Steve Schwartz replies to Mike Leghorn

>>I would like to suggest a fun little exercise: simultaneously play the
>>4-note theme from the Eroica finale and the 4-note theme from the finale
>>of the Jupiter Symphony (transposing one so they're both in the same key,
>>of course).  You might be surprised.
>
>... The explicit harmonies of both differ, of course, even in the four
>notes, at least that far, they do indeed go together.  Thanks, Mike!  It
>may be a habit of contrapuntal thinking left over from Beethoven's student
>days.

I seem to recall reading in Maynart Solomon's book, "Beethoven", that
Beethoven was not a very conscientious counterpoint student.  While
studying under Haydn, he had a friend do some of his exercises (am I
correct on this? Beethoven scholars, please feel free to jump in).  I find
this particularly interesting in light of how he embraced and explored
counterpoint in his late works (e.g.  Hammerklavier, Diabelli Variations,
late piano sonatas, Grosse Fugue).

Back to the subject of possible borrowings, here's another example that I
find quite interesting:  Brahms 2nd Symphony, 1st Movement, measures 2 thru
5 (horns) and Eroica, measures 3 thru 6.  Perhaps the numerous examples of
Eroica-like themes supports Margaret Mikulska's assertion that it is one of
the most common, ordinary devices used in tonal music.

Mike Leghorn