" version of the Ives Second Symphony. They
spoke of the scholarly work that led to "over a hundred corrections"
to the score.
I am not expert enough nor familiar enough with the symphony to express
an opinion on the effect of the changes. What struck me though was how
(to my ears) the orchestra missed, orlost, the essential qualities that
make it a work of art.
The performance was too gentle and "classical." I know from comments in
the interview with the conductor that this is what he was seeking. He
succeeded, but in my opinion turned a tangy, fun American piece into a
pale, PBS evening. Indeed, even the final "wrong" chord was drastically
understated.
Sometimes corrections lead to mistakes.
Ed
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:55:41 +0200
From: Iskender Savasir <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sinopoli's Forza
Any comments on Sinopoli's version of La Froza del Destino?
iskender
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:29:30 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: St John's Passion in MIDI?
Does anyone of you know where could I find a MIDI or Encore version
(complete or not) of Bach's St. John Passion?. Another question: where
can I download any musical software for handhelds (palm, cassiopeia, etc.)?
Thanks
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:18:32 -0500
From: Jeffrey Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: How About Ashkenazy's New Chopin Barcarolle?
Has any heard Ashkenazy's new (2001) recording of the Chopin's
Barcarolle or seen a review?
Jeffrey Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:17:42 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
More "on recognition":
This criterion, one way or the other, seems to me ultimately beside the
point. Other things beside the point include:
1. Who wrote the piece
2. The style the piece is written in
3. When the piece was written
4. How many people like it or don't like it
5. How many other people know about it
In all of these cases, you're left with the problem of deciding how good
the piece itself is, and why.
I realize that people will disagree and have disagreed with (2), but
they've got to account for the situation (as in 1, 3, 4, and 5) where one
comes across a work without prior knowledge, a situation many people find
themselves in at least a couple of times in their listening career. If
any of these things are necessary to form an aesthetic judgment, then that
judgment can't be formed until you know. In the case of certain works,
you'll never know at least some of these things. I would say that (2) is
absurd on its face, if only because you're judging the materials, not how
well the artist has used those materials, which is the basis of aesthetic
judgment.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:09:09 +1100
From: Satoshi Akima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Len Fehskens (apologies for misspelling the name before) replies to me:
>Satoshi Akima writes:
>
>> Composer's like Schoenberg and Berg come up with some
>> absolutely drop-dead gorgeous melodies, especially in their later
>> dodecaphonic works.
>
>I'm all ears -- please offer some specific examples.
Although I fully respect that some people are always going to fail to share
my love of them, here is nonetheless my personal short list of favorite
dodecaphonic melodies:
1. Lulu: there is a recurring theme I would probably call the
Lulu Leitmotiv which appears most prominently in the Act I Scene 2
Verwandlungsmusik. I'd say this is probably the most singable 12-tone
melody ever written.
2. Schoenberg Violin Concerto Principle Theme 1st Movement
3. Schoenberg Piano Concerto Principle Theme 1st Movement
4. Schoenberg Five Orchestral Pieces: Third Pieces (not strictly 12 tone)
5. Berg Lyric Suite
5. Berg Violin Concerto
6. Boulez Pli Selon Pli: there are some beautiful monodic lines for the
soprano.
7. Schoenberg: principle theme of Orchestral Variations: Takes a while
to get used to now I just LOVE it.
There is no doubt about the fact that Schoenberg became more and more
lyrical in a Brahmsian-Schubertian Viennese manner towards the end of his
career in a way that was often totally anathema to many of the post-war
generation of composers. I don't recall who it was but someone sadly
even accused Berg and Schoenberg of 'Romantic degeneracy'.
What makes the post-war composers so tough for many people is the fact
that they systematically avoid melodic lyricism. The Boulez 'Pli Selon
Pli' is a beautiful exception to prove the rule, though even this work
is by no means an example of out-and-out lyricism. I am increasingly
beginning to wonder if the fact that you won't come away from many post-war
works singing the tunes is actually not so much because of any lack of
tonal centering but because of the systematic avoidance of a lyrical style
of composition. Instead of thematic-melodic material you are constantly
being presented with musical sound-structures, whose difficulty is
compounded by their further tenacious refusal to repeat. While it is true
that although the avoidance of literal repetition; along with a tendency
to write what Schoenberg called 'musical prose'; began with the Second
Viennese School, the tendency to take this to this much further arguably
occurs only in late Webern, whom many of the composers of the post-war
period followed. Although he was writing about Berg, I think Theodor
Adorno got it right when he wrote:
Far more thematic in its effect than this main theme or indeed anything
else in the movement are certain striking procedures which recur and
are instantly recognizable. They may consist of the obsession with
a particular note, or a complex which halts the flows as soon as it
makes its entry. Such figures, as well some of the tremolo chords
or figures which dissolve into arabesques, take the place of what is
normally accomplished by themes. The use of harmonic leitmotifs is
especially worthy of note...
Quoted from "Berg's Discovery of Compositional Technique" (1961) trans.
Rodney Livingstone in "Quasi una Fantasia".
So in this sense there is actually a lot of truth to the claim that
there is often little or no 'melody' particularly in much post-war
avant-garde music. In it's place musical complexes, sometimes only single
notes or chords, take the place of themes and leitmotifs. Amongst post-war
composers Nono is possibly the most extreme example I can think of in this
tendency towards the systematic elimination of melodic- thematic material
from his music. Most composers; starting with Webern himself, followed by
Boulez, Rihm, and Berio; are not nearly quite so extreme. Carter and
Birtwistle do not seem to have a great deal of these structural complexes
replacing themes, but still have a much more non-melodic declamatory,
dramatic style of musical argument. Carter rhetorical-declamatory style
often reminds me of certain tendencies in late Beethoven taken to an
extreme. Birtwistle's superb music theater can sometimes can initially
strike the listener like operas with only a continual recitative, where all
the arias have been edited out. These are all difficulties encountered in
modern music that are actually totally separate from the issue of
tonality-pantonality.
In many ways I can kind of see what some people are feeling when they say
'bring back the melody so we can lure people to the concert halls', even if
I do not fully agree with them. I do sympathize with their difficulties -
and can understand how they must feel sometimes. It then raises questions
as to why I even find such apparent baroque pearls beautiful. The fact is
that I myself cannot fully explain it. The only thing I do know is that
I am often mesmerized by the beauty of these works. Even Nono seemed too
angular to me until I discovered his visionary 'Prometheus'. There's not
a tune in there you can sing like a number from a musical but there is a
profound meditative intensity that is totally hypnotic. I listen as if
in a trance. Stockhausen lines also seem angular but I have come across
chant- like passages that have a quasi-melodic hypnotic fascination and a
tremendous immediacy of impact. Other works such as 'Flight Towards the
Sun', I really couldn't even begin to explain why I like. By every rights
I should be reacting vociferously by decrying the work as non-musical
'fingers down chalkboard cacophony', but instead I find myself in awe of
this sublime music: it was definitely a Love-at- first-Hearing!
Even I sometimes totally amaze myself for being able to understand this
music.
Satoshi Akima
Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:09:33 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Robert Clements wrote:
>Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Looking back on 20th century music, I think it was a natural progression
>>from Romantic music. As with other major style transitions, the
>>progression consisted of some breakthroughs. ...
>
>Most of your argument is self-gratifying historicism; & has limited merit
>in determining whether this tradition in 20th century concert music is even
>of historical importance (& no relevance at all in determining whether the
>music is any good or not). That one can draw a chain of Romanticism to one
>small branch of 19th century music (basically the expanded tonality branch
>of the self professed Music of the Futurists) doesn't make it the only or
>even the natural outcome of 19th century music; & the idea that style
>transitions consists of breakthroughs (ie, inherent improvements; rather
>than what really happens, which is that tastes in style change at these
>points, usually for extramusical reasons) is simply heroic Romanticism - a
>19th century idea in itself - at its more arrogantly pretentious.
Robert, I think you missed my point. Although I said "atonal" music was
a natural progression from late Romantic music, I didn't say it was the
Only natural progression, nor did I say it was an improvement. Also, I'm
not "so damned" threatened by audiences who prefer "tonal" music, and I
certainly didn't intend to make those audiences "look like a bunch of
insecure hoons" (whatever a "hoon" is -- I couldn't find that word in any
of my dictionaries). I disagree with your point that the expanded tonality
branch of Romanticism is a small branch. If anything, it was the most
important and obvious influence on 20th century music. If you disagree
with that, I'd love to hear your reasons -- I'm sure they'd be very amusing
to me, and to a lot of other people in this discussion.
Mike
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:56:56 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]> on my comments:
>>I could easily quote many composers of that list as examples of the
>>opposite case.
>
>Most of these statements derive more from literally Romanticised mythology
>than real facts; which is why the nonsense of the artist neglected in his
>- it's almost always a his - own lifetime has been so hard to erradicate.
What the hell is wrong with romantic mythology?. And most important: what
are the "real" facts in this matter?. How you can measure objectively the
"recognition" or the "poverty" of a man who lived in other times?. Let me
quote what Walter Meyer answered to my post concerning Mozart:
>He died, poor, it is true, but only because he was spending money even
>faster than he was making it, not anticipating that he might die before he
>would be able to make enough (as he most likely would have done) to repay
>his debts and actually afford the means up to which he sought to live.
This is the portrait of a poor man, no matter the amount of the estate
that he presumably left to his widow. There may be objective data
(letters, documents) but all we have are different readings of those data.
Why an old romantic reading should be necessarily worse than the new one?.
Are you going to tell me that it's better for the (fanfare here) Progress
of Mankind to say that "Mozart died rich" than "Mozart died poor"?.
>>It depends on what do we mean with "recognition". Bach was highly
>>appreciated during his lifetime as an organist and improviser, but not
>>much more.
>
>... & as a teacher, of course. Fairly significant recognition - the
>claim that JSB was neglected has more to with the fact that most of his
>contemporaries considered Telemann the superior composer; not that the
>father of PDQ Bach was some kind of musical lightweight.
Being remembered as a teacher is not a "fairly significant recognition",
unless you sustain the strange theory that is a good thing to be honored
as a football coach after writing the St. Matthews Passion.
>>After his death he was remembered and honored like a fossil by his
>>"didactical" works (the WTK, for example) and by having been the effective
>>cause of his much more illustrious sons.
>
>This is true; but irrelevant to the argument. JSB wasn't neglected in his
>own lifetime; so it hardly matters whether he lost ground after his death.
>Many artists do.
No, it becomes very relevant when you stop a minute and think that the
majority of his work was almost unknown to his contemporaries at the main
musical centers of Europe. In this aspect, he didn't "lost ground" after
his death, he simply had very little of it.
>>Mozart died poor like a rat, a fact that speaks by itself about his
>>"recognition" among his contemporaries.
>
>Unmitigated claptrap based on some really lousy 19th century fantasies &
>repeated in Amadeus. Mozart spend the last few years working successfully
>as a freelance composer; & died leaving a significant estate.
Well, as a claptrap it worked very well during years. I personally prefer
it to the modern claptrap (which you seems to like) that sustains that
Mozart died rich and healthy. However the truth is that, at his death,
Mozart hadn't the money and fame that he would deserve according to his
merits, and that's enough to prove my point.
>>Schubert is an analogue case, with the difference that he didn't enjoy a
>>single period of real good fortune in his whole life. At his death he was
>>recognized only by a circle of friends. I don't need to insist on the
>>diameter of such circle.
>
>No: he only lived with the beautiful people of Vienna; & survived
>successfully on commissions without having to resort to regal patronage.
>More romantic nonsense.
Patronage at Schubert's times was almost extinct, and for a composer,
it used to be the best institution to resort. Beethoven was very lucky
in this aspect, and his case was in some way exceptional. Concerning his
means of life, it's true that he could have a better economical position if
he would handled better his business with some editors (Probst, Diabelli),
but it's also true that they took advantage in many cases of Schubert's
lack of ability to negotiate (which is not a romantic tale). I would say
he "survived", but not too "successfully".
>>Bruckner was recognized by his contemporaries only at his mature years,
>>after being neglected and humiliated by critics, colleagues, conductors
>>and players.
>
>Bruckner's symphonies were all published in his lifetime; & the composer
>lived quite comfortably as a teacher. Although we disagree with the
>reasoning, the cuts made to Bruckner's scores were made by people who
>admired the composer, to broaden the appeal... not - as is sometimes
>misrepresented - to save them.
In terms of recognition, a publishing meant very little by those times, as
today. A well intentioned cut is still a cut. "To broaden the appeal"...
don't you see that this is major insult, perhaps the biggest that can be
inflicted to a composer?.
>>Mahler had to fight *really* hard during his whole life for his
>>recognition as a composer.
>
>Only because he was so massively praised as a conductor (when Coleridge
>Taylor was called the Black Mahler by the NYPO, this was the greatest
>compliment that illustrious band could give him).
Who cares the reason?. The fact is that he had to struggle hard...
>Many of his scores did achieve independent popularity during his lifetime,
>though: Resurrection, in particular.
Depends on what do you mean by "popularity". Compare Mahler's popularity
at his forties with his predecessor Brahms at the same age...
>>Concerning Webern and Schoenberg...well, there are people nowadays (even
>>among this list) who doubt that they are really "composers", or at least
>>"good composers".
>
>Schoenberg achieved significant critical success & even some popular
>success early in his career.
Irrelevant. He achieved a much more significant amount of scandal.
>Count von Webern - like Scelsi - was
>a dilettante who didn't need such things & postured that they were
>irrelevant; & is probably only known now because of his association with
>his teacher & the circumstances of his timely death.
Irrelevant again. The fact that "he didn't need such things" is not an
argument. He had no recognition at all during his lifetime...
>>There are guys like Haendel, Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Verdi,
>>Puccini, who had a certain good luck during their lifetime. Some others
>>simply hadn't.
>
>I know of no composer really neglected during his/her own which has been
>posthumously rehabilitated into significance; but i know of plenty of
>comic strip biographies which have suggested that this has happened.
Well, I don't read my stuff in comic strips, but in books written by
people who spent a lot of time in research. They may be wrong, but I'm a
sentimental: I tend to believe them. Besides, if you take five minutes to
read again my post, you'll see that I've never talked about "absolute lack
of recognition": I just stated that many major composers were neglected in
a bigger or lesser extent by his contemporaries.
>The artistically restrictive nonsense that neglect is a function of good
>art became cancerous in the last century due to tall tales like those you
>have just repeated; & the sooner we cast some clinical light on the reality
>of the stories, the better our contemporary art will be.
Ughh! "artistically restrictive".... I knew that there was a politically
correct underpinning in all this. Listen, I don't care the way you like
"our contemporary art" to be, I just quote or "repeat" (as you like)
"tales" "invented" by people who have spent much more time than you on
investigations (or "inventions", as you like). They may be wrong or
inexact perhaps, but who are you to dismiss them under the argument that
their conclusions are "bad to contemporary art"?.
Pablo Massa
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 02:33:54 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Quoting myself:
>Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
>had the cojones to do it.
Dave wonders:
>[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
>on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
Well...is it really any more ridiculous that putting it on a concert
program? And if the artists make money and listeners spend money, who're
the smart ones? And haven't you ever just sat staring into space for five
minutes or so after listening to some piece of music, just meditating,
enjoying the silent resonance? Why not call those five minutes of peace
music?
Dave Runnion
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:18:59 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
David Runnion <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
>had the cojones to do it.
>
>[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
>on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
As i recall, Floating Earth even paid royalties on the couple of hundred CD
singles they sold of the piece in the early 90s... or is this a lost verse
from Money for Nothing?
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:22:31 +0100
From: Peter Lundin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Runnion questions:
>Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
>had the cojones to do it.
I think there was, on Wergo perhaps - I have it on an old LP stacked away
somewhere..
>[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
>on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
I belive that there are a few misconceptions here, as there is with most
of John Cage's music; first, if one treats 4'33 a a piece of piano music,
it does not make any sence, making it impossible to do a "studio" recording
of it.
As with most of JC's "music" it defies the limitations of what society has
defined as music. To me (and many others) it is "Ars Acoustica" (Acoustic
Arts) - And Dave, I have to point out that 4'33 is not about *Silence*,
which is one of the most common misconceptions about this piece; just
because the pianist do not touch the keyboard, does not make it a silent
piece.
What he is doing is "Electro Acoustic Music" (EAM) with out the "Electro",
what is stipulated in the score is what the player shall do from entering
the venue till leaving (walking across the stage, lifting lids, fiddling
with the score, correcting his tails etc...) It would not be JC if there
where not a large measure of chance; enter the enviroment: sounds of a
belated audience (as we discussed durning the fall), an open door leaking
street noice etc.
I can only speculate (I have not read JC's writings well enough) about
what his underlying rationales where: Merely if it helps us to calm down
to start listening to our acoustically poluted environment it would be
a grate leap forward. (Here I can urge everyone to read the Canadian
composer and scientist R. M. Schafer's writings on the Sound Scape,
especially the small pamphlet; A Sound Education: 100 exercises in
Listening and Sound-Making, it will help anyone understanding envirmental
sounds and music better)
If we allow ourselves to call a piece like 4'33 music or not, is largely
a personal matter and hardly consequential to the concepts layed out by
JC writing the piece - i guess what is most compelling towards it beeing
a musical piece is the fact that someone has set down a number of rules
on a score, rules that the performer 'should/have to' abide to for it to
actually be "4'33". Is recording it "Ridiculous"? Well; is putting the
200'th recording of Beethovens Fifth symphony on a CD Ridiculous?
I would say that, what one answers are to these questions are a product of
one's cultural preconceptions, and as long as one can keep one's calm and
do not engage in violence, any answer is fine with me. I would even say
that a well argued one, that contradicts my own, is much more interesting,
as it will force me to sharpen my points!
Hence I argue, that 4'33 is music, that it is not ridiculous to record it
and hardly ridiculous to put it on a CD. I might agree that its ridiculous
to listen to it, at least the second time around 8^) Experiencing it live,
along with some other JC pieces should be mandatory for eveyone interested
in music!
A small side bar:
Dave Runnion call his mp3 site "tramuntana"
>http://mp3.com/tramuntana -- improvised chamber music
Writing this I was listening to Gosta Nystroem's Sinfonia Tramontana
(1965), what is one of those little things is that I put it on seconds
before starting to read Dave's post...
peter lundin, gothenburg.se =8B Counting the days: DDS 100 (1906-2006)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:47:18 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
I decided to list some Favorite Finzi, but works that most people don't
seem to know.
2 Milton Sonnets -- more orchestral songs, in the ecstatic vein of Dies
Natalis. Who knew Milton could be ecstatic?
3 Short Elegies -- choral works. The idiom is more modern, more austere
than usual with Finzi, and therefore very interesting. Beautiful in its
own right, however.
7 Poems of Robert Bridges -- choral part-songs. Very subtle word setting,
and very beautiful. Difficult as hell to sing.
All this night -- a rousing choral anthem ("All this night, shrill
chanticleer") on the Nativity.
Before and After Summer; Earth and Air, and Rain; I said to Love; Till
Earth Outwears; A Young Man's Exhortation -- 5 song cycles to poems by
Thomas Hardy. Finzi doesn't set just the easy poems, either. Really,
the English equivalent of Faure.
A Farewell to Arms -- more orchestral, Dies Natalis-like songs.
For St. Cecilia -- a longish cantata, very Finzi-ish, to a pretty good
poem written especially for Finzi to set. St. Cecilia, of course, is the
patron saint of music, and the work becomes a kind of Composer's Testament.
Intimations of Immortality -- a long, Brahmsian cantata, setting most of
Wordsworth's long poem. It's a magnificent, virtuoso achievement, because
that poem isn't all that easy to set. Finzi music sounds like the most
natural thing in the world.
In terra pax -- a Christmas cantata. I don't know what it is about
Christmas, but it seems to bring out the best in English composers.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:57:27 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Susan Juhl:
>Michael Cooper asked about "Let us Garlands Bring".
>
>Bryn Terfel, the baritone, performs them with Malcolm Matineau on the
>piano. CD's titled "The Vagabond" and has English songs by Vaughan
>Williams, Butterworth, Finzi and Ireland. dg 446 946.
WARNING!! I would have found this CD almost hilariously bad, if Terfel
hadn't decided to ruin some of my favorite songs. Terfel has picked up
some risible vocal habits -- he almost never hits a note straight on; he
has no sense of overall line; he aspirates and scoops at Times of Great
Emotion, which for Terfel is practically all the time. Some of the most
mannered singing it's ever been my misfortune to encounter. Try Chandos
CHAN8743 with Hickox and Varcoe (my current first choice among available
recordings) or Hyperion CDA67065 with Maltman and Brabbins.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:35:01 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Alan Moss suggests:
>'Intimations Of Immortality'
An admittedly off topic aside, but everytime I see this I am inevitably
reminded of its schoolboy corruption, "Imitations of Immorality".
len.
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 01:43:41 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Zemlinsky String Quartets, Part 1
Robert Peters responds to concerning the Artis Quartett-Wien:
>>Perhaps most important, they never miss the opportunity to bring out
>>Zemlinsky's sexual urges which hang like a mist over the music.
>
>Could you explain a little bit clearer what you mean by "sexual
>urges"? Is it just your impression or is there a clear and
>distinctive program?
I don't think there's any program at all. That's why I stated that the
urges "hang like a mist".
From what I've read of Zemlinsky, I thought it likely that he was highly
sexual. As for his music, it immediately has me feeling more attuned to
sexual directions. I liken it to the smell of sex found in an adult men's
club; the second you enter, it's in the air. And no, I haven't been to one
for many years.
Poulenc is another composer I'd place in this category with Satie not far
behind. Just speaking for myself of course. For all I know, there might
be folks who get turned on by Mendelssohn. "Different strokes for
different folks."
Don Satz
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:31:47 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Zemlinsky String Quartets, Part 1
Yes, please explain! Is this an X rated quartet? Too bad he didn't add two
more instruments, then it would be a ... Does this piece also have a corny
background music accompaniment?
Mike
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:18:16 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Peter Lundin wrote:
>Dave Runnion questions:
>
>>Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
>>had the cojones to do it.
>
>I think there was, on Wergo perhaps - I have it on an old LP stacked away
>somewhere...
The most commonly available CD recording might be the Hungaroton release by
the Amalinda Percussion Ensemble. This was listed in Schwann Opus for over
a decade.
>>[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
>>on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
>
>I belive that there are a few misconceptions here, as there is with most
>of John Cage's music; first, if one treats 4'33 a a piece of piano music,
>it does not make any sence, making it impossible to do a "studio" recording
>of it.
Well, it's actually scored for any instrument, as I understand it.
>As with most of JC's "music" it defies the limitations of what society has
>defined as music. To me (and many others) it is "Ars Acoustica" (Acoustic
>Arts) - And Dave, I have to point out that 4'33 is not about *Silence*,
>which is one of the most common misconceptions about this piece; ...
I agree it's a misconception, but it's not mine. Please note what I wrote,
and not what you think I might be thinking. This error has become endemic
on the list this past few months. In any case, of course it can be about
silence, if that characterizes the ambient acoustic environment. There's
nothing about this piece that demands there be sound. I'm into the
acoustic arts too, but I just like to call it music to avoid any appearance
of pretension.
>... Is recording it "Ridiculous"? Well; is putting the 200'th recording
>of Beethovens Fifth symphony on a CD Ridiculous?
It appears you missed the point of your otherwise excellent explanation
of your understanding of this music.
I haven't studied Cage in depth, but I have read a bit. I think he's
an interesting artist, who had a unique take on the relationship between
sounds, the audience, and what constitutes music. As I understand it,
one of the points Cage was trying to make is that the sounds that surround
us constantly can be music, if only our attention is focused on them. He
brilliantly devised a piece that allows for just that. As I see 4'33",
it's a work that creates an environment where ambient sounds may be
perceived as music. The music isn't in the piece, per se, it's in the live
spontaneous, extraneous, etc., sounds all around the audience and the in
the audience perception of these sounds.
As the focus provided by a concert experience (i.e., and audience sitting
reverently awaiting the delivery of music) can not be captured in a
recording, as far as I'm concerned the idea is ridiculous in the literal
sense: it doesn't make sense. Either that, or recorded silence is indeed
the only viable "recording" of 4'33".
Dave
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:21:19 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>:
>Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
>had the cojones to do it.
Yes, there is at least one, in a double box CD containing a selection of
Cage's works. It was released in 1991 or something. Unfortunately I don't
remember the label... or the interpreter.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:24:56 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Runnion wrote:
>Quoting myself:
>
>>Is there a recording of 4'33"? Seriously. Just wondered if anyone had
>>had the cojones to do it.
>
>Dave wonders:
>
>>[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
>>on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
>
>Well...is it really any more ridiculous that putting it on a concert
>program?
Yes, much I think if you have an understanding of the piece. See my
response to Peter.
>And if the artists make money and listeners spend money, who're the smart
>ones?
So, as long as money changes hands, this implies intelligence? You lost me.
>And haven't you ever just sat staring into space for five minutes or so
>after listening to some piece of music, just meditating, enjoying the
>silent resonance? Why not call those five minutes of peace music?
Indeed, why not? But the far more important question is "why call it
music?" And if we call that music, then what other non-artistic human
activities are music? All of them? Everything is music, whether it is sound
or not? That's the most inclusive definition I've ever seen, and certainly
gently strokes an egalitarian philosophy, but I'm not sure what it buys us
in real life.
Dave
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:17:36 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
As someone who uses midi regularly, but still agrees with those who
belittle it, my analogy is that midi is the Sculpey of music -- easy
to use, fast setting, bakeable(?) -- but not the same as real clay.
My third prelude of 24 preludes & fugues is baked:
http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_prelude_op66_3.pdf (the clay)
http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_prelude_iii.mid (sculpey)
The midi's, by the way, are 'poured in', so there are no discernable
bars or beats; see the score for the correct notation.
William Copper
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:39:58 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
Len Fehskens replies to John Grant:
>>Scales and the like become utterly wooden when they are merely sequenced.
>>As in the case of all passable or good sequencing, the sequencer must play
>>in the material himself or herself, and use the sequencer after the fact to
>>correct mistakes, or to change the result in some other way, without ipso
>>facto destroying the music.
>
>This is demonstrably untrue. "Playing the material in" is simply a more
>efficient way of creating the raw material.
Actually, if I understand you and John correctly, it's more than that.
Sequencing can produce a fairly faithful account of human phrasing -- the
little speed-ups and slow-downs that almost inevitably occur when a human
touches a keyboard. On the MIDI software I have, however, there's a
setting that allows you to play "as written" or "as recorded." There's a
huge difference.
A composer friend of mine was asked to produce a score (a concerto)
composed by a jazz musician in town who couldn't read or write music.
The jazz man (a pianist, fortunately) played on a MIDI keyboard into a
sequencing program. The resulting score was a horror of raw data which
needed to be cleaned up, not at least metrically. It *sounded* fine, but
the written notes almost never occurred on the beat, even the ones which
were supposed to. A dotted quarter plus eighth (in final published form)
had several morphs in the original humanly-played data stream.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:58:22 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]> writes in response to Denis Fodor'as
assertion that the majority of symphony hall audiences don't like modern
stuff, though nthere is a minority....:
>That minority would be assertive, indeed, but not so small as you think.
>However, let's suppose that your statement would be true...so what?.
>Would the "new glitz" be bad just because of that?.
We're writing in parallel here. You're contending that modern stuff is
worth a listen, tout court. I'm contending that the majority of symphony
hall audiences doesn't care much for it. Your're saying it's worth a
listen; I'm saying it's improper to impose it.
I agree that some modern stuff is eventually bought by otherwise
skeptical audiences. But I don't agree that the ruckus is about atonality.
Most concert goers don't even know what it is, and really can't be expected
to. That's why I tried to make the point that to the average concert goer
the distinction between atonal, dissonant, cacophonic, pretty, melodic,
harmonious is beside the point. Most of them think the stuff that offends
them is atonal--buit if you cued them to think it dissonant, they'd buy
that, too. The stuff they like they'd recognize as being harmonious or
pretty.
For the little it's worth, I tend toward the harmonious side and shy away
from the atonal one, even when it's not strictly atonal. Sometimes I am
content with a mix: the inception of Mahler's Fifth grabs me enough to
persuade me to abide the inception of the last movment.
Denis Fodor
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:42:49 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Having perused Dave's lists of birth and death dates, I'm still unimpressed
by what 2002 has to offer. I can only hope that some great composer will
be born or has been born this year so that this problem won't recur! I
have found two other years which are similarly low on major anniversaries:
2016 (Satie, Reger, Granados, Busoni, Dutilleux) and 2029 (Soler, Zelenka,
Respighi).
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:45:50 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Lampson wonders:
>[Of course. But how does putting 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence
>on a CD and calling it music anything but ridiculous? -Dave]
Well, on a CD, of course. But have you seen the video?
Steve Schwartz
[Just once on MTV, back when they still showed videos. I loved most of
the visuals, but thought the naked, writhing bodies towards the end were
a bit gratuitous. -Dave]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:38:41 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Powder Janacek's Face
Thomas Ades' "Powder Her Face" is definitely not among my favorite
contemporary operas. But Ades' performance in the upcoming EMI release
of Janacek's "The Diary of One Who Disappeared" is just as certainly among
the finest music experiences around.
The beauty of this CD is that beyond "Diary," it also offers two dozen
Janacek piano pieces (from "Moravian Folksongs," individual pieces, and a
couple of early versions of "Diary"), all performed by Ades to perfection.
Ian Bostridge and Ruby Philogene are the singers, and although the work
is exactly right for Bostridge's unique voice, he is not on the level of
this incredible piano performance; there is strain apparent at times. When
Bostridge took "Diary" on tour not long ago, the live performance I heard
with him impressed more than this recording.
Still, Bostridge's forte, diction, comes to the fore again, and his
Czech delivery is wonderfully clear, so much so that some of the text
is understandable even with a basic knowledge of the language. (Paula
Kennedy's translation is included with the CD, but considering the font
size used in these booklets, it may be easier to learn Czech.) Philogene
has too little to do here to get a full measure of her.
EMI is to be saluted for producing a CD of such great (and yet
rarely-performed) music, and for doing so with first-rate talent.
Janos Gereben/SF
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:55:00 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Singing at the Colon!
Dear all: I confirmed the notice yesterday.... yes Sirs, Pablito Massa,
your handsome, athletic, smart and humble friend is going to sing Bach's
"St. John's Passion" at Teatro Colon next july with the Grupo de Canto
Coral www.gcc.org.ar) and the Camerata Bariloche. Of course, I will not
sing a solo, though I feel myself sometimes mean enough to perform Pilatos.
Please, jokes like "this is a consequence of the Argentinian crisis" etc.
were already expressed by many of my friends, so they are useless... I'm
happy not only because we will sing in a major theater as the Colon, but
because this is the fourth occasion in my life in which I can put my hands
on a Bach's major choral work. A few years ago, when I was a violinist of
the Camerata of the Univesity of Buenos Aires I had the luck of being
engaged in complete performances of Bach's "St. Matthew's Passion" and
"Mass in b minor". Last year, our choir had the project of singing the
Christmas Oratorio, but at last moment our plans took a different (easier)
direction. A year and half ago, we offered a concert in commemoration of
Bach's death, with choral numbers of some cantatas, and we had the inmense
honour of having Michel Corboz among the audience...(you can imagine our
nerves).
Well, In the next months I'll bother you with commentaries on the
rehearsals of the Passion. I hope that they will be funny, informative or
curious to other listers who have performed (or likes) Bach's major choral
works.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:40:07 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Ed Zubrow:
>I wonder if anyone heard/saw a recent PBS telecast of the Nashville
>Symphony. I tuned in with great interest because it was billed as
>presenting a "corrected" version of the Ives Second Symphony. They
>spoke of the scholarly work that led to "over a hundred corrections"
>to the score. ...
I tuned in on it in the middle and thus missed the billing as a
"corrected" score. I have no idea what the critical status of the
edition is. However, I agree completely with your assessment of the
performance. Gentility, thy name is PBS.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:51:35 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mike Leghorn replying to Robert Clements:
>Also, I'm not "so damned" threatened by audiences who prefer "tonal"
>music, and I certainly didn't intend to make those audiences "look like
>a bunch of insecure hoons" (whatever a "hoon" is -- I couldn't find that
>word in any of my dictionaries).
In case a poster to a future thread should feel the need for some pithy
invective, a hoon is Australian slang for the kind of person who seeks the
approval of his/her peers by indulging in anti-social behaviour, typically
such as driving very noisy cars, vandalising public utilities, or any act
of stupidity of which the person using the word disapproves, such as
opening cellophane-wrapped toffees during the slow movement of Beethoven's
4th Piano Concerto. The word is not, to my knowledge, copyright, and it
deserves wider currency.
With Dave's indulgence, I'd like to clear up another little mystery.
The phrase "not exactly chopped liver" turns up occasionally in posts to
express someone's approval for something. I'm not quite sure why.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
[Like a lot of sayings, when you stop and look at the literal meaning,
it can be odd. I believe it's of Jewish or Yiddish origin, so perhaps
someone here knows the importance of "chopped liver" and why it's not
considered very special. Perhaps it's just that many people don't
find liver all the appetizing. -Dave]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:15:07 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
I would definitely prefer 4'33" of silence over 4'33" of MTV, which makes
me think of an interesting question: whenever I use the mute on my TV, am
I listening to John Cage? Or maybe a rip off of Cage?
Mike
[At the very least you owe the Cage estate royalties. I used to use
mute all the time, but it got too expensive. -Dave]
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:11:17 EST
From: Mary Powers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Handbell Change Ringing
hello, I am looking for at least one CD with handbell change ringing
only. I hope that is the right term. I have been searching in vain. I'm
looking for pieces like "treble bob twenty-in". A question - why is it so
difficult to find this music? The handbell CDs I have found are handbells
playing songs, which is nice but not what I want.
thanks,
Mary Powers
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:48:06 -0800
From: John Grant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
There may be a misunderstanding or terminological confusion. If one "plays
in," say, a Chopin Ballade, in what is called "real time," the sequencer
acts like a recorder, only better, since it reproduces not only EXACTLY
what you play in every detail, but also provides you with notation..
What I was referring to is the standard "midi" versions that one typically
hears at sites like the "Classical Midi Archive." These are simply
representations of a given piece of music with little or any variation in
the length and intensity ("velocity" in midi language) of the note, and
with or no change in tempo. In other words, the notes are simple entered
into the computer using a mouse, or whatever, and they are monotonously
uniform in length and duration. The end-result is non-music. It takes a
very skilled sequencer to create music.
Of course, the statement that the result is "non-music" is, I suppose, an
aesthetic value judgement and not therefore propositional, analytical, or
subject to objective verification!
John Grant
http://www.mp3.com/stations/bach_wtc_1_part1
http://www.mp3.com/stations/wtc2
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 06:34:33 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor writes concerning modern music:
>I'm contending that the majority of symphony hall audiences doesn't
>care much for it.
I don't doubt the premise that Denis offers, but it does not consider
the possibility that there's a large number of folks who don't currently
attend concerts because of the typical programming. Perhaps different
programming would bring those people into the concert hall, and they
could simply replace the ones who now attend but would refuse to go due
to changed programming. My personal opinion of the current concert scene
is that it needs innovation, entirely altered seating arrangements, and
a changed attitude about who to attract. Good food, drink, and a few
hot-tubs wouldn't be a bad idea either. Do I hear "Big Macs at the Met"?
Being serious, the old concert traditions may not be viable as the 21st
century chugs along; society and people change over time. So I say it's
time for the controlling entities to do something outrageous and daring,
and have people flapping their tongues about it. Create attention!
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:17:39 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
What if anything is the difference between the claimed decline in classical
music's tunefulness and what I suspect is an actual such decline in popular
music?
While I was growing up, I was surrounded by what I would call tuneful
popular music, music that we could usually hum, whistle or sing after a
single hearing and that was liked across the span of generations. What
generally passes for popular music today just doesn't seem to fit that
description, at least for me. Yet I must acknowledge today's popular
music is indeed popular, w/ people spending what would have been my
father's weekly salary to attend a concert that I'm surprised they can
still hear above the noise they themselves often make. Present a concert
of the music that was popular before 1955 and I think they'd stay away in
droves.
But the opposite seems to be the case w/ classical music. My own view
of whatever we may choose to call modern classical music, which I honestly
believe reflects more or less that of most of today's concert goers, is
not to sneer it away as cacophony but, aside from some "classical" moderns,
like Bartok, Prokoffiev, Shostakovich, and some of Berg, Schoenberg,
Webern, and a few others, I feel more comfortable w/ J.S. Bach, Chopin,
Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, or Brahms. (Actually, I might go out of
my way to hear music by Sessions or Carter, and the new generation of
Russians, usually out of curiosity, and won't feel that my time has been
wasted, but I don't rush to hear those works again right away, the way I
did when I first heard Schubert's "Unfinished Symphony".)
I may be dead wrong in my assessment of the general assessment of today's
popular as well as classical music, but if I'm not, I wonder what accounts
for the different receptions both types receive compared with earlier
versions of both.
Walter Meyer
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:37:10 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
There is certainly one on Hungaroton, on a CD with percussion music played
by the Amadinda group. I don't recall if they are all men - the issue of
having ... the right stuff, let's call it, remains unresolved. But the
recording exists.
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:22:20 -0500
From: Joel Hill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
I have lots of copies of my new Piano Concerto CD containing 80 minutes of
silence. The advantage to my CD is that you can record whatever you want
on it if you don't like it.
It is also available in the 74 minute version at a reduced price.
Joel Hill
Tallahassee, FL - USA
ALKAN Web Page: http://www.nettally.com/joelhill/alkan
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 02:21:44 +0100
From: David Runnion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Peter Lundin wrote:
>Dave Runnion call his mp3 site "tramuntana"
>
>>http://mp3.com/tramuntana -- improvised chamber music
>
>Writing this I was listening to Gosta Nystroem's Sinfonia Tramontana
>(1965), what is one of those little things is that I put it on seconds
>before starting to read Dave's post...
Cool! Isn't that appropriate! I wonder if it's the same. Our Tramuntana,
in addition to the name of the rugged mountain range on the north coast
of Mallorca, is a cold wind that blows across the Med from the north,
something like the mistral in Provence.
Dave Runnion
http://mp3.com/tramuntana
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:34:01 -0200
From: Edson Tadeu Ortolan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Lampson questions:
>"why call it music?" And if we call that music, then what other
>non-artistic human activities are music? All of them? Everything is music,
>whether it is sound or not? That's the most inclusive definition I've ever
>seen, and certainly gently strokes an egalitarian philosophy, but I'm not
>sure what it buys us in real life.
I try to answer:
"The music can be the activity around any sound event." - G. Stefani
"Why cannot be capable to appreciate the aleatory and free sounds that
we call "silence"?" - A. Cicero
"Music is, sometimes, a chair." - J. Cocteau
"The most beautiful music will be what our heart to listen." - Persian
Thought
"To compose music means the intelligence to express for sound." - I.
Xenakis
Nor only of sounds we can compose music. Music will be what an artist to
name MUSIC. Why not?
Edson Tadeu Ortolan
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:59:18 +0100
From: Peter Lundin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
It seems like Dave and I are in relative agreement on John Cage's vision
on the enviroment as a carrier of music. If I unintentionally implied
that the misconceptin was Dave's I appologise. I was trying to make a
general statement. Mostly that "music" is a term defined by the cultural
conditioning of the induvidual and what she builds this term from differs
from human to human.
I do not see why recording 5 minutes of intentional silence would be more
ridicoulus (literal or not) than 5 mins of any piece for the 200th time.
As for any technical difficulties in capturing 4'33 in a "live" situation
I think that Dave overstate the limitations of the media, I belive that
it would be best in 7.1 Dolby Surround.
As for the video Steve Schwartz mentions, I missed the infamous MTV
broadcast, but arround the time of Cage's demise there was a documentary
about his life that featured a full concert performance of 4'33, can't
remember the pianist involved. Or who made it, BBC/PBS/CBC?
peter lundin, gothenburg.se =8B Counting the days: DDS 100 (1906-2006)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:44:33 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
I'm glad to find someone who agrees with my opinions about Bryn Terfel.
Stephen Varcoe is a great favourite, and in these songs, Thomas Allen.
Not quite sure yet about Maltman: I'm not sure how long this voice will
last without "wobble" setting in. I have found, listening without knowing
the performer on the piano, that I can pick out Graham Johnson almost
instantly. I'm not a great fan of Malcolm Martineau. Roger Vignoles,
yes.(Have you heard his "I want to be a Prima Donna."?) Anyone else with
thoughts on singers/accompanists.? (There is an Acc.List on Yahoo-amatuers
like me and students/pros. Only a few of us-could do with some more..) I
have a treasured cassette from Radio Three of Kurt Moll and Cord Garben (?)
That such a deep voice can be so light and gentle- as in "Tom the
Rhymer"-quite wonderful. Just an occasionalwhiff of "Beethove" if anyone
knows this early-well, not music halll-but Cafe entertainer.
Doris; very busy/tired/but happy, with an 8 week old Golden Lab. (Andrex!)
puppy,called Sally. Perhaps "Sally in our Alley"-any relation to Sally" as
sung by Gracie Fields? Or Sally Gardens. No, for my duetting friend
Sally;very honoured she said!
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:49:46 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Len wrote of Intimations Of Immortality:
>An admittedly off topic aside, but everytime I see this I am inevitably
>reminded of its schoolboy corruption, "Imitations of Immorality".
Like the choisters' usual rendering in "The Angel Gabriel" -"Most highly
Flavoured Lady"?
Doris(Once in Canterbury Cathedral's 'Sunday Evening' Choir.)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:31:47 +1300
From: Stuart Sinclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Well, I for one, have enjoyed this CD, Steve, admittedly I have not as
much experience listening for all the datails as others on the list, but
I enjoyed Terfel singing the Finzi songs.
Cheers
Stuart
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:59:20 +0100
From: Peter Lundin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Steve Schwartz in listing Finzi's music makes me stop at:
>Intimations of Immortality -- a long, Brahmsian cantata, setting most of
>Wordsworth's long poem. It's a magnificent, virtuoso achievement, because
>that poem isn't all that easy to set. Finzi music sounds like the most
>natural thing in the world.
I heard a BBC live version of "IoI" in december, wonderful! Are there any
recomendable versions on CD?
peter lundin, gothenburg.se =8B Counting the days: DDS 100 (1906-2006)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:51:39 -0800
From: Michael Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chopin's Barcarolle
Jeffrey Hall wrote:
>Dear CM fans, I love Chopin's Barcarolle. What's your favorite recording
>of it, analog, digital, historic, etc.?
Cherkassky, Kissin, Lipatti, Zimerman. All highly characteristic
performances. Lipatti a bit muscular but good. Cherkassky at his highly
individual, warm-toned, sensitive best. Zimerman slow and rich, one of the
only people who could play it that slowly and still be convincing. Kissin
is Kissin.
Michael Cooper
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:39:39 -0800
From: Robert Berkoff <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chopin's Barcarolle
Jeffrey Hall writes:
>Dear cm fans. I love Chopin's Barcarolle. Whats your favorite
>recordings.
my two favorites:
Zimmerman on DG
Tropp on Denon
Robert Berkoff
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:28:23 -0600
From: Judith Zaimont <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Steve Schwartz originally wrote:
>I have the sneaky feeling that a composer who knows *exactly* what his
>piece will sound like before he actually hears it is perhaps not working
>at his peak. A composer who knows *exactly* is very likely a composer
>who has simply reproduced something he's heard before. He's not exploring
>or pushing himself or taking the chance that he will pull off something
>wonderful and new. Does a composer *have* to do this? Of course not. But
>doesn't there remain a feeling of roads not taken, possibilities not
>explored, El Dorados never looked for?
Two responses here: Sometimes we just write the music that *needs to
come out* at that time, without examining too closely whether it is highly
experimental (for ourselves as composers), or not. Most of the time we
know when we're writing a piece that is meant to be an experiment in sound,
or to try a new technique, or a new way of coping with the unrolling of
time, or ..... (My recent orchestra piece, 'Stillness', is just such an
experiment: it explores and tries to bring together some of the processes
of Delius and Morton Feldman, both being composers who knew how
[harmonically] to "stand still". Since much of my music is very un-still,
this was a purposeful trial on my part.) And sometimes we write a piece
that we know darn well is quintessential, exhibiting all the composer's
known (and presumably admired) idiosyncracies.
As to knowing exactly how it will sound ...! Last June's Cliburn
competition taught me that the composer can *never* be sure about this.
While 5 of the semi-finalists programmed my 'Impronta Digitale', and four
of them got it right more or less -- and certainly got it right in spirit
-- one of them re-interpreted this driven toccata as 'gossamer music', with
light and airy loopings. This interpretation was so far off my radar that
I almost didn't recognize the piece. (And, in case you're wondering, the
score was explicitly marked, certainly as to dynamics and metronome
markings.)
Ain't life -- and art -- grand!
Judith Lang Zaimont
Professor of Composition, School of Music - University of Minnesota
Composer WEBsite: www.jzaimont.com:8000
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:26:01 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Ed Zubrow ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
...
>The performance was too gentle and "classical." I know from comments in
>the interview with the conductor that this is what he was seeking. He
>succeeded, but in my opinion turned a tangy, fun American piece into a
>pale, PBS evening. Indeed, even the final "wrong" chord was drastically
>understated.
Out of interest, who was the conductor?
BTW, the last "wrong" chord was considerably *over*played by Bernstein in
his recordings. Liszten to the 1951 premiere (in the NYPO Bernstein box)
and you'll hear something quite different.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:22:23 EST
From: Bernard Gregoire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Ed Zebrow zings the Nashville Symphony using "corrections" to the Ives
Symphony #2 for misssing the point of Ives music. If the public television
performance was the same as the Naxos recording I own by the same group,
I heartily agree with his assessment. I believe that the so called
"corrections" are now the official manuscript sponsored by the "scholars"
asssigned by the Ives Society. To my ear the corrections are mostly
details which should make no difference in the overall effect of Ives
work accept when the conductor and musicians - in this case - distort Ives
spirit. IMHO Ives intended to "tweek" 19th/early 20th century pretentions
of serious conductors and listenners by encouraging certain liberties in
performance. In addition to his innovative music Ives was a practical
joker.
Bernie Gregoire
Hingham, MA
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:40:13 -0500
From: Roger Hecht <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Zemlinsky String Quartets, Part 1
Don Satz wrote:
>>From what I've read of Zemlinsky, I thought it likely that he was highly
>sexual.
According to Antony Beaumont's biography of Zemlinsky, this was very much
the case.
Roger Hecht
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:22:18 -0600
From: Max Starkenburg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Zemlinsky String Quartets, Part 1
Don Satz wrote:
>>From what I've read of Zemlinsky, I thought it likely that he was highly
>sexual. As for his music, it immediately has me feeling more attuned to
>sexual directions. I liken it to the smell of sex found in an adult men's
>club; the second you enter, it's in the air. And no, I haven't been to one
>for many years.
I guess this could also relate to those threads about "visualization
of music" and about composers making music for the whole range of human
experience, huh? This reminds me of one of my first impressions of that
part about halfway through the 1st movement of Prokofiev's 3rd piano
concerto, where there's that big build-up to the theme played dramatically
on the strings. I've always thought it was very, uh, let's just say
"climactic". Anybody else with a similar "visualization"? It surprised
me when one of my roommates told me that he had a similar impression of
the opening and closing theme of Prokofiev's 1st piano concerto!
>Poulenc is another composer I'd place in this category with Satie not far
>behind. Just speaking for myself of course. For all I know, there might
>be folks who get turned on by Mendelssohn. "Different strokes for
>different folks."
I guess Prokofiev is my kind of man!
Max Starkenburg
http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~maxwell
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:59:21 +0100
From: Grzegorz Lodyga <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Hello All
There are rather redisoveries:
1. Bach Kunst der Fuge/Charles Rosen; Essential Classics Sony. My
favorite performance of KdF. I like it more then Savall or Gould, it's
very fresh and lively.
2. Bartok Piano Works/Zoltan Kocsis; Philips Great Recordings. My first
Bartok for piano solo I want more!
and discoveries:
3. M.Wagner, Concerto for Flute, Strings and Percussion; P. Ruders
Concerto in Pieces / BRIDGE
and
4.P. Szymanski Partita III, Lux Aeterna, Partita IV, Miserere, Two Studies
for Piano; CD Accord
Both are excellent; new music for the people
I want to introduce myself: I'm not new on this list (I've been reading
you for about one year) but it's my first mail to you. I'm 38 and I've
listened classical music for about 10 years. Since 2001 I've learned
english. Bach is the best for me. Than Chopin and long, long nothing
and than all others.
Greetengs for all, and especially for Don Satz (for all Bach reviews) and
Steve Schwartz (for M. Wagner cd's review),
Grzegorz Lodyga, Krakow
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:35:34 -0600
From: Max Starkenburg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
I love this thread, because it gives me lots of inspiration for new music
to listen to. Here are my top discoveries of 2001, although I don't think
any of them were actually made last year:
1) TRIBUTE TO ROLF LIEBERMANN (Thorofon #2331)
I was lucky to pick this up at Tower in NYC. Why is this composer so
obscure? Furioso and the Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra are
both really powerful pieces, and my favorites on the disc.
2) MESSIAEN: TURANGALILA SYMPHONY (Naxos #8554478)
I heard this on the radio one night, and had to run out and get it the next
day. What a beautiful, strange, and long work! After listening a number
of times, it may get repititious and harsh in some places, but it's still
a treat. I just happen to have the Naxos, but my main recommendation is
the symphony in general.
3) DEBUT, INESSA GALANTE, SOPRANO (Campion #1335)
I can listen to this CD over and over and never get tired of it. She sings
a lot of the standard repertoire (according to my soprano friend), but it's
all sung gorgeously! It's a great combination/compilation of pieces. One
Amazon.com reviewer mentioned it would be one of his top 10 desert island
CDs, and I totally agree.
4) RZEWSKI: THE PEOPLE UNITED WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED! (Hyperion #67077)
AKA:El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido!, this is a 36-variation set on a
folk theme (Chilean protest song, no?). A real fun piece. I recommend
this recording especially because of Hamelin's powerful final cadenza, and
the inclusion of 2/4 North American Ballads which are also really fun.
5) GERSHWIN: PORGY & BESS (BMG/RCA Victor #2109)
This is the whole thing, on 3 CDs, about 3 hours long, but every minute of
it is great music, interpreted dynamically and beautifully by the Houston
Grand Opera. I prefer it over the recording by Rattle on EMI. BTW, I was
inspired to listen to the whole opera after hearing the 2-piano Fantasy on
P&B by Grainger, which is also fabulous.
6) BUSONI: PIANO CONCERTO
Sorry, had to add one more. I don't have any particular preference for
Ogdon, Hamelin, or Ohlsson; I just love this piece. A 70-minute concerto
with male chorus in the final movement. It might not be too catching the
first few listens, but it gets more wonderful each time. Very epic.
Max Starkenburg
http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~maxwell
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 02:08:48 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Virginia Knight wrote:
>I have found two other years which are similarly low on major
>anniversaries: 2016 (Satie, Reger, Granados, Busoni, Dutilleux) and
>2029 (Soler, Zelenka, Respighi).
Well, for me in 2016 will be a major anniversarie: Eric Satie! For me he
is one of the great masters.
Robert
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 02:26:15 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Evelyn Tubb CD
I am not sure on which List I was asked about the availaility of Evelyn
Tubb's CD "The Mad Lover" It has appeared in CD Selections, at 3.99., p &
p 2.95, with 65pence surcharge for overseas postage.
http://www.cdselections.com/
I have bought from them and found their service very good.
Doris.<><
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:11:25 -0500
From: Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Subject Matter and Content
I came across an old quotation, in the liner notes to a Mingus album of
all places, that I thought had some bearing on a number of discussions on
the list recently. The album was recorded in 1957 and the citation of
the quote says it is from "some time ago," so I can't guess when it was
written.
However, it is by a British critic who some members may remember named John
Berger. He writes:
"...there is a fundamental confusion about the relationship between
form and content...I should emphasize that content is not the same
thing as subject matter; it is what the artist discovers *in* his
subject. It is its content that the artist distils from life and
which, through its influence on the spectator (or listener) as he
comprehends it, flows back into life. The function of form of a work
is to concentrate, to hold the pressure of both the artist's and
spectator's experience of the content."
This sounds to me similar to the notion that an artist first has a
conception which he/she subsequently is inspired to turn into a subject
through the means of his/her compositional (disciplined) skill.
Ed
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:58:16 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Widowed, Again
"Liaisons," from "A Little Night Music," kept running in my head at the
War Memorial all night long. "What was once a sumptuous feast is now figs.
No, not even figs. Raisins!"
Although graced by Frederica Von Stade in the title role, the second run of
the San Francisco Opera "The Merry Widow" - in Lotfi Mansouri's slapstick
production - brought Madame Armfeldt painful lament into sharp focus.
So extreme is Mansouri's misguided, heavy-handed bufoonery that even
Flicka' s Grove-defined "musicianship, well-schooled high mezzo-soprano,
dramatic ability and personal charm" can't do much with this mess.
A significant cut from the December version of Wendy Wasserstein's
flat-footed, "updated" dialogue ("rolling blackouts" indeed) helps, but
not enough during the first two never-ending acts.
There is relief at the end, thanks to Lawrence Pech's vigorous, imaginative
choreography, danced brilliantly by Amanda McKerrow and - especially - John
Gardner, helped along greatly by the accompanying "symphonic Lehar" segment
under Erich Kunzel's direction.
It is at this point that one is reminded what this piece is about. Lehar's
Austro-Hungarian, Viennese puff-pastry, with all its syrupy music, has a
time and a place, a setting, a mood - and it is NOT a Three-Stooges circus
routine.
"Merry Widow" is a operetta, light-hearted music theater: it does not
need to be made into something big and weighty but it doesn't deserve to
be mocked either. At its best, it should be light, elegant, charming,
gemutlich. At its worst, it's Mansouri making the actors bump into one
another, fall down, and generally behave in an idiotic manner.
The Grisettes' scene is right out of the "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas,"
as performed by the touring company, at the end of the tour. (Of course,
Mansouri plays no favorites, having done the same thing to "L'elisir
d'amore," unforgivably.)
So, given all this, how is the second run of "Widow"? Better than the
first, which is damning with faint praise. The music is transposed down
for Flicka (as it was at the Met) and tonight, in obvious ill health, she
struggled with it even so. The crystalline diction, the fine projection,
the big smile - they were all there, but the usual brightness and warmth
of the voice were often missing.
The new Danilo is Rodney Gilfry, in a fair-to-middling Thomas-Hampson Light
performance, a round - no, rotund - sound and frequent dropouts, a sort of
anti-legato punctuated by specks musical anti-matter. His stage manner
(when not dictated by Mansouri) shows an excellent fit for operetta.
Isabel Bayrakdarian's Valencienne and Gregory Turay's Camille are accurate
but seriously underpowered. The Pontevedrians (Carlo Harmann as the
ambassador, Bob Amaral, William Saetre, Peter Strummer and Elijah Chester
as Njegus) may well be fine actors and/or singers, but you cannot tell from
this production, in which they are grossly abused by the director. . .
along with the audience.
Janos Gereben/SF
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:14:29 +0000
From: Janice Rosen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Wagner Society Reminders - Elise Kirk & Lyric Parsifal
Hope to see you all at the upcoming Wagner Society of Washington, DC
events. Please check the web site http://www.wagner-dc.org or call
(301) 907-2600 for more details.
Wagner Society Reminders - Elise Kirk (Jan 17); Lyric Parsifal (Feb 21)
Dear Members and Friends,
Here is a reminder about a couple of events you will not want to miss!
I. ELISE KIRK, author of the new book on American opera, will lecture on
"Wagnerism and the American Muse"
THURSDAY, JANUARY 17, 2002 AT 7:30 PM
Funger Hall 108, George Washington University
2201 G Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. (23rd and G)
II. LYRIC OPERA OF CHICAGO PERFORMANCE OF PARSIFAL
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2002 at 6 PM -- some tickets still available!
DEADLINE FOR Parsifal TICKET PURCHASE: January 20 (Call 301.907.2600)
This is a new production by Nicholas Lehnhoff, Sir Andrew Davis
conducting with the following cast: Parsifal: Gosta Winbergh;
Kundry: Catherine Malfitano; Amfortas: Hakan Hagegard; Gurnemanz:
Matti Salminen; Klingsor: Egils Silins. (for more information:
see http://www.wagner-dc.org or call 301.907.2600)
Ticket prices -- orchestra at $155 or $125; upper balcony at $55 --
include a tax-deductible donation to the Wagner Society of Washington
D.C. Payment may be made by check or credit card (VISA and Mastercard
only).
Ticket holders are responsible for arranging their transportation
and lodgings in Chicago. Arrangements may be made for a backstage
tour or other events.
Janice Rosen
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 07:57:47 -0500
From: Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Four Last Songs
Every time I listen to Strauss' Four Last Songs, I have the feeling that
the first of the four, Fruhling, doesn't really fit with the set. Neither
its music nor its words seem to fit the pensive, valedictory tone of the
rest.
Indeed its title means "Spring" in English and the poem seems to speak an
awareness of a resurrection that each spring brings.
Although written earlier, I think a song like Brefreot, (Set Free), which
sets a poem by Dehmel would make a more convincing piece for the group.
Ed
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 08:44:41 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Debussy's Twelve Etudes for Piano, Part 1
Claude Debussy wrote his twelve etudes in the late summer of 1915, just
three years before his death. At this time, he was already quite ill from
cancer, and it is amazing that he could compose the twelve pieces in only
two months. The concentration of the Etudes is stunning; the first book is
concerned primarily with the principles of harmony while the second book
concerns itself largely with texture, sonority, and tone color.
These pieces are extremely difficult to perform, and Debussy even stated
that he was not fully up to the task. Structurally, the music is quite
complex as it is essentially non-developmental. The role of melody becomes
a localized function, while other aspects such as timbre and harmonic color
assume greater importance. One certainty is that the Etudes do not lend
themselves to a spoon-feeding of the listener; one must give the pieces
total concentration and frequent listenings in order to fully grasp the
music's properties and delights.
Debussy dedicated the Etudes to Chopin which seems reasonable in light of
the fact that Chopin wrote a series of Etudes and that Debussy was editing
Chopin works in 1915. The world had not heard such music as the Debussy
Etudes prior to 1915, and subsequent generations have been fortunate that
Debussy did not succumb to cancer at an earlier date.
These are the recordings of the Etudes for your consideration:
Francois-Joel Thiollier - Naxos 8.553294
Maurizio Pollini - Deutsche Grammophon 423678
Paul Jacobs - Nonesuch 79161
Martin Jones - Nimbus 1773
Mitsuko Uchida - Philips 422412
Werner Haas - Philips Duo 438721
Paul Crossley - Sony 53281
Florent Boffard - Harmonia Mundi 911733
Peter Frankl - Vox Box 5063
Please note that the Jones/Nimbus recording is part of a five-cd set
of Debussy's complete piano works selling at a super-bargain price; the
initial issues were released separately with the Etudes being on Nimbus
5164. Concerning the Crossley/Sony complete Debussy volumes, they have all
been deleted by Sony. This leaves the company with a very skimpy catalog
for Debussy's piano music, but I certainly wouldn't question the great
minds of industry. As it happens, these Crossley recordings do crop up now
and then in the used cd sections of stores; also, Berkshire Record Outlet
can often be found to have one or more of the volumes.
Each of the above artists is at least fairly well known except for Florent
Boffard. His disc is one of the many that Harmonia Mundi has issued under
its "Les Nouveaux Interpretes" umbrella. Further, my recent acquisition
of this new disc is the primary reason for the review of a few recordings
of the Debussy Etudes. Boffard, born in 1964, studied at the Lyon
Conservatoire and then the Paris Conservatoire. He was a member of
the Ensemble Inter-Contemporain from 1988 to 1999 and has given first
performances of works by Boulez, Donatoni, and Ligeti. He has also played
under Simon Rattle, Leon Fleischer, and Pierre Boulez. Boffard is
currently professor of piano at the Paris Conservatoire.
Etude No. 1 (Pour le "cinq doigts") - This starts out as a potentially
annoying five-finger exercise but soon gives the listener the musical ride
of a life time. Jazz, gigues, lightning speed, tremendous power, and
sublime beauty are all on display. One never knows what's coming next,
only that it will be startling and delicious.
I find it illuminating how each of the nine artists approaches the first
etude. Jacobs gives the 'motorized' version; he presents an inner engine
that takes us through the wide array of diverse themes. His lyricism is
strong as is his momentum. Uchida, although no faster than Jacobs, seems
to streak through a sky loaded with bumps and angles. It's as if her
intent is to be as destabilizing as possible without losing control,
an approach she often takes with Mozart. Pollini is aristocratic; his
beginning exercise is relaxed, and the power he invests in the music is
generally on the low end. However, nobody highlights the music's beauty
and poetry like Pollini.
Francois-Joel Thiollier, even more than Pollini, lowers the voltage.
But the beauty and grace that Pollini finds is essentially absent in
Thiollier's performance. His low voltage is particularly negative in the
exploding conclusion; the dynamite is a dud. Add in the diminished variety
he brings to the etude, and the result is the least rewarding issue of the
nine. Thiollier does not present this music in a trailblazing manner.
Florent Boffard offers a strong and vital reading with plenty of sharpness
and also a nice lyricism; however, I didn't detect any special qualities to
the performance. This also applies to the Peter Frankl version except that
he gives me the impression that he's stuck in the pre-Debussy time period.
The reading is on the romantic side and not very daring.
At the beginning of the Werner Haas reading, I thought I'd be listening
to a carbon copy of Thiollier or Frankl. But Haas shows his credentials
before the first minute elapses, and those credentials include getting
the most out of the jazz elements in the piece as well as the sense of
improvisation.
I don't have positive feelings about either the Crossley or Jones
interpretations. Crossley is the slowest of the group, and it creates
damage through reduced momentum which can lead to lessened interest. Also,
there are times when Crossley sounds like a lounge pianist; that can be the
'kiss of death' to this etude. Martin Jones is entirely too polite and
well-buttoned.
For Etude No. 1, my allegience is with Paul Jacobs. His motor is
always running, the diversity he presents is admirable, and I consider
his interpretation a great all-around version. I'm also quite fond of
the Haas, Boffard, and Pollini performances.
Etude No. 2 (Pour les tierces) - This etude is a study in thirds;
they begin in the right hand with both hands eventually doing thirds
simultaneously. The 'thirds' create a constant shifting of color which
greatly adds to the diversity of the piece.
Speaking of diversity, it is an essential element of each of the
twelve Debussy Etudes. A performance which seems to diminish the music's
diversity becomes a non-starter, and that's the place where Pollini
presides as he takes over the bottom spot from Thiollier. Pollini, in his
head-strong determination to move through the 2nd Etude, totally neglects
the shifting of colors and most everything else which could vary. It's a
one-dimensional reading based on driving the music forward which is not
worthy of the etude.
Each of the remaining versions is very rewarding, but two issues most
stand out as my preferred versions - Thiollier and Frankl. I was a little
surprised at these results, given that neither artist was particularly
distinctive in the first etude. However, I can't deny that both are
forward-looking and heighten the diversity of the second etude; they
are also excellent alternatives to one another. Frankl gives a quick
performance with stunning shifts of color. Even better is Thiollier's
slow-paced reading which savors every nuance and is still highly animated;
the performance is often hypnotic.
Etude No. 3 (Pour les quartes) - A study in fourths, Debussy believed that
the fourth interval was not very interesting. His solution was to create
a piece with constantly changing material; with little exception, there is
not any recall of previous material. So much invention is packed into this
etude and includes gamelan effects, jazzy phrasing, and a wonderful blend
of extremely powerful fourths mixed with shimmering and highly lyrical
ones.
I find that 'atmosphere' is the final ingredient conveyed in a great
performance. This is music evocative of the Orient and quite a few other
sources as well. Atomosphere is what's most lacking in the versions from
Thiollier, Crossley, and Jones. In particular, Jones could be giving us a
depiction of London. He seems to not have a clue about the nature of the
music, and his very slow pacing makes the piece drag.
Pollini, Boffard, and Uchida are a big step up from the above three
performances. They provide a decent atmosphere and are more powerful and
lyrical. Even better are Jacobs and Frankl who do a great job of conveying
the Oriental influences. Best of all by a wide margin is Werner Haas.
>From the mysterious and soft beginning, it is clear than Haas has zoned
in on the Orient. Later, his jazz rhythms have great impact as well his
tension-laden trills. Also, his version is the most lyrical of the nine
issues with powerful fourths of dramatic beauty.
Etude No. 4 (Pour les sixtes) - This may well be the most gorgeous music in
the series. It astounds me that a chain of sixths can be transformed into
such a transcendent masterpiece. Atmosphere plays an important role here
as in the 3rd Etude; this time it is sultry and sensual. Of course, it's
also important to highlight the diverse patterns Debussy weaves. That
Martin Jones does neither is not surprising; he tends to distance himself
from the music. The lackluster performance from Peter Frankl does surprise
me, but no matter how often I listen to his reading, it leaves me flat. He
just does not provide the diversity nor sensuality.
Feeling that "Pour les sixtes" is music to savor, I have a little problem
with quick versions in the 3 1/2 minute range. That's where Pollini and
Haas reside; each plays idiomatically but there's little time nor space to
really get inside the music. Uchida, Thiollier, and Boffard leave plenty
of time to savor the music, provide a clear and detailed picture, pick up
well the jazz elements, and bring out the full beauty of the etude. Jacobs
is something else with an extremely slow reading of almost six minutes.
Yet the music never sags as he makes each note interesting and meaningful.
At the top of the pile is Paul Crossley. Although other versions give the
full beauty of the music, Crossley somehow exceeds that level. My view is
he does it by conveying the most sensual interpretion I've ever heard. The
sexuality is either seething underground or taking the highest mountain.
I consider this performance magical and illuminating.
Update: Thiollier has been blowing 'hot and cold', as he follows up an
adequate performance with an outstanding one. So far, he's more attuned to
a savoring of the music with slow tempos; when that approach is not viable,
he sinks quite a bit.
Uchida has not been the savoring type. She is bold, impetuous, and no ally
of 'even' flows. I'd say she has displayed the least amount of romanticism
of the nine performers. Although that's usually advantageous, there are
times when I feel she slights the beauty inherent in Debussy's music.
Pollini has been rewarding with just one complaint which unfortunately is
significant. Sometimes, he just drives too hard and fast as evidenced in
the second and fourth etudes. When he gets into this mode, the beauty of
his phrasing bites the dust.
Up to this point I have Martin Jones well below any of the alternative
versions. Jones needs to meet Debussy on other than a superficial level.
So far, I get no sense that he is even trying to enter Debussy's
soundworld. Although Jones plays well, he is entirely generic.
Crossley stunned me with his transcendent fourth etude, because he was
previously doing no better than Jones. Given his capabilities, I don't
know what to expect of him as I progress through his performances.
Frankl has been another 'hot and cold' performer. Too romantic in one
etude, he comes right back with a very forward-looking performance in the
next one.
I can't point to anything wrong with Boffard's interpretations or
technique. He does it all very well, but there's that 'extra something'
which never is on display. Boffard picks up on the jazz elements, is
forward-looking, provides fine detail, etc., but there are always other
performers who do it better.
Werner Haas and Paul Jacobs have been my preferred versions so far.
Jacobs hasn't given me the impression of any particular style, because he
appoaches each etude as a separate world and decides how he will enter and
explore it.
Always at the service of the music, his readings have been
thought-provoking and distinguished. Much the same applies to Werner
Haas who has delivered the most impact of all the versions in the
jazz-influenced music.
Before signing off, I'd like to say to I'm having a great time listening to
the Debussy Etudes. Their diversity and invention always amaze me. Like
all the great composers, Debussy can take just a little germ of a musical
idea and create a masterpiece. In the Etudes, this genius is consistently
on display.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:57:33 -0000
From: Len Mullenger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
1916 Ian Parrot b, Babbitt b Ginastera d, Butterworth d
1866 Cilea b
1816 Paisello d
1979 Harris d
1929 Crumb b Previn b Hoddinott b Leighton b
1879 Bridge b Ireland b Harty b Cras b Ostrcil b Scott b Cowell b Canteloube
b
1829 Gottschalk b Rubinstein b Giuliani d Gossec d
Regards
Len Mullenger
The Internet CD review site
www.TheClassicalSite.com
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:10:07 +0200
From: Juha Hapanen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
Mike Leghorn asks:
>Fascinating! What was Cage trying to accomplish with this piece? No one
>will be able to hear the performance, which, to me, means that it isn't
>really music.
I sence irony here, but be careful Mike! Cage is bravely exploring new
lands again, lands where no human hand ever put his foot, and what he
has accoplished is great, masterful, and splendid. Don't you think it is
wonderful how cage has showed how the arts and the music are stronger and
will survive everything! When it comes to me, I just wished that Cage had
made a piece much longer then 634 years, should neutrinobombs blast all
life away in the meantime, it would still sound in triumph!
Juha Hapanen
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:15:26 -0500
From: Rodney DeCecco <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chopin's Barcarolle
Chopin Barcarolle: Anthony Di Bonaventura. Perfection.
"Rodney DeCecco" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:28:34 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Debussy's Twelve Etudes for Piano, Part 1
Don Satz in another breathtaking survey:
>These are the recordings of the Etudes for your consideration:
Have you heard Gieseking?
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 07:50:26 -0500
From: Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Deryk asks about the Nashville Symphony performance of Ive's Symphony 2
>Out of interest, who was the conductor?
>
>BTW, the last "wrong" chord was considerably *over*played by Bernstein in
>his recordings. Liszten to the 1951 premiere (in the NYPO Bernstein box)
>and you'll hear something quite different.
I can't bring up the correct last name. I believe it is Andrew Schercheman
or something like that. He has recorded on Naxos I believe.
Your comment about the last chord is interesting. It is certainly an
example of "imprinting" as the Bernstein recording is the only one I have
heard. Still, in this instance it almost felt as if the conductor was
"apologizing" for the chord.
Ed
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:10:53 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Va Tosca
The January edition of "Tosca" arrived tonight in the War Memorial,
complete with new principal singers but little improvement over the
October-November run. Marco Armiliato led the orchestra in a peculiarly
leisurely manner, all the better to make up for what one would suspect
lack of rehearsals - "we did this number before, so why worry?" Never
did I hear a less intense, more unfocussed, dirge-like Te Deum.
The previous Eva Urbanova-Richard Leech-Franz Grundheber trio is replaced
by Elizabeth Whitehouse, Walter Fraccaro and Greer Grimsley, the soprano
and baritone making their San Francisco debut.
Whitehouse, from Australia, did well enough - nothing sensational, but
singing with good projection and accurately (which her colleagues didn't
quite manage), until "Vissi d'arte" rolled around. I can speculate why the
orchestra played so carefully, so unlike Armiliato's other performances,
but I can't begin to image the reasons for Whitehouse doing the opposite
of "belting out" the big aria. . . to a fault. She used a rehearsal-like
half-voice, never budging from being un-dramatic, acting and singing
differently from the rest of the evening. A miscalculation? Voice
problems? Whatever the reason, the aria - and Whitehouse - got a properly
underwhelmed reception. A quiet, sad "Vissi d'arte" is OK, but this was
just uninteresting.
Grimsley, from New Orleans, and known for his Escamillo in Peter Brook's
"La Tragedie de Carmen," had serious intonation problems tonight. His is
a fairly big voice, but it is without focus and punch. The voice seems
more comfortable in the high range, but it keeps going flat everywhere.
After Grundheber's always-reliable singing, this was not a Scarpia before
whom Rome trembled or in whom San Francisco rejoiced.
Fraccaro - who sang Radames and Don Jose here before, without making a
big impression - has a small, occasionally quite beautiful, and eminently
"Italian," voice. He hits high notes head on, but is inconsistent
otherwise.
Stanislaw Schwets (Angelotti) and Peter Strummer (Sacristan) repeated their
fine performances from the previous cast. Thierry Bosquet's reproduction
of the 1932 house-opening design still looks impressive. The sets are well
worth inspection at times when vocal weaknesses justify looking away from
the singers.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:18:15 +0200
From: Juha Hapanen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Your 2001 Discoveries
Achim Breiling wrote:
>William Schuman, violin concerto etc., Philip Quint, Bournemouth SO, Jose
>Serebier, Naxos 8.559083
I bought this disc but I was largely disappointed with the soloist.
The violinists playing was dull, flat, no independence or musical feeling
like if he thought too much on the rules. The same day I bought it I
went to the Chamberorchestra with Linda Lampenius playing Beethoven's and
Bartok's 2nd violinconcertos, and the experience was similar. Or perhaps
just my ears were out of tune that particular day. Bartok was played all
too weakly and Beethoven smashed out. In both cases I enjoyed however the
conductor (Oramo) and the orchestral playing immensly. It was so swift and
directly on the point...
My 2001 discoveries would however be:
1. Gunter Bialas Orchestral works on CPO. Splendid atonal music.
Decently played.
2. Geoffrey Mould's recording of "Faust" on CPO. I went over it by
chance. And as I could trade it in to spacial price it only costed me
2.30 Euro (abbrivated from then Mark), sometimes one is really lucky!
3. The meet with Gaya Kancheli. A really interesting composer.
4. Kurt Sanderling's Beethoven's symphonies set on some cheap 5-CD box.
The old madman Ludwig, exactly so right as he can be expected.
At last also:
5. Max Artved playing Nielsen, Bentzon, Norgard etc on Dacapo. Really
fine set all in all. Also an "expected" recording.
Juha Hapanen
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:32:34 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer wrote:
>What if anything is the difference between the claimed decline in classical
>music's tunefulness and what I suspect is an actual such decline in popular
>music?
For one thing, popular music of today is pervasive, and hard to get away
from, while music that was popular in the 50's and 60's is relatively
obscure today. However, with classical music, pretty much the reverse
holds, i.e. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, etc.. are popular among
classical music fans, while the contemporary stuff is relatively obscure.
Mike
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 17:36:02 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Satoshi Akima responding to Len Fehsken's challenge to name something
catchily tuneful by Schoenberg and his likes, writes:
>...1. Lulu: there is a recurring theme I would probably call the
>Lulu Leitmotiv which appears most prominently in the Act I Scene 2
>Verwandlungsmusik. I'd say this is probably the most singable 12-tone
>melody ever written.....
It's tuneful, all right, and it has, therefore, gained broad popular
acceptance. But as moderate and persuasive as the rest of Satoshi Akima's
posting is, all it really does is present a good case for aesthetical
acceptance of the pieces he cites. From my experience as an attender
I'd claim that popular reaction around me to most of the other works he
mentions (that is, the ones I've heard performed) has been consistently
negative--some more so, some less. The Second Vienna School has never
been broadly popular with attenders, and certainly not in Vienna itself.
The stuff just doesn't sound right to 'em. Period.
Denis Fodor
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:58:45 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Edson Tadeu Ortolan wrote:
>Dave Lampson questions:
>
>>"why call it music?" And if we call that music, then what other
>>non-artistic human activities are music? All of them? Everything is music,
>>whether it is sound or not? That's the most inclusive definition I've ever
>>seen, and certainly gently strokes an egalitarian philosophy, but I'm not
>>sure what it buys us in real life.
>
>I try to answer:
>"The music can be the activity around any sound event." - G. Stefani
>"Why cannot be capable to appreciate the aleatory and free sounds that
>we call "silence"?" - A. Cicero
Being "capable of appreciating", and calling it art are not equivalent in
my mind.
>"Music is, sometimes, a chair." - J. Cocteau
>"The most beautiful music will be what our heart to listen." - Persian
>Thought
>"To compose music means the intelligence to express for sound." - I.
>Xenakis
>
>Nor only of sounds we can compose music. Music will be what an artist to
>name MUSIC. Why not?
There's a considerable difference between the idea that anything might
be music (given a context, etc.), and the assertion that everything is,
a priori, music.
I can agree wholeheartedly with the former, I completely reject the
latter. Cocteau had it right: music is, *sometimes*, a chair. The key
word being *sometimes*. This distinction seems to be often lost in the
discussion.
Actually, a good many believe that music is, only very rarely, a chair.
Dave
[log in to unmask]
http://www.classical.net/
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:37:05 +0200
From: Juha Hapanen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Hike leghorn wrote:
>I would definitely prefer 4'33" of silence over 4'33" of MTV, which makes
>me think of an interesting question: whenever I use the mute on my TV, am
>I listening to John Cage? Or maybe a rip off of Cage?
Simple. If you mute your TV when Beethoven is being performed, are you
listening to Beethoven? The same goes for Cage.
Juha Hapanen
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:48:05 +0200
From: Juha Hapanen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Joel Hill wrote:
>I have lots of copies of my new Piano Concerto CD containing 80 minutes of
>silence. The advantage to my CD is that you can record whatever you want
>on it if you don't like it.
I didn't know of it. Where can it be ordered?
Juha Hapanen
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:35:21 +0100
From: Peter Lundin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Runnion responds to me:
>>>http://mp3.com/tramuntana -- improvised chamber music
>>
>>Writing this I was listening to Gosta Nystroem's Sinfonia Tramontana
>>(1965), what is one of those little things is that I put it on seconds
>>before starting to read Dave's post...
>
>Cool! Isn't that appropriate! I wonder if it's the same. Our Tramuntana,
>in addition to the name of the rugged mountain range on the north coast
>of Mallorca, is a cold wind that blows across the Med from the north,
>something like the mistral in Provence.
In the case of Nystroem I belive that He reffers to Tramontana as "Across"
or "Beyond" the moutains. In this case I think, him being a "Gallophile"
the mountains ought to be the Ardennes or perhaps just the Central European
Alps. Or if I may put on a layer of guesses, perhaps the "sea" beyond
those mountains as the oceans ment even more to him than did France!
peter lundin, gothenburg.se =8B Counting the days: DDS 100 (1906-2006)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:58:45 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Stuart Sinclair:
>Well, I for one, have enjoyed this CD, Steve, admittedly I have not as
>much experience listening for all the datails as others on the list, but
>I enjoyed Terfel singing the Finzi songs.
I'm certainly not the end-all of opinion in these matters. I can see why
Terfel has his admirers. He's got a beautiful voice. I just wish he'd use
it better.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:18:54 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gerald Finzi - Cello Concerto
Peter Lundin on Finzi's Intimations of Immortality:
>I heard a BBC live version of "IoI" in december, wonderful! Are there any
>recomendable versions on CD?
Hickox on EMD 64720. Handley had a very nice version on Lyrita, but I
don't know of its CD availability.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:50:55 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Lampson writes:
>As the focus provided by a concert experience (i.e., and audience sitting
>reverently awaiting the delivery of music) can not be captured in a
>recording, as far as I'm concerned the idea is ridiculous in the literal
>sense: it doesn't make sense. Either that, or recorded silence is indeed
>the only viable "recording" of 4'33".
Ah, but could the ambience of the listening environment play the same role
as the ambience of the performance envionment?
len.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:52:29 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Joel Hill writes:
>It is also available in the 74 minute version at a reduced price.
So these cuts are sanctioned by the composer?
len.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:55:36 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]> writes, reasonably:
>Actually, a good many believe that music is, only very rarely, a chair.
...when it's fitted with a whoopee cushion?...
Denis Fodor
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:53:59 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
I meant, if I'm watching, oh, let's say "ER", and I mute the sound, am I
listening to Cage?
Mike Leghorn
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:01:22 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer writes:
>What generally passes for popular music today just doesn't seem to fit
>that description, at least for me. Yet I must acknowledge today's popular
>music is indeed popular, w/ people spending what would have been my
>father's weekly salary to attend a concert that I'm surprised they can
>still hear above the noise they themselves often make.
I am surprised by the rampant overgeneralization and stereotyping that has
characterized much of this discussion. "Pop music" is every bit as varied
as classical music, and the same kind of "it's junk" vs. "it's great art"
debates rage amongst fans of different styles of pop music.
One instance, or one subgenre, does not stand for or represent an entire
spectrum of expression. Extrapolating from that single example to sweeping
generalizations about the entire "supergenre" is faulty reasoning.
len.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:26:25 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor, replying to Satoshi's listing of his favorite atonal "tunes":
>It's tuneful, all right, and it has, therefore, gained broad popular
>acceptance. But as moderate and persuasive as the rest of Satoshi Akima's
>posting is, all it really does is present a good case for aesthetical
>acceptance of the pieces he cites. From my experience as an attender
>I'd claim that popular reaction around me to most of the other works he
>mentions (that is, the ones I've heard performed) has been consistently
>negative--some more so, some less. The Second Vienna School has never
>been broadly popular with attenders, and certainly not in Vienna itself.
>The stuff just doesn't sound right to 'em. Period.
But what do we make of this? Based on my own concert experience, I'd hazard
the guess that they probably would react the same way to Nielsen, Bartok,
and Copland. This begins to sound like the argument for keeping anything
really interesting off American TV, on the grounds that it's not good for
children or that it will offend this or that group.
As I say, I put up with lots of stuff I really wouldn't bother leaving the
house for, just to hear *occasionally* something I don't already have in
my CD collection. I really don't think it's too much to ask that maybe
once or twice a year (so my powerful brain doesn't blow itself up), someone
educates me. I realize Denis is in a better position than I am (the Munich
Phil vs. the Louisiana Phil), but not everybody lives in Munich or better.
I look at audiences in my city and see very few young people. Almost no
teenagers, for example. By catering to alte Kocher like me, programming
committees just may be building in their own obsolescence.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:55:36 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, etc.. are popular among classical
>music fans, while the contemporary stuff is relatively obscure.
One of our two classical radio stations here has lately begun playing
quite a bit of movie music. I'd never paid much attention to the genre
before, but I'm getting used to it. Most of it sounds well in respect of
orchestration. The composers seem to know their instruments and command
the craft to make them serve their imagination. Music from E.T., Gladiator
and, more recently, something going under the name of Poltergeist come to
mind. The hitch, of course, is that the stuff comes in blurts and spurts
and not in elaborated structures, like a complete symphony. But I must
admit, with just a smidgeon of shame, that some of it gives me pleasure.
Denis Fodor
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:05:56 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ASLAP - As Slow As Possible
According my my personal definition of art, which is very loose for the
most part, I believe that art cannot outlast humanity. Art is nothing if
it's not appreciated (or at least has the potential to be appreciated),
and because art is so human, only humans can appreciate it.
Mike Leghorn
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:55:56 +0100
From: Anthony G Morris <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Four Last Songs
Ed Zubrow penned:
>Although written earlier, I think a song like Brefreit, (Set Free), which
>sets a poem by Dehmel would make a more convincing piece for the group.
An interesting phenomena is the effect of publisher's work titles on
the compositons of composers, like "The Four Seasons" and a Vivaldi
publisher, the term "Vier Letzte Lieder" was not given by the composer
to this collection of works. Strauss would not have seen these as his
last songs.
"Vier Letzte Lieder" is best seen as a set of songs published last i.e.
"Four of the last songs" in preference to "THE Four Last Songs" (which they
weren't anyway), and that this is purely a publishers reference for the
edition.
One would be quite justified in programming other songs with any of these
in a concert. Although, of course, it is a subjective evaluation as to
whether these four can be bettered by any other collection.
Many greetings,
Anthony Morris
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:16:31 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Four Last Songs
Ed Zubrow wrote:
>Every time I listen to Strauss' Four Last Songs, I have the feeling that
>the first of the four, Fruhling, doesn't really fit with the set. Neither
>its music nor its words seem to fit the pensive, valedictory tone of the
>rest.
>
>Indeed its title means "Spring" in English and the poem seems to speak an
>awareness of a resurrection that each spring brings.
My criticism is that a poem (and a Lied!) about full life in summer would
make a good bridge between "Fruehling" (Spring) and "September" (symbol for
Fall). It is a awkwardly fast transition from spring to fall. But maybe
Strauss wasn't in the mood anymore to write about life in full (and make it
"Five Last Songs"). Anyway, summer is there in "September" which is a poem
about personified summer going to sleep.
But to defend Strauss' choice of text: "Fruehling" is not so bad because
the poem begins with a description of lying in "daemmrigen Grueften"
(darkening tombs) and the whole cycle ends with the words "ist dies etwa
der Tod?" (is this perchance death?). So the words create a circle and
round off the cycle.
BTW I am a sucker for German poetry and always regret that many composers
have such strange poetical tastes: Eichendorff's "Im Abendrot" is a
masterpiece but Hesse (the writer of the other three poems) and Dehmel (who
Ed would prefer) are not the best of poets, to say the least. Ah, "Four
Last Songs" with four poems by Eichendorff set to music, what a vision!
Robert
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:40:20 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Ed Zubrow on the conductor of the Naxos Ives 2nd:
>I can't bring up the correct last name. I believe it is Andrew
>Schercheman or something like that. He has recorded on Naxos I believe.
Kenneth Schermerhorn. A quick search of the catalogues shows that he
recorded a number of CDs for Marco Polo back in the 80s, but the Ives
and another Naxos CD containing Hanson's 1st, also with the Nashville
orchestra, are his first for some time. The notes for the only CD I have
of him, Richard Strauss's Symphony in D Minor, on Marco Polo and recorded
in Hong Kong in 1985, says that he is a native of Schenectady, New York,
and graduated from the New England Conservatory in 1949. Various
appointments are listed. In the mid-80s, he was chief conductor of
the Milwaukee Symphony.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:08:23 -0600
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
Deryk asks about the Nashville Symphony performance of Ive's Symphony 2
>>Out of interest, who was the conductor?
Ed Zubrow responds:
>I can't bring up the correct last name. I believe it is Andrew Schercheman
>or something like that. He has recorded on Naxos I believe.
That would be Kenneth Schermerhorn. He was music director of the Milwaukee
Symphony for several year, in the 1970's, and before that he was conductor
for American Ballet Theatre, I believe. One of his last perfomances in
Milwaukee was a very fine Mahler 7th. He was active in France for a while
at least and also conducted the Hong Kong Symphony, with which he recorded
a Cui piece for Naxos. He recorded Barber's First Symphony also, as I
recall, but I don't remember the specifics.
Jim Tobin
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:00:36 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Right Note/Wrong Note
I think the last chord to Ive's 2nd Symphony was intended as a joke --
it certainly made me laugh the first time I heard it. I think Bernstein
was enjoying the joke, and "milking it" a bit, which I think was totally
appropriate.
Mike
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:54:23 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Anniversaries of 2002
Len Mullenger wrote:
>1916 Ian Parrot b, Babbitt b Ginastera d, Butterworth d
>1866 Cilea b
>1816 Paisello d
>
>1979 Harris d
>1929 Crumb b Previn b Hoddinott b Leighton b
>1879 Bridge b Ireland b Harty b Cras b Ostrcil b Scott b Cowell b Canteloube
>b
>1829 Gottschalk b Rubinstein b Giuliani d Gossec d
I rest my case. I don't rate any of these higher than Walton (2002's
biggest anniversary), and there are dozens of composers I think are better
than Walton.
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:16:59 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Britten Early Works
Benjamin Britten
* Young Apollo
* Double Concerto for violin, viola, & orchestra
* Two Portraits for string orchestra
* Sinfonietta for small orchestra
Gidon Kremer (violin), Yuri Bashmet (viola), Nikolai Lugansky (piano)
Halle Orchestra/Kent Nagano
Erato 3984-25502-2 Total time: 58:36
Summary for the Busy Executive: New kid on the block.
Right now, it looks as if Britten is poised to enter the Temple of the
Eternally Great, although the general critical judgment of his work has
changed somewhat: from that of a brilliant all-rounder like Mozart to that
of primarily a superb opera composer. I tend to side more with the earlier
assessment. At any rate, with the status of classic hanging about him,
however, performers have begun to shed light on the darker places of his
output: the radio, stage, and movie music, the student works (misleadingly
labeled), and the pieces of the Thirties leading up to the Variations on a
Theme of Frank Bridge. None of the works on this CD, with the possible
exception of the Sinfonietta, can claim a large fan base. Indeed, the
producers claim three recording premieres: the Double Concerto, the Two
Portraits, and the chamber-orchestra version of the Sinfonietta. I believe
it's more like two premieres, since I have a Lyrita recording of this
incarnation of the Sinfonietta (SRCS.111, Norman Del Mar conducting). So
I wonder about Colin Matthews's very convincing explanation (Britten left
the only version of the score in the U.S. when he returned to England
in 1942).
The Two Portraits come from 1930, Britten's 16th or 17th year. He had by
then studied privately with Frank Bridge for about two years. He scored
the work for strings, adding a solo viola in the second movement - "E. B.
B.", a self-portrait, as it turns out. Britten played the viola and
received at birth the name Edward Benjamin Britten. At any rate, the
string writing is jaw-droppingly expert, particularly startling in one so
young, the independence of parts preternaturally clear, without a trace of
academicism. Even before his opus 1, Britten has found his early voice.
Furthermore, both portraits run to some length. In their artistic
maturity, the Portraits rival Mendelssohn's Octet. Indeed, in all the
works on this CD, one notices Britten's ability, barely out of short pants,
to conceive of a movement entire and organic, free of dependence on
textbook models. The first portrait, for example, varies a single idea
over changes in sonority and rhythm without ever running out of gas. The
second shows traces of the English pastoral school, as seen in the Warlock
circle, particularly E. J. Moeran, and even in John Ireland. This
movement also grows out of a single idea - indeed, an idea that doesn't
promise very much. However, the young composer spins straw into gold and
produces a piece of grave beauty. Britten calling these works "portraits"
and identifying the sitters tempt one to connect the music to the people.
The first portrays a school friend of Britten's, David Layton. The music
is impetuous and suave at the same time. The self-portrait second is
introspective and quiet. Beyond that, I can't say any more.
Erwin Stein first argued convincingly of the influence of Schoenberg's
first chamber symphony on Britten's Sinfonietta. I would modify that a
bit and say that Schoenberg's tonal output of the 1900s influenced Britten.
Keep in mind that Britten hasn't even reached his twenties, and he's
already making something fruitful and individual from the "advanced" music
of Europe. All the ideas of all three of its movements link together in
its opening paragraphs, as in Beethoven's fourth piano concerto, and
constant motific variation is the key procedure. The sonority - bright,
brittle, and above all clear - lies worlds away from Schoenberg's lushness,
much more in the neighborhood of Stravinsky's Symphonies of Wind
Instruments and Hindemith's Kammermusiken. I prefer the chamber orchestra
version (expanded strings and a second horn) to the original ten-piece
group, which has always sounded a little dry to me.
Young Apollo has received other recordings, most notably from Rattle and
Birmingham on their 2-CD Britten boxed set, EMI 54270, but hasn't yet
become a bona fide hit. God knows why. One of the composer's most
gorgeous works, Britten wrote it on commission from the Canadian
Broadcasting Corporation while he lived in North America in the late
Thirties and early Forties. Its unusual scoring features a piano and
string quartet against a string orchestra, and so sure is Britten's touch
that the three groups create three separate planes of sound throughout.
It premiered with the composer at the piano, apparently to great success.
Despite this, for some reason he withdrew the score, but perhaps
ambivalent, he did not remove the opus number (16) and assign it to another
work. Inspired by the end of Keats's Hyperion fragment and "by such
sunshine as I've never seen before," Young Apollo apparently depicts the
awakening of Apollo to the awareness of his own deity, to ecstatic music.
Matthews points out something I wasn't aware of: its entire seven-minute
length is in the key of A major. Yet it pulses with brilliant invention
and life.
The big news is the Double Concerto for violin and viola, from 1932 when
Britten was roughly 19. It's a work so good, so masterful, you wonder
why Britten chose to lose it. In the liner notes, Colin Matthews implies
that Britten was unwilling to hand over the work to a student orchestra;
apparently, they had butchered the premiere of his Sinfonietta. Matthews
"realized" the orchestration but claims that Britten's instrumental
indications in the score were so precise that the result is "virtually 100%
Britten." Why Britten wouldn't have brought it out later, however, remains
mysterious. The work doesn't go as far as the Sinfonietta in the concision
of its material - each movement has its own ideas, for the most part - and
the string sonorities are more conventional than even those of the earlier
Two Portraits. The work ends with a headlong finale, which almost
imperceptively switches gears and ends with quiet recalls of the first
movement material. It's still not, perhaps, the Britten we know, but I
don't hesitate to call it profound and deeply expressive. If you're at all
a fan of the composer, this disc falls into the category of "must-have."
Nagano continues to show his rapport with the composer, with sympathetic
(perhaps even empathic) readings of the Two Portraits and the Sinfonietta
(simply, the best recorded performance I've heard). I prefer Rattle in
Young Apollo - even more brilliant. I need to hear others in the Double
Concerto. Although Nagano, Bashmet, and Kremer ably champion this work,
I sense room for an even greater performance. The sound is clear and
alive without suggesting elvish tweaks at the mixing board after the fact.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:25:34 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Byn Terfel and Malcolm Martineau on Radio Three, 14.1.2002.
At 7.30, this evening, on BBC Radio Three, there is a recital by these
artists, recorded, last night, at The Barbican. Schubert,Vaughan
Williams,Roger Quilter,Copland, Jake Heggle(Who he?) "The Moon is a Mirror"
(first UK perfoirmance) and Welsh songs. Ends 9.30.p.m. Try
www.bbc.co.uk/radiothree
Doris<><
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:26:22 -0500
From: Joel Hill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Len Fehskens wrote:
>Joel Hill writes:
>
>>It is also available in the 74 minute version at a reduced price.
>
>So these cuts are sanctioned by the composer?
Not just sanctioned, but encouraged!
Joel Hill
Tallahassee, FL - USA
ALKAN Web Page: http://www.nettally.com/joelhill/alkan
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:35:11 -0800
From: Ron Ratney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Concertgoers Groups
I'm looking for a group of concertgoers in the Boston, Massachusetts area
who get together to attend concerts in the area (or elsewhere for that
matter).
If you have a response, it might be better to send it to my mailbox,
[log in to unmask], rather than to the list.
Ron Ratney
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:46:00 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
William Copper writes:
>As someone who uses midi regularly, but still agrees with those who
>belittle it, my analogy is that midi is the Sculpey of music -- easy
>to use, fast setting, bakeable(?) -- but not the same as real clay.
I think you are mistakenly characterizing the medium by how it is most
commonly used, rather than by what it is capable of in the hands of those
willing to take the requisite time and effort.
len.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:13:00 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Powder Janacek's Face
Janos Gereben wrote on "The Diary of One Who Vanished":
>Still, Bostridge's forte, diction, comes to the fore again, and his
>Czech delivery is wonderfully clear, so much so that some of the text
>is understandable even with a basic knowledge of the language.
I was under the impression that when Bostridge toured with this work, he
sang a translation by Seamus Heaney. At least that was the plan. I wonder
why that version was not used in the recording. Did it not work very well?
Professor Bernard Chasan
Physics Department, Boston University
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:08:17 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Debussy's Twelve Etudes for Piano, Part 1
Steve Schwartz asks of me:
>Have you heard Gieseking?
Yes, although it's been a few years. Currently, I'm concentrating on his
Debussy Preludes in preparation for a little review project. I'll get
around to his Debussy Etudes before long.
I am curious as to the opinions of list members concerning their views on
the basic differences between Debussy's Preludes and Etudes and which set
of music is preferred(if there is a preference).
Don Satz
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:48:20 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cagey Question
Mike Leghorn:
>I meant, if I'm watching, oh, let's say "ER", and I mute the sound, am I
>listening to Cage?
Only if you think you are. Of course, the same is true if you *don't* mute
the sound.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:35:47 -0500
From: Mitch Friedfeld <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conscientious Customer Service
Walter wrote:
>I recently received the 6-CD set of music performed by Edwin Fischer from
>Music&Arts. This Saturday, 1/5, I got to listening to the last two discs
>and discovered that they were defective w/ clicking noises and repeats
>before stopping altogether. I wrote them an E-Mail to that effect.
>
>Today, 1/9, I received two replacement CDs in the mail, no prior questions
>asked. They're fine.
Second. They sent me two disc 4's and no disc 1 from the Fuertwangler La
Scala Ring. A replacement disc was in my mailbox just days after our
E-mail exchange.
Mitch Friedfeld
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:21 -0000
From: Karina Bonnier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lili Marlene in Italian
I heard 'Lili Marlene' for the first time in Italian on Radio 4 last week.
I have tried really hard to purchase the CD, but none of the shops I have
phoned in London can help me - so I wonder if anybody has a suggestion
where I could buy it from. The details from the CD are as follows: 'los
marcellos ferial' drl50018'.
I would be so grateful if anyone would be able to help me.
Kindest regards
Karina Bonnier
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:40:00 -0500
From: Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Brazilian Guitar Quartet
Contact: MariaElena Tobon, Music Director, ext 463
January 19 Family Concert with the Brazilian Guitar Quartet and Richard
Boukas / Jovino Santos Neto Duo
The Music Department of The Americas Society is pleased to announce a
Family Concert featuring the Brazilian Guitar Quartet and the Richard
Boukas / Jovino Santos Neto Duo on Saturday January 19, 2002 at 2:00 pm at
The Society's Salon Simon Bolivar, 680 Park Avenue, corner of 68th Street
& Park Avenue in Manhattan.
General admission to this concert is $5.00. Ticket Reservations can be
made by calling the Americas Society Box Office at 212-249-8950 or
212-628-3200 ext 463 or by e-mail at [log in to unmask]
Everyone from ages 3 and up is invited to this enjoyable and accessible
one-hour program which will feature classical guitar selections by J.S.
Bach, Isaac Albeniz and Brazilian composers Heitor Villa-Lobos, Antonio
Carlos Gomez and Francisco Mignone, with the unique Brazilian Guitar
Quartet, whose members are Paul Galbraith and Everton Gloeden, who perform
on 8-string Guitars, and Edelton Gloeden and Tadeu do Amaral, who perform
on 6-string Guitars. The Quartet appears by arrangement with Lisa
Sapinkopf Artists, who can be reached at (510) 428-1533.
The program will also include Brazilian Jazz compositions by Jovino Santos
Neto, pianist, flutist and composer well known worldwide through his
award-winning recordings and tours. Santos Neto was a band member with the
legendary Hermeto Pascoal for 15 years. He now performs as part of a duo
with Jazz guitarist/vocalist/composer Richard Boukas.
The Americas Society is a national not-for-profit institution dedicated to
informing people in the United States about the societies and cultures of
its Western Hemisphere neighbors. The Americas Society makes its programs
accessible to people with disabilities. Please call to make arrangements
for special needs. Visit their website at HTTP://WWW.AMERICAS-SOCIETY.ORG.
This event is made possible with the generous support of the Citigroup
Foundation and JPMorganChase. Additional support is provided by Credit
Suisse First Boston.
Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:23:04 -0500
From: Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vakhtang Jordania to Make Debut with Daegu City Symphony
Vakhtang Jordania To Make Debut as Conductor of South Korea's Daegu City
Symphony Orchestra
Vakhtang Jordania, the newly appointed Artistic Director of South Korea's
Daegu City Symphony orchestra, will make his conducting debut with that
orchestra on Friday, January 18 at the Daegu Culture and Arts Center.
The repertoire for this concert will be Verdi's Overture to "La Forza del
destino", Hummel's Oboe Variations, op. 102, with soloist Hee Sun Lee,
Professor at Kyung Hee University and Shostakovich's colossal Symphony No.
5.
This appointment requires Maestro Jordania to be in Korea for 15 weeks and
do 10 concerts with the orchestra in 2002. This will be the first of that
series.
Maestro Jordania, who currently lives just outside of Washington DC,
was born in the Republic of Georgia, where he studied piano from the
age of five. After graduating from the Tbilisi Conservatory, he studied
symphonic and operatic conducting at the Leningrad Conservatory, graduating
with honors. A top prize at the 1971 Herbert von Karajan Competition
catapulted him to the highest circle of Soviet artistry. From his
assistantship with the legendary Yevgeny Mravinsky until his defection to
the United States in 1983, Mr. Jordania held positions as music director
of the Leningrad Radio Orchestra, the Saratov Philharmonic, and the Kharkov
Philharmonic. The Tchaikovsky Competition was under his baton twice.
Conducting for more than one hundred concerts a year, he regularly toured
the USSR, collaborating with musicians such as David and Igor Oistrakh,
Leonid Kogan, Dmitri Shostakovich, Kiril Kondrashin, and Emil Gilels.
Immediately after his defection, he made his Carnegie Hall debut,
which was hailed by the New York Times as "a confident and spirited
performance...the full house leaped to its feet." Success quickly followed
in France, Germany, Austria, Holland, Belgium, Japan, Korea, Ireland,
New Zealand, Australia and South America. In the United States, his
appearances in New York, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis,
Rochester, Denver and Fort Worth brought more critical acclaim. Since his
defection, he has held music director and/or principal guest conductor
positions with the Chattanooga Symphony and Opera, the Spokane Symphony,
the Korean Broadcasting System Symphony Orchestra in Seoul, and currently
with the Russian Federal Orchestra of Moscow and Kharkov Philharmonic of
Ukraine, with whom he is appointed for life.
Mr. Jordania has regularly conducted at many prestigious opera houses,
including Russia's Bolshoi and Kirov theaters and, in the United States,
with the Minnesota Opera, where he conducted the North American premiere
of Dvorak's Rusalka. He is currently the artistic advisor of the Kharkov
Opera. His webpage is at http://www.jamesarts.com/vakjo2.htm.
His recordings began in the Soviet Union, where he recorded extensively
for the Melodiya label. He recorded many soundtracks, including the
award-winning film Dersu Uzala, directed by Akira Kurosawa. He has also
recorded for Koch International Classics, Soundset Summit, Helicon, Trained
Ear, Cantabile, and Angelok 1 and been nominated for Grammy Awards. For
more about his recordings, visit the Angelok1 website at
http://www.jamesarts.com/Angelok1.htm.
Daegu is the third largest city in South Korea. Located 200 miles south
of Seoul, Daegu illustrates the balance between tradition life and global
thinking. A river city surrounded by mountains and farmland, it has a rich
cultural life and tradition as well as being a hub of traditional markets
and the center of textile and steel industries. You can find much more
about Daegu at their city website - http://www.metro.taegu.kr/engcityhall/.
Fore more information about Maestro Vakhtang Jordania, please contact
Jeffrey James Arts Consulting at 516-797-9166 or
[log in to unmask]
Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:25:39 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Len Fehskens wrote:
>One instance, or one subgenre, does not stand for or represent an entire
>spectrum of expression. Extrapolating from that single example to sweeping
>generalizations about the entire "supergenre" is faulty reasoning.
Of course, I wasn't reasoning; I was asking. And while my statements might
have been read as generalizations, I did qualify my statements w/ words
indicating that I was simply stating my opinion.
It's difficult and perhaps impossible to explain, especially in a brief
post to a mailing list how one finds certain forms of music different from
other forms. I nevertheless feel that the popular music of today is as
different and remote from the popular music of my childhood and early
adulthood as much of the classical music being composed in the last few
decades differs from earlier classical music, but that today's popular
music has greater acceptance among listeners to popular music than much
recently composed classical music has among listeners to classical music,
and I wondered why.
Perhaps some will, in disagreement w/ my opinion, claim that today's
popular music is not very different from the songs from the musicals of
Rogers, Kern, Porter, Berlin, or the songs not necessarily identified with
musicals, like Stardust, The White Cliffs of Dover, or Two Sleepy People.
Those will of course see nothing strange in the successors to those who
flocked to buy single 78s of the above songs flocking again to hear the
popular music of today. I do hear a difference, however, and wonder at the
continuing popularity of the new as it is replacing the old, while whatever
the artistic merit of recently composed classical music, much of it is not
enjoying the same popularity as classical music composed in earlier times.
Walter Meyer
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:54:50 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz writes:
>Based on my own concert experience, I'd hazard the guess that they
>probably would react the same way to Nielsen, Bartok, and Copland.
This is certainly not the case in Boston, where these composers are
regularly received with great enthusiasm, but as has been noted frequently
in the forum, Boston is not exactly your typical American city.
len.
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:15:39 -0500
From: "Richard A. Ujvary" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Smart programming to me. With the decline in the number of classical
stations in the past few years, I think it makes sense for them to bring in
the soundtrack genre because there has been some fine music for the screen
in the vaults. Might not be everyone's cup'o'tea whoa re more traditional
in their tastes but if that medium is to survive it has to try to interest
and keep more listeners, i.e, for the station and ultimately for the whole
art. And again, it's music isn't it?
Rich
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:58:42 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Four Last Songs
I know that Strauss lived to be relatively old had had written the "Four
Last Songs" towards the end of his life. Did he choose the title "Four
Last Songs"? If so, was it because he concluded that he would die before he
would write more or was it simply a decision to write no more no matter how
much longer he would live?
Walter Meyer '48
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:57:55 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Four Last Songs
Anthony Morris resonding to Ed Zubrow:
>>Although written earlier, I think a song like Brefreit, (Set Free), which
>>sets a poem by Dehmel would make a more convincing piece for the group.
>
>An interesting phenomena is the effect of publisher's work titles on
>the compositons of composers, like "The Four Seasons" and a Vivaldi
>publisher, the term "Vier Letzte Lieder" was not given by the composer
>to this collection of works.
Indeed, he never heard them in their orchestral form, according to Del Mar.
>Strauss would not have seen these as his last songs.
I can't claim to read Strauss's mind. The fact remains that three of them
were his last songs (excepting the Eichendorff, which he wrote earlier).
He did intend more Hesse settings, but from the time of the present songs
were completed until his death, Strauss wrote no more music. This was
a man who wrote *something* nearly every day of his life. One might be
forgiven the conjecture that perhaps he had an inkling these were his last
pieces.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:04:28 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Four Last Songs
Anthony G Morris wrote:
>An interesting phenomena is the effect of publisher's work titles on
>the compositons of composers, like "The Four Seasons" and a Vivaldi
>publisher, the term "Vier Letzte Lieder" was not given by the composer
>to this collection of works. Strauss would not have seen these as his
>last songs.
>
>"Vier Letzte Lieder" is best seen as a set of songs published last i.e.
>"Four of the last songs" in preference to "THE Four Last Songs" (which they
>weren't anyway), and that this is purely a publishers reference for the
>edition.
Thank you for answering my question before I had a chance to post it!
Walter Meyer
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:51:50 -0800
From: John Smyth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer writes:
>Perhaps some will, in disagreement w/ my opinion, claim that today's
>popular music is not very different from the songs from the musicals of
>Rogers, Kern, Porter, Berlin, or the songs not necessarily identified with
>musicals, like Stardust, The White Cliffs of Dover, or Two Sleepy People.
It's an old argument, but I believe that as we increasingly delegate our
creative activity to a select few, whether Pollini or Poison, we decrease
our chances at following (appreciating) any musical argument beyond the
formulaic. Creating certainly gives a person a better chance at following
a "rigorous" musical argument, and yes, I believe the pop music of
yesterday can be more rigorously constructed than the pop music of our
time.
Beyond musical rigor, I believe that pop music is popular because its
creators make sure it's subject matter and sound is reconcilable with the
lifestyles and comportment of the audience it's meant for.
>...today's popular music has greater acceptance among listeners to popular
>music...
Are they really *listening*--out of time and out of place like we do?
And who are these people? A radio consultant friend of mine calls Top
40 stations--Heeeere I aaaaam with oooopen aaarms--"chick channels." That
leave the males who listen to Jazz, 70's Rock, Rap, Maudlin college station
white guy music, and Classical. (There was an interesting article on Jazz
and masculinity in the NYTimes--last Sunday was it?)
You might look at books regarding how to write a pop song. They're a
goldmine regarding what the public wants and how to give it to them: Are
you writing for males? Females? Age? No poetry, nothing shorter than 2'30"
nor longer than 4', no mixed meter, a clear hook--repeated as much as
possible; this is why pop music survives. It's tailored to fit the
lifestyles of specific audiences, rather than a "universal" one.
John Smyth
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:14:44 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor wrote:
>One of our two classical radio stations here has lately begun playing
>quite a bit of movie music. ... I mustadmit, with just a *smidgeon of
>shame*, that some of it gives me pleasure.
Why, Denis? I have it written in my Will that all my friends will leave
the Church after my funeral, to "Lefebre Weli's "Sortie", and my headstone
will read- because I mean it and it has been so much a part of my life,
"Thank You for the Music"-ABBA. If you enjoy it that's fine. I'm still
waiting for the BBC to deliver the music from "Band of Brothers" Someone
wrote in the Radio Times-the BBC magazine with all TV and their Radio
Programmes in,- that he couldn't get it out of his mind. It is- I can
only say, beautiful, poignant without being "Soppy"! There's a nice
English word-I think. Cheers,
Doris<><
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:39:57 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz wrote:
>Denis Fodor, replying to Satoshi's listing of his favorite atonal "tunes":
>
>>... The Second Vienna School has never been broadly popular with attenders,
>>and certainly not in Vienna itself. The stuff just doesn't sound right
>to 'em. >Period.
>
>But what do we make of this? Based on my own concert experience, I'd hazard
>the guess that they probably would react the same way to Nielsen, Bartok,
>and Copland.
Well, I can't speak for Cajun country, and I certainly can't speak for
Vienna, but I don't see much resistance at all to the programming of music
by these composers in places I've lived such as L.A., Chicago, D.C., San
Francisco, and most recently in semi-rural wine country. I'm not a big
concertgoer, but I've attended concerts featuring works by two of these
three fairly recently, and the house was packed.
It's not that I don't see your point, but *any* work that's not
extremely popular is going to run the risk of some audience resistance,
by definition. This is natural and a good thing, I think. It keeps the
"great" works in performance (though it also has undesirable side affects).
I attended a Tennstedt performance of Mahler's 1st Symphony with the
Chicago Symphony a few years back, at least that was the focus of my
attention. The first part of the program featured a clarinet concerto and
shorter work, both well known. Mahler was to be the second half, after
intermission. The hall was full, but at intermission quite a few people
left - maybe 20% of the audience. Now some of this is likely people with
dinner reservations and such, but a few comments I overheard indicated
that some were leaving because they were bored by Mahler. Note the term
"bored", which is what I hear often from classical music lovers who don't
connect with Mahler. In a more recent concert locally, when it was
announced that the next concert would be Bruckner symphony, I heard many
similar comments on the way out. The most common was that it's just too
long. Proving that short attention spans are everywhere, I suppose.
I tend to think this is a completely different from the objections you
might get if announced you were programming Stockhausen or, say, Galina
Ustvolskaya. The comments would be quite different, and even that 80%
that who would stay for Mahler (or Nielsen, Copland, etc.) would dwindle to
a tiny fraction. I see this as being a fundamentally different objection,
as Denis eloquently notes, "The stuff just doesn't sound right to 'em.
Period." And it hasn't for generation after generation of serious musicians
and classical music lovers.
What does all that mean? I'm not entirely sure. I think there's some human
nature happening here, and that often gets in the way of our more refined
selves.:-)
For instance, it simple human nature to classify music into periods or
styles. In the 20th century, we've had such a diverse, and often divergent
set of styles, and anti-styles, schools, and individuals, that it's
horribly confusing. For someone perhaps a bit less ferociously devoted to
music as many of us on the list are, expanding their listening into the
20th century can be much more daunting than any other period, and just
because of this the 20th century gets a bad name. It's the turd in the
punchbowl syndrome at play. It doesn't take very many bad experiences to
make the entire thing distasteful. The analogy is flawed at the core - a
bad, ugly modern piece does not intrinsically affect any other piece of
music. But it does affect our perception of the whole, and there the
analogy holds. And the tired ol' "90% of everything is crap" argument,
aside from being a non sequitur, just doesn't seem to be applied in the
same way in each instance. If someone hears a third rate symphony from the
18th century, the effect just isn't the same as hearing a crash-and-bang
non-tonal work. Not even close. Why is this? I don't pretend to know
(though I have a partial theory, see below). Should it be? No, it means
we risk missing so much good music. But is it true? As far as I can tell,
yes. And we won't get very far until we at least recognize the reality of
the situation, even though we might not be able to explain it fully.
>As I say, I put up with lots of stuff I really wouldn't bother leaving the
>house for, just to hear *occasionally* something I don't already have in
>my CD collection.
And it's trilling when you find something new like that, isn't it. But
we're weird; we're out of the ordinary, and we also need to recognize that
fact. We have an interest in music that's quite unusual. Most people -
including most classical music lovers - just don't have the time, or
whatever, to devote to this pursuit. I've meet many orchestral players,
for example, who don't have anywhere near the interest in music we have.
They are professional, know their instruments, know and love the music they
are playing, but often have nothing like the knowledge of music history,
repertoire, performance practice, abiding curiosity, etc. that the people
on this list demonstrate. This is not a criticism - far from it, we all
have diverse obligations and variable time to devote to those interests.
It's clear thought that music means something different to me, than it does
to so many others. It's that specialness that I see tying the people on
this list together. We may not share tastes in performances, or affinity
for the same styles of music, but we have a deep passion for music that
goes beyond our own immediate gratification that is uncommon.
Why is it then, if this uncommon commonality really does closely bind our
on-line community together, that we have so much trouble communicating at
times? I think it's at least due in part because music is directly wired
into the brain, and provides a conduit to our mind that is relatively
uncluttered by external abstractions. That's what makes music so different
from other art. Some of our brains are wired to respond more powerfully to
this kind of stimulus than others, which may explain why some people just
don't have much interest. The key is that we respond powerfully, and do so
on a very basic level. It does make me wonder what might happen if someone
comes up with an art form that stimulates our olfactory sense, a sense even
more directly wired to our brains that hearing. There could be
bloodshed.:-)
Dave
[log in to unmask]
http://www.classical.net/
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:24:01 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Walter Meyer:
>>Perhaps some will, in disagreement w/ my opinion, claim that today's
>>popular music is not very different from the songs from the musicals of
>>Rogers, Kern, Porter, Berlin, or the songs not necessarily
>identified with
>>musicals, like Stardust, The White Cliffs of Dover, or Two Sleepy People.
Actually, I agree with you. Pop music today *is* different from that from
roughly 1910-1950. For one thing, it is in general far more folk-based and
blues-based. Harold Arlen's "Shining Hour" is a beautiful ballad, but it's
not the same kind of ballad as "Barbara Allen" or "Spanish Harlem."
John Smyth replies to Walter:
>It's an old argument, but I believe that as we increasingly delegate our
>creative activity to a select few, whether Pollini or Poison, we decrease
>our chances at following (appreciating) any musical argument beyond the
>formulaic. Creating certainly gives a person a better chance at following
>a "rigorous" musical argument, and yes, I believe the pop music of
>yesterday can be more rigorously constructed than the pop music of our
>time.
Well, I don't know what your time is. I do know that Leiber and Stoller,
Lennon and McCartney, and Bacharach have written hits as "rigorous" as Cole
Porter. Besides, I'm not sure it's all that necessary to construct a
rigorous musical argument in a song. Indeed, I'm not sure one has the scope
to do it in a strophic song.
>Beyond musical rigor, I believe that pop music is popular because its
>creators make sure it's subject matter and sound is reconcilable with the
>lifestyles and comportment of the audience it's meant for.
But lifestyle etc. is a fairly short-lived phenomenon. We don't, for
example, knowingly return to the songs of Ernest Brama, for example. The
Twenties and Thirties are long gone, yet some of those songs still live, as
do some rock songs. Granted, there's a lot of junk, but there's always a
lot of junk.
>>...today's popular music has greater acceptance among listeners
>to popular
>>music...
>
>Are they really *listening*--out of time and out of place like we do?
Who knows? I'm not sure *I'm* really listening to anything -- pop or
classical.
>And who are these people? A radio consultant friend of mine calls Top
>40 stations--Heeeere I aaaaam with oooopen aaarms--"chick channels." That
>leave the males who listen to Jazz, 70's Rock, Rap, Maudlin college station
>white guy music, and Classical. (There was an interesting article on Jazz
>and masculinity in the NYTimes--last Sunday was it?)
Well, those aren't people, but marketing categories. I've no doubt
of their effectiveness, just as I'm reasonably certain every successful
television show, at some level, deserves its success. But to think of
this audience as unremittingly homogeneous seems to me a critical error.
One of the brightest people I ever met was a huge fan of "The Beverly
Hillbillies," although he saw things in it certainly I (and probably even
the show's writers) did not.
>You might look at books regarding how to write a pop song. They're a
>goldmine regarding what the public wants and how to give it to them: Are
>you writing for males? Females? Age? No poetry, nothing shorter than 2'30"
>nor longer than 4', no mixed meter, a clear hook--repeated as much as
>possible; this is why pop music survives. It's tailored to fit the
>lifestyles of specific audiences, rather than a "universal" one.
Almost all of these "rules" have been transgressed by hits. Indeed, most
of Bacharach's output seems to be in mixed meters. Billy Joel, Elton John,
Lennon-McCartney, Joni Mitchell all have songs in mixed meters. Sometimes
they have songs longer than four minutes. And if "She's Leaving Home"
isn't poetry, I want to know the reason why.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:58:57 -0500
From: Chris Younghoon Kim <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Quartet Concert in Ann Arbor's Kerrytown Concert House
Local contemporary ensemble Brave New Works presents an evening of quartet
music on Saturday, February 9th at 8:00 p.m. at Kerrytown Concert House in
Ann Arbor. The fourth in its 'Numbers Up' series, this concert kicks-off
with the World Premiere of Tom Schnauber's Finds for String Quartet, a
three-movement programmatic work about a musicologist and the pursuit of a
fleeting tune he encounters while hiking in the woods. Next on the program
is a set of character pieces by English twelve-tone and serialist composer
Humphrey Searle. Fascinated by cats and unusual instrumental ensembles,
Searle takes both of these delights in true form in his Two Practical Cats,
a setting of TS Eliot's 'Macavity: The Mystery Cat' and 'Growltiger's Last
Stand' written for narrator, flute, cello and guitar. The second half
of the concert takes a sober, yet poignant turn with Olivier Messiaen's
evocative Quartet for the End of >Time for violin, clarinet, cello and
piano. Written in 1940 while Messiaen was interned in a German prison
camp, the Quartet was intended not to refer to his own captivity, but to
be a kind of musical extension of the Biblical account of the Apocalypse,
and to present the concept of the end of Time as the end of the past and
future and the beginning of eternity.
Performers on this concert include violinists Maria Sampen, Steve Miahky,
and Alejandra Urrutia, violist Tim Christie, cellists Andrea Yun and Katri
Ervamaa, flutist Emily Perryman, clarinetist Deborah Chodacki, guitarist
Matthew Ardizzone, pianist Winston Choi, and narrator Jennifer Goltz.
Founded in 1997 by Christopher Froh, Chris Younghoon Kim and Eli Shapiro,
Brave New Works is an Ann Arbor-based performing organization dedicated to
the work of composers across the entire aesthetic spectrum. Their mission
is to foster new music through creation and performance by working with and
on behalf of contemporary composers. Brave New Works also seeks to expand
the audience for new music through performances, workshops and
collaborations with the arts.
Kerrytown Concert House is located at 415 North Fourth Avenue in Ann Arbor,
Michigan. More information about this concert can be found online at
<http://www.kerrytownconcerhouse.org/>www.kerrytownconcerhouse.org.
Tickets $10-25 ($5 students). Reservations suggested: 769-2999.
Contact: Emily Perryman, Publicity Coordinator
Brave New Works
<http://www.bravenewworks.org/>www.bravenewworks.org
[log in to unmask]
734-395-2696
Chris Younghoon Kim
Artistic Director, Brave New Works
http://www.bravenewworks.org
Interim orchestra Director, Tufts University
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:16:06 EST
From: Andreas Benend <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: A. Scarlatti's Toccata
Dear members of the Classical mailing list, for quite a time I have
been desperately trying to find some piano score by Alessandro Scarlatti.
I once read about a Toccata in d minor, which are variations on the La
follia" theme (the theme on which Corelli and Rachmaninow wrote
variations).
I have not been sucessful in getting this score here in Germany. Is there
anyone who can name me a publishing firm or give me a number in some kind
of Scarlatti work catalogue or so, to make it possible for me to find these
notes?
Many thanks in advance!
Andreas Benend
[Though it could have a better search engine, and the listings are often
too terse, SheetMusicPlus (linked from Classcial Net) offers a very
large selection. In this case, searching on Scarlatti and Toccata
turns up:
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_detail.html?sku=BR.EB-6598
The score from Breitkopf and Haertel is for organ, so perhaps that's
why you had trouble finding it in the past. I'm not sure how involved
a transcription to piano this might be. -Dave]
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:02:11 -0800
From: John Smyth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
I write:
>>It's an old argument, but I believe that as we increasingly delegate our
>>creative activity to a select few, whether Pollini or Poison, we decrease
>>our chances at following (appreciating) any musical argument beyond the
>>formulaic. Creating certainly gives a person a better chance at following
>>a "rigorous" musical argument, and yes, I believe the pop music of
>>yesterday can be more rigorously constructed than the pop music of our
>>time.
Steve responds:
>Well, I don't know what your time is. I do know that Leiber and Stoller,
>Lennon and McCartney, and Bacharach ....
Who?:) I hope you get my point--None of my 7th-Graders would classify this
music as pop. I've never heard of Leiber and Stoller--so is it pop to me?
(I was hoping that it would be understood that I was speaking generally.)
>The Twenties and Thirties are long gone, yet some of those songs still
>live, as do some rock songs.
Of course some it transcends time and place. But let's face it, the new
generation won't consider it "pop." Just like the "little night music"
that Mozart wrote once upon a time is hardly considered as such anymore.
>Besides, I'm not sure it's all that necessary to construct a rigorous
>musical argument in a song. Indeed, I'm not sure one has the scope to
>do it in a strophic song.
Understood.
I'm saying that 1) the *environment* that pop music is created for* isn't
favorably disposed towards subtlety and rigor: the office, the store, the
car, the dance floor, a drive by shooting..., and 2) I'm not saying rigor
is necessary for a song to be good; but a culture that places an emphasis
on creation gives its citizens a better chance of following more rigorous
music, whether construction or length.
*I've read that one particular representative for a pop music publisher
will review audition tapes in his car while driving. Have you ever tried
to listen to CM in your car? I can't, except for Baroque and Classical--its
incidental music that has much in common with pop.
I write:
>>And who are these people? A radio consultant friend of mine calls Top
>>40 stations--Heeeere I aaaaam with oooopen aaarms--"chick channels." That
>>leave the males who listen to Jazz, 70's Rock, Rap, Maudlin college station
>>white guy music, and Classical. (There was an interesting article on Jazz
>>and masculinity in the NYTimes--last Sunday was it?)
Steve writes:
>...to think of this audience as unremittingly homogeneous seems to me a
>critical error.
I'm actually claiming that (pop) audiences are unremittingly
*heterogeneous* because they want to be, and sometimes because they *have*
to be.
>I'm not sure *I'm* really listening to anything -- pop or classical.
Now, now--let's not be captious--(sorry, practicing for GRE)--pop music can
stand the vacuum cleaner running, talking, clapping, car noise, sex...it's
one component of a larger ritual. Students would try to talk over the
sounds of CM during listening sessions at school not because they were
rude, but because pop music allows it. You're really listening.
John Smyth
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:58:32 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Support
Dave Lampson writes:
>Why is it then, if this uncommon commonality really does closely bind
>our on-line community together, that we have so much trouble communicating
>at times?
I think that some of it has to do with the 'fear factor' which does have
some basis in reality. Some are fearful that 'atonal' music will dominate
the scene and reduce the availability of tonal music. Some are fearful
that the HIP movement will take over early, baroque, and even classcial-era
music. Are these fears irrational? Perhaps, but none of us really has any
significant influence on the availablity of the music we want. This
powerless feeling can lead to strong hostility.
Although I don't possess the above fears, I have a few of my own:
Crossover - Movie Music - Music Theatre - Don Vroon
Although I would like all individuals to have immediate access to the
music they love, my main concern is the availability of the music that I
want. Anything which even remotely could affect that availability in a
negative fashion results in hostile feelings on my part.
Concerning Don Vroon, if he had his way there wouldn't be any period
instrument concerts or recordings. I do assume Vroon could not effect
these results, but then again.... I don't know how much or little impact
this stubborn and dedicated man might have.
Of course, another factor leading to less than friendly postings is
that each of us only has the written word to work with. There's no body
language, nothing of a visual nature. When I am communcating with someone
in person, the visual feedback is more significant than the verbal.
Don Satz
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:10:59 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>I realize Denis is in a better position than I am (the Munich Phil vs.
>the Louisiana Phil), but not everybody lives in Munich or better. I
>look at audiences in my city and see very few young people. Almost no
>teenagers, for example. By catering to alte Kocher like me, programming
>committees just may be building in their own obsolescence
Na ja, Munich's not like livin' next to Julia Roberts. Agreed. But apart
from our several symphony, opera, and operetta orchestras we also have two
conservatories. My wife and I attend performances at one of these quite
frequently. The larger part of the audience there is students and I have
observed that they usually show greater enthusiasm--applause, cheering,
stomping -- for the stuff of the classical canon, rather than the
avant-garde.
At our rather conservative opera here, the younger crowd dominates the
peanut gallery, and on every performance night lines up at the box office
for cut-rate seats ranging from six to seven dollars in price. Sell-out
every time. They seem to like the kind of opera that Grossvater also
liked.
At rehearsals of the Philharmonic, youngsters are very much in evidence,
though oldsters outnumber them. This could be because rehearsals
often take place at hours of the day when the gainfully-employed class
(shrinking), and some of the studying class (dumbing down), is prevented
from attending. Around here, I'd say, about as many of the young attend
classical music performances as I remember attending 50, 40, 30, 20, 10
years ago.
Yes, and resentment of avant-garde stuff that's craftily shoehorned into
programs, has run about the same, too. (But apparently it's not been
minatory enough, to halt the practice.)
Denis Fodor
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:11:00 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Doris Howe is puzzled about Denis Fodor expressing "a smidgeon of shame"
for beginning to like movie music:
>Why, Denis? I have it written in my Will that all my friends will
>leave the Church after my funeral, to "Lefebre Weli's "Sortie", and my
>headstonewill read- because I mean it and it has been so much a part of
>my life, "Thank You for the Music"-ABBA.
A smidgen ashamed I remain, and mortified at having misspelled it as
"smidgeon". I guess it's because movie music tends to be dismissed by the
illuminati as, well, -__so commercial, my dear__! And no doubt it is just
that--perhaps thereby keeping it honest, instead of academically glitzy.
As for ABBA, my kids used to play 'em darn near eternally. Learned to like
them, but as something distinctly different from classical; movie music
isn't that distinctly different, IMHO.
Denis Fodor
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:11:01 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>writes, pondering the.clash of tastes in
classical music:
>...commonality really does closely bind ouR on-line community together,
>that we have so much trouble communicating at times? I think it's at
>least due in part because music is directly wired into the brain....
Yep. Music is a form of communication quite seperate, and quite
sovereign:; it is not beholden to the rules, the syntax, of other
communicating forms such as linguistics, or mathematics. Any attempt
to assimilate music to other forms can make for a problem. There have
been attempts ever since Pythagoras to yoke mathematics with music.
Result: folks just don't naturally take to mathematical music. There's
opera, of course, which mates spoken drama with music, and does so rather
successfully. But people have been blending music with ritual, as in
religious practice, forever and a day. The combination has become
accepted. Dance combined with music, too-- because people have been
dancing to music--or music has inspired dancing-- since before history
emerged from the antecedent fog. That being so, it shouldn't be treated
as a disaster that listeners are conditioned to expectations which a lot
of avant-garde stuff deliberately snubs or sneers at.
Et voila.
Denis Fodor
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:58:24 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
John Smyth responds to Steve Schwartz:
>>Well, I don't know what your time is. I do know that Leiber and Stoller,
>>Lennon and McCartney, and Bacharach ....
>
>Who?:) I hope you get my point--None of my 7th-Graders would classify this
>music as pop.
Is that just because they don't know the names, or because they know the
music and would call it something else. I strongly suspect the former.
If you played a Beatles song for them, or a Bacharach tune, they would
recognize it as pop to the extent it wouldn't be music that they know to
classify elsewhere. How many styles of music can your 7th graders name
anyway, much less correctly identify the music if they heard it? No, I'm
not sure I get your point. I hope it isn't that this music shouldn't be
considered pop because a 13 year old says so.
>I've never heard of Leiber and Stoller--so is it pop to me?
I'll bet you'd recognize one or more of the tunes.
>But let's face it, the new generation won't consider it "pop."
You're argument is perhaps too invested in the word "pop", and as such
misses the forest for the trees. If you called it "golden oldies" or "hits
from the past" - both just descriptive euphemisms for popular music - would
they buy into it? If so, then this seems to be at odds with your idea.
In general, I think when we say "pop" what we are really referring to here
is "non-classical" music that is popular with some significant portion of
the population. This includes everything from the old standards to modern
rock, R&B, country, rap, hip hop, adult contemporary, etc.
>... pop music can stand the vacuum cleaner running, talking, clapping, car
>noise, sex...it's one component of a larger ritual. Students would try to
>talk over the sounds of CM during listening sessions at school not because
>they were rude, but because pop music allows it.
Some classical music can also stand vacuum cleaner running, talking,
clapping, car noise, sex, every bit as well as pop music. Much pop music
might also allow less attention to listening, but this says nothing about
what careful listening reveals in some pop music. Music has many uses, and
since the purpose of much popular music is dance-oriented, you won't find
a lot of deep listening opportunities there, and you shouldn't expect it.
But pop music is so much more than the latest boy band or ghetto-fabulous
gangsta rapper.
I don't speak in the abstract. I love this music. What are generally
considered "popular" artists make up a huge part of my listening, and
I find some alternative rock these days to be very much worth my time.
Some of these artists I like are very big, but I don't let that prejudice
me.
Dave
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:06:40 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Denis Fodor wrote:
>Yep. Music is a form of communication quite seperate, and quite
>sovereign:; it is not beholden to the rules, the syntax, of other
>communicating forms such as linguistics, or mathematics. Any attempt
>to assimilate music to other forms can make for a problem. There have
>been attempts ever since Pythagoras to yoke mathematics with music.
>Result: folks just don't naturally take to mathematical music. ...
I have to say I disagree a little here. Music is mathematical at its
core, but this does not mean that math is automatically music. From my
experience, folks do not take to music that is only mathematical. It
really doesn't take all that much work or creativity to come up with an
innovative algorithm that results in structured sound. But, people need
an aesthetic hook too.
Dave
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:12:04 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mahler Choice - Hampson or DeYoung
Just about everything is unusual about the upcoming SF Symphony "tour" -
four concerts, two each in Carnegie Hall and in Hill Auditorium, Ann Arbor.
Michelle DeYoung and Thomas Hampson alternate in "Das Lied" and look at the
other program: Berlioz, Ives, and traditional hymns! Welcome to MTT
programming.
Wednesday, February 13 - 8:00 p.m. New York City - Carnegie Hall
Friday, February 15 - 8:00 p.m. Ann Arbor, MI
Michael Tilson Thomas, conductor
Michael Schade, tenor
Thomas Hampson, baritone
[Michelle DeYoung, mezzo-soprano, on Feb. 15]
San Francisco Symphony
Schoenberg / Theme and Variations, Opus 43b
Schoenberg / Five Pieces for Orchestra, Opus 16 (1909 original version)
Mahler / Das Lied von der Erde
Thursday, February 14 - 8:00 p.m. New York City - Carnegie Hall
Saturday, February 16 - 8:00 p.m. Ann Arbor, MI
Michael Tilson Thomas, conductor
Robin Sutherland, piano
Charles Rus, organ
San Francisco Symphony
Voices of Ascension
Berlioz / Roman Carnival Overture, Opus 9
Berlioz / Introduction to Romeo et Juliette, Opus 17
Berlioz / Love Scene from Romeo et Juliette, Opus 17
Berlioz / Romeo Alone - Festival at the Capulets from Romeo et Juliette,
Opus 17
Traditional / "Sweet By and By"
John Sweney / "Beulah Land"
Traditional / "Ye Christian Heralds"
Traditional / "Jesus, Lover of My Soul"
Traditional / "From Greenland's Icy Mountains"
Traditional / "Nearer My God to Thee"
Ives / Symphony No. 4
Janos Gereben/SF
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:49:49 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peter Taussig Records Bach's Art of Fugue
[log in to unmask] on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 09:46:00AM -0500
Len Fehskens ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>William Copper writes:
>
>>As someone who uses midi regularly, but still agrees with those who
>>belittle it, my analogy is that midi is the Sculpey of music -- easy
>>to use, fast setting, bakeable(?) -- but not the same as real clay.
>
>I think you are mistakenly characterizing the medium by how it is most
>commonly used, rather than by what it is capable of in the hands of those
>willing to take the requisite time and effort.
True, but MIDI has limitations, due to the fact that the original standard
was created at a time when 8-bit computing was the norm in embedded
devices.
Consequently each parameter (volume, attack, decay etc) has at most 256
different possible values.
A few years ago I interviwed a couple of composers of electronic music -
damned if I can recall their names though - and they informed me that this
was too small a number, that real musicians were capable - and they as
composers needed - more than 256 different shades for each parameter.
It reminds me of Artur Schnabel's reply when he was being asked to make
piano rolls by - was it Duo Arte? On being informed that their system could
reproduce "16 different degrees of touch!" he said "What a pity! You see,
I have seventeen."
Deryk Barker
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:34:45 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Naxos February Releases
Naxos:
FRESCOBALDI: Harpsichord Works
SCHUBERT: European Poets Vol. 1
J.S. BACH: Guitar transcriptions
CUI: 25 Preludes, Op.64
RUBINSTEIN: Symphony No. 3; Eroica Fantasia
HAYDN:Symphonies Nos. 70, 71 & 73
TVEITT: A Hundred Hardanger Tunes; Suites No. 2 and 5
WALTON: The Twelve; Coronation Te Deum; Missa Brevis; Magnificat & Nunc
Dimittis
DUSSEK: Three Sinfonias
MOZART: Wind Serenades
BERG: Wozzeck
Naxos American Classics:
Gloria COATES: String Quartets Nos. 1, 5 & 6
COPLAND: Symphony No.3, Billy The Kid
Marco Polo:
CIMAROSA: Overtures Vol. 1
Naxos Historical:
BRAHMS: Symphony No. 3; Academic Festival Overture; Tragic Overture
(Mengelberg)
More Caruso
TCHAIKOVSKY/WIENIAWSKI: Violin Concertos (Elman)
ELGAR/DELIUS: Violin Concertos (Sammons)
Naxos Jazz Legends
DUKE ELLINGTON: Reminiscing in Tempo
MILES DAVIS: Vol. 1
Naxos Audio Books include:
MARCEL PROUST: Remembrance of Things Past
(presumably not complete!)
Richard Pennycuick
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Richard Pennycuick
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:13:15 -0800
From: John Smyth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Dave responds to me responding to Steve Schwartz:
>>>Well, I don't know what your time is. I do know that Leiber and Stoller,
>>>Lennon and McCartney, and Bacharach ....
>>
>>Who?:) I hope you get my point--None of my 7th-Graders would classify this
>>music as pop.
>
>Is that just because they don't know the names, or because they know the
>music and would call it something else. I strongly suspect the former.
>If you played a Beatles song for them, or a Bacharach tune, they would
>recognize it as pop to the extent it wouldn't be music that they know to
>classify elsewhere.
I'm saying that they wouldn't classify it as "popular" because it's not
reconcilable with their culture, age or gender roles--they would see the
music as unfashionable, even if it is recognizable. They would recognize
Beethoven's Fifth and still not want to call it their own.
>You're argument is perhaps too invested in the word "pop", and as such
>misses the forest for the trees. If you called it "golden oldies" or "hits
>from the past" - both just descriptive euphemisms for popular music - would
>they buy into it? If so, then this seems to be at odds with your idea.
No, for my former reason. This is why I think it's not a good idea to
define "pop" as recognizable, or "something simpler than art music." To me
pop music is 1) music written to be successful in a multitude of listening
environments--pragmatism is put before relative musical idealism; and 2)
the music's meaning* self-consciously respects, (or mocks), the cultural
limits of whoever it is written for.
Once a listener 1)bends his listening environment to suit the needs of the
music, and 2) steps out of his culture, generation, or gender comportment
to identify with it; then the music becomes something other than "pop."
(*I realize music carries no meaning, but I don't think we can overlook
the reality that meaning in music is helplessly appropriated through
association anyway.)
What do I mean by #2? When I was a teenager, I loved symphonic music.
I was uneasy with opera, not because the musical argument was more
"difficult," but because the vocal (physical) histrionics made me
uneasy. I didn't understand why then, but I do now. We're taught to be
stoic--outward displays of emotion reveal vulnerability that can be used
against a person in a competitive free-market society; and bureaucracies,
(the standard way we run our businesses and gov'ts, as opposed to
family-run), collapse quickly if comprised of emotionally volatile workers.
For me to fully enjoy Brunnhilde or Tosca, it works best when I (don't
laugh) *become* these characters while I'm listening--and sing along with
my mind's vocal chords. Needless to say, I have to willingly step out
of culture, generation, and gender to do it. Quite a jump. Not so years
ago when, as Barbara Tuchman tells us, Kaiser William II, Emperor of
Germany and hopefully all of Europe, could kiss his general rapturously,
(non-sexually), upon the fall of Leige. Or could skip around the room in
an hysterical tirade. No agenda here, I'm just trying to point out that
it's much easier to enjoy emotional excess in opera if a good portion of
your culture acts the same way, and as a consequence, opera could exist as
"pop" entertainment.
This, to me, is what separates popular music from art music. Not its
length, not its rigor; but its reconcilability with (or mocking of*),
the cultural/gender/generational mores of the moment.
*Unlike "becoming" Brunnhilde, one can enjoy the subversiveness of,
say, Boy George's androgyny without stepping out of one's own proper
comportment.
John Smyth
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:32:58 -0700
From: Gene Halaburt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Kyung Wha Chung Edition on Decca
I am considering ordering the subject CD set and wondered if any members
who have the set (or individual releases) might share their impressions.
The 10 CD set (Decca 460016) consists of:
Prokofiev/Stravinsky
Bartok 1 & 2
Tchaikovsky/Sibelius
Bruch 1 + Scottish Fantasia
Franck/Debussy/Chausson
Lalo/Ravel/Vieuxtemps
Saint-Saens/Vieuxtemps/Chausson (Poeme)
Bach: Partita No.2 & Sonata No.3 w/Berg: Concerto (Solti)
Beethoven: VC VPO/Kondrashin w/Walton: VC LSO/Previn
Mendelssohn: VC OSM/Dutoit w/Elgar: VC LPO/Solti
The last three discs apparently are now only available in the boxed set.
TIA.
Gene Halaburt
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:12:24 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sir Roger Jousts With Mortality
Here we are, in Davies Hall, and the program for the first half of
tonight's San Francisco Symphony program says: "Liszt, `Totentanz',"
full stop. How can that be? A 14-minute program before the second half
and Liszt's "A Faust Symphony"? One sits and wonders as Roger Norrington
enters to conduct the orchestra.
Instead of conducting, however, he takes a microphone and says hello:
"It's great to be back." Loud, long, heartfelt applause. How come?
There is a special affection for Norrington here, earned through14 years
of exceptional performances, including unique, memorable Beethoven and
Mozart festivals. When he was struck by illness (melanoma AND a malignant
brain tumor, both), he "played through" at times, had a few cancellations,
and every time he left, we didn't know when - or if - he would return. So
here he is, in apparent good health, to say "I'm back."
Severe illness, he once told me "makes you appreciate what's important
and what's not, but I don't go crazy with mystical stuff. . . I am still
pretty casual about it all." And so tonight, immediately he turns his
attention to the mundane matter of logistics.
Liszt, he explains to the audience, is difficult to program because he
wrote very long and very short pieces. And so, here's a short piece at
one end, a 70-minute symphony at the other. Both, incidentally, about
mortality or as Norrington puts it "some grim stuff." He is concerned
about the intermission coming too soon for another glass of chardonnay,
he says, so he asked the soloist, Konstantin Lifschitz, to provide an
encore, something in the manner of the evening - Liszt's "Funerailles."
Here's a case of being real "casual" about the matter: an evening of a
dance of death, a funeral march, and an extended treatment of fighting
death through selling one's soul.
And now, vintage Norrington, full of life and good humor, he vamps, fills
time, speaks about the works, recites the Dies Irae in Latin, anything
to make up for the shortness of the first half. Welcome back, wacky Sir
Roger.
What sounded so impressively cavalier when Norrington TALKED about the
subject of Liszt's music didn't quite come across in the performance.
All evening long, especially in the first half, intensity, menace, Liszt's
overblown sense of drama were missing. There was, instead, emphasis on
melody, slow tempi, but not in Norrington's usual "different take" on what
audiences expect, more in a slack, strangely nonchalant manner.
Lifschitz, making his San Francisco debut, is YAHYPFTE, no doubt about
that. Yes, yet another hot young pianist from the East, the 25-year-old
Ukrainian has enormous hands, dazzling technique, the full-bearded look
of a young Tolstoi in a Chekhov short story (sorry, no proper Ukrainian
images spring to mind) - and something missing. However well Lifschitz
plays the piano, one can still hear more of the piano than of the music.
By "Funerailles," however, there was also a great deal of soul, impressive,
convincing delicacy. A young artist on his way.
The Faust symphony is a strange piece, even from the habitually,
professionally bizarre Liszt. The length and structure are similar to
Beethoven's Ninth, but otherwise, it's more like a Strauss symphonic poem,
minus "program music." The 25-minute first movement is a seemingly endless
repetition of the same theme and short development, "very Liszt," with the
sound of "Les Preludes" permeating it. The equally long second movement is
something else - an excellent work of great lyric beauty, a kind of musical
synthesis of past, present and future, especially Tchaikovsky, Berlioz and
Strauss.
A 15-minute third movement provides a bridge to the very brief (5-minute)
and utterly gorgeous finale carried by the men's chorus (sitting through
the first hour, even as in the Beethoven) and a tenor soloist. John Mark
Ainsley made the best use of a small voice without power or natural
projection; 3,000-seat concert halls are not really for him, although he
did manage. Vance George's chorus was flawless, with a German diction
superior to the last performance of the work I heard. . . in Germany.
Norrington's low-key approach that made "Totentanz" just plain "wrong" (a
subtle Liszt?!), didn't work particularly well here either. Even against
wonderful performances from the principals in every section (and a great
"string-quartet segment" from the first four desks of the first-violin
section), excellent work in the brass and woodwinds, the over-all sound was
again without intensity or even coherence at times, although the second
movement had much to be treasured.
And, again, the important news: he's back!
Janos Gereben/SF
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:26:44 +0100
From: Mats Norrman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fricsay's Kodaly
I have listened to some Ferenec Fricsays recordings of music of Zoltan
Kodaly. The recordings of Galanta Taenze, Maroszeker Taenze, Psalmus
Hungaricus and Hary Janos, were private which I have obtained and I don't
think these have been issued commercially, though there used to be a
recordign of Psalmus Hungaricus on DGG way back.
I think these fine recordings of highly interesting music. Kodaly faced
about the same problems as the contemporary Bartok, and he responded
personal and original to them, though not as radical as Bartok.
Psalmus Hungaricus are profound and mystic in spirit yet powerful in
effect - completely without being based on effectseekery - the dances are
finely crafted and fine also. In Hary Janos, Kodaly actually investigates
new found land, with the boldness of the 18th century adventurer Mungo Park
from Foulshiele-Selkirk, in a resolute and firm response to the problems
the initial argument set up.
Fricsays recordings are as usual with him, very beautiful as successful.
I think it was in this repertoire - as well as in Mozart - he came to
his very best. I tend not to like those few recordings of "heavier"
romanticism I have heard, but I must agree they are taken with much
ambition. A pity he didn't live longer, then I had been very interested
in hearing more. It intriguates me how Mahler would ahve sounded under
his baton for example.
I wonder if any other has comments upon Kodalys music, and if so, I hope
they share!
Mats Norrman
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:37:49 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Stanford Chamber Works for Piano & Strings
Charles Villiers Stanford(1852-1924)
Chamber Works for Piano & Strings
Piano Quartet No. 1 in F major, Opus 15(1879)
Piano Trio No. 1, Opus 35(1889)
ASV 1056
Recorded 1998
Issued 2001
Pirasti Trio
Philip Dukes, Viola(quartet)
TT 58:33
Summary: Delightful Works and Peformances
Born in Dublin, Charles Villiers Stanford grew up in a prosperous home
with a father who was an attorney and musical enthusiast. Charles studied
at Cambridge University and was selected as organist of Trinity College at
the very young age of eighteen. Subsequently, he traveled to Germany where
he studied composition under Carl Reinecke and Friedrich Kiel. Stanford
was also friends with Johannes Brahms.
This connection with Germany and German composers has tended to lead to
a depreciation of Stanford's compositions as nothing more than derivative
Germanic works. To Stanford's credit, it is necessary to understand that
British composers were of little world consequence in the first half of
the 19th century. As an example, there was essentially no British chamber
music to look to as references before Stanford and Hubert Parry began
issuing their chamber works in the late 1800's. Therefore, Stanford had
little choice but to look to Germany or another foreign country to become
familiar with the then current musical styles and trends.
Many British composers coming after Stanford had the advantage of a real
British musical heritage from the late 1800's from which to draw upon.
Stanford alone had Vaughan Williams, Holst, Howells, Bridge, Butterworth,
Moeran, Bliss, and Grainger as students. They simply had benefits not
available to Stanford. Fortunately, recent years have seen a re-evalation
of Stanford's volumious musical output, and there is much to examine.
Stanford wrote seven symphonies, many concertante works, a few chamber
works, ten operas, solo organ music, and a great deal of choral music.
In fact, Stanford is most known for his choral compositions which have
contributed substantially to the Anglican choral tradition which evolved.
I was a little skeptical about an early Stanford chamber work, but the
Piano Quartet is a thoroughly enjoyable creation. I am very impressed
with the first movement Allegro con brio. I can't say that the melodies
are among the best I've ever heard, and the piano part does tend to have a
supporting role. However, the music transcends its limitations for three
reasons. First, the energy conveyed by Stanford is delightfully vivid,
perpetual, and full of the joy of living. Second, the phrases and sections
flow so well; the structure of the movement is expert in every way. Third,
there is excellent diversity and a stunningly tranquil interlude. Overall,
Stanford's portrayl of youthful abundance is one which I expect to return
to often.
The second movement Scherzo doesn't begin as demonstratively as the
first movement, but it soon becomes quite wild as Stanford takes us to
the edge of precipice. Excellent contrast is provided by the mysterious
and soft-spoken trio before the return to exuberance and energy which is
over-flowing. This is another exceptional movement from Stanford where he
again displays an uncanny knack for creating and maintaining a constant
surge of energy and great zest for life.
The tenor of the music naturally changes much in the third movement
Adagio. The basic theme of the first section is quite enhanting and
lovely; however, I find that Stanford, for dramatic effect, goes a little
overboard with sentimentality. In the middle section Allegro, passion
seems to get the best of Stanford as he injects an overly romanticized
energy not found in the previous two movements. Overall, the Adagio has
some lovely and heart-felt themes unfortunately marred by an occasional
exaggeration of expression. The Finale is a rondo of great energy and
enthusiasm which is similar in mood and youthfulness to the first two
movements; the lilting melodies are quite invigorating.
Stanford's Piano Quartet F major is a an excellent piece worthy of a
recorded leagacy and many hours of listening enjoyment. Stanford's
enthusiasm for life is conveyed throughout the work, and I find it
infectious. There is no masterpiece status here, just a highly pleasurable
work I am glad to have met.
The Stanford Piano Trio No. 1 takes us ten years further into Stanford's
musical maturity. Now, the youthful zest for life is not as strong and is
replaced with a more mature attitude with some reflection and nostalgia.
The writing is more compact, genuinely dramatic, and serious. Just as I
like the youthful verve of the Piano Quartet, I have equal affection for
the serious-minded Piano Trio. Some folks have remarked that the Piano
Trio has shades of Brahms. Although I wouldn't argue with that view, the
composer the work most reminds me of is Louis Spohr of a many decades
earlier. Stanford's phrasing and sonorities sound quite similar to those
in Spohr's chamber works with piano.
There is one movement of the Piano Trio which I consider superior to its
corresponding movement from the Piano Quartet - the slow third movement.
In the Piano Trio, there is no saccharine quality in the third movement,
whereas the Piano Quartet's slow third movement goes overboard as I
mentioned earlier. However, both works are a delight.
The young-adult Pirasti Trio gives exceptional performances which
excellently convey the youthful enthusiasm of the Piano Quartet and the
more mature and dramatic reflections of the Piano Trio. The group's
balance and interaction are admirable, resulting in readings which would
be diffcult to improve upon. The recorded sound is exceptionally vivid
and integrated.
Don's Conclusions: Anyone who enjoys 19th century piano chamber music
would likely be quite pleased with the new Stanford disc from ASV. The
music and performances are gems which provide a great listening experience.
In particular, those who have strong affection for the piano chamber works
of Louis Spohr should not hesitate to add this Stanford disc to the
library. Yes, Stanford was derivative, but exceptional music of a
derivative nature needs no excuses.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:18:39 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: A New Technology?
I am not a computer buff, and I found a process yesterday that I'd like
to share with you. Here in Albuquerque, a new Barnes & Noble store opened
up. The store has a process where the customer can place an unopened disc
complete with wrapper on to a shelf, and the disc starts playing. You can
even push a button and listen to the track of your choice.
Obviously, this is a great system which makes all the objections that
stores have to allowing 'sampling' totally irrelevant - no repackaging
and no possibility of hands getting on the disc itself.
Are there any list members familiar with this system? What do you think
of it?
Don Satz
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:46:44 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: A Terrific Trio of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier
Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)
Well Tempered Clavier Book II
Teldec 81238 & 81239 (two 2-cd sets)
Recorded 1989
Glenn Wilson, Harpsichord
Virgin Classics 61711 (4 cd's)
Recorded 189/90
Bob van Asperen, Harpsichord
Disques Pelleas 0103/4 (2 cd's)
Book II only
Recorded 1980
Scott Ross, Harpsichord
My intent was to have both books of the Scott Ross set, but my order for
Book I was cancelled; I'll deal with it at a later date. On the positive
side, I now have the Wilson and van Asperen sets back in my home. I lost
them a few years ago to the CD bandit, only to find that I was the real
bandit. I had given the sets to my son who just happened to mention the
tranfer a a couple of weeks ago. Being a good guy, he burned copies for
me; I can now share the performances with you. Owing to the fact that
these three sets have been available for a number of years, I'll be brief
with my comments.
Listening to Glenn Wilson's set, I am greatly impressed with his
interpretations. To be frank, I can't think of an alternative set on
harpsichord that I like as much. Wilson is always at the service of the
music, and I feel that he has a life-line into Bach's soul. He tends to
be on the quick side, but there is never any loss of emotional depth.
Each prelude and fugue is given its own unique flavor, and the consistency
of illumination Wilson provides amazes me.
The performances from Scott Ross are also among the best. He's quick,
energetic, fresh, and poetic. Every prelude and fugue receives an
outstanding reading. Like Wilson, Ross is always immersed in the music
with an exceptional display of pacing and dynamics. They differ in that
Wilson covers a wider range of emotional breadth, while Ross concentrates
on the joy of a fantastic musical discovery.
van Asperen isn't as vibrant, youthful, or quick as Ross and Wilson. He
gives an exceptional performance steeped in maturity and insight. He is
particularly impressive in the slower and more reflective music with a
world-weariness that really gets to me.
Don's Conclusions: Three great sets with Wilson's being the best
harpsichord version I know. They join Richter, Gould, Tureck, Gulda,
Leonhardt, Gilbert, and Moroney at the top the mountain. And you don't
want to miss the insights provided by Fischer, Landowska, Aldwell, Schiff,
and a few others. All in all, there's a wealth of wonderful WTK sets
available. Pick up a few; if only two, go for the Tureck and Wilson sets.
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:02:11 -0800
From: Hector Aguilar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conscientious Customer Service
Mitch Friedfeld <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Walter wrote:
>>
>>Today, 1/9, I received two replacement CDs in the mail, no prior questions
>>asked. They're fine.
>
>Second. They sent me two disc 4's and no disc 1 from the Fuertwangler La
>Scala Ring. A replacement disc was in my mailbox just days after our
>E-mail exchange.
It is wonderful to hear that they are so responsive; but I quit buying
their CDs because I became regularly disappointed with the sound quality
of their transfers of historical performances,which I have found tend to
have a metallic quality-- I can't describe it any better than that. My
Furtwangler performances of Beethoven (Symphonies #1 and #6, on different
discs)aren't too bad, but one of my last purchases was Ginette Neveu doing
Beethoven's violin concerto, and in this disc the metallic quality I
complain about is so bad I hardly ever listen to this extremely fine
performance. In fact, I almost sold the disc to a friend as soon as I
bought it (a friend who wasn't deterred by the sound like I was).
Are there people out there who know what I'm referring to? Just to add
perspective, I'd like to say that as a historical records hobbyist I've
bought lots of Pearl CDs and have rarely if ever been disappointed. Teldec
also could be excellent, at times. EMI I'd consider a small step down, but
reasonably good and consistent. I guess I'd just like to know if I'm alone
in thinking that the quality of the Music&Arts CDs is generally not what
it could be, or if this problem has been rectified since my last purchase
about 3 years ago. If anyone could convince me that they have improved,
perhaps by switching to better transfer techniques, then I would love to
start buying from them again.
Hector Aguilar
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:59:55 -0700
From: Melanie Jo Watts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Canadian Web-Based Music Sources
Hi, Do any of the Canadians on this list know of any places to buy
Classical music on the web? What I want is a site were stuff is listed
and sold in Canadian dollars. Thanks
Melanie
[log in to unmask]
http://www.pris.bc.ca/mjw
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 02:48:42 +0800
From: Tim Mahon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jan Ladislav Dussek and Napoleon
Some help, please? I'm working on a bio and worklist for Jan Ladislav
Dussek (1760-1812) and have a query regarding a surprising assertion.
All the sources I have consulted, incl the last two Groves, Baker's and a
host of other dictionaries and liner notes, make much of his last position
as Music Master to Talleyrand, Napoleon's Foreign Minister. However, my
Larousse goes further and asserts - when talking about French musical
development at the beginning of the nineteenth century - that "Napoleon's
official pianist was the Czech, Johann Ladislaus Dussek."
I can accept that his position as pianist, teacher and composer in
residence for Talleyrand would have brought him into regular contact with
the top echelons of Parisian society, including Le Petit Tondu himself.
Indeed, there is some evidence, apparently, that he may have met the then
General Bonaparte during an extended visit to Paris 1786-9, from which he
fled as the Revolution took hold. However, since the Larousse is the only
source I have found so far for the "official pianist" sobriquet, I would
like to find any other evidence extant. Does anybody out there have a view
or any inside info they're willing to share?
Tim Mahon
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 20:40:04 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elena Kuschnerova's Bach
Johann Sebastian Bach(1685-1750)
Selected Keyboard Works
Italian Concerto in F major--- BWV 971
French Suite No. 2 in C minor- BWV 813
Toccata in E minor------------ BWV 914
Partita No. 6 in E minor------ BWV 830
Orfeo 547011
Recorded 2000
Issued---2001
Elena Kuschnerova, Piano
TT 70:15
Elena Kuschnerova was born and raised in Moscow. Her mother, a concert
pianist, gave her music lessons from the age of four. Elena made her first
performance with orchestra at the age of nine and recorded Bach's Keyboard
Concerto in F minor for Radio Moscow with the conductor Emin Khachaturian.
Her friendship with the composer Alexander Lokshin was greatly beneficial
to her musical development, and Lokshin even composed a set of variations
for her.
Since 1992, Kuschnerova has lived in Germany with her husband and daughter.
She has two recordings of recent vintage: a 'piano reduction' disc of
Prokofiev's ballet music and a disc of early piano works of Scriabin.
Kuschnerova considers Bach her "elixir of life", and she has played
Bach's music since childhood. Concerning reviews of her Bach disc, the
opinions have been mixed. The Fanfare reviewer felt that Kuschnerova's
interpretations are exceptional with a wonderful blend of rigor and
inspiration, while the American Record Guide review was complimentary but
considered her treatment of Bach's slower music too earth-bound and not
sufficiently lyrical. On the internet, the Classics Today website had
Kuschnerova pegged as "proficient" and not providing much variety of
articulation or dynamics.
My take on Kuschnerova revolves around her 'touch' which definitely affects
the dynamics. The touch doesn't change much and accounts for why I often
lost interest about half-way through each movement. That was usually the
best time to move on to the next track. If I was rating first-halves of
tracks, I'd likely call Kuschnerova's performances worthy ones. But that
would be a little eccentric, so I'll refrain.
The performances do have much to offer. In the Italian Concerto,
she really 'lets loose' in the outer movements and generates big-time
excitement. In the Andante, Kuschnerova's repeated bass note initially
startled me with its boldness, but I later found it distinctive. Her
lyricism and sighing notes do not take a backseat to anyone. The basic
problem is that as each movement progresses, Kuschnerova's regimen of
limited dynamics and touch wears thin. Like a "Timex" watch, she just
keeps ticking and ticking in a monochromatic and strong style.
Any differences in her French Suite in C minor? It's more of the same and
often less than that. Kuschnerova now has another unfortunate trait; she
never seems to be stretching upward with her right hand notes, reaching for
her vision. Part of this effect is a lack of strong accenting at critical
points, but it's mostly just part of her style. Some folks look to the
horizon, others make sure there's no glass on the road. That's fair
enough, but much of Bach's music does not take well to the approach.
In the C minor French Suite, the Allemande, Menuett, and Gigue need
stretching and some edge from the right hand; Kuschnerova supplies little
of either. To make matters worse, her Sarabande is quick and superficial.
Only the Air is excellent music-making with a stunning vibrancy. Actually,
Kuschnerova delivers more emotional depth in the Air than in the Sarabande;
when that happens, you know something's off center. Kuschnerova's French
Suite in C minor is not successful and a big step down from Angela Hewitt's
version which thrives on diversity and nuance.
I was certainly curious how Kuschnerova would fare in the Toccata. I feel
that Bach's seven toccatas with their zest and spunk are best presented on
the harpsichord. A great artist like Glenn Gould can overcome the piano's
disadvantage and often use the instrument to effect transcendent results.
Does Kuschnerova overcome? To a degree. Her 'edge' is substantially more
pronouned than it is in the French Suite No. 4, but she still gives a
limiting performance concerning dynamics. Also, her double-fugue doesn't
possess sufficient urgency or weight, features which Kuschnerova usually
handles very well. She's certainly no match for Gould, especially
considering his transcendent double-fugue that perfectly blends urgency
and tenderness.
The Partita No. 6 almost takes up half the disc's music, and Kuschernova
does quite well in the Air, Tempo di Gavotta, and the Gigue; she's quick
and exciting. Although her Sarabande is well detailed, it's limited range
eventually results in a desire to go on to the next movement.
Kuschnerova concludes with her reading of the Prelude & Fugue in C minor
from Book 1 of the Well Tempered Clavier. I defintely want excitement from
the Prelude, and Kuschnerova easily provides it. However, her Fugue is too
strong and lacking in nuance.
The disc's recorded sound is exceptional; its clarity is particularly
impressive. Unfortunately, great sound alone won't win any awards. With
performances never better than worthy, and also considering the throw-away
version of the French Suite No. 2, I don't consider the Kuschnerova disc
a viable contender.
Don's Conclusions: Not recommended. Limited Performances which offer a
limited Bach.
Don Satz
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:28:51 +0100
From: Grzegorz Lodyga <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: L'Orfeo
A few months ago I bought Monteverdi's L'Orfeo on K617 label. It's very
wonderfull record but libretto is not include. I have tried to find it
in internet but I can`t. Could sombody help me please?
Grzegorz Lodyga, Krakow
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:36:53 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Naxos February Releases
My thanks to Richard Pennycuick for providing the February releases
from Naxos. I just wanted to add that the Frescobaldi harpsichord
release is performed by Sergio Vartolo who has recorded frequently for
the premium-priced Tactus label. Also, Tactus has a recording of Vartolo
performing Frescobaldi on harpsichord and organ. Vartolo is an excellent
artist, and Naxos has scored very well by snaring him.
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:14:43 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sir Roger Jousts With Mortality
Janos Gereben ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>The Faust symphony is a strange piece, even from the habitually,
>professionally bizarre Liszt. The length and structure are similar to
>Beethoven's Ninth, but otherwise, it's more like a Strauss symphonic poem,
>minus "program music." The 25-minute first movement is a seemingly endless
>repetition of the same theme and short development, "very Liszt," with the
>sound of "Les Preludes" permeating it.
Sounds like a poor performance, the first movement usually doesn't sound
long enough.
>A 15-minute third movement provides a bridge to the very brief (5-minute)
>and utterly gorgeous finale carried by the men's chorus (sitting through
>the first hour, even as in the Beethoven) and a tenor soloist.
I'm puzzled - did RN say this? Because the final chorus (from Faust) isn't
a separate movement; nor, indeed, is it the original, which was purely
orchestral. Some people (Wagner incl IIRC) preferred the original. The
only recording of it I'm aware of is the Fischer (Philips) which has both
endings.
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:01:25 -0600
From: "Michael N. Butera" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A New Technology?
Don asks:
>Are there any list members familiar with this system? What do you think
>of it?
I first saw these consoles at an Austin, TX store I went to while visiting
some relatives up there. A few months later, I was glad to find that they
had also installed them at the new Barnes & Noble just down the street from
our house. I think they are absolutely wonderful and they take a bit of
the guesswork out of purchasing discs. I never make a purchase without
thoroughly researching it and seeking out sound samples and reviews on
the net anyway, but this added element in the stores makes shopping at
a brick-and-mortar store that much better.
I regularly buy online, but now that some online stores are charging
taxes for certain states (TX, alas, is one) shopping in stores might
become a reality for me again. The system B&N uses also allows one to
search their entire database of CDs on some of the consoles and listen
to samples whether or not they actually have the CD in the store.
Unfortunately, since the system is rather new, not all the discs and
all the tracks are covered, so when one reaches for a rather obscure CD,
there might not be any sound samples available. Hopefully, their listening
database will grow with time and this drawback will be resolved.
Otherwise, I say, great job B&N! (Now if they'd just charge more
reasonable prices, I'd really be happy.)
Michael Butera
Houston, TX
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:38:45 -0500
From: Jeff Harris <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A New Technology?
I can't imagine that the system is actually playing the disc inside the
packaging. Rather I'd bet that it's reading the UPC code on the back of
the disc and using it to lookup the tracks on a computer. They have
probably ripped one copy of the disc and are using mp3s or some other
compressed format.
Does the system let you listen to an entire track? Or just a sample of it.
Jeff
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:20:18 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Canadian Web-Based Music Sources
Melanie Jo Watts wrote:
>Hi, Do any of the Canadians on this list know of any places to buy
>Classical music on the web? What I want is a site were stuff is listed
>and sold in Canadian dollars.
Have you tried http://www.absound.ca/ to which I was referred by an
Internet friend, when I discovered a certain recording wasn't available
in the USA?
Walter Meyer
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:25:00 -0700
From: Gene Halaburt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Canadian Web-Based Music Sources
Melanie wrote:
>Hi, Do any of the Canadians on this list know of any places to buy
>Classical music on the web? What I want is a site were stuff is listed
>and sold in Canadian dollars.
Although I live south of your border, I have been very happy with the
prices (shown in both Canadian and US dollars) and service of A&B Sound
Online. However, their search engine is terrible. Usual disclaimers.
http://www.absound.ca/
Gene Halaburt
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:09:03 -0500
From: Joe Gilbert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Canadian Web-Based Music Sources
Try www.hmv.com. Prices are given in both USD and CDN. I suggest you pay
in CDN to get the best exchange.
Joe Gilbert
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:10:05 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Canadian Web-Based Music Sources
Melanie Watts asks:
>Do any of the Canadians on this list know of any places to buy Classical
>music on the web? What I want is a site were stuff is listed and sold in
>Canadian dollars.
At http://www.mymusic.com/Classical.asp? you'll find My Music, where
I recently placed a 4th or 5th order in a year or so. Specify prices
in Canadian dollars (or American), and do your bookmarking after that.
>From then on, prices will be quoted in Loonies, not Yankbucks (...& the
converse'll happen, of course, for those who specify US dollars).
For retail, prices are good to very good, and items are shipped as
available without incurring any extra cost for multiple deliveries.
Delivery can be surprisingly fast: within a week I've already received
two (Albany) CDs. A London disk is apparently now on its way, though a
wait will be required for some more obscure stuff (on Cypres, Albany again,
Melisma, and Hommage).
Also, bear in mind that they also post items that turn out to be n.l.a.,
so don't expect to see everything you ask for. They have a wishlist
system, so you can store your own likes and defer decision-making till
you're feeling reckless. There's a toll-free number.
Sales are non-existent, just about (Brightman, etc.). Note: if a
price looks too good to be true, it probably is. It happened to me once:
Supraphon's 2-CD set of Martinu's PCs, for the price of one CD. An apology
was proffered, but no concession was made for their gaffe.
Even so, all things considered it's a very good cyber-store. An Australian
friend also reported being pleased, despite the postage to that side of the
planet. I don't work for them, etc.
Bert Bailey, in Ottawa (the site is an offshoot of this city's best
in-space CM store)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:37:19 -0700
From: Gene Halaburt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
Grzegorz Lodyga wrote:
>A few months ago I bought Monteverdi's L'Orfeo on K617 label. It's very
>wonderful record but libretto is not included. I have tried to find it
>on internet but I can`t. Could sombody help me please?
Try:
http://www.karadar.it/Librettos/monteverdi_orfeo.html
GeneH
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:23:11 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
Grzegorz Lodyga wrote:
>A few months ago I bought Monteverdi's L'Orfeo on K617 label. It's very
>wonderful record but libretto is not included. I have tried to find it
>on internet but I can`t. Could sombody help me please?
Easy to find with Google. Here it is, but in MS Word:
http://orfeo.grenoble.free.fr/Annexes/orfeo.htm
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 06:23:05 -0500
From: Bernard Savoie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Canadian Web-Based Music Sources
You can visit Archambeault's site. They are Quebec's largest classical
retailer.
http://www.archambault.ca/
Bernard Savoie
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 07:33:21 -0500
From: "William F. Dishman" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bantock Tone Poems
As I recently listened to Thalaba the Destroyer, I also looked over the
other Bantock releases and a reference was made that The Witch of Atlas
was the 5th of his tone poems. I am curious as to which titles correspond
to which tone poems. While on the subject the same question applies to the
tone poems of William Wallace.
Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:37:39 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Furtwaengler's German Requiem
Johannes Brahms
Ein deutsches Requiem, op. 48.
* Kerstin Lindberg-Torlind (soprano); Bernhard Soennerstedt
(baritone)Stockholm Konsertfoerenings Orkester & Musikalista Sallskapet
Koer (Stockholm, 19 November 1948)
* Elisabeth Schwarzkopf (soprano), Hans Hotter (baritone)
Orchester der Luzerner Festwochen & Chor der Luzerner Festwochen (Lucerne,
20 August 1947)
Wilhelm Furtwaengler, cond.
Music & Arts CD 1085 (2 CDs) (F) (AAD) TT: 79:25 + 79:17
I admit up front that I have never heard a performance of the German
Requiem that satisfied me completely. Indeed, during my anti-Brahms
apostasy, my opinion coincided with George Bernard Shaw's notorious and
wickedly funny remark that it was an exercise "borne patiently only by the
corpse." But I was an enthusiastic chorister and so had opportunities of
hearing it and singing it -- or parts of it -- again and again. I began to
be struck by the impression that I liked the individual numbers very much
indeed, but that the whole bored the earwax out of me. I got the bright
idea to list the obstacles in my way of the whole:
1. Very little change from a basic slow tempo.
2. Many of the numbers share the same shape: prelude and fugue.
Slow tempi, of course, cause more problems than fast, particularly
over the long haul. Too-slow tempi -- and I'm one of the heretics that
dislikes Klemperer's probably-classic account on EMI -- destroy the sense
of forward motion. As you can tell from the timings, these aren't the
zippiest performances around (and notice how consistent the timings are;
Furtwaengler really did want it this slow). Nevertheless, it's not the
quantifiable number of beats per minute that's the problem, but whether
one can maintain the forward impulse of the piece at the tempo one sets.
Furthermore, Brahms brings off his contrasts mainly by dynamics and
texture, sometimes through unusual modulation. A conductor needs to seek
out opportunities for variety and to make the most of them when they come
up.
Learning of these two performances by Furtwaengler excited me. The
conductor is known for his ability to get music to move, as well as for
the depth of his interpretations. The disc presents two live performances
from the Forties. The "historic" sound crackles even more than usual. I'd
bet these are something like air checks on poor-quality acetates. From the
standpoint of sound quality alone, the Lucerne performance is worse than
the Stockholm one, with a shift from a high-treble hiss to a covered
quality and back every now and then I can't account for. Occasionally, one
can detect a slight warp in the playback. However, on the criterion of
musicianship, the Lucerne account outstrips the Stockholm, which itself is
undoubtedly one of the best performances I've heard. In Lucerne, however,
Furtwaengler bottled lightning.
The Stockholm performance begins a line of music that flows powerfully and
inexorably along. The choir enters out of nowhere, with a true pianissimo.
We can say the same for the long, dead-march second movement, "Denn alles
Fleisch ist wie Gras" ("for all flesh is as grass"). The procession moves
with the strength and intensity of lava. Things bog down a bit in the
baritone-with-chorus number, "Herr, lehre doch mich" ("Lord, teach me"),
due mostly to the baritone, Soennerstedt. On the other hand, Furtwaengler,
despite several attempts in the orchestral interludes, can't escape the
goo, the sense of stasis, and neither can the choir, whose sound becomes
muddier. Fortunately, they clear up for the fugue, which finally breaks
free with a mighty bound.
"Wie lieblich sind deine Wohnungen" ("how lovely are thy habitations"),
the shortest chorus, usually gives the least trouble to performers, which
may account for its popularity as a separate number. Furtwaengler does
nothing outwardly startling, eschewing Interpretation with a capital I.
Nevertheless, for me he captures the quintessentially Brahmsian serenity of
this allegretto securely. The crescendo to the fugato is superbly handled,
as is the much harder decrescendo to the coda.
With the entrance of the soprano soloist, the performance dips again.
She has the wind to make very long phrases, but still the notes tend to
come one at a time, even though she doesn't take a breath. The character
of her singing is also fairly one-dimensional: general-purpose Sad. The
second baritone solo, about the mystery of our change at the last trumpet,
lacks all mystery. The electricity comes from the orchestra and chorus,
with wonderfully vital articulate bowing from the strings and clear,
commanding tone from the choir. To be fair, I must admit that the baritone
quickly catches that excitement. The last movement begins with a bump.
I don't agree with Furtwaengler's decision here to begin so emphatically,
since I want to hear an emotional tie between this movement and the
beginning of the entire piece. I know why he does what he does, and the
score supports him rather than me. Nevertheless, I wish he didn't take so
long to back off the dynamic and to caress the music more. For he does
deliver, just not as quickly as I would like.
The Lucerne recording opens with music-making at the highest level.
Furtwaengler surprised me with, in addition to finding the consolation
in the music, the depth of passion in the very first chorus. It never
occurred to me that this music could express passion and thus Furtwaengler
revealed something about the music I didn't know. The dead-march reaches
levels of intensity beyond any other performance I've heard -- this despite
the fact that the recording technology couldn't capture the loud end of
the dynamic range. The sound just kind of poops out with an accompanying
"bloom" of distortion, even though chorus and orchestra continue to get
louder. Again, the crescendi and diminuendi are seamless, and Furtwaengler
achieves his volume without shouts or tromping on each note. It's like
watching a thunderstorm form in a desert sky. Furtwaengler handles the
transition to the fugue magnificently, and the fugue itself blazes.
The festival chorus of Lucerne has not only the technique, but great
understanding of the text. The Stockholm group has nothing to apologize
for, but the Lucerne choir shows it as capable, if not inspired. The liner
notes point out that the festival chorus was, amazingly, an ad hoc group.
The arrival of the baritone soloist -- Hans Hotter, the great Wotan --
takes everything to a new neighborhood of the empyrean. The voice itself
is gorgeous. More importantly, the singer not only shapes real phrases,
he injects into the music a drama missing from the Stockholm baritone's
rendering. Here, instead of two different performances going on
simultaneously, everybody's in the same room, to terrific effect. The
crescendo to the fugue ginned me up no end, and the fugue shoots out of
that windup as if from a gun. "Wie lieblich," in almost the worst sound
on the disc, nevertheless takes care of itself, as usual. The slight
rhythmic insecurities in the fugato aren't worth talking about.
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf steps in for the soprano solo. She buries the
Swedish soprano. Schwarzkopf's voice always takes me a little while to get
used to, but her musical intelligence is formidable -- an instrument that
tunes itself perfectly to the meanings of the text. And the tone isn't as
glassy as it later became. The recorded sound here is the worst on the
entire disc.
The mystery of the last trumpet unfolds like gangbusters, with Hotter
alternately overawed by that mystery and proclaiming its magnificence,
the chorus following his lead, and the orchestra conveying the anxiety of
apocalypse. The last trumpet (actually, trombones) sounds, and we see an
army of the dead leaping out of their graves to rush to final judgment.
The fugue begins a bit roughly, but it soon settles into a free groove.
The strings don't bow as sharply as the Stockholm band, but the volts are
still there in spades.
Furtwaengler doesn't press as much at the beginning of the last movement,
compared with Stockholm. This should have been what I wanted, but the
music, without that intensity, bogs down here -- just one of the many
little traps Brahms has laid into this piece. It takes to the modulation
into the major, at the words "Ja, der Geist spricht," to get moving again,
and again this has little to do with the quantifiable number of beats per
minute. Indeed, that hardly changes at all, if at all. But before that
point, the music doesn't move, and after that point, it does.
So I still haven't heard a perfect Deutsches Requiem, even interpretively
(forget the sonics for a moment). The Lucerne performance certainly
qualifies as one of the best, and the Stockholm fills the hungry with good
things, despite the lackluster soloists.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:40:51 +0100
From: Heinz Kern <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
Another place to look for opera libretti is:
http://www.impresario.ch/opera
Heinz Kern
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:33:22 -0000
From: Nicholas Roberts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Abbado's Verdi Requiem
Dear all, Heard a recording of Abado doing this piece tonight on Classic
FM - is a live recording of this work any good
Nick Roberts
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:26:46 -0500
From: Laurence Sherwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Music School Seeks Help
Silly me, I volunteered to assist a local music school develop a database
(probably web-enabled) of its collection of CDs. The school suffers from
an embarrassment of riches in having thousands of classical music CDs
donated from a private collection with no catalog. Until they are
catalogued and accessible they cannot be used by students and faculty.
I am a Unix system administrator. That means I provide care and feeding
to computers that run an operating system called Unix, which is a world
apart from Microsoft Windows, the operating system used by the school.
Still, I must be able to help devise a database so its CD collection can
be accessed by its various campuses in the metropolitan area. Right? Well,
no, or, well, maybe. There are many more qualified people than I for this
task. I don't know much about databases (if you don't know a lot about
them, maybe you have some friends who do). Perhaps someone, or the friend
of someone on this list, has the expertise needed and could serve as an
unpaid consultant to create one for the school. Need I point out that
the database person need not be geographically close to the school.
The school in question is a the Levine School or Music, a non-profit
institution that serves a diverse constituency, mostly children through
high school, though they have adult students. The main campus is in
Northwest Washington D.C. and three satellite sites are in Kensington,
Md., Arlington Virginia, and Southeast D.C. (Anacostia). You can learn
more at www.levineschool.org. (Also at the site you can volunteer for
other kinds of things besides building databases!).
If you, or someone you know, can help me build this CD database, please
contact me at the email address below. What is most needed is help with
the design phase of a database that lends itself to network operation, and
I have been told that an experienced database person could lay out a good
design in a matter several hours. While I cannot speak for the school,
I feel sure they would welcome the assistance of (somewhat) qualified and
eager personnel. Advancing music eduction builds not just the performers,
but the audiences of tomorrow. A great cause!
Larry Sherwood
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:13:03 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jan Ladislav Dussek and Napoleon
Tim Mahon wrote:
>Some help, please? I'm working on a bio and worklist for Jan Ladislav
>Dussek (1760-1812) and have a query regarding a surprising assertion.
>All the sources I have consulted, incl the last two Groves, Baker's and a
>host of other dictionaries and liner notes, make much of his last position
>as Music Master to Talleyrand, Napoleon's Foreign Minister. However, my
>Larousse goes further and asserts - when talking about French musical
>development at the beginning of the nineteenth century - that "Napoleon's
>official pianist was the Czech, Johann Ladislaus Dussek."
According to one of the liner notes I have (Piano Trios, CPO 999583), the
contemporary lexicographer, Gottfried Johann Dlabac reported that in 1785
or shortly thereafter:
"... Dussek undertook a trip to Paris after his concert tour in the
company of the French ambassador to the Berlin court. Once again
it was shown that Dussek knew how to obtain the favor of influential
persons even in other places. In Paris it was the Queen herself who
lent the pianist her favor and support. Dussek performed at the
court, and Marie Antoinette made him generous offers in order to
encourage him to remain in Paris. The Bohemian was a regular
guest at the home of the poet Beaumarchais, where numerous public
personalities regularly gathered together. ... In this circle he
also made the acquaintance of a young but poor artillery cadet by
the name of Napoleon Bonaparte. ..."
He then, of course, fled during the revolution. The author is Andreas
Friesenhagen, translated by Susan Marie Praeder. The quoted part above is
from Friesenhagen's text, and not a quote of Dlabac. You may want to track
down the Dlabac reference for more info.
>Indeed, there is some evidence, apparently, that he may have met the then
>General Bonaparte during an extended visit to Paris 1786-9, from which he
>fled as the Revolution took hold. However, since the Larousse is the only
But, as Napoleon had just graduated military school in October 1785, he
would not yet be General. I believe it took about a decade more for him
to rise to that rank.
As I understand it, Dussek was with Tallyrand from 1807 to his death in
1812, but was probably not very active that last year or two before his
death. Those years were extremely busy for Napoleon. He was all over
Europe conquering things. He was in Berlin, Warsaw, Madrid, etc. Further,
by 1808 Tallyrand was no longer Napoleon's Foreign Minister. In fact,
Tallyrand was embroiled in a plot against Napoleon in that year with
Napoleon's head of police, Joseph Fouche.
I guess what I'm getting at is that though I think it likely Napoleon knew
Dussek, I doubt that cultural and artistic activities were a priority for
Napoleon in those years - I doubt he had much time for them - and he and
Tallyrand may not have been on the best terms for much of the time (I'm
far from a authority on this period of history, so please correct me if
appropriate). If Napoleon ever referred to Dussek as "official pianist"
it may not have been all that official. it certainly wasn't long-lived.
Dave
[log in to unmask]
http://www.classical.net/
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:58:12 -0500
From: Jeff Dunn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New Music at Pacific Symphony Concert
Pacific Chamber Symphony, Lawrence Kohl, Music Director and Conductor,
presents "Creme de la Bay", "... devoted to the immense talents of our own
Bay Area composers and soloists," with music by Kurt Rohde, Jake Heggie,
David Conte and Gordon Getty. January 15, Herbst Theater, San Franciso,
CA.
There is nothing wrong with milk. It's got a good public image and
provides fine nourishment to the hungry. Likewise with the Pacific Chamber
Symphony's opening concert of the season, a magnet for new-music addicts
who are starving for fresh notes warm from living composers.
Milk gets things bubbly a lot quicker when heated. Kurt Rohde's "Strong
Motion" (2001) provided plenty of energy, "Infernal Machine"-type
whizbanging, excellent orchestration, and continuing evidence that he's the
man with the most audible potential for musical fame and flame around the
Bay. As Rhode put it, "A very much on-the-brink piece - my idea of fun.
I have no recollection of writing those notes!" ... There may have been a
bit too many of them, for the work began to pale slightly toward the end.
One missed the concision of his "Five Pieces for Orchestra" premiered last
year.
Some Gallic chocolate sweetens the white stuff: Jake Heggie's single-
movement piano concerto went down easy with its set of "free-flowing"
variations on an engaging melody paced like the opening tune to the
Rachmaninoff third. Ravelian turns, suave transitions from the dancy to
the dreamy, and a flamboyant performance by Stephen Prutsman made this a
keeper for a candlelight dinner. Hope a CD gets issued as fast as his
masterpiece "Dead Man Walking"!
Then there's the milk without the cookies to go with it. Heggie's
orchestration of three earlier songs about the Biblical "Eve," nice as
it was, just cried for some percussive crunch. Eve's jazzy seductivity
by snake was well set in the previous piano version. The orchestration
took the piano away, and added no other percussion instrument. The result
seemed to make the argument less substantive, however well sung by Kristan
Clayton.
Finally, there's the mistake of serving milk at Communion. Certainly
the hate-crime murder of Matthew Shepard deserves commemoration. Moises
Kaufman's "The Laramie Project" was an unforgettable docutheatrical effort
in this direction. But lushly lactose sounds of Korngold and Schreker just
don't associate well with the words "To hell-bent fury on a prairie cold /
To hatred's dark malignant blows." Excellent orchestration in itself, but
seemingly inappropriate to the context.
Orchestration was also a problem with philanthropist Gordon Getty's "Three
Pieces for String Orchestra," which sounded like a student work despite
some nice melodies. The best part of this piece was Getty's introduction,
where he described how he changed the locale of the first number, "The
Fiddle of Ballykeel" from its true Belfast locus, Ballymoney. As he put
it, "People would say Getty, money. So I moved my ancestors a couple of
steps!"
Getty redeemed himself, however, with his words and composition of the
second of his "Old Welsh Folk Songs," performed by eight choristers and the
Symphony: "The kindest man alive? / Then bury me in state, boys / =85 /
Underneath the grate boys=85" all interpolated with "Fal-dee-re-dee-ree-do"
and sung at breakneck speed. Unlike the earlier suite; this number was on
the money.
So overall, no "creme," but a very worthy concept leaving plenty of white
mustache to lick later!
Jeff Dunn
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:25:52 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bantock Tone Poems
Bill Dishman:
>As I recently listened to Thalaba the Destroyer, I also looked over the
>other Bantock releases and a reference was made that The Witch of Atlas
>was the 5th of his tone poems. I am curious as to which titles
>correspond to which tone poems. While on the subject the same question
>applies to the tone poems of William Wallace.
Bantock's tone poems:
1. Thalaba the Destroyer
2. Dante (later revised as Dante and Beatrice)
3. Fifine at the Fair
4. Hudibras
5. The Witch of Atlas
6. Lalla Rookh
Grove's selective work list contains large quantities of further orchestral
Bantock to be mined and, it's to be hoped, recorded.
The Hyperion CD of four of Wallace's symphonic poems numbers them:
1. The Passing of Beatrice
3. Sister Helen
5. Sir William Wallace
6. Villon
The notes for his Creation Symphony include:
"There remain unrecorded only two of his six symphonic poems (one
of which is currently lost)."
The names of these pieces are not given; Grove is equally unhelpful. The
phrase "currently lost" suggests all sorts of theories, but I'll restrain
myself.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 16:23:41 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bantock Tone Poems
Bill Dishman wrote:
>As I recently listened to Thalaba the Destroyer, ...
Excellent, isn't it? One of my favorite releases of 2001.
>I also looked over the other Bantock releases and a reference was made
>that The Witch of Atlas was the 5th of his tone poems. I am curious as to
>which titles correspond to which tone poems.
As it happens, I was just looking into this last week. I'm certainly no
expert, but based on the selective works list in the New Grove, and some
liner notes, here's how I think some of the major works lay out:
Hebridean Sea Poem #1 "Caristiona" (1920)
Hebridean Sea Poem #2 "The Sea Reivers" (1920)
Hebridean Sea Poem #3? "The Seagull of the Land under the Waves" (1944)
Tone Poem #1 "Thalaba the Destroyer" (1899)
Tone Poem #2 "Dante & Beatrice" (1901)
Tone Poem #3 "Fifine At The Fair" (1901)
Tone Poem #4 "Hudaibras" (1902)
Tone Poem #5 "The Witch Of Atlas" (1902)
Tone Poem #6 "Lalla Rookh" (1902)
Symphony #1 "Hebridean" (1916)
Symphony #2 "Pagan" (1923-8)
Symphony #3 "The Cyprian Goddess" or "Aphrodite in Cyprus" (1939)
Symphony #4 "Celtic" (1940)
I don't believe the symphonies are numbered, so I added those, and I'm not
sure about the third Hebridean Sea Poem. I know the work exists, I just
don't know if he considered it part of that cycle. There are quite a few
other orchestral pieces, including overtures, suites, and serenades. Among
the most interesting, based purely on titles and instrumentation, might be
the four listed works for cello and orchestra:
Elegiac Poem (1898)
Celtic Poem (1914)
Dramatic Poem (1914)
"Hamabdil" (1919)
No conventional concertos for any instrument are listed. There are also at
least two string quartets, five violin sonatas, a cello sonata. As far as
I know, only the third violin sonata has been recorded, and is available on
a release from Cala with violin sonatas by Dunhill and Stanford, which may
already be unavailable.
>While on the subject the same question applies to the tone poems of
>William Wallace.
That's a little tougher. The Hyperion release of his tone poems was
the very first recording of any of his music, so his output isn't as
well-documented. Here are the ones I know:
Tone Poem #1 "The Passing Of Beatrice" (1892)
Tone Poem #3 "Sister Helen" (1899)
Tone Poem #5 "Sir William Wallace" (1905)
Tone Poem #6 "Villon" (1909)
The short article on Wallace (1860-1940) in the New Grove mentions the
other two tone poems:
"... His main sympathies were with Liszt, and his music reflected
this: the six symphonic poems (he pioneered the form in Britain)
were no uncreative tribute to his idol. The first, The Passing of
Beatrice, was based on Dante; Goethe, Rossetti and Villon were the
sources for subsequent works of this type. ..."
So there are some clues there, but no titles.
Dave
[log in to unmask]
http://www.classical.net/
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:36:42 -0600
From: Kevin Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A New Technology?
Donald Satz wrote:
>I am not a computer buff, and I found a process yesterday that I'd like
>to share with you. Here in Albuquerque, a new Barnes & Noble store opened
>up. The store has a process where the customer can place an unopened disc
>complete with wrapper on to a shelf, and the disc starts playing. You can
>even push a button and listen to the track of your choice.
If this is the system I think it is, it works thus: The "shelf" you placed
your disc on is a bar code reader, that when activated, tells a computer to
play the file that matches the bar code. The music on the disc is stored
on a hard drive and you can play the music. The problem is that not every
cd available is stored on said hard drive, and I bet if you took something
obscure to that shelf, it would not be recognized. It's a nice idea, but
I have seen it in other stores and it is very limited.
Kevin
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:15:55 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Handel's Eight Great Suites for Keyboard, Part 4
Suite No. 4 in E minor, HWV 429 - A five movement work having an Allegro,
Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, and Gigue. The preference of most
performers is to alternate quick and exciting movements with the slower
and poignant ones in order to maintain excellent contrast.
Keith Jarrett does not quite subscribe to the above approach. He offers a
very slow Courante and transforms the suite into three poignant movements
framed by two exciting movements. Although he performs the Courante very
well, there is less variety. Also, Jarrett's Sarabande is quick and
surface-bound.
Blandine Verlet takes the same path as Jarrett; other problems are her
first and last movements which are also on the slow side, possess little
bounce, and are not exuberant. The whole performance takes on a drab
quality. Overall, Verlet is sometimes playing these suites in a somber
manner with insufficient lift.
Unlike his performances of the first three suites, Nicholson disappoints
in the E minor. The wonderful bounce and energy he has been displaying
eludes him this time. His Allemande and Sarabande do not dig deeply
enough either. There's a lack of involvement in the work from Nicholson,
and I find it puzzling.
Two things most strike me about Gould's performance of the E minor. One
is that he sounds just like 'Gould on the piano'; the second is that his
touch tends to be one-dimensional throughout the work. There are some
fine aspects as well. Gould delivers much excitement in the first and
last movements, and he effectively plucks his way through the Sarabande.
But overall, this is not a compelling version.
Gavrilov does very well. His strength and exuberance in the first and
last movements are appealing; he also gives the Courante the needed zip
to provide contrast. Best of all is Gavrilov's heart-felt and very slow
Sarbande which is the most tender interpretation I know.
Sophie Yates starts off with a fine Allegro which could have handled
a little more excitement, but she really takes off with her vivacious
Courante. Yates then follows up with a deeply emotional Sarabande and
very energetic Gigue. Her peformances are excellent and up to the
standard achieved by Gavrilov.
You can usually count on Anthony Newman to stay away from mainstream
interpretations and put his own unique slant on the music. So it is with
Newman's E minor. He gives the Allemande a choppy quality yet keeps it all
hanging together splendidly. The tension in his Courante is compelling,
and his Sarabande is the most uplighting I've ever heard. Newman changes
textures and shadings perfectly throughout the work and surpasses Gavrilov
and Yates in my estimation. His is easily the most distinctive version of
the nine being reviewed.
Although I can't report that Alan Cuckston at any point surpasses the
field in the E minor, he gives a highly enjoyable and beautifully flowing
performance. Cuckston captures the excitement, tension, zest, and
tenderness of the work. Let's give him a spot next to Yates and Gavilov.
It didn't look good for any electrifying performances of the first movment
Allegro, but Scott Ross answered the call. It's a dynamite Allegro
followed by excellent dance movements. The depth is in abundance in the
Sarabande and excitement reigns in the Courante.
The order of preference for the E minor is:
1. Ross
1. Newman
3. Cuckston
3. Gavrilov
3. Yates
6. Gould
6. Verlet
6. Jarrett
9. Nicholson
Updates: With Nicholson sinking low in the Suite in E minor, his lofty
position has been cut down to size. Cuckston, Ross, and Newman are now
the front runners.
Conclusion for Gould: Gould's disc only has the first four suites rounded
off by two pairs of preludes & fugues from the Well Tempered Clavier(BWV
878 & 883). Although it's interesting to have Gould play pieces from the
"48" on harpsichord, he still plays them as if on piano.
The major consideration concerning the Gould disc is whether to shell out
money for Gould's magical Suite No. 1 in A major which unfortunately has
the baggage of uninspired readings of three other suites. My advice is to
go for it. Gould's wild and crazy A major Prelude alone is worth the price
of the disc; just don't expect much beyond the A major.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:53:43 -0500
From: Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gerber's Elegy On The Name "Dmitri Shostakovich"
New York Composer Steven R. Gerber's Elegy On The Name "Dmitri
Shostakovich" To Be Performed at Juilliard School on January 25
NEW YORK, NY- (January 17, 2002) - New York composer Steven R. Gerber's
Elegy On The Name "Dmitri Shostakovich" will be performed by violist
Michael Klotz at The Juilliard School's Paul Hall, 60 Lincoln Center
Plaza, on Friday, January 25 at 6 PM.
Mr. Klotz will also present music by Brahms, Kreisler, Hindemith and
Turina. This concert is free and open to the public.
Steven R. Gerber is the subject of the current Electronic Dialogue
interview in Sequenza 21 web magazine. Read the interview at
http://www.sequenza21.com/index.html. He was also featured in a recent
issue of the Journal of the American Viola Society in which he discussed
the Elegy as well as the Viola Concerto he wrote for Yuri Bashmet, which
was recorded by Lars Anders Tomter for Chandos.
On request, Jeffrey James Arts Consulting will send a CD Sampler of
selections from Mr. Gerber's music, including the finale of the Viola
Concerto and two movements of his Symphony No. 1. To request a copy,
please contact [log in to unmask]
Steven R. Gerber's music has gained international attention as a result
of two recent CD releases (on Chandos and KOCH) featuring several of
his major orchestral works, including the Viola Concerto, along with his
Symphony No. 1, the Serenade for String Orchestra and the Violin and Cello
Concertos. Mr. Gerber has written for a number of fine soloists including
Yuri Bashmet, Kurt Nikkanen for the violin concerto and Carter Brey for
the cello concerto. His work has been performed by groups such as the
Knoxville Chamber Orchestra, the Fine Arts Quartet, the National Chamber
Orchestra and the Russian Philharmonic.
Mr. Gerber's music is available on Chandos, KOCH International Classics,
and CRI.
For more information about Steven R. Gerber, visit his website at
http://www.stevengerber.com or contact Jeffrey James Arts Consulting at
516-797-9166.
Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:27:11 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music School Seeks Help
Laurence Sherwood asks for help cataloging a collection of CDs::
You might want to check out Tim Dickinson's ClassiCat:
http://www.tdware.com/
len.
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:31:31 +0100
From: Alberto Cobo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: My New CD
Although I am now playing (piano) Freire, Guastavino, Tosti, Lacalle,
Puccini (Tosca), Roig, Cesar Frank, boleros and habaneras...
I am happy to communicate you my new CD in internet. Until the moment
you can listen to 3 songs in:
http://www.mp3.com/alberto_cobo
- O mio babbino caro (arrangement)
- Aural perfume (my music)
- Dawn in Sevilla (my music)
Greetings,
Alberto Cobo
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:41:27 +0100
From: Mats Norrman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Romantic Songs
Are there other fans of the romantic Carl Loewe out there? I think several
of his songs belong to the best of romantic song repertoire. CPO has a
very fine set with different artists. If others like Loewe too, feel free
to drop me a line.
By the way I just came a cross another work; the cantata "Suehnopfer des
neuen Bundes" with Collegium Musicum S:t Gallen/Mario Schwarz. He was
great in that genre too.
Mats Norrman
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:29:34 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A New Technology?
The information I provided about the new system at Barnes and Noble was
based on what my wife told me of her experience there. I personally went
there yesterday. The system only plays 'samples' from each track; that's
not as advantageous as I thought it was.
Actually, advantageous or not, it won't make any difference concerning
my buying patterns. I normally don't sample before buying and have little
interest in doing so. My view is that only repeated listenings really tell
me what I think of the recordings; a bunch of samples don't provide much
insight. On the other hand, samples did let me know that Billy Joel's new
classically oriented and derivative recording is not up my alley.
Stockhausen may need repeated hearings, but Joel does not.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:51:26 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Early Music Texts
Are there any dear souls out there who can help me out? I am listening
a lot to medieval and renaissance music these days but haven't got all the
texts - and I am for sucker for the connection of music with words and want
to know the exact words.
Here are the (original and translated!) texts I need (and I have already
tried google which was an enourmous help):
1) Hildegard von Bingen: Caritas abundat (I've only got the "chorus")
2) Petrus de Cruce: Aucun ont trouve
3) Adam de la Halle: De ma dame vient
4) Philippe de Vitry: Cum statua
5) Guillaume Dufay: Bon jour, bon mois, bon an
6) Josquin Desprez: Baisez-moy, ma doulce amye
7) Johannes Ockeghem: Intemerata Dei mater (I have got the original text
but obviously Ockeghem used a kind of altered version)
8) There is a wonderful motet by an Anonymous, "In mari miserie", obviously
taken from the Roman de Fauvel, which I only have the Latin text from.
Anyone there with a translation? Here is the original: "In mari miserie,
maris stella / Errantes cotidie a frocella / Defende nos et precare dominem
fie / Ut at portas glorie nos trahat per hoc mare nos / Que Fauvel faciat
superare."
Ah, how wonderful Dunstable's "Veni sancte spiritus" is! (Just listening
to it.)
Thanks a lot,
Robert
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 04:24:41 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gregorian Chant
How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
nervous?
Robert
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:35:17 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tsai = John Cage + 111'27"
I think fans of John Cage's _4'33"_ are wrong appreciating when a pianist
sits silently at the instrument for 4 minutes and 33 seconds. The 1952
piece, in fact, is written for "piano or any instrument." The introduction
of the pianist, I believe, taints the idea of silence produced by
instruments.
Perhaps less tongue in cheek, enthusiasts for Tsai Ming-Liang's films
may be disappointed when unwarranted action interferes with the superbly
meaningful view of paint drying.
You wouldn't believe the extent of enthusiasm for Tsai: accolades and
awards all over the place, prizes in Cannes, Chicago, Brisbane. I came
to this hot Malaysian-Taiwanese director late. . . and left early. Having
missed his first dozen movies (said to be all alike), I just caught up
today with his "What Time Is It There?" a 116-minute contemplation of
nothing much.
Eyes fixed on my conveniently backlit watch (a pose familiar from concerts
where 4'33" is performed), I lasted through 58 minutes and 30 seconds.
That 's almost half of the film, but it is twice the length of Cage's 1956
"27'10.554" for a Percussionist."
So what's all this about time? Well, that's what the film is "about," so
to speak. Here's what I saw: old man sits (5"), funeral for the same
(4"), son of dead man sells watches, young woman traveling to Paris buys
watch, the seller of watches in Taiwan sets all his watches to Paris time.
C'est tout, as they say in Taipei, but my plot description cannot begin to
describe the non-action, non-movement, the visual silence on the screen.
Worried that I might have missed something, I turned to the program notes
and found Tsai's own description of what the film's non-actor hero does:
"Walking, drinking, eating, sleeping, peeing, vomiting, bathing, killing
cockroaches, committing suicide, using watermelons as bowling balls,
masturbating under other people's bed, sticking his legs into an improbably
[sic] hole. . . Hsiao Kang's naturally slow gestures are oddly but
genuinely suited to showing these daily, mundane, repetitive and
occasionally out of the ordinary activities."
Much of this and the out-of-ordinary must take place after I gave up.
In that first hour, there was pretty much nothing, unless you count Hsiao
Kang' s three lengthy scenes of urinating, once into a plastic bag, twice
into a bottle. Could this device be used to enliven performances of the
Cage piece?
Stand by for more festival honors to be won by Tsai.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:13:05 +0100
From: Mats Norrman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jan Ladislav Dussek and Napoleon
If anyone would take interest in Napoleons Musical tastes, I could
inform that he was a great fan of Haydn. Several biographers mention
his affection for Haydns music as a footnote when they report about the
attempt to assassination on Napoleon when he traveled through Paris - to
the Theatre - in an open chariot, and someone threw a bomb on him. The
quick Napoleon catched the bomb and threw it away from himself before it
exploded. The piece he was about to hear was the premiere of Haydns "The
Creation" and the year was 1800. Napoleon apparently liked Haydns music,
then when he had captured and occupied Wien in 1805, he placed an honorary
guard outside Haydns home. Haydn however was embittered over his own
old age and his fatherlands disfortune and seemingly didn't appreciate
Napoleons honorary guard, as he used to pass it without greeting. I think
Haydn also got some sort of medal. That is likely, but I don't have the
approapriate sources at hand to confirm it.
Does anyone sit in with further information on Napoleons musical tastes?
Are there any reports on an eventual comment from Napoleon on Beethovens
withdrawal of the dedication to him of the Eroica?
Perhaps it was Napoleon who first came up with the frequent saying that
Beethovens "Wellingtons Sieg" is garbage music?:-)
Mats Norrman
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:31:30 -0500
From: Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Americas Vocal Ensemble at Americas Society - January 30
Americas Vocal Ensemble in Concert - Music and Poetry of Spain and
the Americas - January 30 Concert at 7:30 PM
The Americas Society is pleased to present a vocal and instrumental
concert by the Americas Vocal Ensemble, "Music and Poetry of Spain and the
Americas" on Wednesday, January 30, 2002, 7:30 PM at the Americas Society,
680 Park Avenue, corner of Park Avenue and 68th St. in Manhattan.
This program will showcase works by Panamanian born Gunhild Glass, her
music and poetry as well as contrasting settings of Federico Garcia Lorca
by Glass and Cesar Vuksic; the Concerto for Piano and Five Instruments by
Manuel de Falla, Cesar Vuksic on piano, and the world premiere of "Poems of
the Night" for choir and instrumental ensemble by Argentine composer Dante
Grela.
Other program selections will be Gunhild Glass's songs "Yo no tengo
soledad", "Lucille", "Un ciego", "Los suspiros son aire" and "Humdrum",
Juan Vasquez' "De los Alamos vengo" and Five Latin American songs: Luis
Antonio Escobar's "El del sombrerito e jipa"; arr. Chabuca Granda, "Fina
Estampa"; Moraes-Powell, "Berimbao"; Arr. Gunhild Glass, "Oiga Usted
Senora Juana" and "El Sapo".
Participating musicians for this concert will be the Americas Vocal
Ensemble, Nelly Vuksic, Director, with Cesar Vuksic, piano; MariaElena
Tobon, flute; Jackie LeClair, oboe; Liz Player, clarinet; Jorge Avila,
violin and Ruben Khodely, cello.
General Admission tickets are $15, Students & Seniors $10. Reservations
can be made by calling 212-249-8950 ext 463 or by email at
[log in to unmask]
The Americas Vocal Ensemble was founded by its Director Nelly Vuksic,
is a professional chamber group whose mission is to foster understanding
among the people of the Americas and to preserve the musical and cultural
richness of the diverse countries of North and South America.
The Americas Vocal Ensemble made its debut at New York's Americas Society
in 1982, and has performed throughout the northeast U.S. and South
America, including New York (Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center), Washington
DC (the Inter-America Music Festival) and Boston (The Gardner Museum) as
well as at colleges, libraries, music schools, community centers, museums
and many other venues. In affiliation with the Americas Society, they have
for many years presented unique and innovative programs and have performed
premieres of more than 100 contemporary works, including compositions by
leading North and South American composers.
In 1998, they performed for The American Composers Orchestra at Carnegie
Hall as part of the Sonidos de los Americas Festival. They have also
appeared with the Westchester Philharmonic (as part of the Music America
Festival), Hoboken Symphony and Fairfield Chamber Orchestra.
The Americas Vocal Ensemble has been heard on National Public Radio, many
New York stations and the Voice of America. They have also appeared on New
York Public Television and the Hispanic Information and Telecommunications
TV Network. Their two latest CDs "Serenata" and "Gala del Dia" have been
recorded for the North South Consonance label. Learn more about these
disks at http://www.nsmusic.com/catalog/catalog.html. They have also
recorded for the CBS, Opus 1, Premiere and AVE labels. Their next release
will be on the 4Tay label in Spring 2002.
Visit their webpage at http://www.jamesarts.com/AVEFLYER.htm.
This concert is co-sponsored by the Americas Vocal Ensemble through grants
from Meet the Composer/JPMorganChase Fund for Small Ensembles, Queens
Council on the Arts and the Association of Hispanic Arts.
The Americas Society is a national not-for-profit institution dedicated to
informing people in the United States about the societies and cultures of
its Western Hemisphere neighbors. The Americas Society makes its programs
accessible to people with disabilities. Please call to make arrangements
for special needs.
THE AMERICAS SOCIETY
680 Park Ave. New York, NY 10021
HTTP://WWW.AMERICAS-SOCIETY.ORG
TEL 212-249-8950 FAX 212-249-5868
MUSIC DEPT. & CONCERT RESERVATIONS: TEL 212-249-8950 ext 463
Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:22:34 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
When I've a little more time I'll have a look at some of my CD.s Meantime,
this URL may be of interest;
http://www.diamm.ac.uk/index1.html
Fascinating! Digital Images ...Medieval Manuscripts. I found it via
[log in to unmask] Project Manager, Dr. Julia Craig-McFeely is a
member, as am I!
Doris<><
(thinks-could I be a "Dear Soul"? How nice.)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:57:53 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Andsnes! And Tetzlaff Too
Something wonderful happened in the seven years since Ruth Felt first
engaged Christian Tetzlaff and Leif Ove Andsnes, then in their late 20s,
for a San Francisco Performances recital.
They have both appeared here since, separately, but their first joint
return appearance in Herbst Theater tonight was simply sensational, the
bright promise of that past concert by the young duo fully, gloriously
realized.
Tetzlaff is now a brilliant violinist, Andsnes a great musician, rather
than "just" an outstanding pianist. It was just last week, in Davies Hall,
that I felt somewhat shortchanged by the young Russian pianist, Konstantin
Lifschitz, hearing how the instrument stood between the performer and the
music. The piano disappears when the Andsnes of today pours the music out,
securely, magnificently, with flawless inevitability.
Attention Aspen and vicinity: tonight's concert will be repeated there
Thursday evening. Do not miss.
The opening work, Beethoven's C minor Sonata (Op. 30, No. 2), was all
of one piece, performed with impeccable classicism and yet with elegance
cradled in warmth. Here, as throughout the recital, Tetzlaff and Andsnes
partnered each other perfectly. Schumann's Sonata No. 2 (Op. 121) opened
with a mighty, oceanic first movement; Tetzlaff played a remarkable
mandolin-like pizzicato in the second movement, and the concluding
movements, especially the bright, heartening finale, swept through
the hall while time seemed to stand still.
The uncompromising duo kept raising the ante through the program and
ended it with an amazing virtuoso performance of Bartok's First Sonata
for Violin and Piano. Tetzlaff was at his formidable best here, supported
every second of the way by Andsnes' torrential accompaniment. Nowhere was
this felicitous partnership better illustrated than in the movement played
almost exclusively by the violin, with only a few chords on the piano -
and yet those chords anchored the music, Andsnes' timing, tone, volume
providing safe home for the violin's adventures.
Separately or together, these are two musicians to seek out, to treasure.
If you're not lucky enough to hear them live, get Andsnes' new EMI CD set,
called "A Portrait." On two disks, he performs Grieg, Schumann, Liszt,
Brahms, Haydn, Nielsen, Janacek, Rachmaninov and Shostakovich. You won't
find better, richer, more varied piano performances among recent releases
anywhere.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:15:24 -0000
From: Christopher Rosevear <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Programming Old and Young
I have to devise a programme for the little Winchfield Festival
(www.winchfield.org) in June which combines and contrasts the old and the
young; so I am soliciting this list's eminent opinions for fresh ideas!
We have some of the Young Musician of the Year 2002 candidates playing,
matched with the more mature talents of John Lenehan, Malcolm Messiter
and Ian Cuthill.
I have pretty much lined up the last Saint-Saens sonatas (an old man,
writing beautifully clearly, but when played with the enthusiasm of youth
...!) - the oboe sonata, the bassoon sonata and (possibly) the clarinet
sonata.
I am hoping John Lenehan in his role as soloist as well as accompanist will
play some of the later Janacek; but I would like something by a then young
composer played by the more mature. The soloists (all of them virtuosi!)
are oboe - Malcolm Messiter and Catriona MacKinnon; bassoon - Ian Cuthill
and Charlotte Wintle; pianists John Lenehan and Evelyne Berezovsky; and a
brilliant young violinist whom I cannot yet reveal.
So I hope you can come up with some enchanting suggestions! (better still,
come to the concert - Wednesday 19 June 2002, 19:00 at St Mary's Church
Winchfield near Basingstoke UK - free supper if we use your suggestion!)
Dr Christopher Rosevear
Hook RG27 8DB, England
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:13:22 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tsai = John Cage + 111'27"
Didn't Andy Warhol make several movies like this? I recall something about
the Empire State Building and one of someone sleeping.
len.
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:28:47 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters asks:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient
>and nervous?
I only listen to Chant when it's injected into an organ disc. Under those
circumstances, about three minutes is my limit. I always have morose
thoughts when I hear Chant; it's a downer for me.
Don Satz
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:06:39 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
When it's Gregorian Christmas "A collection of seasonal Gragorian Chants"
performed by Choeur Gregorien de Paris, - forever!
Organ improvisations by Henning someroSome about800 years old,
Norwegian/Paris. Unusual, original, but never boring-bit like me- I
hope(:-)
Doris<>< (A.K.A. "My Old Dutch"- if you know the song-you'll get the
allusion)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:52:33 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters wrote:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
For hours and hours on end.
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:49:21 -0600
From: Bruce Alan Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
"Robert Peters" <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
Quite the reverse; Gregorian Chant relaxes me. That it what it was
primarily designed for--as an aid to meditation. (Both listening to
and performing.)
"Bruce Alan Wilson" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:51:55 EST
From: Mary Steele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Can listen forever. I love those chants. Makes one think of the higher
order.
Mary Steele
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:12:01 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters asks:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
I don't know. I apparently haven't reached my limit yet, which must be
more than several hours.
len.
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:29:06 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters wrote:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
It is not much fun to listen to, perhaps, but it can be all-encompassing
to sing and sing and sing.
William Copper
composer (singer)
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:14:52 -0500
From: Rosemary Ceravolo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Until you realize that the impatience and nervousness are not the fault of
Gregorian Chant, but possibly a quasi-neurotic (contemporary) inability to
get in touch with the mystical, meditative, contemplative and aesthetically
essential sounds made by the human voice, which were composed/designed to
bring about at least some semblance of peace and harmony in one's life?
At that point, of course, one naturally continues to listen.
Rosemary
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:54:08 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters wrote:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
Must be a very long time. This doesn't happen to me. But I don't try
and listen to chant in the same what I might listen to a Mahler symphony
or even the music of Ockeghem or Tallis. It's just not complex or varied
enough for that. I agree that to appreciate a heaping potion of chant
in your musical diet, you may need to have some resonance with the
meditative/spiritual aspects of the music. I find I listen to far more
Renaissance polyphony than I do plainchant. Most of the polyphony I
listen to is varied and complex enough to reward very careful, repeated
listenings. Chant works better as background music for me, and I don't
mean that in a pejorative sense. Even if I am doing something else while
chant is playing, I often catch myself humming the cantus firmus. I think
it would be great fun to sing.
Dave
[log in to unmask]
http://www.classical.net/
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:59:16 -0800
From: Dave Lampson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Igor Kipnis 1930-2002
Just received this from a listmember:
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:13:15 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Igor Kipnis (1930-2002)
Dear Friends and Colleagues;
I have just learned from Tully Potter, the Editor of Classic Record
Collector, that my good and supportive friend and colleague of more
than three decades, the internationally renowned harpsichordist,
clavichordist, fortepianist, record critic for Goldberg, Classic
Record Collector, Stereo Review, and many other journals, raconteur
par excellence, and keeper of the flame for the artistry of his
father, the extraordinary basso Alexander Kipnis, has died in hospital,
near his home in Connecticut.
Igor was one of the all time greats, and, while his immense and
fascinating legacy of scintillating, moving, and thought provoking
recordings, essays, and editions assure that he will not be forgotten,
those of us who knew him will much miss his charismatic personality,
his sonorous voice, and his rapier wit.
Requiescat in pace!
TNT
So, I'll be listening to Kipnis a lot today. If you aren't familar with
his playing, or even if you are, I highly recommend his recording of 15
Scarlatti sonatas on the Chesky label:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003GDN/classicalnetA/
Any other Kipnis favorites that should be recommended?
Dave
[log in to unmask]
http://www.classical.net/
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:50:22 -0800
From: Dave Harman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Donald Satz wrote:
>I always have morose thoughts when I hear Chant; it's a downer for me.
I attended a religious school in my High School years. As a member of
the choir, I sang a lot of Chant. With it's 5 spaces and 4 lines, strange
notation, fluid rhythm and, of course, Latin, it's quite different than the
printed music we're used to.
I enjoy the sound of Chant and it does bring back memories. But unless I'm
singing it, I can listen for about 30 minutes before loosing interest.
BTW, did you know that Adeste Fidelis is a chant melody with it's rhythm
straightened out to 4/4?
Dave Harman
El Paso, TX
They don't chant in El Paso
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:02:33 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters asks:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient
>and nervous?
I can listen to Gregorian Chant for about two minutes before I get bored.
Mike Leghorn
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:27:06 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters wrote:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
For quite some time, but for me it feels the best, when sung in Church.
Gregorian Chant on CD is not nearly as satisfying, for the same reason I
love organ music when played in a Church, but I cannot stand it, when I
hear it over the radio, or from a CD. I wonder if I am the only one who
feels this way.
Peter Wisse
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:02:32 -0200
From: Wilson Pereira <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Beethoven's Hair
Is anyone on the list familiar with the book "Beethovens Hair", by Russell
Martin? Any opinions?
Regards,
Wilson Pereira.
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:31:31 +0100
From: Grzegorz Lodyga <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
I like L'Orfeo more and more. Could anybody to recomend me another
recordings of this great Monteverdi's favola di musica. It's Vartolo's
version for Naxos comparable to my Garrido?
Grzegorz Lodyga, Krakow
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:22:22 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Importance of Credentials
I got a hate e-mail posting from someone who apparently has "spoofed"
their address (the return address was highly improbable). It was
essentially a witless diatribe against my reviews at the ClassicalNet web
site (www.classical.net). I almost always ignore these things, since over
the years I've learned that the poster has such low self-esteem, the only
reason he or she writes is to be noticed, to be given a place in the sun.
Therefore, the cruellest thing one can do is simply to leave the post
unacknowledged.
However, there was one germ of a point. The poster dumped on my musical
credentials. Granted, they're not Tureck's musical credentials, but
they're probably better than most. I never like to bring them up, since
I believe they're irrelevent to the quality of the review. That is, I've
seen bad reviews written by Ph.D.s and by great performers. I certainly
believe that knowing something about music can enhance a review, but
credentials aren't really knowledge -- merely the markers of activity.
Mozart, after all, never earned a musical degree. And I've also noticed
that often people question credentials when they can't bring up anything
substantive about the review itself -- that is, they don't engage the
argument of the review. I could have the qualifications of Charles Rosen
(I don't, by the way), but I'd still be capable of logical mis-steps, bad
ideas, and faulty perception. The alternative, it seems to me, is to read
Ph.D.s unquestioningly.
Anyway, that's what *I* think. I'd be interested to hear from others.
How important to you are the credentials of a reviewer and why?
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:29:49 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Steve Schwartz asks:
>How important to you are the credentials of a reviewer and why?
Assuming we're talking about professional credentials, they don't matter
to me at all. Actually, those reviewers with fine professional credentials
sometimes provide 'skewed' reviews based on the vested interests they have
naturally accumulated through their professional backgrounds.
What I like to see from a reviewer are the following qualities:
1. A deep and enthusiastic love of music
2. Being intimately familiar with some alternative versions
3. An identification of the style or styles preferred by the reviewer
4. Non-academic writing
5. Conversational writing
6. A final opinion - there are times when reviewers don't finalize their
thoughts.
Don Satz
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:23:42 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
The beauty of such a well-regulated list with such a high proportion
of meaningful, or interesting, or sometimes surprising posts is that
the credentials (or lack of them) are usually self-evident; if you write
meaningfully (as you do) then somehow you acquired the means to do so. So,
in my opinion, you gain credentials as you gain your own stature, but you
don't gain stature by getting credentials.
William Copper
[log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:25:33 -0000
From: Ian Crisp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Schwartzo:
>How important to you are the credentials of a reviewer and why?
Not in the least important. There are two qualities that matter to me
in a reviewer: (1) insight, and (2) the ability to communicate it. If a
reviewer lacks those, I ignore him. If he has them, then if he has musical
credentials as well that may make him more interesting in one way. If he
doesn't, that may make him more interesting in another. If a reviewer can
make me re-evaluate and/or change my opinions or prejudices, he's good.
If he can't, it's a waste of time reading him. It's really very simple.
Ian Crisp
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 08:53:31 -0600
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Steve Schwartz:
>I could have the qualifications of Charles Rosen (I don't, by the way)
They are unusual. This is from Contemporary Authors:
Personal Information: Attended Juilliard School of Music, 1933-1938;
Princeton University, B.A. (summa cum laude), 1947, M.A., 1949, Ph.D., 1951.
Career: Concert pianist, beginning 1951; Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, Cambridge, MA, assistant professor of modern languages, 1953-55;
State University of New York at Stony Brook, Stony Brook, NY, professor of
music, beginning 1971; [more]
>Anyway, that's what *I* think. I'd be interested to hear from others.
>How important to you are the credentials of a reviewer and why?
They can establish that the reviewer knows what s/he is talking about if
the reviewer implies any knowledge about the formal structure of the music
under discussion--tonality for instance, which has been discussed a lot
here. Credentials are no measure of taste, of course. In my own reviewing
I try to avoid making any claims I am not pretty sure about. I am mostly
self-taught through many years of listening and reading, but lacking in
any formal ear-training whatever, so there are some things I just avoid
speaking about in any depth. I tend to review only works I am enthusiastic
about, and I try to convey some notion of what the music is like in
terms of the basic elements of music: rhythm, dynamics, texture of
its instrumentation, harmonic texture to the extent I can hear it, its
thematic simplicity or complexity, whether it displays counterpoint, etc.
Occasionally I get nice comments, but I am satisfied if I can give anyone
a minimally informed expectation of liking the piece or not, based on their
own preferences. It really bothers me when reviewers say things like,
"this is the best performance, or this performance is better than that,"
without explaining why they think that, particularly when I suspect that
they sometimes speak most highly of performances that come closest to those
they first imprinted on. I have more confidence in comments like that
when the reviewer demonstrates comparative knowledge of several differing
performances--as Don Satz did the other day writing about Handel, or
as you did talking about Strauss some time ago.
Jim Tobin
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:03:04 -0500
From: Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
I think it would be interesting to hear comments on other ways in which
later music uses and adapts chant. Any takers?
"Ed Zubrow" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:59:06 -0800
From: John Smyth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
As someone who decided long ago that he wouldn't like GC, (without ever
listening to it), I have to report now that I find some quite haunting,
especially when it's a lone female voice doing the singing.
My humble suggestion would be to start with some performances by Sequentia,
though I believe some of their recordings are out of print. The soprano,
Barbara Thornton sings with a voice most beautiful and fetching. I've also
really taken a liking to Discantus led by Brigitte Lesne. Her voice is
beautiful as well.
If you're starved for harmony, I find that a resonant acoustic, and the
shape of the chant itself, can sometimes imply harmony that we miss.
BTW, for those of you interested in such things, that grand bass line
(with organ) towards the end of the second mov't of Respighi's "Pines of
Rome" (Catacombs) is the same as the bass line that underpins the forte
reiteration of Simple Gifts in Copland's Appalachian Spring. It is an old
chant, but I can't remember which one. Learned this at orchestra practice.
John Smyth
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:45:42 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Peter Wisse:
>For quite some time, but for me it feels the best, when sung in Church.
>Gregorian Chant on CD is not nearly as satisfying,
You've hit it on the head for me. To me, it's music that requires a
certain space and a certain set of circumstances. I can listen to it for
a very long time indeed if I'm in a church, maybe five minutes on CD before
I miss the Renaissance polyphony.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:05:16 -0500
From: Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Beethoven's Hair
Wilson Pereira wrote:
>Is anyone on the list familiar with the book "Beethovens Hair", by Russell
>Martin? Any opinions?
The book has two main themes, as I recall. The first is the mystery to try
to use DNA testing of several strands of hair to speculate on the causes of
his death. The other, equally interesting, describes the comings and
goings of fanatic collectors of Beethovenalia.
"Ed Zubrow" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:34:19 -0500
From: Bert Bailey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Igor Kipnis 1930-2002
Dave asks:
>Any other Kipnis favorites that should be recommended?
A no-brainer: Manuel de Falla's Concerto for Harpsichord, Flute, Oboe,
Clarinet, Violin, Cello and Chamber Orchestra.
It's out on "The Art of the Spanish Harpsichord," a mid-price Sony
Essential Classics (LSBK 53264) that's a very nice compilation of solo
harpsichord works by D Scarlatti, Blasco de Nebra, and Padre Soler
(including this last's Fandango). They should consider renaming this
desert-island CD "The Art of Igor Kipnis."
Bert Bailey
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:51:16 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
Grzegorz Lodyga wrote:
>I like L'Orfeo more and more. Could anybody to recomend me another
>recordings of this great Monteverdi's favola di musica.
For me the absolute best of all versions but a pretty unknown one: August
Wenzinger conducts the Orchestra of the Summer Music Days of Hitzacker
1955. Fantastic and authentic musicmaking long before Harnancourt claimed
the copyright for this. And there is Fritz Wunderlich, the most beautiful
of all tenor voices, singing three parts. Absolutely tremendous. It is an
DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON ARCHIV production, Mono 453 176-2. I repeat it: the
best of all Orfeos (and I listened to most since I am a sucker for this
opera).
Robert
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:16:47 +0200
From: David Rothstein <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Jay Kernis Garners More Recognition
Dave Lampson:
>"bored", which is what I hear often from classical music lovers who don't
>connect with Mahler. In a more recent concert locally, when it was
>announced that the next concert would be Bruckner symphony, I heard many
>similar comments on the way out. The most common was that it's just too
>long...
This reminds me of of a concert with the IPO in Tel-Aviv, I went to a few
years ago. 2nd half included Bruckner's 5th (one of my favourites), by the
way in my opinion badly played by the IPO.After the conclusion the person
in front of me (a well known C.P.A and a regular concert subscriber for 30
years) arose and said to me wearingly "Wasn't that hard".
David Rothstein
Israel
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 08:51:58 -0600
From: Kevin Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Beethoven's Hair
Wilson Pereira wrote:
>Is anyone on the list familiar with the book "Beethovens Hair", by Russell
>Martin? Any opinions?
Yes, I have read it. It's a somewhat amateur account, but I found it to be
a good read. It's a good story, regardless of what you might think of the
science involved.
Kevin
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:00:32 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Debussy from Kyoko Tabe
Claude Debussy(1862-1918)
Selected Piano Works
Reverie
Estampes
Two Arabesques
The Little Nigar
Children's Corner
La Plus que lente
L'Isle joyeuse
Claire de lune
Chandos 9912
Recorded September 2000
Kyoko Tabe, Piano
Title: Estampes
TT 65:29
Although a young adult performing artist, Kyoko Tabe has enjoyed a fine
career since starting out professionally in Japan in 1990. She has worked
with some of the well-known orchestras throughout the world and such
esteemed conductors as Eliahu Inbal, Neville Marriner, and Paavo Jarvi.
This new Debussy disc is the third Tabe has recorded for Chandos; the
previous two include a disc of Sibelius piano works.
Estampes represents the recording's focal point. Of the eight programmed
works on the disc, three were composed prior to Estampes in 1903: the
Reverie, the two Arabesques, and Clair de lune. Debussy's Estampes is
considered the first piano work displaying his mature style; prior piano
works tended to have a 'salon' quality but of the highest order.
At this point, I should provide my views on the basic difference that is
found among recorded performance styles of Debussy's piano music. Many
recordings offer a romanticized portrait of Debussy; others reveal the new
and fresh music he composed. Personally, I don't see or hear the value in
the romantic route. We already have a huge inventory of romantic piano
music from composers of that period; to add Debussy to the category robs
his music of its most basic properties.
Kyoko Tabe is another in a long line of artists who take the innovation
out of Debussy's music and dish out a continuous stream of syrup. Is it
beautiful music-making? Most certainly, but Debussy offers much more than
traditional beauty. Tabe neglects the modern rhythmic patterns and
surprises in Debussy's music while prioritizing over-rich sonorities and
emotional gushing.
These elements of Tabe's playing and other unfavorable traits are evident
throughout the disc. She's lethargic in the Reverie, mistakes Debussy for
Chopin in the first Arabesque, and over-pedals at every turn in every work.
The biggest turn-off concerns Estampes. The disc promotes this work as the
turning point for Debussy's piano music as he leaves the old behind and
ventures into new musical lands. Yet, Tabe takes us nowhere new. In her
hands, there is little distinction between Debussy's pre-Estampes days and
what came later.
Don's Conclusions: Kyoko Tabe never enters Debussy's soundworld, instead
presenting the 'Romantic Debussy'. I find the style derivative, limiting,
and not worthy of the composer. If all you want are some gorgeous and
romantic sounds, I suppose that Tabe would be satisfying. But it isn't
real Debussy, and the disc is strongly rejected as a proposed addition to
your library.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:20:33 -0000
From: Julian Allen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: John Adams at the Barbican
Dear All, Did anyone else go to the John Adams weekend at the Barbican.
I thought it was excellent. Its so nice to come across a living composer
who is actually writing music for the benefit of mankind at large rather
than some strange group of ascetic academics.
The highlight for me was the short vocal work entitled 'The Wound Dresser'
a setting of Walt Whitman. Both poetry and music in this piece are on the
highest level. It was sensitively sung by the British baritone Christopher
Maltman.
On the Friday evening there was a concert performance of Adams' opera 'The
Death of Klinghoffer', depicting the tragic events aboard the liner Achille
Lauro in 1985. The work was full of drama and menace - although the
libretto was somewhat obscure in places.
Best wishes to all
Julian
South London.
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:00:56 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Questions About Recordings
These are my questions:
Any opinions concerning the Debussy and Ravel piano discs from Madeleine
Forte on Connoisseur Society? I've yet to hear her in this repetoire.
Russell Sherman recently traversed the Beethoven Piano Sonatas on the GM
label. Now there's a new 3-CD set of Beethoven's Piano Concertos from GM
and Sherman. Has anyone heard the set?
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 06:58:01 -0000
From: Len Mullenger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Recording Wanted
Is anyone able to supply a copy of the Bax Piano Sonata on 3D Classics 8008
(9608) played by Girod?
Len Mullenger
Founder MusicWeb
The Internet CD review site
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 06:02:06 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Scheidemann's Organ Works from Naxos, Volume I
Heinrich Scheidemann(c.1595-1663)
Works for Organ, Volume I
Praeludium in D minor, WV 34
Dic nobis Maria(after Giovanni Bassano)
Magnificat VI Toni
Ballet
Erbarm dich mein, O Herre Gott
Toccata in G major, WV 43
Paduana Lachrymae(after Dowland)
Surrexit pastor bonus(after Lassus)
Jesus Christus unser Heiland
Vater unser im Himmelreich I
Praeludium in C major, WV 72
Naxos 8.554202: Volume 1
Recorded 1997
Van Hagerbeer/Schnitger Organ, St. Laurenskerk, Alkmaar(1646/1725)
Pieter van Dijk, Organ
TT 78:42
Summary: Outstanding Music and Fine Performances
This can be considered my declaration that Heinrich Scheidemann is one of
the greatest composers of the early baroque period. A pioneer of monody
and the chorale fantasy, he was one of the few to take music from the late
Renaissance to the baroque era. Of course, these accomplishments don't
automatically connect to outstanding musical compositions. In addition
to being a master and pioneer of musical structure, Scheidemann had true
musical inspiration. His emotional themes are diverse and incisive, and
his melodies and phrasing are of exceptional quality. In both the
structural and inspirational historical line, Scheidemann is one of the
mile-posts that begins with de Cabezon and then proceeds through Sweelinck,
Scheidemann, and Buxtehude before culminating with Bach.
Scheidemann was a 'Hamburg" man, and those were glorious times for the
city of Hamburg. Rich in commercial and artistic traffic, Hamburg enticed
many who yearned for prosperity and/or the heights of artistic endeavor.
Scheidemann did spend three years in Amsterdam studying with Sweelinck but
returned to Hamburg and remained until his death.
Recordings devoted to Scheidemann aren't thick on the ground or anywhere
else. However, that "you've got to love them" Naxos company has issued
three separate cd's of Scheidemann's organ music performed by three
different organists on three different organs. Calcante Recordings,
housed in Ithaca, NY, has distributed a 2-cd set with the promise of more
Scheidemann to come with Volume 2. The two Calcante performers alternate
frequently among works, and I think they are brother and sister. I could
be wrong about that.
The way I'm going to proceed is to review each of the Naxos volumes and
make comparisons to the Calcante set when called for. Then, I will finish
off the Johnson performances.
I am familiar with Pieter van Dijk through a Hanssler disc he recorded of
Bach organ transcriptions. I found his performances of the faster and more
exuberant music to lack some vitality. In addition, his registrations were
routine. Overall, he didn't strike me as a major-league Bach performing
artist. Of course, Scheidemann is not Bach, and the recorded competition
for Scheidemann is slight. However, van Dijk remains van Dijk in that he
uses the same organ as on the Hanssler disc. I suppose that's reasonable
since he is the church organist at St. Laurenskerk, but I would have liked
to hear him on a different instrument.
van Dijk's Scheidemann is a much better proposition than his Bach.
van Dijk fares best in the music requiring a light touch such as in
Scheidemann's "Dic nobis Maria" which is a series of short variations on a
theme by Giovanni Bassano. In this work evocative of the late Renaissance,
van Dijk's diverse registrations are delightful and creative; his light and
tender touch results in a highly rewarding and sparkling performance. Much
the same can be said of van Dijk's performance of the Ballet.
The more powerful works such as the Praeludium in D minor, WV 34 possess
plenty of energy in van Dijk's hands. This is powerfully austere and
relentless music, one of Scheidemann's most inspired organ works. van
Dijk well projects its majesty.
My sole complaint about the performances concerns only the second verse
of the Magnificat VI Toni. Scheidemann's most extended organ works were
his Magnificats, and the Magnificat VI Toni comes in four verses. Echo
effects permeate the second verse, and there are dozens of them. With
so many echos, it is essential for the performer to provide diversity in
registrations to maintain an interesting profile. However, van Dijk varies
his registrations minimally and the results are frankly boring and ruin the
work.
The van Dijk disc and the set from the Johnsons share a few works
including the Magnificat VI Toni where Johnson delivers all the diversity
of registrations I could wish for. However, van Dijk performs the
remaining shared works as well as the Johnsons, and both do a superb job
with the "Surrexit pastor bonus" which is one of the most uplifting organ
works I've ever heard. There is one basic difference between the Naxos and
Calcante recordings; Calcante provides a very wide separation of sound,
while the Naxos sound separation is rather discreet.
The Schnitger Organ is a fine historical instrument which van Dijk uses
well except for the verse mentioned earlier. Overall sound quality is very
good although a little dry.
Don's Conclusions: Hardly the 'last word' in this repertoire, van Dijk
gives very worthy performances of one of the masters of the early baroque
period. Scheidemann's organ music deserves some space in the library of
every organ enthusiast. Given the paucity of alternative recordings and
the low Naxos price, Volume 1 of the series represents a fine way to
experience the splendor of Scheidemann.
Don Satz
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 08:50:00 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Ed Zubrow:
>I think it would be interesting to hear comments on other ways in which
>later music uses and adapts chant. Any takers?
Most of these tend to be isolated. There *are* exceptions. Composers
who play organ seem to use chant more than others. Durufle, for example,
constructed whole works out of chants. His Requiem uses the appropriate
chant throughout.
To go back to the isolated cases: Rachmaninoff is probably the best-known
instance, with his fondness for the Dies irae. Bach elaborates the
standard chant for the Credo of his Mass in b. Elgar uses "Constitute eos"
in The Apostles and "O sacrum convivium" in The Kingdom. Vaughan Williams
also plays with "O sacrum convivium" in his Five Mystical Songs ("Love bade
me welcome") as Herbert's poem describes the feast with Christ.
VW begins the Gloria and Credo sections of his Mass in g with the
well-known incipits, but, more important, his own music is very chant-like.
Berlioz's Dies irae in his Requiem doesn't use the chant, but what he comes
up with sounds very much like it. I believe it's deliberate -- trying to
infuse an "archaic" feeling into the work.
That's all I can think of right now.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:08:49 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Peter Wisse wrote:
>For quite some time, but for me it feels the best, when sung in Church.
>Gregorian Chant on CD is not nearly as satisfying, for the same reason I
>love organ music when played in a Church, but I cannot stand it, when I
>hear it over the radio, or from a CD. I wonder if I am the only one who
>feels this way.
I don't mind hearing Gregorian Chant on the radio, but if it's done in
a concert, even a 'reconstruction' of a service, it always feels a bit
clinical to me. I need to hear appropriate sounds such as the rattle and
chink of a censer, priests shuffling around etc. before it really works.
If I'm at a live performance in a church, this is less of a problem as the
setting compensates.
I sing an a church where chant is used a lot and I'm afraid it's never
grown on me as much as later church music with harmony, even used
liturgically. Though I've learnt a lot, such as how to amaze people at
parties by distinguishing the eight psalm tones.
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:49:46 -0600
From: Peter Harzem <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Peter Wisse wrote:
>For quite some time, but for me it feels the best, when sung in Church.
>Gregorian Chant on CD is not nearly as satisfying, for the same reason I
>love organ music when played in a Church, but I cannot stand it, when I
>hear it over the radio, or from a CD. I wonder if I am the only one who
>feels this way.
I feel exactly the same about organ music. So much so that there have been
times I was embarrassed about that--foolishly asking myself 'should I not
enjoy this?' etc. I am glad of the opportunity to come out of the closet
with this, as I thought for a time, limitation to my musical appreciation!
I do, however, enjoy Gregorian chant on CD, but only if it is very good (of
course by my judgement.)
Peter Harzem
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:31:25 -0600
From: James Tobin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Ed Zubrow:
>I think it would be interesting to hear comments on other ways in which
>later music uses and adapts chant. Any takers?
Anglican chant, which I first heard a very few years ago in Westminster
Abbey and Canterbury Cathedral (also an abbey church) adds harmony to
stunning effect.
The Dies Irae was a Gregorian chant sequence, right? It was later used in
many compositions in modern times, as by Berlioz and most recently in my
hearing, a piece called Dead Elvis, for bassoon and chamber orchestra.
John Smyth:
>If you're starved for harmony, I find that a resonant acoustic, and the
>shape of the chant itself, can sometimes imply harmony that we miss.
I wonder if it is heard in a large church, the acoustic delay might even
create something akin to polyphony?
Jim Tobin
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:41:28 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient and
>nervous?
I can listen it several times a day, but no more than about 30 minutes
each time. That was the historically recommended dose. Besides, I wonder
sometimes if relaxation or meditation was ever the actual goal of Gregorian
Chant. Who knows if it was actually used for testing the spiritual
resistance of the monks? (penitentiam agete!!. ;-)
Talking seriously: it happened to me sometimes that --being envolved
in the study of it-- I could not hear anything but Gregorian Chant
during a large period (months). After two or three weeks, I stopped of
perceiving harmonic "meanings" in the melodies (something unavoidable
in our polyphonic culture). Then, I began to hear it in all its actual
complexity: the differences of style according to the type of piece, its
mode, etc. became much more clear and meaningful.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 06:42:06 -0500
From: "Norman M. Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Donald Satz writes:
>Steve Schwartz asks:
>
>>How important to you are the credentials of a reviewer and why?
>
>Assuming we're talking about professional credentials, they don't matter
>to me at all. Actually, those reviewers with fine professional credentials
>sometimes provide 'skewed' reviews based on the vested interests they have
>naturally accumulated through their professional backgrounds.
When I *do* look for expertise in picking a specialized physician to
diagnose and treat a medical condition I've acquired -OR- inform me as
to how good (or poor) of a job a conductor's done with the Beethoven
Symphonies *I do* very much consider credentials, otherwise as GWB's
father would most likely say "wouldn't be prudent".
"Norman M. Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:29:54 +0000
From: John Foss <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Of course you do not need "paper" qualifications to write a review!
Knowing a bit about music helps, and an ability to analyse, criticise
(in both the positive and negative sense) and communicate are what is
called for. My inbox tends to be swamped with Classical Music List posts,
particularly when I come back form holiday, and I tend to look through
those writers I know are worth reading - Steve Schwartz and Donald Satz are
a couple of them - and the "new" topics, and delete the rest! Sorry folks!
"John Foss" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 01:38:53 -0500
From: Jeff Dunn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Steven Schwartz and Jim Tobin bring up the interesting issue of Charles
Rosen's credentials.
For performance practice and music history, they are impeccable. For
judging the worth of new music, they are less relevant. His elitism and
Modernist bias are insufferable, and unfortunately make his credentials
seem more of a crutch.
So the point is, credentials must always be considered in context.
Jeff Dunn
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:14:28 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>:
>How important to you are the credentials of a reviewer and why?
There are no credentials that can provide what a good reviewer needs.
You don't learn a personal style of writing at Colleges (if you are lucky,
maybe you'll pass through University without a serious damage in your
prose). A review is a literary form, nearer to the essay than to the
academic paper. As we know, an essay is perhaps the hardest of prose
genres, as soon as your communicative ability hasn't here the support of
a narrative or esoteric subterfuges. It's just you and your charm (charm
is everything in literature!!). A reviewer can't take the liberty (allowed
to most academic writers) of being boring or meaningless. The reader
simply will not forgive him. One could also dismiss the academic writer
too, but he has always the hide of the "scientific utility" of his paper.
The reviewer has no place to hide, so his credentials are not really too
useful.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:02:07 -0500
From: Santu De Silva <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
The whole issue of credentials is an interesting one.
Think about it. One wants an opinion about something or other when one
doesn't have the means or the time to form one for oneself. Ok, to whom
shall I go for an opinion?
I could go to someone I know, and whose opinion I trust. But I know nobody
(personally) whose opinion I trust in this department. So I must needs go
to one whom I do *not* know, but of whom *it is said*, his/her opinion is
trustworthy. That's what credentials are.
When I'm reading Steve's reviews, I'm reading the opinions of someone whose
preferences I have read often and noted well, and of course I'm filtering
what I'm reading through my mental database of Steve-related trivia, which
enables me to calibrate my "graphic equalizer", as it were, to adjust for
his known idiosyncracies. The same goes for Don, or Janos, and so on.
Trying to replace the known quantity with the unknown, with "credentials,"
it is in every case *caveat emptor.* (This is a much larger issue than it
appears on the surface. Consider the - -entirely hypothetical- - case of
a college that's considering lowering it's admission standards.) In a
society where we lazily rely on third parties to do the assessing on our
behalf, we have to assess the assessors first.
The matter of credentials as a polemical tool is entirely different. Since
I'm entirely uninterested in those who are interested in the polemics of
musicology and such matters, I'm equally uninterested in their needs.
However, here's an interesting issue: there is a body of belief that the
whole "original instrument" phenomenon is a fiction. These people argue
that the 'reverse engineering' of Stradivarius violins, etc to their
pre-modernized state is a disaster, and that the sounds these instruments
make have no relation to their original sound. Thus, they claim, no one
really knows what baroque violins sounded like, so let's give it up.
Meanwhile, in the east, violins are still played with gut strings, with the
shallow angled necks, and played underhand, with the instrument rested on
the chest. Look at any number of Indian violinists.
One wonders whether the opinion of someone whose entire information base
is confined to western music really has a right to an opinion vis-a-vis
the sound of a Baroque violin, and whether it is possible to reconstruct
it. And if he or she has a right to such, whether it's worth anything.
Arch
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:35:39 -0600
From: Mike Leghorn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
to music. That's the problem. Good prose is much more impressive to
people than listening ability.
Mike
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:05:11 EST
From: Dave Mepham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
I only attended the Saturday night and was very impressed. Slatkin and the
BBC SO played a fantastic concert, but the highlight for me was a gentleman
(I didn't get the name) who was demonstrating the player piano in the
foyer. The finale of this was a brand new player piano version of A Short
Ride In A Fast Machine, and it was spectacular.
It was also good to see such an event well attended, although I can't help
feeling that an event with Adams, Reich or Glass would be well attended
whilst other 'contemporary' composers just as good or better wouldn't get
half the audience.
Dave Mepham
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:18:18 -0800
From: Dave Harman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
Julian Allen wrote:
>The highlight for me was the short vocal work entitled 'The Wound Dresser'
>a setting of Walt Whitman. Both poetry and music in this piece are on the
>highest level. It was sensitively sung by the British baritone Christopher
>Maltman.
Sounds like a good concert. I have the recording of "Wound Dresser".
I love the music but the words are a bit detailed and graphic for me to
listen to a lot.
Not recommended as dinner music.
Dave Harman
El Paso, TX
We don't look for John Adams to come here soon.
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:06:43 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
James Tobin wrote:
>Anglican chant, which I first heard a very few years ago in Westminster
>Abbey and Canterbury Cathedral (also an abbey church) adds harmony to
>stunning effect.
Some Anglican chants are harmonisations of Gregorian melodies, and the
form in general works on similar principles to the psalm tones, with
the half-verses of each psalm sung to a half (or quarter) of the chant,
consisting of a single 'reciting note' preceding a more varied ending.
However, the vast majority of Anglican chants are originial compositions
dating from the 17th century onwards and are not related to the melody of
any Gregorian chant.
_I_ think they can be capable of stunning effects, but Dvorak disagreed
with me; after hearing some on a visit to England he said the form was
'a bad melody repeated over and over' or words to that effect. Any other
devotees of Anglican chant out there? I have a collection of chant books
old and new, a list of chant melodies etc. and it might be interesting to
compare favourites.
Virginia Knight
[log in to unmask]
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:42:13 -0600
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Ed Zubrow wrote:
>I think it would be interesting to hear comments on other ways in which
>later music uses and adapts chant. Any takers?
Not sure I am understanding your question, but...
To list all of the works which are based on chant would be a substantial
task. Its use ranges from Cantus Firmus to variation to collage.
Karl
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:44:54 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Peter Harzem responds to Peter Wisse:
>>...for the same reason I love organ music when played in a Church, but
>>I cannot stand it, when I hear it over the radio, or from a CD.
>
>I feel exactly the same about organ music.
I wonder if this applies to all guys named 'Peter'. It is very true that
many folks associate organ music with religious proceedings. Even my wife
does, although she doesn't care for organ music no matter where it emanates
from. The harpsichord is her favorite keyboard instrument, not that she
salivates when she thinks about it. She only salivates when thinking of
me.
I'm sure that at some point in the past my immediate assocation with the
organ would have been the church/temple. However, now that I listen to it
while showering with a coconut soap, the association is tropical islands
inhabitated by scantily clad natives - beats the religious environment
every time.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:07:28 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>:
>I think it would be interesting to hear comments on other ways in which
>later music uses and adapts chant. Any takers?
Risk of generalization aside, one could say that the Western (written)
polyphony was born as a "synchronic commentary" of plainchant. There were,
at the middle ages, few polyphonic genres that didn't depend of a previous
known gregorian melody (the "conductus" for example, in which all voices
were "original"). A polyphonic voice was conceived in those times as a
simultaneous trope (or commentary, or variation) of a previous melody.
That voice could be placed up or below the main voice, named "tenor" (or
"vox principalis" at the earliest beginning). In fact, some of the names
given to the voices at Middle Age and most of the Renaissance, shows us how
was the process of composition, in which the tenor is the "center" of a
tissue of derived melodies:
Superius (a higher "free" voice)
Contra-tenor altus (a higher voice composed "contra tenor", or "from
the tenor")
Tenor (main melody)
Contra-tenor bassus (a lower voice composed from the tenor).
This is quite different to the (later) protestant custom, in which the main
voice was placed at the top, and the rest of the voices provided a chordal
background.
Of course, the first purposes of polyphony were quite humble, according
to our contemporary concept. "Decoration" may sound a bit pejorative or
secondary after ten centuries of polyphonic excercise, but... that was the
real matter. Somebody said once that Perotin's organa seemed like those
big initial decorated letters at the begin of manuscripts. That's right,
because the entire composition is just the musical decoration of three or
four initial syllables of a gregorian melody. Sometimes, listening a
Dufay's Mass for example, it's funny to think that all this polyphonic
writing is actually derivative, and that the voice leading somehow the
musical discourse is hidden under a dense skin, just like a skeleton.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:05:50 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Carter - Early Works
Elliott Carter
Early Works
* The Minotaur*
* Dust of Snow**
* The Rose Family**
* Piano Sonata^
*New York Chamber Symphony of the 92nd Street Y/Gerard Schwarz
**Jan DeGaetani (mezzo), Gilbert Kalish (piano)
^Paul Jacobs (piano)
Nonesuch 9 79248-2 Total time: 61:57
Summary for the Busy Executive: Before, on the way to After.
Carter wasn't always the High Priest of Awful Contemporary Music. Indeed,
it took him some years to reach that position. He began writing music that
sounded very much like the American composers of his time - Stravinskian
neo-classic, Pistonian symphonic, Copland Americana. During the Forties'
rediscovery of Ives, Carter also took part, composing pieces fairly similar
in ambition and scope to William Schuman's orchestration of Ives's America
variations. However, Carter never merely imitated, and he produced work
of very high finish. He also showed a hankering to write for virtuosi -
whether a virtuosic chorus, orchestra, chamber players, or soloists.
However, something happened around 1950, the time of his 8 Etudes and a
Fantasy. He began to become dissatisfied with the essentially Pistonian
idiom he had mastered. Ives entered more and more into his thinking,
opening up new technical possibilities, particularly the idea of
simultaneity. Carter explored ways to achieve this through rather rigorous
counterpoint (his neoclassic beginnings asserting themselves) and new
rhythmic devices like "metrical modulation," which rationalized unusual
tempo shifts. In doing so, Carter created an individual music, one which
gave full play to both his intellect and his poetry.
People who have heard the later Carter may question that last term. All
I mean by it is that expressive part of the music beyond what you get from
analyzing the score. Certainly, despite the technical influence of Ives,
Carter's music talks of different things than Ives's does. Ives is our
musical Whitman - the composer who contains the American multitudes and who
wants to give us back the complexity of our national lives. Ives didn't
hesitate to include the musical everything - ragtime as well as Beethoven.
Carter's music always strikes me as fairly well isolated from the vulgar
crowd. I can't imagine him incorporating boogie-woogie or rock. He seems
more interested in Ives's music from a technical remove, rather than in
the culture that inspired Ives. But this is negative definition. What
does Carter's music speak of? For me, it's the voice of the New England
intellectual Brahmin (despite the fact that Carter was born in New York):
patrician, witty, a pilgrim in the land of ideas. The image strikes me
as apt. A pilgrim is not only at the service and the test of duty, but
of a spiritual passion. There is no easy path to enlightenment, but
enlightenment is the overriding good. If Ives is our musical Whitman,
Carter seems to me our musical Thoreau - willing, even eager, for the sake
of conscience, to travel the hard road. This, at any rate, is where Carter
has ended up.
But he didn't start there, despite the case that people have made for the
continuity of his output. The continuity is there, but it's at the level
of Chomskian "deep structure." That is, I find it difficult to imagine the
innocent ear connecting, say, The Defense of Corinth (or even the piano
sonata) to the piano concerto. Nevertheless, the ingratiating neoclassical
idiom to one side, all of the works on this CD have the characteristic
busy-ness and polish of any of Carter's works, whatever the period.
The Minotaur, one of Carter's two ballets (the other, Pocahontas)
and written for Balanchine but never choreographed by him, is part of
a subgenre of American works around this time: the psychological drama
in Greek mythic dress, popularized but not limited to Martha Graham.
Undoubtedly, Barber's Medean Cave of the Heart ranks as the best-known
of such scores. Hanson recorded the Minotaur ballet suite in a classic
Mercury recording, until now the only account available. The full ballet
contains at least six more minutes of not-negligible music. For me, these
additions transformed a very good score to a great one. They gave the
music a deeper context, much as the restored cuts do for Copland's
Appalachian Spring. I would also give the palm to Schwarz's reading over
Hanson's. The New York Chamber Symphony plays better and with better tone
than the old Eastman-Rochester, and Schwarz draws crisper rhythms from his
players. The score contains a great nervous excitement and psychological
unease, closer to William Schuman than to Walter Piston's Apollonian
balance, but without the hysteria Schuman's music occasionally indulges.
I'll probably raise some eyebrows in both the Carter and the Barber camps
(but for different reasons) when I say that I think this score every bit
as good as Cave of the Heart. Occasionally, one gets a surprisingly close
echo of Forties' Copland (for example, in the section describing Theseus's
entry into the labyrinth), and Stravinsky's Apollo is never far away.
However, Carter operates at the level of his influences. He competes
successfully with them, particularly in an impressive fugue describing
Theseus's adventures in the Labyrinth and his fight with the Minotaur.
At any rate, the obvious echoes are about to disappear.
The two Frost songs - "Dust of Snow" and "The Rose Family" - come from a
group of three. For some reason, Carter's setting of "The Line Gang" isn't
included. They are exquisite miniatures, and both, interestingly enough,
show Carter's fascination with two musical tangents going on at once, even
in this small frame. The voice sings lovely, long melodies, while the
piano bubbles along in highly independent rhythm. Incidentally, the
complete set of Frost songs were at one time available on Unicorn LP RHS
353, performed on a splendid anthology of American music by Peter and
Meriel Dickinson.
The piano sonata is probably one of the most ambitious pieces Carter
ever wrote - which is saying something. There's a lot of Copland in it,
particularly in the piano sonorities, but, by the end of the work, you're
not thinking about Copland. More essentially, there's also a lot of
late Beethoven. Carter builds his first movement on the principle of
interruption - one idea constantly breaks in on another, as in the last
movement of the Ninth or throughout the Missa solemnis. The sonata opens
with a statement of grand chords (he marks the movement "maestoso").
Throughout the movement, these chords try to establish themselves, but give
way to nervous scurrying ("scorrevole," a favorite Carter marking) or long,
singing lines. The second movement, headed "andante," again begins with
Copland sounds and harmonies and song, but quickly begins to veer away in
its greater concern for polyphony and (once more) highly independent
rhythmic lines. A remarkable passage in unisons and octaves follows which
leads to a fugue bristling with cross-rhythms. Here, the independently
rhythmic lines generate other rhythms by their interaction. The fugue ends
haltingly, and gradually the andante singing returns, this time purged of
its Copland habits. The song morphs into another idea of maestoso chords,
which gradually peters out to a quiet finish. I may have made too much of
Copland in talking about this piece. Certainly, Carter's piano sonata
interests me far more than Copland's own, and one senses a new music about
to come to being.
As I've said, Schwarz's Minotaur outdoes Hanson's. DeGaetani and Kalish
have elegant fun with the Frost songs. Paul Jacobs, unfortunately,
disappoints in the piano sonata. It's hard to say what goes wrong. The
notes are there. He does a nice job of shaping the work. But it's all so
tasteful - something for the faculty sherry party. To me, this is a big,
bopping Romantic work, despite the surface idiom. Those opening chords
should ring out like a call to arms. The second movement fugue should
throw off sparks. Throughout Jacobs's performance, I couldn't shake the
running commentary in my head, almost all of it on the order of "This needs
more."
Since I've heard Nonesuch is about to disappear as a classical label (I do
hope alarmists have exaggerated its imminent demise), this is one CD you
shouldn't miss, if you love Classic Modern American music. You need to
move fast. The sound is quite good.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:30:47 -0500
From: Joel Hill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dohnanyi Symposium in Tallahassee
There is a Dohnanyi Symposium going on this week at Florida State
University. Check out the links below from The Tallahassee Democrat, our
local newspaper. Another link, www.tdo.com (Tallahassee Democrat Online)
for more information about the week's activities.
The Symposium appears to start Thursday, so if you can make it, come on
down to sunny Florida!
A couple of links are below, but I don't know how long they will work,
probably several days, but knowing our paper, dont' count on it.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/2529480.htm
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/2529479.htm
Joel Hill
Tallahassee, FL - USA
ALKAN Web Page: http://www.nettally.com/joelhill/alkan
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:56:37 -0500
From: Roger Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Are there any dear souls out there who can help me out? I am listening
>a lot to medieval and renaissance music these days but haven't got all the
>texts - and I am for sucker for the connection of music with words and want
>to know the exact words.
Are you looking for the original text, or English translations, or both?
Yes, Dunstable's "Veni sancte spiritus" is a marvellous piece. I have it
performed by the Orlando Consort.
Roger
(posting for the first time here)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:54:03 -0000
From: Christopher Rosevear <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Falla's "The Three-Cornered Hat"
Joseph Everett enthused about Manuel de Falla's 'The Three-Cornered Hat':
>Is there an excellent recording of this wonderful treasure?
I know of no version with the corrected cor anglais solo (it was recently
discovered that the odd missing step out of the cor anglais run in bar 4 of
figure 1 of the Miller's Dance was, as was long suspected by cor anglais
players but apparently never by conductors, a copyist's mistake.)
CR
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 18:03:59 -0500
From: Kim Patrick Clow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
Anyone on the list have Philip Pickett's version? I have seen it at Towers,
but would like some feedback before I make the purchase. Thanks
Kim Patrick Clow
[log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:43:31 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Handel's Eight Great Suites for Keyboard, Part 4
How about Murray Perahia's recording of the suites?
Peter Wisse
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:54:28 -0600
From: Kevin Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Music on the Web
I know that this is a glaring failure on my part, but I have only this
evening come into contact with the wonderful resource that is Dr. Len
Mullinger's Music on the Web site. I got to it by accident as I was
surfing the web for fun and typed in "Benjamin Britten" + "Biography" and
the splendid article from MOTW popped up. What a fabulous resourse, and I
can't believe that it has taken me this long, considering how long I have
been a subscriber to MCML, to take advantage of this wonderful source of
information. Thanks Len for this truly great labor of love.
Kevin Sutton
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:06:13 -0500
From: Peter Schenkman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carter - Early Works
What makes the Piano Sonata (circa 1947) an "early work" as opposed to
the 'Cello Sonata (circa 1948).....a later work, yes ...I know...one year.
They share many similiar traits...and not just that they're both very good,
strong works?
Peter Schenkman, Toronto, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:32:03 -0600
From: Bruce Alan Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Anglican Chant
Anglican Chant may be described as "harmonized recitative"; like Gregorian
chant, it can be used as an aid to meditation.
"Bruce Alan Wilson" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:26:43 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dohnanyi Symposium in Tallahassee
Just attended a performance by a local string trio of Dohnanyi's Serenade.
Delightful work! Heifetz, Primrose, and Piatigorsky thought enough of it
to record it. Very Brahmsian and very unusual in its structure.
Tonight I'm going to hear a recital by the composition students at Loyola
University. Want to know what the young folks are doing.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:16:01 +0000
From: Christopher Webber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
Dave Mepham writes:
>It was also good to see such an event well attended, although I can't help
>feeling that an event with Adams, Reich or Glass would be well attended
>whilst other 'contemporary' composers just as good or better wouldn't get
>half the audience.
Ignoring the bait of Dave's qualitative judgement, I believe other living
composers would, and do. The BBC weekends devoted to one single composer
are always very well attended, be they Martinu, Schnittke, Weill or Adams.
It's the success of such focussed events which prompts my thought that
the "modern sandwich" still favoured by saurian orchestral programmers
is precisely what spells death and doom to concert attendances generally.
"Beethoven - Glass - Brahms" is going to put the Glass fans off going, just
as surely as the Beethovenians.
When will they wake up to the fact that a substantial minority of
concertgoers actively prefer music written less than one hundred years ago,
have inflexible tastes, and get very hot under the collar if they have
Brahms forced down their throats by these sneaky promoters!
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.nashwan.demon.co.uk/zarzuela.htm
"ZARZUELA!"
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:53:37 -0500
From: Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: La Vie Interieure at Weill Recital Hall - February 2
"La Vie Interieure" - Recital of French Music at Carnegie Hall's Weill
Recital Hall - Featuring Soprano Patricia Kent and Pianist Roderick
Kettlewell.
Patricia Kent, soprano and Roderick Kettlewell, piano will present "La
Vie Interieure", a recital of French music of the nineteenth and twentieth
centuries at Carnegie Hall's Weill Recital Hall, located at West 57th
Street and 7th Avenue in Manhattan on Saturday, February 2 at 8:30 p.m.
At the urging of Pierre Vallet of the Metropolitan Opera, Ms. Kent began
this French art song project, which will culminate in a CD recording.
Selections to be performed in the concert are "La courte paille" and "Trois
poemes de Louise de Vilmorin" by Francis Poulenc, "Ariettes oubliees" by
Debussy, selected songs by Albert Roussel and Henri Duparc and the Ravel
Sonatine for piano.
Tickets for this concert are $10 and can be ordered by phone through
CarnegieCharge, 8 AM to 8 PM, 7 days a week, at (212) 247-7800. The Box
Office, located at the corner of 57th Street and 7th Avenue, is open Monday
through Saturday, 11 AM to 6 PM, and Sunday 12 PM to 6 PM. Tickets can
also be ordered online through the Calendar of Events at Carnegie Hall's
website - http://www.carnegiehall.org/intro.jsp.
Patricia Kent will also be featured as soprano soloist in the Hadyn "Nelson
Mass" on Sunday, February 3 at the Church of the Resurrection, 119 E. 74th
Street, just east of Park Avenue, at 11:00 a.m. She will also present a
recital on Wednesday night February 6 at 7 pm at the same location. That
recital will feature "Frauenliebe und Leben" and songs by Duparc, Purcell
and Gershwin. The concerts will be part of the Church of the
Resurrection's Consecration Festival.
Ms. Kent has been a featured soloist with many orchestras in the mid
United States, including the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, the Minnesota
Orchestra and the Rochester (MN) Symphony. In New York, she sang with the
Amato and Manhattan opera companies. In 2000, she made her European debut
singing the soprano solos in Mendelssohn's "Elijah" in London under
conductor Benjamin Pope. Patricia has released a compact disc recording
of songs composed by Fanny and Felix Mendelssohn.
Pianist-conductor Roderick Kettlewell studied in England at the Guildhall
School of Music and the Britten-Pears School, and in New York at the
Juilliard School. He has also been a featured artist with the St. Paul
Chamber Orchestra and the Minnesota Orchestra.
For more information about Patricia Kent, please contact Jeffrey James
Arts Consulting at 516-797-9166 or [log in to unmask]
Jeffrey James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:34:39 -0500
From: William Hong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: L'Orfeo
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
>Anyone on the list have Philip Pickett's version? I have seen it at Towers,
>but would like some feedback before I make the purchase. Thanks
I've got some older recordings of "L'Orfeo" (the hoary Harnoncourt from the
late 60s and the smoother Juergens from the early 70s), and the mid-80s EMI
recording with London Baroque and Chiaroscuro, along with Pickett's.
Of the bunch, I tend to listen to Pickett more than any other. The Pickett
came out about a decade ago, among the spate of Monteverdi recordings in
observance of the 350th anniversary of his death. This version has benefit
of modern scholarship--Pickett wrote the album notes himself and they are
quite illuminating; he even considers his performance in the context of
the original venue at the palace in Mantua. I also find that his sense of
instrumental color fits my preferences (e.g., more generous inclusion of
percussion) more than the older versions. Some of his soloists may not
have the drawing power of a Kirby, a Nigel Rogers, or especially a Cathy
Berberian (in the Harnoncourt), but overall it's a well balanced group.
And Catherine Bott and John Mark Ainsley (among others) aren't exactly
chopped liver...
I've not heard Jacob's version, nor the Garrido or Vartolo mentioned
earlier. Since I do have Garrido's recording of "Il ritorno d'Ulisse in
Patria", his L'Orfeo might be my choice for a more recent alternative,
albeit without any direct experience.
Bill H.
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:14:40 -0800
From: Janos Gereben <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New NEA Chairman Dies
The AP says the new NEA chairman, Michael Hammond, 69, died - no further
information at this time. A conductor and composer, Hammond was dean of
the School of Music at Rice University in Houston.
Janos Gereben/SF
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:02:09 +0000
From: John Foss <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Organ Music
Donald Satz's romantic reaction to organ music on the tropical island of
his dreams struck a chord - why did I become obsessed with the organ? I
can trace it back to a cinema organ broadcast in 1948 when I was 6 years
old. I was sitting glued to the radio when whoever it was broadcasting
that morning at 10 am - Quentin Maclean? Gerald Shaw? - was rudely
interrupted by our nanny (a pianist of no mean accomplishment) saying
"turn that freadful music off." This must have been responsible for my
total devotion to the instrument for my lifetime. When I moved to Greece
Ralph Downes said to me "You're not going to find many organs there."
He was, virtually, right - except that the town in which I live has one
of the few large Evangelical Churches (maybe the only large Evangelical
Church) in Greece with a two manual tracke action organ - 30 stops - by
Kleiss. Perhaps someone else might like to reveal what triggered off
their interest in music, and particularly a specific musical form or
instrument!
John Foss
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:53:31 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Programming Old and Young
Christopher Rosevear <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I have to devise a programme for the little Winchfield Festival
>(www.winchfield.org) in June which combines and contrasts the old and the
>young; so I am soliciting this list's eminent opinions for fresh ideas!
Humphrey Searle wrote a lovely set of Cat Variations for clarinet & piano
(the theme is Prokofieff's; & the variations are inspired by Old Possum's
Book of Practical Cats) towards the end of his life & a more fearsomely
modern Suite for the same instruments bang in the middle of his career.
He also wrote a wonderful Piano Sonata (after the Liszt b minor); but
that doesn't quite fit into your young/old brief.
Alan Hovhaness wrote some wonderful piano miniatures towards the end of
his musical career, including the rather popular Fred the Cat piano sonata:
the Koch collections of his piano music span 50 years of composition, which
give you plenty of room to create before/after combinations... although
with Hovhaness, telling the difference between early & late can be
difficult. The PRChinese master DING Shande is similar; but whether you'll
be able to find THESE scores is somewhat speculative....
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:15:35 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Serial Music
In a German music encyclopedia I found the following sentence (translated
by me):
"As an extreme result of progressive organizing of musical material
Serial Music became its exact opposite because the audible sound
result of totally determined music cannot be distinguished from music
which is totally undetermined."
I don't know exactly what this sentence means and if it is true. I
understand that the aim of Serial Music (at least in its beginning says the
article) was to totally determine the musical material (how?). This aim to
control the whole process paradoxically resulted in music that sounded like
music totally out of control (why?).
So: Do I understand the sentence correctly? And: is it true?
Robert
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:06:30 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tsai = John Cage + 111'27"
Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Didn't Andy Warhol make several movies like this? I recall something about
>the Empire State Building and one of someone sleeping.
Probably stretching the definitions of this list, but the Factory (Warhol's
almost infamous studio) produced a whole slew of this maximal minimalist
works, including Empire (24 hours - & i MEAN 24 hours... not a day
timelapsed into a few minutes - of images of the Empire State Building)
& the much shorter (only 8 hours long) Sleep, which was once described by
its auteur as the greatest audience participation film of all time. As per
the Warhol style, the artist had very little physical involvement in these
moving art works (much of the footage was supervised - one can hardly use
the expression directed for this stuff - by Paul Morrissey, always assuming
that there was any supervision at all; which was not always the case...
some personal still lifes literally involved having the subject switch on
the camera & sit in front of it until the film cannister emptied); & the
results inevitably suggest the somewhat better known Yoko Ono on a serious
valium overdose.
Is there a musical point to all this?
(Not in the films themselves: they either have ambient soundtracks; or are
silent)
Perhaps i the sense that these works pretty much demonstrate by absurdum
the ultimate irrelevancy of artistic ideas. The Warhol films - if you can
usefully call them that - are pretty much the ultimate expression of a
vaguely plausible artistic ideal in the same way the nuttier execesses of
John Cage are; & makes you suspect that the only thing that really matters
in art is how the idea - ANY idea - is realised. Is this art worthwhile
because the idea is interesting or irrelevant because the works themselves
basically aren't?; & should you ever use the intellectual prop of the idea
to support works which basically have lost their popular voice?....
... & yes: i DID present some of Warhol's film studies, many years ago; as
well as kindred artists like Ono, Snow, le Grice, Dunkley-Smith, Cantrill &
Winkler....
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:43:18 +0100
From: Andres Ramos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Web Design for Musicians
Hello, I am looking for web designers which specialize in web solutions
for musicians. For the moment I have only found www.musicalwebs.com
Can anyone help me out? Thanks
Andres Ramos
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:11:32 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
*I am for sucker for the connection of music with words and want to know
the exact words.* When Andrew Parrott and Hugh Keyte were researching for
the New
Oxford Book of Carols, they were asked by a Professor why they wanted,
as near as possible, the original sounds and words. "Because they were
written to go with the music" they said. Wonderful book. Seven versions
of "While shepherds Watched, seven centuries and across the world.
Doris<><
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:07:56 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
Roger Curtis wrote:
>Are you looking for the original text, or English translations, or both?
Both would be fine. To only have the English translation doesn't help when
following the voices, to only have the original text doesn't help because
you don't know which meaning the pieces transport.
>Yes, Dunstable's "Veni sancte spiritus" is a marvellous piece. I have it
>performed by the Orlando Consort.
My version is by Pomerium.
>Roger (posting for the first time here)
And I hope not for the last time.
Robert
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:01:58 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Concerning the influence of Chant on more recent music, I've always thought
that 20th century minimalism owed much to Chant - composers such as Gorecki
and Glass.
Don Satz
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:08:18 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Don Satz wrote:
>It is very true that many folks associate organ music with religious
>proceedings.
That was not my point, although I associate Gregorian chant very much with
religion, I have never done so with organ music. When I wrote I like organ
music when it is played in church, I should have written, when played in a
church, I need the reflection from the walls, and the feeling of the deep
notes.
Peter [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:07:34 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Not chant, precisely, but we use music known as the "Barsham" Service with
music by Martin Shaw included. If you are interested, take a look at
http://www.francishome.freeserve.co.uk
and
http://www.suffolkchurches.co.uk
look up Barsham. You'll see the wonderfull lattice East window-yes, with
St. Milfred there as well.
Doris<><
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:10:38 -0800
From: Jon Gallant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
In a thread on the length of time one can bear to listen to chant, Jim
Tobin asked:
I wonder if it is heard in a large church, the acoustic delay might even
create something akin to polyphony?
This raises a fascinating further question. Could it be that echo sounds
of this sort in the medieval cathedrals is what SUGGESTED the idea of
polyphony to church musicians?
The idea appeals to me, for it would link the whole development of
western music to a prior, physical characteristic of architecture and
medieval culture. Unfortunately for the hypothesis, my understanding is
that two voice organum appeared around the 10th century, which would seem
to predate the Romanesque cathedrals and thus refute the hypothesis. But
maybe specialists have better information.
Jon Gallant ([log in to unmask])
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:01:58 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Robert Peters wrote:
>How long can you listen to Gregorian Chant before you get impatient
>and nervous?
If you go abouit instilling it, but not pushsing too hard, rather than
listening, it shouldn't pose a problem
Denis Fodor
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:20:28 +0100
From: Philip Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Handel's Eight Great Suites for Keyboard, Part 4
Peter Wisse wrote:
>How about Murray Perahia's recording of the suites?
And while we're at it may I put in a good word for Kenneth Gilbert's
wonderful set?
Philip
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:57:28 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Handel's Eight Great Suites for Keyboard, Part 4
Peter Wisse asks:
>How about Murray Perahia's recording of the suites?
Perahia only has a recording of three of the Great Suites: HWV 427, 428,
and 430. It's a Sony issue also having the HWV 435 Chaconne and seven
sonatas by Domenico Scarlatti.
In my reviews up till now, I have covered Perahia's HWV 427 and 428.
His HWV 430 will be reviewed in Part 5. At the end of Part 5, I will
provide my overall assessment of his performances of the three suites,
the Chaconne, and the Scarlatti works. I can already relate that the
assessment will not be favorable. Perahia's Bach is a much better
proposition than his Handel. In Bach, Perahia pretty well stays
within the Bach idiom; in Handel and Scarlatti, he often strays into
a romanticized and pianistic mode which reminds me of his Chopin
performances. It is certainly true that Perahia's Handel/Scarlatti disc
received many glowing reviews, but I do look for some semblance of a
composer's soundworld. In the recording at hand, Perahia isn't there.
Don Satz
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:50:06 -0500
From: Arri Bachrach <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mike Leghorn writes:
>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>to music. That's the problem. Good prose is much more impressive to
>people than listening ability.
thats been my observation for years regarding the NY Times critics
AB
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:07:30 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mike Leghorn writes:
>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>to music.
Mike's statement leads me to the question of what qualities the reviewer
displays which tell the reader that he/she is good at listening to music.
Or is it just subjective preference?
Don Satz
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:22:19 -0500
From: Mimi Ezust <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mike Leghorn wrote:
>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>to music. That's the problem. Good prose is much more impressive to
>people than listening ability.
Which reviewers are you talking about?
Mimi
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 04:43:17 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Santu De Silva <[log in to unmask]>:
>I could go to someone I know, and whose opinion I trust. But I know nobody
>(personally) whose opinion I trust in this department. So I must needs go
>to one whom I do *not* know, but of whom *it is said*, his/her opinion is
>trustworthy. That's what credentials are.
Credentials, like credit cards, are financial devices. They allow you
to have a fund in an institutional account. If, being involved in a
polemique, you suddenly have no more arguments, you may extend a check:
"Sir, I'm PhD, so I win this discussion temporarily. Next week I'll
provide you the reasons". Of course: some checks may have no funds,
some credit card may be stolen... However, credit or not, a reviewer
must always pay cash.
>However, here's an interesting issue: there is a body of belief that the
>whole "original instrument" phenomenon is a fiction. These people argue
>that the 'reverse engineering' of Stradivarius violins, etc to their
>pre-modernized state is a disaster, and that the sounds these instruments
>make have no relation to their original sound. Thus, they claim, no one
>really knows what baroque violins sounded like, so let's give it up.
This is not so simple. There's a "law of pendulum", by which many people
now consider the whole phenomenon of historical performances a fiction,
just as many others before considered it the ultimate truth, regardless who
is the performer or how does he actually plays. However, in historical
performances, it seems legitimate to suppose that there's an amount of
features that can be known with a certain degree of precision, and other
that simply can't (not exactly at least). There are still discussions
about the treatment of the wood and even the composition and effects of the
glue with which Stradivarius violins were assembled, so, how can we reverse
them really to their pre-modernized state?. Every luthier knows that a
string instrument is almost an organic entity, rather than an assemblage
of woods. Any of them would find easier to reverse my granny to his teen
years rather than reconstruct a Stradivarius as it was at the times of old
Antonio. I am of this opinion. There are other features no less obscure.
Pitch, for example. Gardiner, in his recording of "L'Orfeo" (Archiv 1987,
2 CDs), took a pitch a whole tone higher than a' = 440 Hz, mainly based on
practical grounds: that was the best tessitura for Anthony Rolfe-Johnson,
who played the role of Orfeo. However, in the recording notes (page 18),
he writes:
"The general consensus about pitch standards in Monteverdi's Mantua
is that it was higher than standard modern pitch (a = 440 Hz); by
exactly how much no one has yet established conclusively".
This is a bit naive, I suppose. One may suspect that Mantua's tuning at
1607 was surely different than ours, but I doubt seriously that a precise
tuning can ever be definitively settled. Better: I'm skeptical, (or
"prudently ignorant", as you like it) I mean: I suspend my judgement
until somebody demonstrates me that this actually *can* be settled. In
order to know the real figures, we should need an oscillating body from
that place and time that haven't suffered *any* kind of alteration in its
chemical-physical structure, and haven't lose the slightest amount of mass
in 400 years!!!. It's obvious that the action of time on wood, metals,
any material, should necessarily affect the tuning of strings, tubes, etc.,
in a considerable amount. Of course, it should also affect the timbre of
any resonator as violin or keyboard boxes (in this case, there's another
additional distorting factor: restorations). But the real matter here is:
what do we care?. We know for sure that there wasn't a universal tuning
pattern at baroque Europe, so, why should us adapt to a supposed pattern
whose influence area was no more than a few square miles and that probably
changed 40 or 50 years later?. What loses Orfeo singing at a' = 439 Hz?.
Gardiner's solution (adapting the general pitch to singer's best tessitura)
seems more honest (and historically more probable) than those provided by
the sellers of time machines. The same applies to instrumental timbres:
why do we need the "exact" timbre of a newborn Stradivarius for a good
historical performance?. Don't they sound good enough today?. There
wasn't any 300 year old instrument still playing at, say, 1750?. I'm
going a little more out of topic with this but, what the hell... A good
friend of mine said once that all the HIP stuff was very exciting, unless
we want to take it as a reconstruction of any past time. Simply, we can't
reconstruct the baroque listener, so there always will be a lacking term
at the equation. I love historical performances: I love their sound, the
different views of a known score, etc. But I tend to hear it always as
an entirely new stuff, rather than the resurrection of old forgotten
practices. By this I don't mean that all this is "a fiction", but my most
enthusiastic commentary about the archeological correctness doesn't go
beyond: "sounds very probable, who knows?". There's an additional charm:
HIP practices allowed to sell new versions of known music as if it was new.
That's very attractive, not only for the recording companies. People
renewed his baroque discography as if they never bought a single recording
of that repertoire. It's just like when our girlfriends buy new underwear
or change their hair colour: for a moment we have the fantasy that they
are different women.
>Meanwhile, in the east, violins are still played with gut strings, with the
>shallow angled necks, and played underhand, with the instrument rested on
>the chest. Look at any number of Indian violinists.
I don't see your point. So what?. Who may say if that's the original
style of playing that indian violinists used 3000 years before?. Are you
sure that many of them are not imitating what they see at American country
movies?. Are you sure that Ravi Shankar plays the sitar just exactly as
his ancestors?.
>One wonders whether the opinion of someone whose entire information base
>is confined to western music really has a right to an opinion vis-a-vis
>the sound of a Baroque violin, and whether it is possible to reconstruct
>it. And if he or she has a right to such, whether it's worth anything.
I'm afraid I don't understand this. I would dare to ask why not?.
A baroque violin is nearer to a japanese "Yamaha" violin than to the
traditional egyptian fiddle, believe me.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:03:05 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mike Leghorn writes:
>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>to music. That's the problem. Good prose is much more impressive to
>people than listening ability.
>thats been my observation for years regarding the NY Times critics
I cannot free myself of the feeling that some of the NY Times critics don't
like music very much. That can't be right, can it? I mean, why would they
be music critics if they didn't like music? But consider a recent review
by Bernard Holland, of a NYPhil concert (i believe) featuring a short piece
by Sibelius, a new piece bt Birtwhistle and Beethoven's Seventh Symphony.
ANd Holland concludes his review by saying that the concert had a
psychiatric flavor- an obsessive compulsive on each end, depression in the
middle. Critics are not expected to be uncritical fans of what they hear,
but they shouldn't patronize the music.
Bernard Chasan
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:41:23 +0100
From: Mats Norrman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mimi Ezust wrote:
>Mike Leghorn wrote:
>
>>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>>to music. That's the problem. Good prose is much more impressive to
>>people than listening ability.
>
>Which reviewers are you talking about?
Perhaps sheepheaded reviewers who belive in the cosmic order thier uni
degree will automatically bring, who don't themselves listen to criticism
(and likely not music I belive), and would never dare to read a book like
Friedemann Schulz von Thuns books to learn how to really give a
listener/reader a shoot!
I of course belong to those who have studied his books so well that I
could personifiate the medieval saying "to know just one book". Therefore
my reviews are also so excellent and convincing. *satanic grins*
Mats Norrman
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:04:02 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mimi Ezust ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Mike Leghorn wrote:
>
>>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>>to music. That's the problem. Good prose is much more impressive to
>>people than listening ability.
>
>Which reviewers are you talking about?
Richard Osborne? Although I think I'd call his prose purple rather than
good...:-)
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:21:08 -0500
From: Santu De Silva <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Pablo Massa writes:
>... chemical-physical structure, and haven't lose the slightest amount
>of mass in 400 years!!!. It's obvious that the action of time on wood,
>metals, any material, should necessarily affect the tuning of strings,
>tubes, etc., in a considerable amount. Of course, it should also affect
>the timbre of any resonator as violin or keyboard boxes (in this case,
>there's another additional distorting factor: restorations). ...
I didn't mean to get into this, and frankly, I'm not an expert. But . . .
* There are violins being played out in the world that are, in fact,
unmodified Baroque-era instruments. They are, I believe, imitations of
European (even Cremona) violins, and some may even be Cremona violins.
Again, I don't know for certain. But I have heard the claim that, in fact,
no Cremona violins survived unmodified, and therefore the legendary sound
of a Baroque violin is forever lost. In other words, since the "violin
establishment," to coin a phrase, is unaware of unmodified Cremona violins
(or at least pedigreed Cremona violins) the question is closed.
* This is all neither here nor there. As you point out, any little thing
can change the sound of a violin. In fact, the sound of a violin probably
changes over time with no interference whatsoever. The question is, given
the entire spectrum of hypothetical sounds that Baroque violins made when
the world was young, is it too much to expect that 'reverse-engineered'
violins make sounds somewhere within that spectrum? I am willing to believe
that they do, and so evidently do many others!
>>Meanwhile, in the east, violins are still played with gut strings, with the
>>shallow angled necks, and played underhand, with the instrument rested on
>>the chest. Look at any number of Indian violinists.
>
>I don't see your point. So what?. Who may say if that's the original
>style of playing that indian violinists used 3000 years before?
The violin came to India through Europe in the (I believe) late 17 century,
so we're talking a mere 300 years. Secondly, there's no need to speculate:
we can simply ask them. "Is this how the instrument was played? Was your
violin reverse-engineered?" Don't forget that Indians are serious
musicians, passionate about keeping records, and not easily influenced by
the Authentic Instrument Lobby. And much less likely to do violence to a
violin.
I merely ask: has this store of information been tapped?
Arch
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:39:25 -0800
From: John Smyth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mike Leghorn writes:
>>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>>to music.
And Don responds:
>Mike's statement leads me to the question of what qualities the reviewer
>displays which tell the reader that he/she is good at listening to music.
>Or is it just subjective preference?
Technically, (in a frictionless world), the subjective tastes of the
critic can't be faulted. Objective observations are another story:
Is the critic familiar w/ the composer's life and times? Can the critic
make a distinction between his own tastes and the tastes at the time of
a composition? Can the critic make a distinction between what a composer
*says* about his tastes/influences as opposed to his *true*
tastes/influences? Does the practical experience of
composer/instrumentalist make for a better critic?
Since Don asked, I'm going to use his Kyoko Tabe/Debussy review and apply
my questions. (And it's more fun than critiquing myself!)
Is the critic familiar w/ the composer's life and times?
Don writes:
>...(Kyoko) mistakes Debussy for Chopin in the first Arabesque,....
Debussy revered Chopin. So certainly Kyoko's is a valid performance of
such an early work? Shouldn't your observation be, "Kyoko brings out the
Chopinesque qualities in Debussy, though this reviewer doesn't like it?"
Can the critic make a distinction between what a composer *says* about his
tastes and influences as opposed to what his *true* tastes/influences
actually are?
>Kyoko Tabe is another in a long line of artists who take the innovation
>out of Debussy's music and dish out a continuous stream of syrup. Is it
>beautiful music-making? Most certainly, but Debussy offers much more than
>traditional beauty.
>
>These elements of Tabe's playing and other unfavorable traits are evident
>throughout the disc.
Ostensibly, Debussy distanced himself from much of his early output
because these pieces revealed all to clearly the composers whom he
adored--Tchaikovsky, Balakirev, and Borodin--yet I've always felt Debussy's
roots were closer to the Romantics than, say, Ravel--even in D's late
works. Liszt hovers over Images, and though Debussy poked fun at Wagner,
the later composer's soundworld haunts pieces as late as Le Martyre. I'm
not faulting your opinion, but *is* it an opinion? I don't think Kyoko's
"syrupy" take can be called an "unfavorable" trait.
Does the practical experience of composer/instrumentalist make for a better
critic?
>Tabe neglects the modern rhythmic patterns and surprises in Debussy's
>music while prioritizing over-rich sonorities and emotional gushing.She's
>lethargic in the Reverie, and over-pedals at every turn in every work.
>The biggest turn-off concerns Estampes. The disc promotes this work as
>the turning point for Debussy's piano music as he leaves the old behind
>and ventures into new musical lands.
Pagodes is one of my favorite pieces to play. One of the advantages of
basing the melody almost entirely on the pentatonic scale is that the
player *can* use the pedal liberally because of the absence of half-steps.
Not only that, these pieces were written after Debussy had the opportunity
to hear the gamelan at the Paris Exhibition of 1889. The gamelan by it's
very nature blurs harmonies. So are the observations, "too much pedal" and
"gushing," subjective preferences or objective critical misunderstandings?
John Smyth
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:43:38 -0500
From: Roger Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Both would be fine. To only have the English translation doesn't help when
>following the voices, to only have the original text doesn't help because
>you don't know which meaning the pieces transport.
This is the only piece on your list that I was able to find in my
collection. Text and translation from the booklet accompanying the CD,
Ockeghem: Missa Prolationum & Marian Motets, Hilliard Ensemble, EMI CDC 7
49798 2. I don't know whether this is the original text or the "altered
version" that you referred to.
Although I would agree that knowledge of the text and meaning add to our
appreciation of vocal music, the tapestry of sound created by composers
such as Ockeghem can also perhaps stand on its own.
Intemerata Dei mater
Intemerata Dei mater, generosa puella, milia carminibus quam stipant
agmina divum, respice nos tantum, si quid iubilando meremur. Tu scis,
virgo decens, quanti discrimen agatur exulibus passimque quibus
iactemur arenis
Nec sine te manet ulla quies, spes nulla laboris; nulla salus patrie,
domus aut potiunda parentis, cui, regina, praees: dispensans omnia
laeto suscipis ore pios dulci quos nectare potas, et facis assiduos
epulis accumbere sacris.
Aspiciat facito miseros pietatis ocello Filius: ipsa potes. Fessos
hinc arripe sursum diva, virga manu, tutos et in arce locato.
Undefiled mother of God, noble maiden, around whom thousands of the
heavenly host throng with their songs, pray look down on us, if in
our joyful praise we earn any merit You know, beauteous maiden, how
dreadful is the risk run by exiles on the various shores onto which
we are cast
No peace remains without you, no hope of work; no safety for our
country, nor parental home for our possessions, of which you, 0 Queen,
are at the head: watching over all things, you lift up the righteous
with a glad smile, feed them with your sweet nectar, and seat them
in constant attendance at the sacred feast
We beseech you to make your Son look upon us compassionately: this
is within your power. Snatch us up away from here with your godly
hand, maiden, weary as we are, and set us down in a place of
safekeeping.
As a newcomer, I'm not sure whether information like this is better
communicated on or off list. Perhaps someone would advise me.
Roger
[Up to you, but I see no problem at all with this kind of post. -Dave]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:03:31 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
Doris Howe ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>When Andrew Parrott and Hugh Keyte were researching for the New Oxford
>Book of Carols, they were asked by a Professor why they wanted, as near
>as possible, the original sounds and words. "Because they were written to
>go with the music" they said. Wonderful book. Seven versions of "While
>shepherds Watched, seven centuries and across the world.
I only have one and there are certianly at least two, but Andrew Parratt's
The Carol Album (I have vol. II) is wonderful. Vol. II has a version of
While Shepherds....
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:02:15 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Donald Satz ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Concerning the influence of Chant on more recent music, I've always thought
>that 20th century minimalism owed much to Chant - composers such as Gorecki
>and Glass.
Hmmm, Glass? I'd have said that the East (India in particular), Africa and
the gamelan orchestras of Java and Bali had been the biggest influence on
Riley, Reich and Glass. Well, actually I believe the single biggest
influence was LaMonte Young...:-)
I'd certainly agree that chant had an influence on the "holy minimalists"
Pa"rt, Taverner and Gorecki, though.
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:57:46 -0000
From: Ian Crisp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Don:
>Concerning the influence of Chant on more recent music, I've always thought
>that 20th century minimalism owed much to Chant - composers such as Gorecki
>and Glass.
Has anyone mentioned Jimmy MacMillan? No?
OK then, I'll do it:
James MacMillan.
Ian Crisp
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:57:02 -0800
From: Todd Michel McComb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Jon Gallant writes:
>The idea appeals to me, for it would link the whole development of
>western music to a prior, physical characteristic of architecture and
>medieval culture. Unfortunately for the hypothesis, my understanding
>is that two voice organum appeared around the 10th century, which would
>seem to predate the Romanesque cathedrals and thus refute the hypothesis.
>But maybe specialists have better information.
It is seriously conjectured that the pace and rhythm of Notre Dame
polyphony was strongly conditioned by resonance. The idea that polyphony
arose as a reaction to resonance, rather than something akin to a trope
is, I think, untenable.
Todd McComb
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:56:35 -0500
From: Walter Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Jon Gallant wrote:
>Tobin asked:
>
>>I wonder if it is heard in a large church, the acoustic delay might even
>>create something akin to polyphony?
>
>This raises a fascinating further question. Could it be that echo sounds
>of this sort in the medieval cathedrals is what SUGGESTED the idea of
>polyphony to church musicians?
When I toured Europe on five dollars a day in 1961, one stop was
Pisa, where I discovered that the cathedral's baptistry was of greater
architectural interest than the leaning campanile (which was after all
only an accident). The baptistery is indeed beautiful, inside and out,
and our guide demonstrated its accoustical properties by singing successive
notes which in that chamber echoed into chords. It was magnificent.
Walter Meyer
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:54:03 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Ed Zubrow <[log in to unmask]>:
>I think it would be interesting to hear comments on other ways in which
>later music uses and adapts chant. Any takers?
Well, I don't really know about that, although many people who've never
heard a note would doubtless recognise at least one plainchant - the Dies
Irae - from its multifarious uses by composers ranging from Berlioz to
Rachmaninov (who seems to have been particularly keen on it).
However, the ting I did want to bring to the party was something which
I actually took part in over 30 years ago, the one time I've been in the
choir for a performance of Bach's B minor Mass.
I don't believe I've ever heard it done before or since, but before the
Credo the conductor had the men's voices sing a (the?) plainchant "Credo
in unum deum" which is IIRC used in modified form for the long-breathed
setting of the same words (e.g. the tenor line at the opening of the
movement).
Anyone else ever heard (of) anything like this?
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:57:35 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Robert Peters puts the cat among the pigeons:
>In a German music encyclopedia I found the following sentence (translated
>by me):
>
>"As an extreme result of progressive organizing of musical material
>Serial Music became its exact opposite because the audible sound
>result of totally determined music cannot be distinguished from music
>which is totally undetermined."
>
>I don't know exactly what this sentence means and if it is true. I
>understand that the aim of Serial Music (at least in its
>beginning says the
>article) was to totally determine the musical material (how?).
No, it wasn't that. It was to give some sort of order to extremely
chromatic music. The classical forms of composition depended on
establishing a key or tonal center. You perceived the parts when the
music modulated. As music in the 19th century modulated more and more
frequently, more and more ingenuity had to be applied to keep the "sense"
of these forms. The alternative was to abandon classical forms, as Liszt
and Wagner did. What then could provide order? Schoenberg proposed this
methodology. There is such a thing as total serialism, but (1) it came
later, somewhere around the Fifties I think (I could be wrong) and (2) it
did not totally determine a piece. It merely extended serial methodology
(which manipulated a series of pitches) to rhythms, tempi, dynamics, and
instrumentation. To take an extremely simple-minded example, consider the
following dynamic series (f, p, mp, mf, pp). Like all series, it has a
retrograde and an inverse (or several inverses, depending on how you want
to derive them). Even so, one can easily see that the musical content is
not totally determined by the procedures. If nothing else, one has to
come up with, out of one's own head, the basic material. One also has to
determine, just as in non-serial music, *how* and *when* to apply these
elements.
>This aim to control the whole process paradoxically resulted in music
>that sounded like music totally out of control (why?).
Well, *sounding* totally out of control is entirely subjective. I know
quite a few people to whom it sounds rather rigorously *in* control. No
question that many and probably most people find it difficult. But "out of
control" as a characterization has been applied to a lot of music over the
past 200 years. I would guess that most people don't "get" it yet. I'm
sure that many people could care less whether they got it or not. However,
it's an open question whether the fault lies in the music or in ourselves.
>So: Do I understand the sentence correctly? And: is it true?
Yes. No.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:12:27 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Robert Peters ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>In a German music encyclopedia I found the following sentence (translated
>by me):
>
>"As an extreme result of progressive organizing of musical material
>Serial Music became its exact opposite because the audible sound
>result of totally determined music cannot be distinguished from music
>which is totally undetermined."
>
>I don't know exactly what this sentence means and if it is true. I
>understand that the aim of Serial Music (at least in its beginning says the
>article) was to totally determine the musical material (how?).
Yes. Total Serialism, was a 1950s thing insipried IIRC by Messiaen's
Etudes de valeur et d'intensitie (excuse the spelling).
The idea was not simply to control the pitch of each not via a serial
mechanism, but also the timbre, duration, dynamic level etc.. taken up
mainly by the so-called Darmstadt School Boulez, Stockhausen and Nono.
(And given up after not too long as well).
>This aim to control the whole process paradoxically resulted in music that
>sounded like music totally out of control (why?).
Well, this is, of course, a value judgement. Without opening up a can or
worms which has been at least partially closed for a while now, I'd point
out that evcen educated music lovers cannot agree what music *is* and what
is music: many on this very list would deny that the three composers I
named in my past para produced anything that they'd consider music at all.
>So: Do I understand the sentence correctly? And: is it true?
You do and I submit that it isn't. As evidence I submit the following
anecdote: in 1999 I was in England visiting family and friends. As I got
into my rented car after visiting my middle daughter, the radio (naturally)
tuned to Radio 3 I found myself in the middle of an obviously 1950s or
1960s fairly agressively avant-garde piece.
After a few minutes listening I was raszonably confident (indeed would have
taken a small bet) that I was listening to Stockhauseen's Zeitmesse, a work
which I believe is from Karlheinz's totally-serial period (if not it's
bloody close) and which I had not heard in perhaps 30 years. And indeed
it proved to be that very piece.
My question, then is simply this: if this had been indistinguishable from
random noise, how could I have recognised it?
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:22:51 -0800
From: Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>In a German music encyclopedia I found the following sentence (translated
>by me):
>
>"As an extreme result of progressive organizing of musical material
>Serial Music became its exact opposite because the audible sound
>result of totally determined music cannot be distinguished from music
>which is totally undetermined." ...
>
>So: Do I understand the sentence correctly? And: is it true?
You seem to, and, as for it being true, yes, it often is, hence its
alienation of many listeners. In other words, because there is a system
to it, it isn't actually musical chaos, it just sounds that way. But a
distinction needs to be made between serial works and atonality, as not
all serial works are atonal, and not all atonal works are serial. Still,
when one thinks of serialism, one usually thinks of atonality, and, in my
experience, even the tonal serial works tend to have an aimlessness about
them. Not wishing to reopen the can of worms from a recent thread from
which I have long since withdrawn, I'll leave it at that.
Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:42:29 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
This is almost exactly what Xenakis thought of total serialism and he was
right. Hence his use of stochastic methods - and his very successful
artistic results.
The only quibble I have with this quotation is that according to it, it was
the "original" serialism that aimed at total determination. Quite to the
contrary, it wasn't until the total serialism in the early 1950s that such
total determinism was actually achieved - by serializing all the parameters
of a musical work.
Of course a work adhering to the principles of total serialism doesn't
sound organized, because too many parameters are determined in advance and
the listener can't follow all of them. That, however, is not a problem,
because serialism of any kind is just a TECHNIQUE, a way of organizing the
musical material, and not a style or a form, and few composers want the
listener to follow their technique. A few completely misguided theorists
- above all, Lehrdahl and Jackendoff - were of different opinion; see their
absurdly nonsensical article on "Le marteau sans maitre".
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:00:01 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dohnanyi Symposium in Tallahassee
Steve Schwartz ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Just attended a performance by a local string trio of Dohnanyi's Serenade.
>Delightful work! Heifetz, Primrose, and Piatigorsky thought enough of it
>to record it. Very Brahmsian and very unusual in its structure.
I think it's one of those works which needs a really good performance to
convince. I've heard it live at least twice, once very good and once
(memorably) fairly mediocre.
The latter made the debt to Brahms more than obvious and more than a
little tedious. I don't know the HPP performance (and rarely care much
for Heifetz) but there's a performance by Perlman Zuckerman and Harrell
(c/w Beethoven's Serenade Op.8) which is well worth the price of admission
(mind you I only have this on LP, dunno if there's a CD).
>Tonight I'm going to hear a recital by the composition students at Loyola
>University. Want to know what the young folks are doing.
Good on ya. The University of Victoria has a composition competition and
subseqent concert every year, which I try to get to if I can. Over the
years I've heard some very fine music indeed (and, of course, some comlete
garbage).
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:56:11 -0500
From: Margaret Mikulska <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
Christopher Webber wrote:
>Ignoring the bait of Dave's qualitative judgement, I believe other living
>composers would, and do. The BBC weekends devoted to one single composer
>are always very well attended, be they Martinu, Schnittke, Weill or Adams.
>
>It's the success of such focussed events which prompts my thought that
>the "modern sandwich" still favoured by saurian orchestral programmers
>is precisely what spells death and doom to concert attendances generally.
>"Beethoven - Glass - Brahms" is going to put the Glass fans off going, just
>as surely as the Beethovenians.
Exactly. I skip such concerts, because it's too much hassle and too
expensive to drive a couple of hours to hear a 15-min. new work (which I
would love to hear) but sit through a warhorse or two I don't necessarily
want to hear right now - once every few years will do just fine.
>When will they wake up to the fact that a substantial minority of
>concertgoers actively prefer music written less than one hundred years
>ago, have inflexible tastes, and get very hot under the collar if they
>have Brahms forced down their throats by these sneaky promoters!
Well, I suspect that the B-ians are more likely to bear with one short
modern piece than the new music lovers with two long and overplayed
warhorses.
I always wonder why the artistic directors can't program something
traditional but less known. Why is it that a modern work has to be
"flanked" by some of the top-10 classics and not by something just slightly
off the beaten path. Even a Sibelius symphony or a choral work by Schumann
(for instance) would be better than one of the symphonies by Beethoven or
Brahms again.
-Margaret Mikulska
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:37:21 -0600
From: Steve Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carter - Early Works
Peter Schenkman asks:
>What makes the Piano Sonata (circa 1947) an "early work" as opposed to
>the 'Cello Sonata (circa 1948).....a later work, yes ...I know...one year.
>They share many similiar traits...and not just that they're both
>very good,
>strong works?
Well, if it's up to me, I'd consider the cello sonata part of that earlier
group, although it's less dependent on neoclassic sources than the piano
sonata is. For me, the big divide in Carter has to do with rhythm. The
"early" works sound measured; the "later" works sound free or free-er. One
no longer thinks of conventional counterpoint -- independent strands united
by a measurable pulse -- but of simultaneous lines essentially going their
own way.
Steve Schwartz
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:10:58 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Organ Music
John Foss wrote:
>Perhaps someone else might like to reveal what triggered off their
>interest in music, and particularly a specific musical form or instrument!
The fact that there was a piano in our home, and my Mother playedm
obviously drew me to it; the Organ, well, listening to our assistant
Organist playing all kinds of unusual music (including Finlandia- really
shook the floor) after evensong in Canterbury Cathedral "got" to me. The
first piece that really struck me however was Mendelssohn's Calm Sea and
Prosperous Voyage- used to introduce "The Moonstone" by Wilkie Collins- as
Sunday evening serial on the Radio in my youth. Then of course, part of
Scheherezade- that brass!! for the "Paul Temple " sieies on the Radio.
A Brahms rhapsody- tho' I didn't know what it was, came to the forefront
during a special dance performance at the Senrior School,very striking.
The list is endless;but yes-the Mendelssohn made an imrpression that has
never left me.
Doris<><
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:13:36 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Programming Old and Young
Christopher Rosevear <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Alan Hovhaness wrote some wonderful piano miniatures towards the end of
>his musical career, including the rather popular Fred the Cat piano sonata:"
>the Koch collections of his piano music span 50 years of composition ...
Hovhaness is this week's Composer on Radio Three-can't recall Fred th Cat
tho'-I shall have to look in The Radio Times. I have a cat called
Johson-after Graham the Accompanist...........
Doris<><(fourblackcats but no broomstick)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:30:01 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carter - Early Works
Steve Schwartz writes:
>For me, the big divide in Carter has to do with rhythm. The "early"
>works sound measured; the "later" works sound free or free-er. One no
>longer thinks of conventional counterpoint -- independent strands united
>by a measurable pulse -- but of simultaneous lines essentially going their
>own way.
That last bit is a good description of the first two string quartets which
I remember first hearing in the early sixties. Somehow it works to produce
a coherent and interesting musical texture.
Bernard Chasan
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:16:18 +0100
From: Peter Wisse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Serendipity
Browsing through the CD collection of our local library, looking for
out of the way repertoire, I found a disc with 20th century Russian
violinconcertos, by to me mostly unknown composers: Knipper, Khrennikov
(this one I knew), Karayev and Rakov. The concertos are very enjoyable,
I would say, for those who like the Kabalevski concertos. The label is:
Revelation, RV10104. Violinists among others: Kremer and D. Oistrakh
The music links well with that on an very old vinyl disc I bought more
than 30 years ago, with the extremely nice clarinet concerto by Manevich,
the trumpet concerto by Pakhmutova and the fluteconcerto by Gordeli On this
LP also the quite well known concerto for coloratura soprano by Gliere.
Highly recommended.
Peter Wisse
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:56:27 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
Margaret Mikulska writes:
>I always wonder why the artistic directors can't program something
>traditional but less known. Why is it that a modern work has to be
>"flanked" by some of the top-10 classics and not by something just slightly
>off the beaten path. Even a Sibelius symphony or a choral work by Schumann
>(for instance) would be better than one of the symphonies by Beethoven or
>Brahms again.
This is one of my perennial gripes, saddled as I am with a symphony that
programs nothing but 'sandwiches' and war horses. Even if the artistic
director feels it necessary to program Beethoven, how about the 2nd or 4th
or 8th symphony instead of the 5th? If Dvorak, how about the 7th or 8th
symphony instead of the 9th or his piano concerto instead of the cello
concerto? Why is it so hard to hear a live performance of Schubert's
symphonies? Regards,
John Parker
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:15:45 -0800
From: Todd Michel McComb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Santu De Silva writes:
>The violin came to India through Europe in the (I believe) late
>17 century, so we're talking a mere 300 years. Secondly, there's
>no need to speculate: we can simply ask them. "Is this how the
>instrument was played? Was your violin reverse-engineered?"
According to the standard version of events, the violin was introduced
into Carnatic (South Indian classical) music by the brother of the great
composer Muthuswamy Dikshitar in the late 1700s. He got it from the
English at Fort St. George (Madras), and in fact Muthuswamy Dikshitar
himself set tunes he heard there to Sanskrit lyrics (what the Indians
call "nottu"). As an aside, I have the lyrics of all of his compositions
online:
http://www.medieval.org/music/world/carnatic/dikshitar.html
The violin was subsequently introduced into Hindustani (North Indian
classical) music during the generation immediately preceding the current
one, based first upon Carnatic practice. The nature of bowed string
technique in South India prior to the arrival of the violin is the subject
of some controversy. However, it is the strong belief of Carnatic
musicians that they have merely adopted the Western technology (they play
a good saxophone and clarinet too, BTW) to their own traditional manner of
playing. The way they play the violin cannot be seen as representative of
Western practice.
>I merely ask: has this store of information been tapped?
Yes.
Todd McComb
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:28:19 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
John Smyth responds to me about my review of Kyoko Tabe's Debussy disc:
>>(Kyoko) mistakes Debussy for Chopin in the first Arabesque.
>
>Debussy revered Chopin. So certainly Kyoko's is a valid performance
>of such an early work.
Valid? I don't know what "valid" has to do with this consideration.
It's legal, and she can play the piece any way she wants(and she did).
I gave my opinions of her style and the reasons for those opinions.
>Shouldn't your observation be, "Kyoko brings out the Chopinesque qualities
>in Debussy, though this reviewer doesn't like it?
No. That observation would be fine if I thought it accurate, but I don't.
She goes much further than simply bringing out the Chopinesque qualities.
She takes Debussy back in time with all her performances on the disc. Even
in my musical studies and training as a youngster, I learned that every
'master' of musical composition was unique and that a performer's highest
artistic level was to reach the core of the composer's soundworld. Debussy
might have revered Chopin, but he *wasn't* Chopin. Every other version I
own of Arabesque No. 1 brings out the Chopinesque elements of the piece,
but not to the extent of making the music over into what sounds like a
Chopin piece with the flavor of Debussy.
John takes exception to my opinion that Tabe over-pedals in the Pagodes.
We just won't be agreeing on this one. I feel that other performers well
depict the gamelan effect with significantly less pedaling than Tabe.
I knew when I posted the Tabe/Debussy review that I was going against the
tide. Most folks favor romantic-era music; just a few decades ago, Bach
was performed as if he had one foot in that era. My view is that Debussy
brought "new music" to the table, and that his innovative qualities are
what make him a greatly revered composer. When the performer gives top
priority to the romantic angle and slights the innovation of Debussy's
music, I will always register my lack of approval. Objectively, I consider
the approach limiting and derivative; Debussy is neither. I did say in the
review that Tabe's performances were beautiful; that's the best I can do
for her.
Two last reflections, and I'm off to dreamland on that tropical island.
John makes his case for the 'romantic' Debussy, and he's certainly
entitled. Yet, the disc title, Estampes, and the liner notes strongly
indicate that the disc's theme is how Debussy's Estampes marked the
turning point in his compositional style for the piano. However, Tabe's
performances contradict her own disc's theme.
I'm currently in the drafting stage of reviews of some discs of the piano
music of Satie, Poulenc, and Ravel. Ms. Tabe is hardly the only artist
who takes composers back in time, so you'll be hearing more from me on this
subject.
Don Satz
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:47:45 +0000
From: John Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Concerning a recent NY Times review, Bernard Chasan writes:
>I cannot free myself of the feeling that some of the NY Times critics don't
>like music very much...
>
>ANd Holland concludes his review by saying that the concert had a
>psychiatric flavor- an obsessive compulsive on each end, depression in the
>middle. Critics are not expected to be uncritical fans of what they hear,
>but they shouldn't patronize the music.
This is only patronizing the music if one takes such terms as obsessive
compulsive and depressing to be value judgments rather than being simply
descriptive. There is much music that I enjoy that I would not hesitate to
apply such labels to. Some of Chopin's Nocturnes can sound like the edge
of suicide to me, but that does not mean I do not appreciate the exquisite
beauty of the music as well.
Regards,
John Parker
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:28:57 -0500
From: Len Fehskens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Deryk Barker asks:
>My question, then is simply this: if this had been indistinguishable
>from random noise, how could I have recognised it?
At what time did the randomness occur? If the piece were composed by random
processes, but thereafter performed identically every time, it might very
well be recognizable. Indeed, I have performed this experiment; I wrote
a piece that was generated by quasi random serial techniques, and it is
immediately recognizable. Anyone interested in the details can contact
me offlist.
len.
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:35:05 +1100
From: Robert Clements <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>In a German music encyclopedia I found the following sentence (translated
>by me):
>
>"As an extreme result of progressive organizing of musical material
>Serial Music became its exact opposite because the audible sound
>result of totally determined music cannot be distinguished from music
>which is totally undetermined."
>
>I don't know exactly what this sentence means and if it is true.
The sentence has a certain jaundiced truth to it if i've read it - & you've
translated it - correctly: the claim is being made that serial (probably
total serial, in this context; rather than music which simply integrates
tone rows into the music texture) music sets out to completely organise the
compositional process but that the results of this organisation is a sound
texture which is indistinguishable (assuming an absence of absolute pitch
in the average listener) from randomised music.
Stripped of my Bruno Heinz Jaja quasiTeutonic guff: an opposition is being
set up between compositional mechanics (which are totally organised) &
their audible effects (which are perceived to be effectively random); with
the apparent implication that nonserialist compositional mechanisms such as
the sonata or variations are easier to >hear< (for want of a better
expression) in the sound texture than inversion, etc. Both elements of
this claim are probably correct (in part because the inherently abstracted
nature of serialist construction); but as i said, definitely jaundiced.
>I understand that the aim of Serial Music (at least in its beginning
>says the article) was to totally determine the musical material (how?).
>This aim to control the whole process paradoxically resulted in music
>that sounded like music totally out of control (why?).
>
>So: Do I understand the sentence correctly? And: is it true?
As far as i can make sense of the translation, you've summarised the
argument that i read correctly; & its claim. The how on serialist
construction was an attempt to create a musical formulaism which would
completely integrate tonal & temporal ratios; & the why is that this
formularity doesn't communicate itself through the sonics of the piece
anywhere near as clearly as it does on the score.
As i say above: i think there is some justification in the claim
(particularly if we are talking about total serialist compositional
systems); but they are definitely overstated here: there are very few
total serialist compositions worth wasting time on; & most of the 12 tone
composers of the 20th century have used a mixture of both serialist &
traditional structures to clarify the audio texture.
Live in peace
[log in to unmask]
endeavour2 project <http://www.geocities.com/robtclements/endeavour2.html>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:25:39 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Margaret Mikulska wrote:
>Of course a work adhering to the principles of total serialism doesn't
>sound organized, because too many parameters are determined in advance and
>the listener can't follow all of them.
Why doesn't it sound organized? If I can't follow all the parameters can't
the parameters I actually can follow sound organized to me?
Robert
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:25:43 +0100
From: Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Deryk Barker wrote:
>After a few minutes listening I was raszonably confident (indeed would have
>taken a small bet) that I was listening to Stockhauseen's Zeitmesse, a work
>which I believe is from Karlheinz's totally-serial period (if not it's
>bloody close) and which I had not heard in perhaps 30 years. And indeed
>it proved to be that very piece.
>
>My question, then is simply this: if this had been indistinguishable from
>random noise, how could I have recognised it?
You are right, you wouldn't have been able to recognise it. But this
logically only proves that the Stockhausen piece was distinguishable. The
musicologist attacking serialism still could say: It is noise but a kind
of noise you can distinguish. Or is this an absurd statement?
Robert
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:26:32 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Deryk Barker ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Yes. Total Serialism, was a 1950s thing insipried IIRC by Messiaen's
>Etudes de valeur et d'intensitie (excuse the spelling).
Before someone else picks up on it (I thought it looked wrong at the time)
I now realise the work is "Modes de...".
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:50:31 +0000
From: Virginia Knight <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Deryk Barker wrote:
>.... I found myself in the middle of an obviously 1950s or
>1960s fairly agressively avant-garde piece.
>
>After a few minutes listening I was raszonably confident (indeed would have
>taken a small bet) that I was listening to Stockhauseen's Zeitmesse, a work
>which I believe is from Karlheinz's totally-serial period (if not it's
>bloody close) and which I had not heard in perhaps 30 years. And indeed
>it proved to be that very piece.
>
>My question, then is simply this: if this had been indistinguishable from
>random noise, how could I have recognised it?
Random noise isn't necessarily homogenous. Just as randomly chosen
sequences of numbers can (for example) turn up sequences of several
consecutive numbers, so a 'random' piece of music can have distinctive
moments which make it identifiable on a second hearing.
Virginia Knight
Personal homepage: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~ggvhk/virginia.html
ILRT homepage: http://www.ilrt.bristol.ac.uk
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:57:07 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Robert Peters ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
Deryk Barker wrote:
>
>>My question, then is simply this: if this had been indistinguishable from
>>random noise, how could I have recognised it?
>
>You are right, you wouldn't have been able to recognise it. But this
>logically only proves that the Stockhausen piece was distinguishable. The
>musicologist attacking serialism still could say: It is noise but a kind
>of noise you can distinguish. Or is this an absurd statement?
No - a chainsaw is noise, but I can recognise it.
My point was simply to propose a coutnerexample to what was being presented
as a rule: that all totally-serial music is indistinguishable from random
noise.
Deryk Barker
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:27:21 EST
From: Denis Fodor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]> writes
>I cannot free myself of the feeling that some of the NY Times critics
>don't like music very much...consider a recent review by Bernard Holland,
>of a NYPhil concert (i believe) featuring a short piece by Sibelius, a
>new piece bt Birtwhistle and Beethoven's Seventh Symphony. And Holland
>concludes his review by saying that the concert had a psychiatric flavor-
>an obsessive compulsive on each end, depression in the middle. Critics
>are not expected to be uncritical fans of what they hear, but they
>shouldn't patronize the music.
I don't know which Sibelius was played, but labelling the Beethoven 7
"obsessive compuslive" does strike me as odd. As for the depression in the
middle, namely the new Birtwhistle, I think Holland here was just applying,
quite understandably, Ockham's razor to a problem that otherwise invites
tautology. Birtwhistle, any Birtwhistle, is depressive, depressive,
depressive.
Denis Fodor
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:01:03 -0800
From: Hector Aguilar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Mike Leghorn writes:
>
>>I often find that reviewers are excellent writers, but lousy at listening
>>to music.
>
>Mike's statement leads me to the question of what qualities the reviewer
>displays which tell the reader that he/she is good at listening to music.
>Or is it just subjective preference?
I would say that there certainly is a subjective aspect, because
different listeners will tend to appreciate different aspects of a
performance, and as listeners themselves, reviewers will naturally reflect
these preferences. However, I don't think that I have to necessarily
agree with the reviewer to find him/her useful. As an example, years ago
there was a movie-reviewer for a local paper here, and when I compared
his reviews with the movies I had seen I found that we were rarely in
agreement. However, over time I realized that just by reading his review,
whether he liked the movie or not, I would generally be able to tell
whether or not the movie would be worth watching for me. I think that he
knew what he liked, was able to elucidate the most salient features to his
tastes, and since I learned what he liked as well I was able to judge
whether or not the movie was for me. In a word, consistency. Later on
this person was judged too local, and was replaced by someone from a much
bigger city (read: more important credentials). I still remember my
impression of this new reviewer, and his first review. He certainly had
a technique for flowery prose, but for all his words he left me with
absolutely no impression that he was convicted by his feelings. Then,
within one week the complaints started coming into the readers opinion
page, with one reader particulary livid because he felt he had been
convinced to see the new movie I had read about, and had absolutely hated
it. Subsequent reviews by this reviewer were tamer and more constrained,
but I never lost the feeling that he was too proud of himself and his own
"talent" for writing. Anyway, what applies to movies and their reviewers
I think could also be said about music.
hector
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:35:03 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
John Parker wrote:
>This is only patronizing the music if one takes such terms as obsessive
>compulsive and depressing to be value judgments rather than being simply
>descriptive. There is much music that I enjoy that I would not hesitate to
>apply such labels to.
A good point, but I still have the feeling that describing the music in
clinical terms is wrongheaded.
Bernard Chasan
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:29:11 -0000
From: Doris Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
Deryk Barker wrote:
>I only have one and there are certianly at least two, but Andrew Parratt's
>The Carol Album (I have vol. II) is wonderful. Vol. II has a version of
>While Shepherds....
I was so impressed by a Radio Three Programme about the NOBC, that I
sold some small pieces of jewellery I never wore, bought the large copy,
the Shorter NOBC, The Christmas Album, CD, The Carol Album and eventually
the Carol Album 2. In 1993 R. 3. produced "An Advent Calender",wittily
introduced by Hugh Keyte, with lots of information. Two or three carols
per day, different professional and amateur choirs, and all of which I have
on cassettes-except the one Saturday when I was visiting the London Cat
Club Show at Olympia. (Also included a Sea-goingg barrel Organ.) One of
my favourites is "Hark, Harks, the Heral-Dangels sing" by a young choir.
Let me know if you want a copy. A C120 and C90, Drove my family mad
singing them all, and had a friend who had just bought a new Vauxhall Nova,
rendering his version of "Nova, Nova, Ave vit ex Ava" Every time he arrived
in it! "Gaudete" was sung in the approved "holding one's nose" fashing by
Steel Eye Span, in the 70's..
I'll get off my hobby horse now. Did I pass the DIAMM Website to this
list? I can't remember, but then, with a rotten cold, catarrh, & cough
"My Brain Hurts" to quote Monty Python's Michael Palin.
Time for the Famous Grouse, obviously.
Doris<><
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:23:38 -0500
From: William Hong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Peter Wisse wrote:
>That was not my point, although I associate Gregorian chant very much with
>religion, I have never done so with organ music. When I wrote I like organ
>music when it is played in church, I should have written, when played in a
>church, I need the reflection from the walls, and the feeling of the deep
>notes.
Plus, there are organs and there are organs....
For example, portable/chamber organs are very much of part of performing
in secular, or even accompanying dance music from the Renaissance or early
Baroque eras. When considered as another continuo instrument, there's
certainly no automatic "association" with religion or liturgy in this
repertoire, any more than the use of modal "churchy-sounding" harmonies
should.
Bill H.
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:59:38 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
John Parker ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Why is it so hard to hear a live performance of Schubert's symphonies?
'cos you live in the wrong place?:-)
In the last few years in Victoria I've heard the 4th, 5th (3 times at
least), unfinished and great c major (twice). And I'm fairly sure that
either 1 or 2 has also been played.
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:23:38 +1100
From: Richard Pennycuick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dohnanyi Symposium in Tallahassee
Deryk Barker wrote of the Dohnanyi Serenade:
>...there's a performance by Perlman Zuckerman and Harrell (c/w Beethoven's
>Serenade Op.8) which is well worth the price of admission (mind you I only
>have this on LP, dunno if there's a CD).
A 2-CD set of Domus performances on Virgin 72435619042, TT=117:47, has it
with Dvorak's Bagatelles, Kodaly's Intermezzo for String Trio, Suk's Piano
Quartet ands Martinu's String Trio #2, Three Madrigals and Piano Quartet
#1. This set has become a favourite since I bought it about a year ago.
Richard Pennycuick
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:46:20 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Preludes and now Fugues
For the many who bothered to take a look at the first few preludes
of my 2002 project, 24 preludes and fugues, and especially for the few that
sent comments:
Prelude #4 http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_prelude_op66_4.pdf (C# minor)
and after several weeks of indecision, Fugue #1
http://www.hartenshield.com/copper_fugue_op66_1.pdf (C major)
In the fugues, I am finding it more difficult to achieve the harmonic
freedom of the preludes -- to be as simple as a popular song, or as
dissonant and unrelated to the 'key' of the piece as the notes may take
me. Comments about this problem would be very welcome.
William Copper
composer of Lovelife Dances
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:45:06 -0500
From: Bernard Chasan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Denis Fodor wrote:
>I don't know which Sibelius was played, but labelling the Beethoven 7
>"obsessive compuslive" does strike me as odd. As for the depression in the
>middle, namely the new Birtwhistle, I think Holland here was just applying,
>quite understandably, Ockham's razor to a problem that otherwise invites
>tautology. Birtwhistle, any Birtwhistle, is depressive, depressive,
>depressive.
The Sibelius was a short and most attractive piece called something like
"Night Ride and Something Something"..... I have nothing to say on the
Birtwhistle because I have never heard it.
Professor Bernard Chasan
Physics Department, Boston University
[The piece was likely Sibelius' Tone Poem "Nightride & Sunrise", Op. 55.
-Dave]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:53:39 -0800
From: Todd Michel McComb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Deryk Barker writes:
>Anyone else ever heard (of) anything like this [singing the Credo
>chant before the Credo of Bach's Mass]?
I can't speak to Bach, although I'd be surprised if the answer isn't yes,
but this is not particularly uncommon for medieval & Renaissance polyphony.
Various performances and recordings sing the chant upon which a movement is
based prior to singing the polyphony, in order to help the listener follow
the music. This is not the norm, but it's certainly not uncommon either.
In fact, Gothic Voices received great acclaim by singing 13th century
French motets on their _Marriage of Heaven and Hell_ CD by adding one
part during each iteration to build the full number of voices.
Todd McComb
[log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:05:32 -0500
From: Tom Connor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Hector Aguilar wrote:
>However, I don't think that I have to necessarily agree with the
>reviewer to find him/her useful. As an example, years ago there was a
>movie-reviewer for a local paper here, and when I compared his reviews with
>the movies I had seen I found that we were rarely in agreement. However,
>over time I realized that just by reading his review, whether he liked the
>movie or not, I would generally be able to tell whether or not the movie
>would be worth watching for me.
I strongly agree. This is all subjective. I recall reading a review
about 35 years ago when the reviewer was praising one recording and very
negative about another. Based on my previous experience with these reviews
I bought the one with the negative review. I enjoyed it greatly. That's
the point of reviews. Learn the reviewers preferences and yours. A good
review can be a screen for your own preferences.
Regards,
Tom Connor
(The one that spells Connor properly.)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:48:12 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Bernard Chasan writes:
>I cannot free myself of the feeling that some of the NY Times critics don't
>like music very much. That can't be right, can it?
No, I can't imagine they don't love music.
>And Holland concludes his review by saying that the concert had a
>psychiatric flavor - an obsessive compulsive on each end, depression
>in the middle.
I assume that Holland wasn't referring to the specific works as
"psychiatric" but to the three composers as being good candidates for the
psychiatric ward. I don't agree with any of this; just trying to get a
bead on Holland.
I think folks need to give these reviewers some slack. They can't simply
can't write academic reviews suitable for the classroom, a journal, or the
music professional. They have to write for the 'generalist' and hold the
attention of the readers. That takes making some comments that can seem
controversial or off-the-wall. It has nothing to do with love of music.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 01:31:03 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Santu De Silva <[log in to unmask]>:
>Pablo Massa writes:
>
>>... chemical-physical structure, and haven't lose the slightest amount
>>of mass in 400 years!!!. It's obvious that the action of time on wood,
>>metals, any material, should necessarily affect the tuning of strings,
>>tubes, etc., in a considerable amount. Of course, it should also affect
>>the timbre of any resonator as violin or keyboard boxes (in this case,
>>there's another additional distorting factor: restorations). ...
>
>I didn't mean to get into this, and frankly, I'm not an expert. But . . .
You don't need to be an expert to imagine that. Let's see the first issue:
pitch. The frequency of an oscillating movement will change if the mass of
the oscillator is modified. If you shorten an organ tube, the frequency
will grow, if you take a longer tube, the frequency will be lower. One can
easily figure that oxidation, periodical repairs and tunings can modify (in
a slight amount) the mass of an organ tube, and consequently, its original
pitch. Let's suppose, that I replace the organ tubes with new ones of the
same length, in order to get exactly the same pitch of the formers. Well,
that's not enough. In order to get the same pitch, I would need exactly
the same oscillating mass, so, I would need organ tubes builded exactly
with the same material, with the same weight, internal dimensions, etc.
As soon as we don't have an absolutely intact organ tube from the baroque
period, we can't clone it, so we have no guarantees that the pitch is
exactly the same as their older brother's (a little change of mass can make
a strong difference in pitch). Concerning timbre changes, you can check it
if you've ever owned a recently built string instrument. One can notice a
change of timbre after just 6 or 7 years of playing it (depending the
instrument). After a time boxed, a string instrument changes its sound.
String instruments are living, organic entities somehow. They're even
sensitive to weather changes. Can you imagine the effect that 400 years
of humidity, cold, heat, accidents, restorations etc. can have in the
mood of a living thing?
>* There are violins being played out in the world that are, in fact,
>unmodified Baroque-era instruments.
Unmodified?. There's no humidity or bad weather at India?
>They are, I believe, imitations of European (even Cremona) violins, and
>some may even be Cremona violins. Again, I don't know for certain. But I
>have heard the claim that, in fact, no Cremona violins survived unmodified,
>and therefore the legendary sound of a Baroque violin is forever lost. In
>other words, since the "violin establishment," to coin a phrase, is unaware
>of unmodified Cremona violins (or at least pedigreed Cremona violins) the
>question is closed.
Perhaps the question was closed because it was not so important to
"recover" a 400 year old sound. I suppose that we investigate old
cremonese violins mainly in order to learn how to make violins that sounds
good to us nowadays.
>* This is all neither here nor there. As you point out, any little thing
>can change the sound of a violin. In fact, the sound of a violin probably
>changes over time with no interference whatsoever.
Yes, you are right.
>The question is, given the entire spectrum of hypothetical sounds that
>Baroque violins made when the world was young, is it too much to expect
>that 'reverse-engineered' violins make sounds somewhere within that
>spectrum? I am willing to believe that they do, and so evidently do
>many others!
We can logically expect it, but the problem here is that we will never be
able to check if that supposed "baroque" sound is equal to the original,
since we haven't any sample or source of the authentic sound to compare.
Notice that my point is only against those who claims that this is possible
with a high degree of certainty.
>>>Meanwhile, in the east, violins are still played with gut strings, with the
>>>shallow angled necks, and played underhand, with the instrument rested on
>>>the chest. Look at any number of Indian violinists.
>>I don't see your point. So what?. Who may say if that's the original
>>style of playing that indian violinists used 3000 years before?
>
>The violin came to India through Europe in the (I believe) late 17 century,
>so we're talking a mere 300 years.
Sorry, it was a type error...:-)
>Secondly, there's no need to speculate:
>we can simply ask them. "Is this how the instrument was played? Was your
>violin reverse-engineered?" Don't forget that Indians are serious
>musicians, passionate about keeping records, and not easily influenced by
>the Authentic Instrument Lobby. And much less likely to do violence to a
>violin.
>
>I merely ask: has this store of information been tapped?
Perhaps Indians are not influenced by the Authentic Instrument Lobby, but
they surely were influenced by other cultural forces along the last 300
years. I don't think that they have much more to say than Westerns about
this issue, since it's difficult to expect that performance traditions have
remained unaltered in India during 300 years. We had a similar case here
in Argentina. The Mbya Indians of the northeast (a very small community)
adopted the european rabel from his first contacts with the Spanish, and
they continue playing it today. Some musicologists looked for fosilized
europen performance practices in the way this indians played the instrument.
But they found that they were often imitating the way some Argentinian folk
violinists play...
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:27:29 -0500
From: Mimi Ezust <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Donald Satz wrote:
>I think folks need to give these reviewers some slack. They can't simply
>can't write academic reviews suitable for the classroom, a journal, or the
>music professional. They have to write for the 'generalist' and hold the
>attention of the readers. That takes making some comments that can seem
>controversial or off-the-wall. It has nothing to do with love of music.
I'm in agreement with you here. I've been wondering as I read this thread
just WHAT it is that people expect from reviewers/critics/authors. What
I expect from a book is very different from what I expect from magazine
articles and newspapers.
Let me pose this question in a less negative way, then ... what do you look
for in an excellent review, and who are some of your favorite reviewers
(aside from those writing for the MCML?)
One of my favorites music critics of the past was Michael Steinberg, and we
were lucky to have him living in Boston for many years. He knew his music,
obviously loved it, could tell us in vivid detail about the concert he was
attending, and also give us excellent program-note background of the pieces
in the program. I like it when reviewers compare lesser-known pieces or
composers to more well-known ones as a frame of reference. I also like it
when technicalities are explained. Steinberg did not ever talk down to his
audience.
Mimi
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:41:32 -0500
From: Mimi Ezust <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Santu De Silva <[log in to unmask]>:
>Meanwhile, in the east, violins are still played with gut strings, with the
>shallow angled necks, and played underhand, with the instrument rested on
>the chest. Look at any number of Indian violinists.
The Indian violinists I heard all held their violins in a very different
way from Baroque fiddlers (as far as I can tell from reading contemporary
accounts and looking at pictures). The Indian fiddlers held the violings
low on the chest AND ALSO SAT cross legged on the floor, with the scroll of
the violin braced in the left instep of the foot. One of the violinists
dipped his left hand fingers in oil, in order to perform glissandi (slides)
more easily. In Western music, there are different kinds of slides ...
the Indian ones were even more varied and many of them were downward as
well as upward, thus making the holding position imperative. Westerners
use the chinrest (invented by Spohr, by the way) to brace the instrument.
I assume then, from holding positions, that a lot of sliding was not
possible on instruments that had neither foodholds or chinrests. As far
as I could determine, the fourth finger of the left hand was not used. I
don't know if this was idiosyncratic. And I never heard chords played.
Sometimes the instrument holding position will be a clue to performance
practice.
The holding position of the Indian violinists' bows was a standard
Baroque grip. The bow traveled over the strings close to the fingerboard,
rendering a more muted sound than Western players obtain by (generally)
placing the bow closer to the bridge.
Mimi, telling you more than you wanted to know.
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:24:17 +0000
From: Donald Satz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
John Smyth responds to me:
>>Mike's statement leads me to the question of what qualities the reviewer
>>displays which tell the reader that he/she is good at listening to music.
>>Or is it just subjective preference?
>
>Technically, (in a frictionless world), the subjective tastes of the
>critic can't be faulted.
Hold on good sir! I was referring to the subjective preferences of the
reader, not those of the reviewer/critic. We grouse quite a bit about
reviewers, but the typical reader possesses subjective preferences as well
which impact the reception the review receives. Perhaps it's about time
to look at the reader in the equation.
The most negative responses I get to my reviews come to me in private
e-mails from folks who are offended that I've stepped on some sacred cow
of theirs - either composer or performer related. However, they usually
don't voice their complaints in a forthright manner. Instead, they drum
up whatever trivial evidence they can to justify their position.
Here are three other common failings of the reader:
1. They really don't read the review. Instead, they just pick out what
they feel like reading and disregard the rest. Sometimes, I'd swear they
read nothing of the review based on their not even being aware of which
recordings are being reviewed.
2. They give no credit to the reviewer for squirreling him/herself
away in a closed room for dozens of hours listening to the subject disc
and many other alternative recordings. However, it is this very same
listening process which gives the reviewer the insight to make comments of
an informed nature concerning the recorded competition. And that's what
it's all about - how best to pick and choose among all the comparative
recordings of a work or composer or style.
3. Many readers seem to possess the view that the romantic repertoire
represents the pinnacle of classical music, and they expect reviewers
to have the same romantic slant. I'll never understand this notion.
We have many centuries of music to reference, and these folks get stuck in
the romantic age to the point where they even want music from other time
periods to sound as romantic as possible - one size fits all. For example,
I love Dvorak's string quartets, but I don't want to listen to Debussy,
Janacek, and Ravel string quartets in the style of Dvorak.
Don Satz
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:26:01 -0800
From: Todd Michel McComb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mimi Ezust writes:
>I've been wondering as I read this thread just WHAT it is that people
>expect from reviewers/critics/authors. What I expect from a book is
>very different from what I expect from magazine articles and newspapers.
One reason I don't read "music reviewers" is that their standards of
accuracy are so low. If they ever have anything interesting to say (a
rarity at best), there isn't even a reason to believe they are correct,
opinions aside. That's what I expect.
I'm happy to discuss music with people I know, at least if they have
something to tell me about it, which they sometimes do. Having a dialog is
the only way to get anywhere. On the other hand, reading what a magazine
reviewer (who frequently has another "real" job anyway) has to say about
the N recordings he's asked to churn through in a given month is not only
low among my priorities, it's on my list of distasteful activities.
So there you have it. Slack, no. Writing for the generalist? I suppose
that would be a charitable description. I call most of it slop.
Todd McComb
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:35:55 +0100
From: Mats Norrman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Credentials
Mimi Ezust wrote:
>Westerners use the chinrest (invented by Spohr, by the way) to brace the
>instrument.
Paganini learnt that from childhood, what must have been before Spohr.
BTW - Arabs hold the violin upright from their leg with the strings to the
outside.
Mats Norrman
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 00:58:59 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Robert Peters <[log in to unmask]>:
>In a German music encyclopedia I found the following sentence (translated
>by me):
>
>"As an extreme result of progressive organizing of musical material
>Serial Music became its exact opposite because the audible sound
>result of totally determined music cannot be distinguished from music
>which is totally undetermined."
>
>I don't know exactly what this sentence means and if it is true.
>
>I understand that the aim of Serial Music (at least in its beginning says the
>article) was to totally determine the musical material (how?).
Schoenberg's early dodecaphonism was a method to control the
harmonic-thematic material of a non tonal composition, and its focus was
the 12 notes of the chromatic scale, not the rhytm or any other parameter.
Control aside, this method had a sort of reactive or defensive purpose:
to eliminate even the most vague reminiscence of the old tonal system.
The order of the notes in the row prohibited some intervallic sucessions
--as two consecutive third or sixths-- or some intervallic combinations
--as fifths followed by fourths, thirds or sixhts etc. The aim was to
avoid anything that could resemble traditional triads (the "free" atonalism
couldn't avoid sometime certain resemblances of the 11th and dim. 7th
chords, as one can see at Schoenberg's op. 19 pieces). The start point
of the method was a row composed of the12 chromatic notes. The order
of the notes is settled by the composer, respecting some rules. The
row functions as a cell from which themes, variations and vertical
relationships are derived (you can retrograde or invert the row, and
combine those different states).
Integral serialism (at fifties Darmstadt) extended this concept to the
entire parameters of musical performance: pitches, rhytms, dynamics,
timbres, octaves, articulations, attacks. The pioneer seems to be Olivier
Messiaen ("Modes de Valeurs et d'Intensites"), though many people tend to
adscribe the --conscious or not-- parenthood of this movement to Webern,
and accuse his "Variationen" for piano of being the early ancestor of
"Modes de Valeurs...". Integral serialism didn't last too much. However,
many of the "Darmstadt boys" became later fascinated by two radically
different paths: aleatory music (in which control tends to zero), or
electroacoustic music, in which the composer may determine every parameter
and control the most infinitesimal event of sound.
>This aim to control the whole process paradoxically resulted in music
>that sounded like music totally out of control (why?).
Do the following experiment (you may tape yourself, or you may simply
imagine it): sit down in front of a piano and choose 3 sectors of the
keyboard: extreme low, middle and extreme high, fixing clear limits
betweeen them.
a) play 10 or 15 random notes (moderately fast), but don't play two
consecutive notes at the same sector.
b) now, play another series according to the former rule, but play only
black keys at the upper sector and only white keys at the lower sector
(middle sector is free, but you must play there at lower volume than at
the other sectors).
c) play 15 random notes without following any rule (don't stop to "choose"
the notes: make a real chaos).
Those three series may sound equally ugly, uninteresting etc. but surely
you will find them very different in their aspect and character. You may
say that the composer of b) is "trying to avoid something" (a neurotic
guy!!), while the composer of c) is a real psycho. When you introduce
a pattern or a rule, the entire musical physiognomy changes somehow.
It doesn't means that music becomes more beautiful, just that its
"face" changes. Of course, if those rules or patterns are referred
to microscopical parameters (as occurs in electroacoustic music), it's
possible that you can't distinguish it from a random noise. But in the
case of Schoenberg's serialism, I think that it's not so difficult to
perceive a considerable difference between a free piano improvisation and
his op. 23.
>So: Do I understand the sentence correctly? And: is it true?
I think you do, but it's not true at all.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:18:45 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Serial Music
Virginia Knight ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>Random noise isn't necessarily homogenous. Just as randomly chosen
>sequences of numbers can (for example) turn up sequences of several
>consecutive numbers, so a 'random' piece of music can have distinctive
>moments which make it identifiable on a second hearing.
True enough - and the apparent "non-randomness" which can appear in
sequences of random numbers ofetn confuse.
But somehow, I don't think was the intent of the original article's
invocation of "random noise".
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:24:39 -0700
From: Jane Erb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Agustin Anievas
I have just heard from John Deacon, who was attending the < Midem
Classique> in Cannes a couple of weeks ago, that he had met with Stewart
Brown of Testament (at one of Gramophone's evening champagne parties)
who confirmed to John that EMI *will* after all be issuing the remaining
Anievas tapes of the Brahms Handel and Paganini Variations. As there
is not enough material remaining to make up a 2-CD for the release,
undoubtedly works by another artist will be involved in the release.
Jane Erb
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:21:52 -0800
From: Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Early Music Texts
Doris Howe ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>... "Gaudete" was sung in the approved "holding one's nose" fashing by
>Steel Eye Span, in the 70's..
If I may pick a tiny nit: it's Steeleye Span (I once witnessed them sing
this very piece, at the Central Poly c1970). The name IIRC was derived
from one of the old folk that Grainger/Vaughan Williams/Sharpe collected
songs from in the early 20th century: Mr. Span, known as "Old Steeleye".
deryk barker
([log in to unmask], http://www.camosun.bc.ca/~dbarker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:46:08 -0500
From: Peter Schenkman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dohnanyi Symposium in Tallahassee
Heifetz/Primrose/Feuermann is the way to go and it is on CD. One of the
greatest chamber music performances ever set down!
Peter Schenkman, Toronto, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 01:30:33 -0300
From: Pablo Massa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant
Jon Gallant <[log in to unmask]>:
>This raises a fascinating further question. Could it be that echo sounds
>of this sort in the medieval cathedrals is what SUGGESTED the idea of
>polyphony to church musicians?
>
>The idea appeals to me, for it would link the whole development of
>western music to a prior, physical characteristic of architecture and
>medieval culture. Unfortunately for the hypothesis, my understanding is
>that two voice organum appeared around the 10th century, which would seem
>to predate the Romanesque cathedrals and thus refute the hypothesis.
Yes. In fact, what we have at the 10th century are the first *written*
sources of polyphony (there is even an earlier example of 9th century at
"Musica Enchiriadis"), but we don't know exactly when or where began the
*practice* of it. One may suppose that it's much earlier than its first
written renderings. Why?; because the first polyphonic sources are just
about a century younger than the first plainchant manuscripts (dated circa
9th century). It's probable that gregorian chant was *always* sung with
some kind of improvised polyphonic ornament. In fact, gregorian chant was
almost entirely made out of a repertoire of melodic formulas that were
originally combined at improvisation, the result of it being later fixed
by tradition (that seems clear at the Tractus and Graduales). We know
that the first attempts of writing down gregorian melodies were made by
the ecclesiastical officers of the carolingian court, in order to clear
and organize the liturgical customs of the empire. Perhaps they initially
just wrote down the melodies, and discarded polyphonic ornaments as a
secondary element. Besides, the graphical representation of polyphony
was surely a sort of challenge for those men. At the treatise "Musica
Enchiriadis" (c. 850 attrib. Aureliani Reomensis) we find an ingenious
and completely personal way to write down a parallel organum for "Rex
Domine maris Undisoni". The author of the treatise was forced to invent
this way of representing polyphony because he wanted to give a clear
theoretical example of it, but --as soon as they had completely different
objectives-- one may think that the carolingian officers hadn't the same
urgency.
Pablo Massa
[log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:33:27 -0800
From: William Copper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tempo Magazine on George Rochberg
In the recent Tempo magazine there was an article about composer George
Rochberg. I seem to have read virtually the same article every 6-8 years,
and it postulates that GR is the trend-setting composer of the latter 20th
century.
It is astounding to me that anyone could make such a claim; there may be
some Rochberg students mouldering under other rocks than mine, but as far
as I know, no serious composer has followed Rochberg's path in imitating
the classics, one of the worst new directions in musical history. The only
grain of truth in the article was that Rochberg was the first [academically
credentialled and tenured] composer to take that barren path.
The "logic" (?) of the author of the article goes like this:
A. Old music had harmony
B. GR copied old music
C. Therefore composers who use harmony are copying GR
As someone engaged in an homage to Bach and Shostakovich now, I feel very
sensitive to the mis-interpretation that I am writing in an attempt to
revive any older style.
William Copper
composer of Lovelife Dances
24 Preludes and Fugues
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:55:43 -0000
From: Len Mullenger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MusicWeb Classical CD Reviews for February
Classical CD Reviews for February
MusicWeb has just completed 230 full-length informed CD reviews for
February. You can find them in composer alphabetical order here
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Feb02/1aFeb02-1.htm
You will also find links to the following new articles
THE RISE AND FALL OF POPULAR MUSIC by Donald Clarke
Complete book now on-line
COME ALONG NORMAN - YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS!
Adrian Smith rebuffs Norman Lebrecht's assertion that Walton
killed his own talent.
LUDWIG THUILLE by Eric Schissel
GERALD FINZI a major new site by John France
FARTEIN VALEN By David C F Wright
LUIGI NONO by David C F Wright
VILEM TAUSKi C.B.E. F.G.S.M. (b. 1910) + List of compositions
PATRICK HADLEY by John France
WILL THE AUDIENCE MIND STANDING UP? ........ Arthur Butterworth
EXCLUSIVE Interview with Adriano by Rob Barnett
BEETHOVEN by Davis C F Wright
HAYDN by David C F Wright
Richard Wetz (1875-1935) as Composer By Eric Schissel
Peter Racine Fricker: Personal Thoughts and Memories by David Wright
DIATRIBES AND DIGRESSIONS New Formats and the Real World by David Dyer
and peek into the MusicWeb Listening Studio
We also managed around one live concert or Opera review each day which can
be found at http://www.musicweb.uk.net//SandH/listingJan-Apr2002.html
Len Mullenger
The Internet CD review site
www.musicweb.uk.net www.FilmMusic.uk.net www.TheClassicalSite.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:58:05 -0600
From: Bruce Alan Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: John Adams at the Barbican
Margaret Mikulska wrote:
>I always wonder why the artistic directors can't program something
>traditional but less known. Why is it that a modern work has to be
>"flanked" by some of the top-10 classics and not by something just slightly
>off the beaten path. Even a Sibelius symphony or a choral work by Schumann
>(for instance) would be better than one of the symphonies by Beethoven or
>Brahms again.
IMHO, one can never hear a symphony by Brahms or Beethoven too many times;
for certain modern composers, once is more than enough.
"Bruce Alan Wilson" <[log in to unmask]>
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