Mike Leghorn, replying to Deryk Barker:

>>>Beethoven used four notes in the last movement in a similar way that Mozart
>>>used four notes as a basis for intensely complex counterpoint in the 41st.
>
>>[...] while it's true that he used a four note phrase in the
>>finale, he had already used the same four notes similarly in the "Eroica"
>>Variations which were also based on the theme from Prometheus.  ...
>
>I would like to suggest a fun little exercise: simultaneously play the
>4-note theme from the Eroica finale and the 4-note theme from the finale
>of the Jupiter Symphony (transposing one so they're both in the same key,
>of course).  You might be surprised.

The four notes of the "Jupiter" finale (previously appearing in an
early short mass of Mozart's in the "Credo" section) I'm told were a
standard contrapuntal exercise of the time.  Also, the Eroica variations
theme consists of more than 4 notes and, if you carry out both composers'
continuations, they "go together" a lot looser.  The explicit harmonies
of both differ, of course, even in the four notes, at least that far, they
do indeed go together.  Thanks, Mike!  It may be a habit of contrapuntal
thinking left over from Beethoven's student days.

Steve Schwartz