Robert Clements wrote:

>Bill Pirkle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Is it true to say that all music was avant-garde at one time?  Especially
>>major genres.
>
>No
>
>By & large, the most highly respected classical & romantic composers of
>today were popular in their own days. ...

I suppose it depends on how one uses the expression avant garde.  One
could look at the Ars Nova as being avant garde for its time.  Composers
like Debussy, Wagner and Varese probably saw themselves as "forsaking all
memory to forge a perception without precedent, of renouncing the legacies
of the past..." (Boulez).  Yet, from my perspective, it seems to me that
only some of the electronic music could fufill the notion as expressed by
Boulez.  Some of the electronic music seems to have developed (and rightly
so from my perspective) a very different aesthetic, one in which timbre is
considered an equal to structure, and has, in some instances, replaced
thematic material as a primary organizational consideration.

I have no understanding of a notion of how "renouncing the legacies of the
past" relates to popularity or unpopularity, nor how any of those notions
relate to respectability.

For me, the Boulez statement is the sort of thing young person makes to
provide some comfort to his ego.  Assuming one could renounce the legacies
of the past, such a renouncement would need to be done having an extensive
knowledge of the past, otherwise, how would one know what to renounce?

While it is often pointed out that many of the currently respected
composers of the past were indeed well known and respected in their own
time,I do feel it is worth adding that many "popular" and highly respected
composers from the past are ignored today.

I would wager that most everyone on this list knows the names of
Stockhausen, Xenakis, Boulez, and many of the names of the "older"
generation of the "avant garde." That in itself would seem to suggest
that within some circles they have indeed achieve a certain amount of
recognition and "popularity." Even writing that sentence reminds me of the
relativity of such notions of "popularity" and "avant garde." I just don't
see Mahler winning any "People's Choice" award.

Karl