A mother with a 2 yr old who nurses during the night has been prescribed
Quatro Night Whitener XL2
for tooth whitening ,it contains propylene glycogycol,sodium
fluoride,potassium nitrate,hydro-xyprotyl cellulose,aloe vera.carbamide
peroxide,emulsifying wax,hydrogen peroxide and flavor funnel silica,and
glycerine,she is to put the gel in a mouth guard and wear it for 4
nights.She is unsure if this is safe for her baby.Does anyone have any
information on this.? My thoughts are that the age of the baby plus the fact
that it is applied topically will mean very little in the breast milk but
wondered if anything has been mentioned about this before.I looked up 2 of
the ingredients fluroide and aloe vera in Hales 1999 but have found no info
anywhere about the other ingredients.
Pat S.RN IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:14:39 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Kathleen G. Auerbach" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: lactation stars?
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Call me a wet blanket, but something does not sit right with me in naming
people some think of as stars. I would prefer you take me off the list.
Why? My personal feeling is that ANYone who helps even ONE breastfeeding
mother is a star in the constellation of lactation; therefore, to single
out some but not all is --for me, anyway--not the best activity to engage
in. In addition, in the science of Astronomy, I learn that stars have a
life cycle; they are born, shine for awhile, and then die (some quickly and
explosively and others more slowly). To carry that analogy a bit further,
the knowledge of people in any given field tends to be transferred from the
"older" ones to "younger" (often more enthusiastic) ones. Those who have
been around awhile need to be willing to step aside and let the more
enthusiastic, and quite likely more informed, ones shine. Singling out
those who have been around a long time does not do justice to the
contributions of all the rest (see my first couple of sentences again).
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as impossible situations."
Kathleen G. Auerbach,PhD, IBCLC (Ferndale, WA USA) [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:25:11 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: delayed lactogenesis stage 2
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Vanessa writes of a 6 d.o. infant, baby #6 in birth order, and mother says
her milk did not come in and there is "not a drop" of milk there.
Rule #1 is feed the baby. Please do not delay in doing this. This can be a
very bad downward spiral. Use donor milk as first choice. Use nursing
supplementer if baby will latch. (of course mother can choose other
alternates as well or use whatever is needed to get milk in the baby).
Rule #2 is support the milk supply - you need to have the mother see her
primary hcp to evaluate for retained placental fragments, r/o Sheehan's
syndrome (did she have excess blood loss or hypotension at the birth?),
endocrine dysfunction (thyroid, pituitary, diabetes). She can continue
regular pumping. With 5 previous successful lactations, surely something is
amiss. BTW, In cases like this, where there is virtually no milk, I have not
seen success w/ use of herbs or prescription galactagogues (metoclopramide).
Rule #3 is fix the breastfeeding. (Well these are sort of how I've adapted
Coach Smith's wonderful rules.) That is, get the mom and baby bf together
again. Which she can actually be doing w/ the supplementer. But I say this
because some use cup, finger feeding, or bottle as the alternate in step 1.
Good luck helping this mother.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, s.e. USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:24:29 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Keith Lorick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hands off the breast
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Hi all,
I need your collective international wisdom. There is a video put out by
Unicef that shows the correct position for breastfeeding as a cradle hold
with the mom using both arms to support the baby and giving no breast
support. They are saying, apparently, that (are you ready for this??)
touching the breast contaminates it. I understand that we are dealing with
moms in 3rd World countries here, but they are pretty adamant in this
training that mom's with normal healthy babies should NEVER need to support
their breasts.
I am in complete disagreement with this. But next week I have to go to the
jungle to teach a lactation seminar to people who have seen this video and
been instructed in this method. I looked in the archives and didn't find
anything on this topic. So I am asking for your thoughts on the matter. I
am no mail (but will be changing soon) so please respond to my email as well
as to the list. I need some good research-based ammunition!
TIA
Glenni Lorick, BSE IBCLC
Lima Peru
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:32:07 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Heidi A. Bingham" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: In the World Ministries/Militant Breastfeeding Cult
Subject: Re: Gary Ezzo and Robert Bucknam
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> I think as one writer put it, there are many types of Mothers and many
> different situations. My husband and I have found that it works best to
> read many different parenting philosophies and choose the ones that work
> best for your family. This is what I tell my parents in the classes I
> teach.
Very true, and Babywise isn't *all* bad. That type of schedule is just what
some mothers need, as you've found out. The problem with it is that it's a
"baby in the box" thing, one-aixe-fits-all parenting. From the introduction
(Preparation for Parenting, edition 5), "The pricnciples have worked for
thousands of parents and, when faithfully applied, will also work wonderfully
for you!" Ezzo states that it will work and if it doesn't, you aren't
faithfully applying the principles. :-( In the GFI "forum" any questions
asked about why it isn't working is blamed on the parents, and they're
encouraged to become more rigid in their application of PDF, not less.
Somewhere in the book (don't have the page #), writing about potential
failures, Ezzo says "the problem isn't with *the* scedule, it's with *your*
schedule" Leaves parents feeling terribly incompetant when it fails for them.
Not to mention it is completely unsubstantiated medically. He makes claims
that feeding chidlren on demand increases ADD, cause metabolic confusion (what
is that, anyway???) and many, many more, Dr. Aney says at least 35.
Is feeding a baby on a schedule wrong? No! Some babies, mothers and families
thrive on it. Is insisting new parents *must* feed on a scedule, limit
feedings to no more than 10 per day, get baby to sleep throught the night by 8
(maybe 10) weeks, etc. and using scare tactics, medical misinformation and
Scripture twisting to convince them this is *the correct* method of parenting
wrong? Yes.
Thing is, though Ezzo does lip service to flexibility, anything outside of his
routine is wrong. I agree that reading various parenting philosophies and
taking what "works for you" from each one is best, but Ezzo would never
encourage this. It's PDF or you'll turn your children into brats. That,
combined with the misinformation, is my problem with the materials. There must
be some *other* place to get the good stuff, and it's time to get the deceptive
stuff off the market.
Blessings ~ Heidi
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:50:33 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: different views and opinions (e.g. scales)
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Magda,
You say "But what about this for a proposition? Every area of practice
needs a spread of views and opinions. I will sit here, in my
position of scepticism about these artifacts, croaking away my refrain of
caution, warning and unease."
Your voice is a welcome one, and I feel it is important for you to keep
offering your scepticism. All of us have to daily evaluate our philosophy
and practice.
I think the difference is that you are a bf advocate and supporter, and I
don't think you'd call yourself a lactation consultant? Please correct me if
I am wrong. Some of us do work regularly with compromised babies, some with
handicaps. Many of us work with normal bf dyads who get really messed up by
hosp mismanagement and/or sacrificed on the altars of ignorance.
Therefore, I appreciate the scales (yes, have one in my office) and the
elec. pumps. (These are like cars in the U.S. - everybody has one or more -
not saying this is right or wrong).
Later you say, "and *knowing* that a journal *devoted* to breastfeeding
(well, I was mistaken there, 'cos it is devoted to lactation)"
I see your point here. But the JHL is the journal of ILCA, for lactation
consultants, and would be useful but not necessarily intended for the bf
peer counselor or bf advocate. What I am saying is that a peer counselor,
LLLL, NMAA counselor or person/group promoting and supporting bf (WABA)
would not necessarily need a scale or subscribe to the JHL for that matter.
Just as an aside, not everyone realizes that ILCA is the professional org.
for LACTATION CONSULTANTS (health care providers, members of the health care
team). It advocates bf, of course, but is not an org. specifically for bf
advocacy, like WABA. Though it is lovely that all of us and our views are
welcome here on lactnet.
Warm regards,
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, s.e. USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:03:53 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Ezzo
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In a message dated 11/05/1999 6:46:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< Why don't some Christians set this guy straight? He is making a mockery
of there sacred scriptures. >>
I must come out of lurking briefly......
We are trying. There are at least three of us (Christians) who are members
of ILCA & have spoken about this at ILCA conferences. Additionally, this
topic has been included in conferences for psychotherapists, other
breastfeeding and parenting conferences, parachurch ministries, and in
various media venues.
I've been battling this for a decade now. I've met with the Ezzos and
corresponded by letter and phone with them. The only positive response
(IMHO) that I received from them was when they began to include in their
books a portion of my suggestions about indications that baby is getting
enough.
People cannot "set them straight" just like that. First, they are being paid
handsomely for what they do. Secondly, they are adored by followers, who
tell glowing stories of success, such as was recently recounted on Lactnet.
Since we Americans live in a culture that still doesn't understand the
breastfeeding relationship, we are a long way from the day when the average
parent understands that it is oh-so-much more than getting a specific milk
into the baby's stomach. Given the fact that we are on our third generation
of mother-baby pairs who are sadly missing the experience of intimacy that
leads to life-long abilities in emotional attachment, we cannot expect that
our culture as a whole will see anything wrong with leaving a baby alone in a
crib to cry for an hour.
Scripture-twisting is a common practice. Gary Ezzo was admonished about this
at in the church which began (and now have disavowed) his programs. He
simply won't see his well-defended behavior as wrong in any way. He is, in
some respects, the result of a nonattached society that values religious
freedom to the point of supporting irresponsibility.
But it certainly isn't for lack of trying to "set him straight".
Nancy Williams
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:10:40 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Phipps, Brenda" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ezzos as a cult
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Since the Ezzos have once more become a topic of discussion, I thought I
would remind those of you who didn't see my post several weeks ago that the
Ezzos are currently listed as a potential cult on the following website:
http://www.rickross.com/sg_bible.html
If you have additional on-line links regarding the Ezzos which may be of
interest to Rick Ross, the writer/cult deprogrammer who sponsors this site,
please e-mail him at [log in to unmask]
Brenda Phipps, BS, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:23:19 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Twelve Days of Detachment
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The holiday spirit has struck us a bit early here at Miami-Dade WIC this
year :-) An inspired mood hit us the other day, and before you knew it,
we'd written our own adaptation of the Twelve Days of Christmas, with the
theme of how we become detached from our babies. Enjoy:
TWELVE DAYS OF DETACHMENT *
On the first day of Christmas my family gave to me a crib in the other room.
On the second day of Christmas my family gave to me 2 playpens and a crib in
the other room.
On the third day of Christmas my family gave to me three Ferber books, 2
playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the fourth day of Christmas my family gave to me four monitors, three
Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the fifth day of Christmas my family gave to me five pacifiers, four
monitors, three Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the sixth day of Christmas my family gave to me six types of bottles,
five pacifiers, four monitors, three Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in
the other room.
On the seventh day of Christmas my family gave to me seven cans of formula,
six types of bottles, five pacifiers, four monitors, three Ferber books, 2
playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the eighth day of Christmas my family gave to me eight hours of colic,
seven cans of formula, six types of bottles, five pacifiers, four monitors,
three Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the ninth day of Christmas my family gave to me nine doctor visits, eight
hours of colic, seven cans of formula, six types of bottles, five pacifiers,
four monitors, three Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the tenth day of Christmas my family gave to me ten weeks of wheezing,
nine doctor visits, eight hours of colic, seven cans of formula, six types
of bottles, five pacifiers, four monitors, three Ferber books, 2 playpens
and a crib in the other room.
On the eleventh day of Christmas my family gave to me eleven months of
crying, ten weeks of wheezing, nine doctor visits, eight hours of colic,
seven cans of formula, six types of bottles, five pacifiers, four monitors,
three Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in the other room.
On the Twelfth Day of Christmas my family gave to me twelve months of
depression, eleven months of crying, ten weeks of wheezing, nine doctor
visits, eight hours of colic, seven cans of formula, six types of bottles,
five pacifiers, four monitors, three Ferber books, 2 playpens and a crib in
the other room.
"Thoughts on how we become detached" written by: Heidi Lunn MS IBCLC,
Merritt James, Cheryl Lorie and Regina Roig-Lane BS IBCLC.
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:23:21 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Anne's experience with Babywise (long)
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Anne, thank you for posting about your experience with your triplets -- it
must have taken some good nerve for you to do it, and it's important for us
all to read.
I think there are a lot of people, who basically hate scheduling feedings,
who might still agree that for mothers of higher-order multiples it can be
the lesser of two evils. Even twins who are theoretically are fully demand
fed are sometimes both fed when either one is hungry -- which can
occasionally amount to Twin A "scheduling" Twin B. Parenting is full of
surprises, and I can only imagine how true that is of triplets! and
ultimately parents need to do what works for them and their families.
It sounds as if for your family the theoretically more flexible plan of
straight demand feeding had paradoxically become more rigid -- it was playing
out in a way that made you feel trapped. And, contrariwise, setting up some
degree of scheduling gave you enough breathing room that you could be capable
of flexible thinking at all!
In The New Yorker this week John Seabrook wrote about the process of slowly
becoming committed to co-sleeping with his baby, and part of what makes it a
great article is that while he comes down ultimately strongly in favor of
co-sleeping -- and says outright of the CPSC announcement that "it's based on
shoddy science" -- he acknowledges the true, horrible, not-at-all-imaginary
debilitating effects of gross sleep deprivation, and acknowledges frankly why
parents might be absolutely right to try a lot of different things to escape
from it.
I think a lot of our discussion about BabyWise and GKGW has been really
inappropriate in taking the tone that only bad, alienated, narrowminded or at
the best clueless parents are going to find value in this book. It is just
obviously not the case. People are various, and which particular lesson they
happen to need to hear at a particular juncture of their lives is various.
That said, I think that the big problem that remains with the Ezzo's
parenting recommendations is that -- even if they helped you think outside
the box, and sometimes help others do that too -- they are not about
flexibility or figuring out what is best for your baby and you. They are
really about one, set, way to raise your family, and most families who read
it are not managing multiples. They need to impose a schedule not to save
their sanity, but because they believe schedules and some greater control of
baby processes are better for human character.
Of course this is true of any fixed "movement" with fixed "steps" you need to
implement -- I hope there is nobody here who imagines that attachment
parenting has never been a straitjacket for some families. But if
attachment parenting is carried beyond good-sense into dogma, or begins to
express parental anxiety instead of parental confidence, the worst case is
going to be parental headaches and spoiled kids. Whereas if BabyWise is
implemented unwisely it can ultimately result in starvation of infants and
abuse of toddlers. And tragically these results really have happened in
some families. Nor are as many bf relationships saved by it as sabotaged --
not every mom is getting 3x stimulation, so fewer feeds can be insufficient
for some mothers to keep up their supply even if theoretically they might be
enough for the baby.
Get what you can from it, definately. I give people Ferber's book, too, to
learn from, even though I have a three year old who happily hops in and out
of my bed all night. "Who is wise? One who learns from every person."
(_Pirkei Avot_). But if you are recommending it to parents of multiples to
help them escape from one kind of slavery, please remind them not to use it
in a way that will consign them and their children to another form.
-- And please, when you mention the book to others, add some mention of
stooling to those "getting enough" recommendations! A baby that is peeing
enough will not die of dehydration, but she can still starve to death, and
pretty quick, too.
Warmly,
Elisheva Urbas
NYC
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:42:05 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melissa V. Kirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hospital scheduling interfering with feeding
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I'm glad you said it Joanne, re: getting a lawyer, but I definitely
thought it. This hospital is setting itself up for a lawsuit, IMO. How
many babies are getting ABM, against the parents wishes, b/c of this
policy?
Melissa Vance, in the JD capacity.
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:11:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: scale, pumps, et al
Comments: To: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
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I agree with both Jan *and* Heather and Magda on this one. Huh - aren't they
on "different sides"? I don't think so.
My first response to Magda's initial posting about the scale ad was like
Jan's - JHL is a professional journal, the scale is one tool professionals
may use, so I don't see it as a big deal. But - here's where I come in with
Magda - the increasing reliance, at least in the US, on "stuff" concerns me
a great deal. So the scale? Yeah, I do see that as a legitimate tool for
those of us who set ourselves up as "professionals" in the field of
"lactation" (which to me doesn't have the same flavor as "breastfeeding
support") - although I don't have one myself. And electric pumps - I hate
'em, but I will be first in line to concede that when we need them, we need
them, and if you're going to go for a tool, the more effective it is the
better. I don't have pumps either. (I do have ready access to scales &
pumps, so I'm not totally unfit to hang out my shingle!)
But I feel like I'm sort of stuck in a gap here: as lactation gains credence
as a professional field, with research-based science and entry-level
certification and expectations that WE are the pros to whom BFing concerns
should be referred, I also shy away from the increased reliance on the tools
of the profession - all the equipment and gizmos and pieces of silicone and
the "things". I want it both ways, and I don't think I get to have it both
ways. (Except on lactnet, where we are among ourselves and I can say it loud
and strong.)
I don't like it that as we become more widely-acknowledged as a profession,
we risk falling into the same trap some of the other professions have
preceeded us into. I don't like imitating the medical model of practice. I
don't like it that as I gain credentials I lose some freedom. I don't really
like being the court of last resort, seeing only the big problems that are
considered "important enough" to go so far as to actually pay a professional
to cope with.
I DO, however, like it very much that our science is bringing us forward and
out of the realm of mystery and folklore and the world of murky, faintly
repellent "woman stuff" (at least in a post-industrial culture). I like
being able to say "this is my story and I'm sticking to it and here's the
research that supports my practice on this". I like it that I can be paid as
an acknowledged professional (well, we have a ways to go but we're headed
there), and not be expected to pass out the riches of what I'm skilled in
for free - but I can if I choose to, and be respected for doing so; I can
exchange my skill and education for a basket of eggs or help cleaning my
house if I choose to, or for the satisfaction of helping women & babies
alone, or for about the price of an annual subscription to JHL. I like it
that we have foremothers and pioneers that have laid down such a basic and
important body of knowledge; I'd like to add my 2 bits someday.
Know what I mean? And we FOR SURE need all the voices, from sides and from
all parts of the globe! I'm pretty sure that the more voices we hear, the
better we get at listening. My "initials" will be up for recert next year -
and I may choose to let them go for a period and see how it is without them.
Cathy Bargar RN IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:14:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: game criteria
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>If you really want to pursue this, then you should set up criteria.
My criteria for *names to use on The Exam* would either be people like Chele
who aren't widely published but who've had a significant and international
impact on the field; or people from other disciplines - Kathy D is a good
example; or people who are involved in some part of breastfeeding that one
learns about by participating in the field, not by reading Lawrence and R&A
- Chloe Fisher for instance.
I can think of at least 4 versions of the game:
1) the one in which we list the people *anyone* with a basic grounding in
human lactation should know - that's the authors of the major texts and the
widely published people, probably mostly current and not historical.
2) the game for candidates, in which we list names of people who *aren't*
widely published, or who come from other disciplines, or who represent the
past, but who have been key to the field. These are people whose names
don't jump out from the basic texts, but who really ought to be known by
anyone who's going to call herself an IBCLC.
3) the national or continental version, in which we list the people whose
presence in the profession at conferences, in ILCA, and as information
resources keeps the profession current, lively, and interactive *within that
country or continent*; or whose culturally-recognized presence represents a
step back rather than a step forward, at least within that country or
continent.
4) the one where we try to dig especially deep and find names that people
will recognize after a moment's thought - the ones we really, really ought
to know, but a version in which few of us will score 100% and most of us
will learn something.
I think we've been playing a combination of all 4, with little emphasis on
#3. Interestingly, we probably rely most heavily on the people in #3; I've
written to several of them in the past 24 hours for help with mothers.
I suppose to come up with a list for IBLCE, one would need first to combine
all 4 games, acknowledge that that's what we're doing, then eliminate, to
make sure we have an internationally balanced list of not-too-obvious,
not-too-3-ish names. I'd be happy to play off-list with anyone who wants
to...
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC, LLLL Ithaca, NY
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:27:24 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: strange milk supply
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Cathy
Appreciate your thoughts and I think some of the factors you describe could
be affecting her lactation (6 d.o. infant, 6th baby) like if she's smoking,
less responding to infant cues, etc. However....she never experienced a
breast fullness or I call it sometimes a milk surge and this is day 6. I was
also wondering, like you, if it could be baby factors contributing to this.
Like you related the story of the baby w/ CF. However....again, I think we
would see the normal "engorgement" or fullness in the first week (usually
soon for multiparas) and THEN the milk supply would start to dwindle.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, s.e. USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:42:02 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Vanessa S. Dexter" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 5 Nov 1999 - Special issue (#1999-182)
Dear Cathy,
Thank you so much for your response to my query to the lactnet list. My
co-leader and I were looking for some much needed help and we got exactly
what we needed. Thanks for your time.
Sincerely,
Vanessa
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:48:24 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Renate Rietveld IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: strange milk supply
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Vanessa!
Although the other replies sound logical as well, I for one would also
check if there could be a retained placenta fragment.
Good luck,
Renate Rietveld, IBCLC
Rijswijk, The Netherlands
At 23:10 4-11-99 -0600, you wrote:
>I need help with a mom w/6day old infant. Babe is #6 and mom has nursed
>all exclusively. She says that her milk didn't come in as with other
>children and problem is that after nursing for only 3-4 min total for
>both sides she cannot get anything else out. She has tried pumping, hand
>expressing and says there is not a drop anywhere. Baby is getting very
>frustrated and hungry and I haven't dealt with this before. I would
>appreciate any help you could offer.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
Renate Rietveld, IBCLC
E-mail : [log in to unmask]
Homepage: http://www.casema.net/~rietveld/index.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:05:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Dr. Tom Hale" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Prozac, Dostinex, Ritalin, Cipro, Zenical
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Dear Friends:
I've been away and on return noted a large number of drug questions. So I
have decided to provide my opinion on them as a group.
Fluoxetine(Prozac)...while most of you know that I do not generally support
the use of Prozac in newborns, particularly those born of mothers who have
already received Prozac while pregnant...I am not absolutely adverse to the
use of Prozac in older babies. How old ? I don't really know, but
certainly infants 4-6 months and older could probably tolerate Prozac quite
adequately assuming the dose is minimal (20 mg/day).
Dostinex(cabergoline):
As you all know, there are times when discontinuing breastfeeding is
required. In the past we used a rather dangerous product called Parlodel.
And today I noted someone using it in a mom for some reason. However,
should this need arise again, I would suggest you review cabergoline
(Dostinex) in my newest book. It is a cousin of Parlodel but is much, much
safer. It very effectively (100%) inhibits lactation early postpartum by
inhibiting Prolactin.
Methylphenidate(Ritalin):
As of now, we have no data on its transfer into human milk. I suspect
small, but perhaps significant quantities might transfer. Ritalin is well
absorbed, has a small molecular weight(233), and is lipophilic, which
accounts for its entering the brain compartment. For these reasons alone,
it is likely to enter milk. Now I don't really know if this is still enough
to produce side effects in an infant, but I would be cautious. Observe for
stimulation and anorexia. If your baby stays awake all night, then you know
the reason.
Ciprofloxacin(Cipro):
The fluoroquinolones are generally contraindicated in pediatric patients,
but only relatively. We still use them in emergency situations such as
cystic fibrosis kids. The only problem with Cipro, is that its milk levels
may be slightly higher than other members of this family. Herein, the only
really dangerous condition, is the possible liklihood of overgrowth of c.
difficle and induction of pseudomembranous colitis (a bloody diarrhea). So
when needed in a breastfeeding mom, suitable choices are norfloxacin or
ofloxacin, whose milk levels are quite low.
Orlistat (Zenical):
The so called 'fat burner' is actually just the opposite. It inhibits
gastrointestinal lipoprotein lipase, thus inhibiting the absorption of
triglycerides (fats). Only 5% of orlistat is bioavailable and the plasma
levels are incredibly low (nanograms only). So I really doubt any would
enter milk. This drug is kind of interesting. Seems it may be useful in
helping individuals with high levels of PCBs and other lipophilic toxins rid
their body of these toxins. ( The toxins exit the body dissolved in the
unabsorbable fat in the gut).
Regards
Tom Hale, Ph.D.
www.perinatalpub.com
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:16:54 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "A. Bon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: hilarious picture
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Take a look at his, this is FUN!
http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/pict/papaborst.jpg
Annelies Bon (Dirk 8, Tom 7, Pieter 3)
http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bfbronnen.htm
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:15:40 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: kari novak <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: und
Subject: Breastfeeding & Breast Cancer
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Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:36:26 -0600
From: kari novak <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: und
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Subject: Breastfeeding & Breast Cancer
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My name is Kari Novak and I'm a nursing student at the University of
North Dakota. As I was researching breastfeeding and breast cancer, I
ran across an entry from a 25yo woman who has been breastfeeding for
about 7 months, when she discovered a large lump in her breast. When it
still existed two months later she went to her doctor and was referred
to a breast specialist who told her to come back after she was done
breastfeeding. It has been two months since her examination and she has
no plans of quitting breastfeeding and has found another lump on the
other breast. She has no family history of breast cancer, however is
still concerned. According to Scott-Conner (1997), when a breast mass
is discovered watchful waiting is no more appropriate during lactation
than at any other time and recommends a thorough work-up to rule out the
possibility of malignancy. Petok (1995), states the delay in diagnosing
breast cancer in lactating women has been considered the reason for poor
outcomes and recommends women being referred to a physician for
evaluation if a breast lump is not substantially reduced in size after
72 hours of treatment of mastitis-like symptoms, if the symptoms are
without fever and are not resolved after 10 day course of antibiotics,
if mastitis appears chronically at the same location and/or if pean
d'orange sign appears. Monthly breast self exams are also encouraged.
Also Makanjuola (1999), found symptomatic patients with bilateral
successful lactation had benign breast lesions such as simple
galactocele and fibroadenoma. Unilateral failure of lactation in a
symptomatic breast may signal serious breast pathology during lactation
and a thorough radiological evaluation including core biopsy of solid
lesions and mammography is therefore suggested. I'm wondering if there
are guidelines breastfeeding mothers are receiving for breast lumps in
such a case as this.
Thank You,
Kari Novak, Student Nurse
University of North Dakota
Makanjuola, D. (1999). A clinico-radiological coorelation of breast
disease during lactation and the significance of unilateral failure of
lactation. Western African Journal of Medicine, 17(4):217-23.
Petok, E. S. (1995). Breast cancer and breastfeeding:five cases.
Journal of Human Lactation, 11(3):205-9.
Scott-Conner, C. (1997). Diagnosing and managing breast disease during
pregnancy and lactation. Retrieved October 23, 1999 from the World Wide
Web. www.womenshealth.medscape.com.
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:25:56 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pollution
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Valerie,
Just some clarification...
It is my understanding that the environmentalists who conducted this
study were trying to show how much toxins we absorb and therefore prove
that we have a long-long way to go to "cleanup" the planet. I do not
believe that it was ever their intention to "dump" on breastmilk.
Breastmilk was just easier to obtain than human body fat.
The problem stems from the press, and the way they have presented this
research and the findings.
Or,
do you know something I don't?
Laura Wright
Jackson, MS, USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:35:35 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Maurenne Griese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hospital scheduling interfering with feeding
Comments: To: "Melissa V. Kirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
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What is so interesting about this whole thread (to me anyway)is that when I
bring this up on a LNC e-mail discussion list, they think I am crazy (well,
maybe I am crazy, but I'm not speaking in half truths!). There was
actually one LNC (legal nurse consultant) who actually asked, "When did
lactation become a medical legal issue?" Fortunately, a few perinatal
folks chimed in my defense and I also cited the Tabitha Walrond case and
they backed off. We also brought up how there is such a lack of knowledge
among some health care professionals regarding lactation that there is
malpractice abound and no one sues over it, not yet anyway.
Just something to think about.
Maurenne Griese, RNC, BSN, CCE, CBE
Manhattan, KS USA
[log in to unmask]
http://www.networksplus.net/griese
----------
> From: Melissa V. Kirsch <[log in to unmask]>
> To:
> Subject: Re: hospital scheduling interfering with feeding
> Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 11:42 AM
>
> I'm glad you said it Joanne, re: getting a lawyer, but I definitely
> thought it. This hospital is setting itself up for a lawsuit, IMO. How
> many babies are getting ABM, against the parents wishes, b/c of this
> policy?
> Melissa Vance, in the JD capacity.
>
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:33:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary Renard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: flu vaccine contraindicated while BF?
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Well, I finally got around to getting my flu vaccine today and was barely
listening as the screening nurse rattled off the questions - actually she
was making statements that I agreed with: "You haven't been sick with a
fever <shake my head no>..... You're not pregnant are you <no>...... And
you're not breastfeeding."
Well. THAT got my attention, but I didn't feel like making a scene in the
supermarket so I wimped out, thus doing a tremendous disservice to my
breastfeeding sisters who might need flu vaccines. :-( I really wanted
to ask, "Why on earth would that matter?" but to tell you the honest truth,
I figured if the company doing the vaccines was ignorant enough to include
this as a screening question, the person asking the question probably wasn't
informed enough to give me a good answer. And now that I've had time to
think about it, I am doubting my first gut reaction, so I ask you all:
There is NO reason why a breastfeeding mom couldn't get this killed-virus
vaccine, right? .
Mary Renard, RN, BSN, IBCLC
Vienna Virginia USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:48:28 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: touching breasts
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The problem I have with any video for Third World women that suggests they
not touch their breasts is that . . . . . . . . lots of women in Mali (my
only real Third World experience) have 3-4 foot long breasts. Yes, you
read that right. If they don't hold up the end of the breast and place the
nipple in the baby's mouth, then they're going to have to have the baby out
at the very end of their laps, or even on a chair, and do some pretty
bizarre manipulating of the baby. I've seen toddlers standing *behind*
their mothers, nursing, with the breast either thrown over the mother's
shoulder, or pulled around the side underneath her arm. I've seen a child
standing several feet away from the mother, holding the breast and nursing.
A much more logical recommendation, if they are worried about breast
contamination, is to have the mother wash her hands with soap and water
often. Not a bad recommendation for all mothers, everywhere, under all
circumstances. But babies in Third World countries are going to come into
contact with all sorts of contamination from many different sources. I
would not particularly worry about their mother's hands on their mother's
breasts, if I ran the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D. email:
[log in to unmask]
Anthropology Department phone: (409) 845-5256
Texas A&M University fax: (409) 845-4070
College Station, TX 77843-4352
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:53:02 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dosinex..are the effects irreversible?
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<I would suggest you review cabergoline (Dostinex) in my newest book.
It is a cousin of Parlodel but is much, much safer. It very effectively
(100%) inhibits lactation early postpartum by inhibiting Prolactin.>
I emerge from lurkdom to ask Dr. Hale about this med. I have a mom who
was given this upon presentation in the gyn ER with severe
engorgement. After taking about half the recommended dosage, she called
me asking why her milk is drying up and if it is too late to resume
breastfeeding. Dr. Hale's book says that the effects are irreversible.
Is it too late to try to relactate? How long before the drug is out
of her system and we could get her prolactin levels up? At the moment
she is pumping about 10 cc's with much effort every 2-3 hours.
I will see her on Sunday and will start her on an SNS.
I like Dianne's game. How many of us can name the LLL founding 7?
The most fun was putting faces to those famous names at the conference.
Someone should do a site with names and pics of all the who's who in
breastfeeding.
Esther Grunis, IBCLC, who has so many stories to tell you that I don't
know where to begin, but will save them for Washington next year. They
are for LC eyes only, not FC reps. From Tel Aviv where we just had our
first real rain, and maybe can finally put away the summer clothes.
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:53:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Clayton and Anne Nans <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More on Ezzo
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I wrote earlier about my own personal experience with Ezzo, and I'd like to
respond to Elishiva's well thought reply. I really needed the scheduling
tips from Babywise to help me organize my life with triplets, but I would
not recommend this book to patients, even mother's of multiples. Instead,
I would explain my own experiences and those of other mothers of higher
order multiples, and talk to them about how gentle scheduling can help them
find some sanity. I didn't know at the time I read the book that it was a
part of the larger "In God's Way" series. I, too, find it humorous to
think of Mary using a clock to schedule baby Jesus. I also feel that for
concrete thinkers, or those who see it as the way they must raise their
children rather than just another philosophy that they might want to take
bits and pieces from, would not benefit from this book. I also feel that
the parent's intuition is a very, very important tool, and should be
celebrated, and not ignored. If one of my families is a Babywise family, I
will make sure they understand that they know all the signs of a well
nourished baby, and also make sure that the babies are well nurtured, too.
Anne Nans, RN, IBCLC
Woodbridge, VA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:33:29 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pulling away
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The mom who sent me this email is nursing a 5 =BD month old and has a 2 =
=BD y/o
(Joseph) any advice would be appreciated.
It would seem to me a quiet place to feed would be best but with a 2 year
old at home that isnt possible. My thoughts include covering the baby with =
a
blanket while she nurses and when possible have dad play with the 2 y/o
while mom nurses.
What about treating the pulling away like biting by having mom take the =
baby
off and tell her =22no=22?
Ive checked this baby=27s mouth and it seems fine.
=22She is able to nurse perfectly when she chooses. Our
problem is that all day long she is distracted by
Joseph and tries to pull away while she is latched on.
I feel like a rubberband about to snap. She is also
nursing while holding the breast with both hands but
then she pushes away with her right hand, again
producing the rubberband effect. As you may guess
this is VERY painful. I think the reason she nurses
so much at night is because she is actually getting
very little food during the day ( she only nurses for
a minute or so per feeding). She nurses perfectly and
painlessly at night, but although I enjoy painfree
nursing, I=27d like to get some sleep. We have started
her on solids, so I=27m feeding her less frequently
during the day. =20
The biting and pinching I could live with, but the
=27rubberband=27 has got to to=21
See ya soon,
Mary=22
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
general pediatrician
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:rcordes=40psghs.edu
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:47:05 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 5 Nov 1999 - Special issue (#1999-181)
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:50:01 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: suggestion for wonderful ENT who does frenectomies
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Dear Friends:
Would Pat Gima's wonderful ENT to write up his experiences over the past
5 years with frenectomies and breastfeeding success (maybe co-authored by Pat
Gima) and publish it in Pediatrics or Journal of Pediatrics or Contemporary
Pediatrics? And help a lot of other people? It could be a letter to the
editor if writing a whole article isn't possible.
Warmly, Nikki Lee
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:55:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Dr. Tom Hale" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dostinex
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To : Ester
Re : Dostinex
It is not likely that once used, a mother can resume breastfeeding. This
drug has a really long half-life and would probably inhibit prolactin for
many days. T1/2 = 80 hours.
Regards
Tom Hale, Ph.D.
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:39:42 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Ann Calandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vacuum Extractor Story
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I have been working with a mom and baby for seven weeks now. He was went
into distress during labor, and doctor used a vacuum extractor to pull him
out. I saw him first at a week of age, when he was hospitalized in my
hospital for jaundice. He had a very long and bruised head. Mom's milk had
come in, but MD was having them supplement, and had been since birth since
he wouldn't nurse. Mom reported he was nursing well and she had plenty of
milk.
It soon became apparent that he was not nursing well and her milk supply was
going downhill fast. We began to do weekly weight checks, and I helped her
with her latch-on. He was getting 0.1 oz of milk after 20 minutes of
nursing the first week. She began pumping her milk and supplementing with
her milk when she had it. She used formula twice a day. On week three he
began to gain better, and for the past two weeks has been gaining about half
a pound a week, by nursing almost all day long, and getting one 4 ounce
supplement.
I knew from the start that his suck wasn't right. I suggested craniosacral
therapy for him, or work with a knowledgeable chiropractor. Mom wasn't
interested. She was highly skeptical.
This week he finally looks better, fuller and more alert. She told me he
wasn't smiling much, so I got him in my lap, got his attention, and talked
to him until he finally smiled. Only the left side of his mouth turns up
for a smile.
I got about 10 of these half smiles out of him, and he was never able to use
the right side of his mouth. I showed this to his mom. She has been a real
trooper about sticking with breastfeeding, despite his problems.
(Unusual where I work!)
Do you think I should try to get her to go for CS work somewhere? Is there
an article or something I could share with her to help her believe this
might help him? I believe this has been his problem all along, he has not
been able to latch and nurse well, with only half of his mouth working well.
I would appreciate suggestions.
Ann Calandro, RNC,IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:41:24 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: body fat
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"Breastmilk was just easier to obtain than human body fat."
I have plenty (human body fat) I'd be more than willing to donate. Please,
researchers, come take it away!
Cathy B.
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:51:13 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Denise Punger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: kidsgrowth/flu shot
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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One last word about kidsgrowth from me. As the health care professional in
me read Denny Rice's response, I thought it looked really great. Most 2.5
year olds would have no problem with her gentle plan. I am glad she took the
initiative for change.
But as William's mama my self esteem was real bruised as I read the part
about not given into tantrums and that I would regret it. I wondered regret
what? The point I would like to simply make is if a mom comes to you with a
2.5 yo child or older who cries an hour or until he vomits and decides to
give in to the tantrum, think about William. Give this mom alot of
encouragement on her breastfeeding accomplishments and remind her of all the
long term health benefits to continue breastfeeding. Sharing my unique
experiences does help empower me to continue a mutual beneficial nursing
relationship.
Now that my bruise is healed onto another topic. I am not aware of any
contraindication to receive the flu shot while breastfeeding. Don't get the
injection if you are pregnant. I want to right more about why doctors write
so many antibiotic prescriptions, but I will need more time.
Denise Punger MD
http://doctor.medscape.com/denisepungermd
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:55:00 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Parlodel
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
I remember that when this was in widespread use, we heard reports of a
rebound effect when it was discontinued, with milk coming in, perhaps not
quite so fully, but engorgement nevertheless when it was stopped.
If she started off with more than one dose a day, would it be prudent to
taper off a little more each 48 hours to give time to observe for any
rebound effect? Just a thought.
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:59:35 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Denise Punger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: navy
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Another question: I am really excited that my sister is 6 weeks pregnant and
she believes in breastfeeding. Her husband is military(navy) and she wants
to get referred out of the navy OB program to have a midwife and/or
homebirth. Does anyone have experience with how she could get herself
referred out. She has already been told by a "staff member" in the clinic
that she has no choice. The navy insurance will only cover her care in the
OB dept. She lives in Goosecreek SC. With all the experience my sister I
have we don't think she will have a satisfying birth experience in the navy.
Thanks, Denise Punger, Florida
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:06:03 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jenny Bowen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fenugreek/BP update
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Mom did contact her PCP. He increased her BP medication and did not feel =
there was a relationship with the fenugreek. Today her head ache is gone =
and her BP is back down and she is taking the fenugreek. Thank you to all =
who responded.
Jenny Bowen RN, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 19:55:45 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Rachael Barlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ezzo - anybody done it
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I tried it for 5 horrendous days. I had a child with colic for 7
months.(After becoming desperate and CALLING Dr. Sears, I discovered
reflux). Anyways, I was in LLL at the time but instincts - I just wanted her
to be comfortable. Preparation for PArenthood claimed that babies with colic
in the hospital were put on this program and their pain went away. I had
spent 8 weeks at that point praying and crying to God and hearing nothing -
a desert experience if you will. I was taken in by the promise of pain
releif for my poor baby and the smattering of scripture which I had not seen
in any other parenting books. I stopped because I was hysterical, prostrate
on the floor, screaming at God and I heard him tell me to research Ezzo on
the web. I felt that was the Holy Spirit finally saying something and what I
learned stopped me cold in my tracts. I cannot describe the torment of her
crying for her or for me, and I had extremely modified their program.
Now, when I find parents into that, I advise them to pray hard and ask for
guidance. Then understand that their instincts might just be the Holy Spirit
talking to them. Ignoring their instincts may be ignoring God's
instructions. I am sure that anyone who opens their heart to God, will hear
his answer.
Rachael Barlow
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:02:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robin/Joan MacNeil <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nipples in the Media
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This one really says it all. Found it while surfing and nursing.
http://www.absurdgallery.com/nip.html
Joan
**********
Joan MacNeil, RN, BScN, IBCLC
Halifax NS Canada
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:15:44 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joan Edelstein <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Breastfeeding & Breast Cancer
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I haven't seen protocols but I'd suggest she get herself a second
opinion stat and do some heavy self advocating. I, too, have a dear
friend who discovered a lump in her 9th month of breastfeeding. She w=
ent
in immediately and it was a large, malignant tumor. She was treated
aggressively with mastectomy and chemo, experiencing surgical menopau=
se
at 42. Since she is a pediatric oncologist she knew where to get her
info and had no trouble in decision making.=20
This did indeed interfere with breastfeeding but the general agreemen=
t
was that it was better for her 3 children to have a mother than for h=
er
to continue breastfeeding. There is NEVER any excuse IMHO to ignore a
breast lump.
My 2=A2 worth,
Joan
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:11:05 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jenny Bowen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ABM and breastmilk combined bad for digestion?
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We have a nutrition task force looking into this now. After reviewing Dr. =
Richard Schanler, Dr. John Kerner, and Dr. A. Lucas's work we are working =
on these guidelines for providing supplement for our premies who's lab =
results show they need more Ca/Phos, or those who are having trouble =
gaining weight on breast milk alone.
Add powder Human Milk Fortifier When: 1. Mom has enough breast milk. 2. =
Main concern of not causing as much interruption of immunities. 3. Not =
having a problem with metabolic acidosis.
Using high cal Formula 1:1 with breast milk when: 1. we need higher than =
24 cal/oz. 2. Mom's production is low. 3. Main concern is weight gain. =
the breastmilk helps fat absorption.
(Do not mix in advance. The less time they are mixed together the less the =
immunities are disrupted.)
If only 22cal/oz is needed alternate a breastmilk feeding with a feeding =
of 24 cal/oz premie formula.
If our rational seems lacking please let us know. We would like to get =
away with not supplementing at all but at this point it is not an option. =
We have asked some of the experts how to do this. Poss. liberalize the =
fluids?
Kim Sweet RN, IBCLC
(I'm at work Jenny and I share a computer)
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:13:32 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: flu vaccine
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Mary
I clipped a small article from Texas Wic News, Nov 97 I believe, and I have
it at work posted. I copied it and gave to the nursery and posted in our
lounge as we got MANY calls this year on this. It says flu vaccine OK, gives
CDC as ref.
I wonder if this means that more moms are bf or more are getting the flu
vaccine?
BTW Texas WIC News is a fabulous publication. Of course it deals with Texas
(USA) WIC activities but there are lots of great articles in there on bf -
which is a major part of this publication. Recently there was one on alcohol
and "recreational" drug use and bf. So sorry I do not have it at home, I
cannot site the author(s). Some of you Texans, can you help?
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, s.e. USA
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:28:19 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cabergoline
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Dostinex(cabergoline):
<It is a cousin of Parlodel but is much, much
safer. It very effectively (100%) inhibits lactation early postpartum by
inhibiting Prolactin. >
Tom,
The case recently posted I believe was of a woman with huge oversupply. She
had tried cabbage, sage, I believe. Nothing helped so she was prescribed
parlodel. She wanted to cont. lactating but not to the extent that she was
with gallons extra in the freezer. To follow-up what Esther is asking, would
cabergoline be appropriate in such a case? If not, what then?
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, s.e. USA
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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:11:09 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Darlene A Breed <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Prescriptions for donor milk
Laura,
I am the coordinator of the Regional Milk Bank in Worcester, MA.
Darlene Breed, BSN, RN, IBCLC
Milk Bank & Breastfeeding Center
Worcester, MA (USA)
>Are you near to a Milk Bank? Is that why the doctors in your area are
>more informed? Or are you getting them to attend educational meetings
>and seminars?
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:30:10 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy and Paul Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: navy
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> Another question: I am really excited that my sister is 6 weeks
> pregnant and
> she believes in breastfeeding. Her husband is military(navy) and she wants
> to get referred out of the navy OB program to have a midwife and/or
> homebirth. Does anyone have experience with how she could get herself
> referred out. She has already been told by a "staff member" in the clinic
> that she has no choice. The navy insurance will only cover her care in the
> OB dept. She lives in Goosecreek SC. With all the experience my sister I
> have we don't think she will have a satisfying birth experience
> in the navy.
Well, for what it is worth, I have had 2 births in military facilities. One
at an Army Medical Center (horrible experience) and one at a Navy Hospital
(very good experience). At the Navy hospital I asked for lots of "special"
things (no IV, no fetal monitoring, walking during labor, no episiotomy, no
artificial nipples, etc). I wrote a birth plan and every single one of my
requests was honored. There were a few weird things (like no sanitary
napkins on the ward and 18 year old male medics who were overwhelmed at the
mere idea of a postpartum woman) but overall, it was a very nice experience.
My last birth was a CHAMPUS financed homebirth attended by a licensed
midwife. Your sister needs to call her CHAMPUS/Tricare service center and
talk with them The system is very complicated and the average hospital
employee may not clearly understand the system. I wouldn't take their word
for it.
Kathy, currently waiting on hold with Tricare to report my daughter's newly
broken arm and long time Navy wife
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"Children in a family are like flowers in a bouquet: there's always one
determined to face in an opposite direction from the way the arranger
desires."- Marcelene Cox
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:54:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Becky Flora, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PMS for 4 months but no period
Hi all,
I am working with a mom who is breastfeeding her 9 month old. Mom has had
horrible PMS symptoms at the same time each month for 4 months now, but
still no period. She has an appointment with her DR per my advice for next
month. She is still concerned and so I told her I would post to see if any
of you had ever run across a similar set of circumstances. Are there any
safe treatments she can use while breastfeeding; ie herbs, OTC?
Thanks!
Becky Flora, IBCLC
Kingspor
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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:39:11 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: New copies of WAB
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Dear Pam, great idea! I've never met a rich LLL group yet :-) Sincerely,
Pat in SNJ
> Pat suggests La Leche groups need to donate fresh copies of
> the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding to their public
> libraries. We do even better. We just sold them two, and
> the new Breastfeeding Your Premature Baby. If you can't be
> rich, be clever.
> Pam Easterday LLLL Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:48:59 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rock Stars of the Lactation World
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I get KA's arguments vs such a list, because every one who has helped
another mom or crawled thru the alligator swamps in order to nurse her
baby vs great odds is a BF star, but at the same time it is neat to look
at the rich history and myriad of people from all walks of life who have
furthered the cause of BF. We know most of these people thru their
writings and talks at conferences and it is interesting to look back. Some
people are readers and some are listeners and others are watchers. We all
learn in different ways, so the variety of styles and messages is a plus.
One q. was Ardan the one who did the neat stuff with suck and x rays?
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:22:19 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Flu vaccine
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No! And good reason to, so you can better protect your baby.
I had a similar experience last year and of course, I got a standard, "We
don't want to get sued.' response.
Even last week, one of the docs asked me, " Its OK, right?".
And yes, I got mine last month and Nick is still kicking. Chris Betzold MSN
NP CLE
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:26:22 -0600
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From: Kris Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: navy
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I wouldn't know about current policies, but when my husband was in the
Air Force 20 years ago, I told the Air Force doctors that I wanted a
Leboyer delivery for my third child. Since they were unable (unwilling)
to provide such a delivery, they agreed to let me use CHAMPUS and go to
the nearest town to give birth to my son instead of at the base
hospital. (I didn't really get a Leboyer delivery, but I did have a
wonderful, unmedicated natural delivery and was home 8 hours later,
which is something the military doctors couldn't give me, either.)
Kris Rogers, RN, IBCLC
Crystal Lake, IL
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 00:20:44 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: All this talk about toxins in the body!
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In a message dated 11/5/99 6:21:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< The dad that was worried about TOXINS in breastmilk, better find himself
and
artificial womb to grow his babies in!
>>
Ok, I'm getting a little worried here. Being pregnant does that to a person I
guess. I haven't been able to find any research and am unwilling to listen
to the platitudes of my OB.
I have lost more weight (and inches) since becoming pregnant than in the 4
1/2 years since my son was born. Am becoming fairly concerned about the
amount of toxins that the baby is being exposed to. Unfortunately I have yet
to be able to keep down enough to stop the weight loss.
If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Sorry to
post personals to the list.
Cheryl Tompkins CLC
Phoenix AZ USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 01:04:20 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Name game
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
I think you have a very good point. I wonder if IBCLE is ready for that
yet though.
While we can't yet claim that anyone ranks up there with Semmelwiess in
Obstetrics, or has a blank building column waiting for her/his name, it
certainly would be an impetus to study the foundations and philosophy of
the 20th Century Lactation Support Revival Movement!
Maybe such a summary biographical review is waiting for you to write it!
"The International Who's Who in the Lactation Field"! (Trouble with you
wrting it is, I think your name ought to be right in there too!) Or maybe
it needs to be a group effort!
Be sure to include Jeanne Watson Driscoll. And Karin Cadwell. And what
about Michael Newton? And Harold Waller? And Herbert Ratner and Gregory
White? The list could go on and on. When all is said and done, would it
ever be said and done? A yearly edition next! Or "Poke-Lac trading
cards"?
Sorry Diane. I just couldn't resist!
Jean
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 08:34:21 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dostinex
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Dear Dr. Hale,
Thanks for your quick reply. Now I will have to do the " your baby can
also grow on ABM and at least he got colostrum in the early days"
speech. To quote Jack: "AAAAAAAARRRRRGH!!!"
Esther Grunis, IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:51:24 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Victoria K. Carr" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: navy/homebirth
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to the woman who desires to be referred out of military care to have a
homebirth or midwife, she is more than welcome to contact me - my air force
hubby & i have had all ours (4) at home, three times out of pocket, last one
paid by champus/tricare. it was worth the hassle every time :)
victoria carr
student & apprentice midwife
anxhorage, ak
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:12:04 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: The Curries <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lactose Intolerance & Dummies.
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We recently had an epidemic of "Lactose Intolerance" in our town, in
fact the Paed would warn mothers in hospital about the baby getting Lactose
Intolerance. I challenged the doctor and told him that the babies needed
more hindmilk and that it was in fact "Lactose Overload" and he said it had
not been substantiated! OH YEAH! So I showed him "Baby-controlled
Breastfeeding" by Michael Woolridge (Breastfeeding-Biocultural Perspectives
by our Kathy) and Joy Anderson's Lactose Intolerance - INSTANT
TRANSFORMATION!!! He has never mentioned LI ever again. He tells the
moms that they must feed at one breast long enough to ensure that the baby
gets enough hindmilk.
I e-mailed our Kathy, a while ago, to tell that a mother I know, who
works at a creche told me that children that suck dummies just sit and suck
their dummies, that they don't interact with their surroundings and play
with the other children. She does not breastfeed and these are strictly
her observations. Dummies = pacificers.
I know what churches are presenting the Ezzo's course and I have every
intention of sending them information. I just thank you all for supplying
the sites on information.
Cheers,
Barbie Currie. White River, Mpumalanga. South Africa.
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:06:20 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lactose Intolerance & Dummies.
In-Reply-To: <00cf01bf282f$7992c8e0$20ccef9b@muncher>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Barbie Currie writes:
> We recently had an epidemic of "Lactose Intolerance" in our town, in
>fact the Paed would warn mothers in hospital about the baby getting Lactose
>Intolerance. I challenged the doctor
Great stuff!
<snip>
> He tells the
>moms that they must feed at one breast long enough to ensure that the baby
>gets enough hindmilk.
But this - while a huge improvement on what he was telling mothers before -
is still of concern. We get this all the time here - mothers being 'warned'
about the length of time babies 'must' feed on one breast. Then mothers get
worried in case their babies are not feeding long enough. We get calls from
mothers of healthy, thriving babies, where bf is going really well - and
because the baby comes off spontaneously after x, or y, or z, minutes, the
mother (or the HP) gets anxious in case that's not long enough.
HPs have got the idea of hindmilk and foremilk, but they are interpreting
it as just another way bf can go wrong.
<sigh>
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 07:43:05 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: flu vaccine
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Flu vaccine is recommended for:
ANY person who wishes to reduce the likelihood of becoming ill with
influenza as long as the person is 6 months of age or older and has no
contraindications to the vaccine;
ALL persons 65 years of age and over;
adults and children who have chronic disorders of the pulmonary or
cardiovascular systems, including asthma;
HCPs
women who will be in the second or third trimester of pregnancy (greater
than or equal to 14 weeks gestation) during the influenza season;
pregnant women who have medical conditions that increase their risk for
complications from influenza should be vaccinated before the influenza
season - regardless of the stage of pregnancy. ACIP
Any household member of people in high risk groups;
travelers
and lots of other categories that I won't bother to list. This info is
available from ACIP, CDC and IAC Express.
You probably know by now that I am a pro-vaccine person. Let's not go into
a pro-con vaccine argument - OK?
20,000 people are expected to die from flu in US alone this winter -
20,000!!!
Yes, I push flu shots in our inner city practice because everyone is high
risk by virtue of economic status, over crowding, smoking, poor nutrition
(not much breastfeeding) etc, etc , etc. I actually see flu shots make a
difference. And I am dreading the arrival of flu season.
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:05:09 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pulling away
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Some babies are extremely nibby and distractable at this age. Moms have to
resort to taking them into darkened bedrooms, all alone, for daytime
nursing.
>What about treating the pulling away like biting by having mom take the
baby
>off and tell her "no"?
I'd use this idea in the darkened bedroom. It's a phase and will probably
pass. And mom and baby can come out into the world again eventually :-)
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:09:02 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: vacuum extraction
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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sounds like a little brain damage to me :-( I'd encourage mom to use chiro
or CS spec after baby is seen by neurologist and has his MRI or CT scan.
We wouldn't want to have chiro or CS tx blamed eventually for the
deficits! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:00:59 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hilarious picture
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Annelies, please tell us the source or the reason behind this pix. I think
it is more pathetic than fun :-( Thanks, Pat in SNJ
> Take a look at this, this is FUN!
>
> http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/pict/papaborst.jpg
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 08:34:04 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Melissa V. Kirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TX Wic News (was Flu Vaccine)
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Just wanted to add to Laurie statement's about TX WIC News. This
publication gives great information about BF. I have no idea how other
state WIC programs publish info. as to compare, but I've been very
impressed with the info.
Melissa Vance
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:24:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dostinex
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I'm not totally sure I agree with Tom on this one. Yes, Dostinex will
suppress prolactin for 12 days, but I don't think that means it is
irretrivable. I would continue nursing with SNS and pumping and wait to
see what happens after the 12 days. We used to see rebound lactation with
parlodel after it was DC'd. We know women who have never been pg can
bring in milk with breast stim. The body is an amazing thing. I'd give it
a chance. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:28:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: new "rules"
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Dear Laurie, I love your new version of "the rules". A real keeper! Needs
to be widely disseminated. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
> Rule #1 is feed the baby.
> Rule #2 is support the milk supply.
> Rule #3 is fix the breastfeeding.
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 08:47:01 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ezzo
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I guess what I really meant when I said "Why don't some Christians set Ezzo
straight" is I think it is going to have to be an inside job. I mean, someone
from the outside would be immediately discounted because well, after all, they
aren't Christian and how could they know about "Christian Parenting."
I appreciate the responses about what is already being done. I still think it
might be good to point out to Mr. Ezzo that people from outside the religion
don't understand and they might look at this controversy and think poorly of the
religion because of it. Just an idea.
Susan
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:00:55 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Cindy Curtis, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hilarious picture { Annelies Bon }
I believe the picture if from Annelies Bon web site, I think she is on the
list, maybe she can explain?
Thanks!
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:25:51 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN IBCLC, Dallas TX" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: Osteoporosis during Lactation
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Check out the way a young woman with pregnancy/lactational osteoporosis
was treated at:
http://www.obgyn.net/pb/pb.htm
OSTEOPOROSIS DURING PREGNANCY AND
LACTATION
by
Maria-Luisa Bianchi, M.D.,
OBGYN.net Editorial Advisor
--
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas Texas USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 11:40:16 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: founding LLL women
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I would have to add the seven amazing women who started LLL to this list.
They are responsible for bringing breastfeeding back to our Western Culture,
in my opinion.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:54:19 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN IBCLC, Dallas TX" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: hilarious picture
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Someone needs to tell this guy about the SNS or Lactaid or the
Austraillian version (sorry, can't think of the name)!
> http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/pict/papaborst.jpg
--
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas Texas USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 17:53:32 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "A. Bon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hilarious picture
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Annelies, please tell us the source or the reason behind this pix. I think
>it is more pathetic than fun :-( Thanks, Pat in SNJ
>
>> Take a look at this, this is FUN!
>>
>> http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/pict/papaborst.jpg
someone sent it to me, with the only comment this was one of a set of pictures of Japanese
'inventions'. She found it incredible ridiculous and laughable, and so do I.
sorry I do not know more about it....
regards,
Annelies Bon
http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bfbronnen.htm
counsellor of the Dutch bf organization "Borstvoeding Natuurlijk"
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:02:45 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "A. Bon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Osteoporosis during Lactation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>Check out the way a young woman with pregnancy/lactational osteoporosis
>was treated at:
>
>http://www.obgyn.net/pb/pb.htm
>
> OSTEOPOROSIS DURING PREGNANCY AND
> LACTATION
> by
> Maria-Luisa Bianchi, M.D.,
> OBGYN.net Editorial Advisor
I'm no docter, but this story sounds familiair to me. The pain the women complains about
looks like pelvic laxity, a pain caused by a very small fraiction in the pelvic bones, due
to the pregnancy hormones (relaxine) and/or heavy delivery (not in her case).
In the scandinavian countries there is much knowledge about this, as is in our country. I've
learned that in angelsaksic countires this is pretty unknown.
Treatment is: combination of rest and good exercises, combined with wearing a bandage around
the hips, to give extra support to the pelvis. The choice of the exercices is important. A
lot of common exercises makes it worse.
in most of the time this condition hreals itself, but in some women it doesn't. Sometimes it
takes years, and some women suffer from it for their whole lives.
as with everything, very often breastfeedfing is blamed for it , but this is shown not to be
true.
regards,
Annelies Bon
http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bfbronnen.htm
counsellor of the Dutch bf organization "Borstvoeding Natuurlijk"
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:04:40 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lugol's solution
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Frank, and Tom,
Do any of you have info on the safety of Lugol's solution (5% iodine I've
been told) during breastfeeding?
I have a patient whose mom has Grave's disease and the surgeon asked me
about this because he would like to give mom a 10 day course in December
prior to thyroid surgery. I'm thinking the baby will be 4 months old then.
Tom's 98-99 book doesn't address this drug directly other than strongly
cautioning about iodine use while nursing. Briggs 1994 edition says the AAP
considers iodine expectorants compatible.
Thanks for any help.
Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
general pediatrician
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:17:14 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Book recommendations
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Elisheva says, speaking of Babywise:
<< And please, when you mention the book to others, add some mention of
stooling to those "getting enough" recommendations! A baby that is peeing
enough will not die of dehydration, but she can still starve to death, and
pretty quick, too.
>>
I would hope that no one would have occasion to recommend this book to
others. What is good in the book, is not unique and can be found in other,
less controversial sources. Needing to "schedule" higher order multiples may
be a matter of understanding your own AND your babies' needs. But using the
principles of BW to do it can be potentially dangerous to babies unless you
know your mothers WELL. What is unique in these books are NOT good. One of
the major problems with this book is that it places ALL babies into a box
with no understanding of the uniqueness of that baby and that mother and that
family. It's all well and good to imply that smart parents can take the good
and spit out the bad in this book -- but smart parents have been taken in by
the spurious promises of sleeping through the night and compliant obedient
children. Please, please do not recommend these books to anyone. Feel free
to read them if you are not familiar with them -- I suggest you borrow them
as to not put any more money into the Growing Families International coffers.
While there have been a few changes over the years to bring the
recommendations more in line with "mainstream" understanding of lactation
principles, never forget that the book pans lactation consultants by telling
the parents that we do not understand that there is a "basic paradigm shift
in the industry" and that "lactation consultants, by virtue of their training
in attachment parenting do not have an understanding of routine lactation
management principles." (Not an exact quote -- don't have the book right in
front of me).
If you have a parent who is stressed out by demand feeding, then you have a
responsibility to help her figure out how she can better meet the needs of
her child/ren and not be so stressed. If you have babies that are stressed
out and shutting down because of scheduled feeds, you have a responsibility
to that mother/baby dyad to help her figure out how to better meet the baby's
needs. Recognizing the uniqueness of families and how to approach their
parenting skills is one of the things that IBCLCs and breastfeeding advocates
can do best. We are the ones that truly listen to these mothers -- or at
least I hope we do. And I hope we are flexible in meeting the needs of our
clients.
Any parenting program that ends up with depressed, anorexic babies, slow
weight gain, feeding tubes, and failure to thrive as a result of that program
should be universally panned by our profession. And that is true of the
Preparation for Parenting/Babywise programs. Or ANY program that treats all
mothers and babies as though they are identical, and that can potentially
lead to problems.
Attachment parenting means to learn about your baby, and meet the needs of
this particular individual in relationship with you and your family. It
doens't mean "don't discipline." It doesn't mean letting your child run
amock. It doesn't mean that there is no routine in your home. It doesn't
mean you are, as Babywise defines it, "feeding every two hours around the
clock for 2 years." It doesn't mean putting the baby to the breast every
time he/she whimpers without determining what the baby's needs are. It
doesn't mean blindly, slavishly following a "program."
But BW states that "These principles have worked for thousands of parents,
and WHEN FAITHFULLY APPLIED will work for you." The meaning behind it is,
"if you run into problems, it is YOUR fault, not the fault of the program or
the writings in the book." And Gary Ezzo has said that -- in fact, just said
it again on the BBC program when he was interviewed by Jeremy Paxman in the
UK.
I better stop -- because I could go on about this and the dangers of this
program, this book, and these principles for a long time. And the feeding
issues are merely the tip of the iceburg.
Jan Barger, RN, MA, IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:37:27 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Valerie Mcclain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pollution
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Laura, I believe that your post, "...my understanding that the
environmentalists who conducted this study were trying to show how much
toxins we absorb and therefore prove that we have a long-long way to go
to "cleanup" the planet..the problem stems from the press, and the way
they have presented this research and the findings," has made me realize
the need to be more clear and accurate in my posts. I was trying to
work from memory and that's not a very good thing to do. My comments
reflect my reading a rather interesting book called, "Our Stolen
Future," by Theo Colborn, Dianne Dumanoski, and John Peterson Myers(A
Dutton Book,1996). Theo Colborn is a senior scientist with the the
World Wildlife Fund and a recognized expert on endocrine-disrupting
chemicals. Diane Dumanoski is a reporter from the Boston Globe. And
John Myers has a Ph.D. in Zoology and formerly the Senior Vice President
for Science at the National Audubon Society. The premise of the book
seems to me to be the discovery that plastics are not inert ingredients
and that some chemicals from plastics are hormonally active. At one
point in the book they talk about the contamination of breast milk by
PCB's among the Inuit people in the Arctic. According to the authors,
Canadian health officials told the villagers about the high level of
contamination found in their bodies. The news that breast milk also
carrried these chemicals made one woman decide to stop nursing. She
bottle fed her infant a mixture of water and Coffee-mate. Yep, the baby
had to be hospitalized. No comment was made in the book about this kind
of tragedy brought on by fears of chemical contamination. The book does
not advise against breastfeeding but I do believe that the way it is
presented leads one to believe that they believe cow's milk formula
safer. One of the many scary statistics they use about breastfeeding is
that in 6 months of breastfeeding a baby will receive the maximum
recommended lifetime dose of dioxin. Of interest or maybe not, Vice
President Al Gore wrote the foreword to the book. I would rcommend the
book because I hope you'll read it and write the authors with some good
comments. I wrote them but I never got a response(not that I thought
they would respond). I sent them the ILCA reprint on the risks of
formula. Anyway, Laura, my comments were related to this book and their
use of the studies on the Great Lakes contamination. Valerie W.
McClain, IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:50:05 -0500
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hilarious picture
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I find the expression of the face of the man in the picture *really*
interesting, what you can see of it. He looks so studious, so serious. But
WHAT is he doing???
Cathy B.
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:57:32 EST
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From: Judi Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Ezzo's
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This has been tackled from the "inside," and the response seems to be that
they are misunderstood. The Christian Research Institute published a well
researched paper in their Journal. I did not read the article, but I did
hear a radio broadcast defending it. They offered a balanced approach, siting
the good as well as the bad. Major Christian organizations have separated
themselves from the rigid teachings. The bottom line is that the Bible is
God's Word and instruction book to us and there is nothing there to go along
with some of the Ezzo teachings, especially concerning feeding. As a
Christian, I fed my babies when they were hungry, carried them most of the
time, and slept with them for years. They are great kids.
Judi Hall, RNC, IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:00:53 -0500
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PMS for 4 months but no period
Comments: To: "Becky Flora, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
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Becky -
I doubt if this periodic PMS is of concern - it's probably her FSH/estrogen
balance stirring around, trying to work up to the "real thing". I got this
post-hysterectomy - kind of wierd to still be aware of those old cyclic
rhythms without the bleeding to really remind you what's going on. One thing
about that menstrual period, it keeps you on track; now that mine is gone, I
sort of view it (the bleeding) as the symtom, the marker, rather than the
main event.
Evening Primrose Oil? Extra Calcium? A little gentle stretching-type
exercise?
Cathy Bargar RN IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:19:29 EST
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From: "Jane C. Crotteau RNC, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: name game
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Let us not forget Jeanne Driscoll-I still love her video-Better Beginnings.
Jane in southern N.H.
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:29:03 -0500
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: flu vaccine contraindicated while BF? (slight long)
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Mary,
Regarding vaccines while breastfeeding, As I've posted before, they are OK.
The reference is in
the ACIP "General Recommendations on Immunization: Recommendations of the
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices" MMWR, January 28, 1994, Vol.
43, No. RR-1, p. 20. Here's the quote: "Neither killed nor live vaccines
affect the safety of breast-feeding for mothers or infants. Breast-feeding
does not adversely affect immunization and is not a contraindication for any
vaccine."
Specifically regarding flu vaccine, from the CDC web site:
http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00057028.htm
"Target Groups for Vaccination (flu vaccine)
Persons at High Risk for Influenza-Related Complications
Vaccination is recommended for the following groups of persons who are at
increased risk for complications from influenza:
persons aged greater than or equal to 65 years;
residents of nursing homes and other chronic-care facilities that house
persons of any age who have chronic medical
conditions;
adults and children who have chronic disorders of the pulmonary or
cardiovascular systems, including asthma;
adults and children who have required regular medical follow-up or
hospitalization during the preceding year because of
chronic metabolic diseases (including diabetes mellitus), renal
dysfunction, hemoglobinopathies, or immunosuppression
(including immunosuppression caused by medications);
children and teenagers (aged 6 months to 18 years) who are receiving
long-term aspirin therapy and therefore might be
at risk for developing Reye syndrome after influenza; and
women who will be in the second or third trimester of pregnancy during
the influenza season.
Influenza-associated excess mortality among pregnant women wa documented
during the pandemics of 1918-1919 and
1957-1958 (46-49). Case reports and limited studies also suggest that
pregnancy can increase the risk for serious medical
complications of influenza as a result of increases in heart rate, stroke
volume, and oxygen consumption; decreases in lung
capacity; and changes in immunologic function (50-53)"
You read right on that last one. a lot of people including physicians are
not aware of it. See the web site for more details on this.
And of course, the following:
"Breastfeeding Mothers
Influenza vaccine does not affect the safety of mothers who are
breastfeeding or their infants. Breastfeeding does not adversely
affect immune response and is not a contraindication for vaccination. "
I have recently recommend the parents (mom breastfeeding) of a NICU grad get
flu vaccines as the bay can't because she is less than 6 months old.
Unfortunate those giving the vaccine didn't have all the facts. Vaccines are
the greatest thing since mother's milk. You didn't think I'd say sliced
bread did you? Wait let me re-phrase that.
Car seats are the greats thing since vaccines which are the greatest thing
since baseball, the greatest thing since the domestic dog, the greatest
thing since mothers milk.
-Rob (who is very curious how the coming nasal flu vaccine will affect sIgA
in milk. Immunize 2 for the price of one?)
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
general pediatrician
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:00:31 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Funny picture
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http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/pict/papaborst.jpg
You did all notice that he is holding a DOLL, not a real baby, didn't you??
Kathy D.
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:18:29 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Touching breasts (long)
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Kathy D., you wrote:
<The problem I have with any video for Third World women that suggests
they
not touch their breasts is that . . . . . . . . lots of women in Mali (my
only real Third World experience) have 3-4 foot long breasts. Yes, you
read that right. If they don't hold up the end of the breast and place
the
nipple in the baby's mouth, then they're going to have to have the baby
out
at the very end of their laps, or even on a chair, and do some pretty
bizarre manipulating of the baby. I've seen toddlers standing *behind*
their mothers, nursing, with the breast either thrown over the mother's
shoulder, or pulled around the side underneath her arm. I've seen a
child
standing several feet away from the mother, holding the breast and
nursing.>
Kathy, I agree with the rest of your post about the hand washing. But
please enlighten me on the above-fascinating piece of information like a
missing piece of the puzzle always going on in my mind about anatomy and
physiology of the breast.
As a child, I had seen similar illustrations in National Geograpic. I've
seen video(s) or photos of women of other cultures grasping behind the
nipple, stretching their subareolar tissue upward/forward for an inch or
two, with the heavy breast tugging below it.
I don't know if this was in the immediate context of getting ready to
feed, or express or what. But I have always wondered whether young women,
having seen it done openly, might not attempt imitation and
experimentation prenatally, amounting to a certain degree of prenatal
preparation for breastfeeding.
As a 5'6" woman with enough droop that I picked the center of my breast
bone as a certain point of reference, 36" reached midway between my knee
and my ankle, and 48" came to the joint of my big toe. I can't imagine
what my life would be like with breasts that long!
Is it just the difference in clothing (lack of bra/support) all of their
reproductive life that results in this? Or is it some sort of inbred
thing among the women, and what is the progression from menarche to
menopause? Native women elsewhere stretched neck, ear lobes etc. Do they
stretch their breasts in some special way?
I am working with a mother now with what I term "functional retraction of
the nipple" (also, their circumference was the size of a nickel) with DD
cup breasts and a "pithy, doughy, edematous texture" of her subareolar
tissue, and I was unable to palpate milk sinuses or express even a drop
of colostrum when I first saw her at 34 weeks g.a.
25-30 years ago, I would have suggested she use aggressive (per old
Egnell references) prenatal vacuum intervention from at least 37 weeks on
till term, and then postpartum if necessary. I am convinced that it gave
the mothers with severely non-protractile nipples the advantage of a more
even playing (feeding) field, though I have not yet figured out a way to
prove this.
That was way back when we had general anesthetics, routine delayed and
timed feedings and nothing but a bicycle horn pump and 2 kinds of
shields- thick rubber, or plexiglass and rubber, and no real postpartum
followup past 4-5 days in the hospital for most mothers. (Clandestine)
medicine droppers were the only "assistive feeding tools" I had besides
rubber nipples. Spoons and cups would have been unthinkable.
Someone referred her for shells. But in light of the worldwide
disagreement over the subject, along with the shells and my suggestions
for reverse pressure tissue softening at bathtime (Hoffman, essentially),
I gave her the BMJ article that concluded that rather than take the
chance of discouraging a mother from trying to nurse, it was better not
to examine the function of the nipples, let alone suggest any
intervention.
I told her my past experience gave me a strong difference of opinion
about their conclusions. I offered to come for home visits after
delivery till nursing was well established, no matter what she chose to
do prenatally. It was agreed that I would do this in exchange for my own
clinical education to follow the results. She chose essentially to do
nothing, wearing the shells "occasionally for 20 minutes" she said, and
massaging the breast itself at bathtime. I loaned her Renfrew/Fisher/Arms
"Bestfeeding" to read.
At 42 weeks g.a., she had a midwife-attended birth in a hospital, of a
6#9 oz. boy (no circ), with what I would call a minimum of labor,
delivery and nursery intervention COMPARED to MOST women in our city.
The tight frenulum was recognized, but the pediatrician said "Wait and
see", but also ordered a small supplementation with glucose water (to
avoid dehydration). Unfortunately, the nurses fed/provided the parents
with a rubber nipple.
Her perception was that the baby had been "latching fine" and eagerly
until the rubber nipples. My question is whether milk sinuses were being
reached. (What the pediatrician had not seen were the mother's nipples.
Due to the size of the baby's mouth, It was a classical case of
"oroboobular disproportion" even without the frenulum problem.)
I first saw her on the evening of day 4, a Saturday. No wet diapers for
preceding 16+ hours. No severe engorgement, but obvious firmness in the
lobules, indicating beginning milk production to me. She understands
what a good latch is supposed to be and she is coordinating nicely. The
frenulum was clipped on Monday, day 6. Better nursing attempts followed.
Being as encouraging as I can and as conservative as I feel it safe to
be, so far, I have felt it necessary to have her use an electric pump, a
plastic medicine dropper at the breast with formula, then finger feeder
(mostly by dad while she pumps), and now breast compression with an SNS.
About all the "fiddly stuff" available. Even tried a nipple shield.
Nipple wouldn't fit inside it, and baby wouldn't take it anyway.
On my last visit on the 8th day, though pumping was only yielding 45-60
cc after 20 minutes, I was pleased to see how little compression it took
to at least express a "steady ooze" of colostrum from the nipple,
Despite the disproportion between the nipple and the mouth, the baby
appeared to be latching as well as possible, and I thought we were "on
our way". I was ready to eat "humble pie" about my prenatal assessment of
potential for problems.
The baby is now 12 days old, and I can tell she is very discouraged.
In retrospect, re the finger feeding sessions, especially by dad, I may
not have cautioned enough about not being too aggressive. The baby is
refusing all attempts at the breasts with clamped lips and turns the head
away. I am supplying plentiful encouragement and will take over a copy of
Diane W's "The Labor of Nursing" tonight.
I have encouraged her to drop direct attempts to latch for a while, and
hold the baby skin to skin at the breast while feeding with a finger
feeder till I can observe them tonight, and to check for possible thrush
in his mouth.
In retrospect, I'm now sorry I chose to approach it this way prenatally.
Surely, primitive women somewhere in the world have not been "skittish"
about handling the breast and the areola prenatally? Or has good genetics
and loose/no clothing and/or other factors made this unnecessary? Else
how has the human race survived? I know. Many babies haven't. And "wet
nursing" etc. probably saved many. I will continue to "doula" this
mother, but I would appreciate comments.
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, OH USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 17:04:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Michelle Williams <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: leukemia
The following is a question from another list I am subscribed to. With the
authors permission I am posting her question here to see what insight you
all can offer. Thanks!! Michelle
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 03:58:43 PST
From: carlene whitcomb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: lactation
Has anyone else had a dealings with childhood leukemia survivors that are
now postpartum and trying to breastfeed? We have had two cases in the last
several months and neither of them ever got milk, despite intensive trying
with the supervision of a lactation consultant. We are wondering if anyone
else has had this experience. When we consulted our tertiary care center's
oncology department, this wasn't anything they were familiar with.
Thanks for your input
Carlene
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:59:55 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Off-Topic with Endocrine-disruptors and junk science
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Forgive an off-topic message.
Someone has recommended "Our Stolen Future," referred to endocrine disrupters
and the allegation that "plastics are not inert ingredients and that some
chemicals from plastics are hormonally active."
There is no scientific consensus on that book or on the theory of endocrine
disrupters. The other side of the debate can be found at
www.junkscience.com. This side has links to articles on both sides of the
issue. It is maintained by Steve Milloy, a Johns Hopkins educated
epidemiologist who is a critic of the endocrine disrupter theory.
Now, can we return to our regularly scheduled programming?
Alice Martino
in Central New York State
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 20:31:21 EST
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Subject: New Yorker Article
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Has anyone else seen the November 8th Issue of the New Yorker Magazine?
There is an article entitled "Annals of Parenthood, Sleeping with the baby,
which side are you one? The author and his wife defied the experts."
Very interesting, very provocative.
Check it out.
Mimi Poinsett, MD, FAAP
Modesto CA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 20:38:23 -0600
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From: "Denny Rice, RN IBCLC, Dallas TX" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: Hyperprolactinemia
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I just read an abstract of a study that show that elevated melatonin
levels play a role in hyperprolactinemia. This url may be too long, but
here it is:
http://www.online.karger.com/library/karger/renderer/dataset.exe?jcode=GOI&action=render&rendertype=abstract&uid=GOI.goi48179
--
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas Texas USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 20:54:46 -0600
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From: "Denny Rice, RN IBCLC, Dallas TX" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: morphine inhibits oxytocin
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Still reading, this time found a study showing that morphine inhibits
the release of oxytocin during breastfeeding.
http://www.online.karger.com/library/karger/renderer/dataset.exe?jcode=GOI&action=render&rendertype=abstract&uid=GOI.goi48033
--
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas Texas USA
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 21:53:50 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: stars
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Right on, Kathy.
Maybe we could get at what Diane was aiming for---making sure that newcomers
to our field have some understanding of the history of breastfeeding as a
field---by putting history questions into the exam. Otherwise this could
begin to look like a popularity contest.
Chris Mulford
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:23:44 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Carla D'Anna <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: toxins and induced lactation
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If my understanding of this issue is correct the only way some of these
toxins ever leave our body is through breastmilk. If this is true then
our first born would receive the largest dose of toxins via our
breastmilk. So, why not induce lactation prior to our first pregnancy
thereby ridding our bodies of at lease some of the fat bound toxins.
Followed by an organic, vegetarian diet this makes at least as much
sense as the yo yo dieting schema.
Not sure myself if I am tongue in cheek or serious,
Carla (RN, IBCLC in Maryland, USA)
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:32:50 +1100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Karleen Gribble <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Toxins: how reliable are the studies?
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Something I have been thinking about is the reliability of the studies that
look at contamination of breastmilk with fat soluble toxins. I actually was
thinking about this in my sleep and woke up with the revelation that the
researchers would have to be very knowledgeable about breastfeeding and
breastmilk to ge a half reasonable estimation of the contamination levels
in breastmilk. I was thinking about the work that Peter Hartmann has done
on how fat concentration in breastmilk changes throughout a feed and
throughout a day. I haven't got any studies in from of me at the moment but
I wonder how the researchers have tackled this variation because obviously
variation in fat concentration means variation in toxins in fat. How many
studies do you think have been done with just a random sample of breastmilk
taken?
I'll have to go on a hunt and find out.
Karleen Gribble
Australia
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:05:54 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "A. Bon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: toxins and induced lactation
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>If my understanding of this issue is correct the only way some of these
>toxins ever leave our body is through breastmilk.
no, these toxins do leave the body, but their halflife is very long, about 7 years. That's
why the amount accumulates: more is added than is broken down.
during pregnancy a lot of the toxins are passed to the baby. Every next baby receives less
toxins.
some people thinks this could be a factor int he lower breastcancer rates in women who have
given birth a couple of times.
Another way to loose toxins is burning the body fat (so dieting and exercising).
Annelies Bon
Toxins in human milk: http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bf_toxins.htm
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 06:53:39 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Valerie Mcclain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Off-Topic with Endocrine-disruptors and junk science
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I am rather baffled that someone feels that my recent post on the book,
Our Stolen Future was off-topic. I happen to believe that part of being
a breastfeeding advocate/lactation consultant is promotion of
breastfeeding. This means one needs to be aware of what various groups
in you locality/nationally/internationally are saying about
breastfeeding and who is listening to those various groups. If these
authors are promoting junk science, guess who's listening to them...yep
a major candidate for the Presidency of the U.S. This man is also of
some influence in the Democratic party. Who's reading this book and how
will they regard breastfeeding?
We(in the U.S.)have no national policy on breastfeeding, nor a national
breastfeeding coordinator. Is it partly because some of us believe
that breastfeeding is not a political issue. What politicians believe
to be true will effect policies/laws that are written. If some
politicians believe that breastfeeding is dangerous because of chemical
contamination, then we will see policies/laws that reflect this believe.
We, who are breastfeeding advocates, need to know what is believed by
our politicians and how to direct them to better information. According
to the book, health officials in another country have already influenced
women to quit breastfeeding because of chemical contamination. The end
result an infant hospitalized because the mother used a substitute that
was onfit for infant consumption. If this is off-topic, then I guess I
had better spend my time finding a new occupation. Valerie W. McClain,
IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:29:08 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: toxins and induced lactation
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OK, I'll bite - subject I know little about - but aren't some of the toxins
released through the hepatic/bile/bowel connection? I can't imagine we
walk around with toxins that build higher and higher and higher....or are
the results poor health, Ca etc.? Intriguing thought, must go check out
the site mentioned on junk science and see this book mentioned! NJ
skeptic, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 08:52:58 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Scheduled feedings for multiples/Ezzo-related
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I personally know of one case where a mom had her triplets on strict
scheduled feedings. She was not nursing, but formula feeding, every four
hours. The mom's mother and mother-in-law took turns living with the family
to help out, and the dad helped as much as he could, so there was plenty of
support, but the grandmas and dad were not allowed to feed the babies until
the magic four-hour mark, though they did comfort the babies by picking them
up and holding them.
Number One Triplet, the largest, grew well on that schedule, taking all the
feedings, and not crying before the allotted mealtime. Number Two did not
quite finish the whole amount, and did cry before feeding time. Number Three
could not finish most of the bottle, and started crying well before the
appointed hour.
Needless to say, Number Two and Three did not gain weight as well as Number
One. In fact, Number Three looked skeletal until well past the starting of
solids. But apparently all the triplet literature this mom had read urged
"schedule," so the condition of Number Three, though obvious next to Number
One, had no effect on the mom's choices.
Lisa Mo
LLLL, Bowling Green, KY USA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:39:21 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: ", Fran Brenner" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vitamin E applied to nipple/areola
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Can you comment on use of Vitamin E applied to nipple/areola area for
treatment/management of sore-chapped nipples. I am additionally curious if
this can remain on breasts when infant nurses, or does it need to be removed?
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:32:53 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Dr. Tom Hale" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lugols solution - Iodine solutions.
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To : Rob
Re : Lugols Solution
Lugols solution contains 5% iodine and 10% Potassium iodide. I would not agree that they are
safe in breastfed
infants regardless of what the AAP says. Remember, Iodine rather effectively inhibits T3-T4
formation and release from the thyroid, that is why it is
used in these situations. Also, remember that it has a milk:plasma ratio of 12-26 which is the
highest of any drug I know.
Further, we do have one paper showing a dramatice reduction of thyroid function in a breastfed
infant following maternal
exposure to iodides.
In addition, the thyroid inhibition is retained for up to 6 weeks following use of iodine in
adults, so it could be long-lasting in an infant.
So I would really urge caution in breastfeeding an infant while undergoing iodine treatment for
thyroid abnormalities, infact, I wouldn't do it.
Regards
Tom Hale, Ph.D.
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:19:11 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mary Renard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: thanks for flu responses; personal update
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Thanks for the flu answers! I was sure that my gut reaction - why on earth
would bf'ing be a contraindication to getting a flu vaccine? was right, but
getting that instinct confirmed helped a lot. And I will use the CDC
references when writing to this company to tell them they're wrong :-) And
now if I could veer off-topic for a moment......
I don't presume to know everyone on Lactnet though I did recognize virtually
all of the names on Diane's list :-) but I know that I have exchanged
notes off-list with a lot of you, and that in my Lactnet posts from time to
time I've alluded to my interesting educational adventure of applying to
medical school. So I hope you all will forgive me for providing an update
via the list.
I'm not quite in YET. I completed last year's schooling, taking the science
courses that are prerequisites for applying, and kept my 4.0, yippee! I
also took the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) which has got to be the
nastiest ugliest most grueling multiple choice test around. I have had docs
tell me that their boards weren't as awful as the MCAT, but I'm sure that
impression varies. Anyway, I survived it and actually did fairly well.
I've interviewed at two schools and did not get accepted OR rejected by
either one. Instead, I'm on one school's alternate list, which apparently
gives me a fairly good chance of getting in, and on the other school's
'hold' list, which isn't so encouraging but hey, they didn't reject me
outright. So now I am in "wait list hell" and will probably not know for
many months whether I'll be starting med school next August or applying once
more for the following year. I was really hoping that by now I could change
my Lactnet signature to "MDin2004" or something cute like that, but I'll
have to wait awhile longer. I still feel very optimistic about my chances
and VERY determined that I will be a student doctor this time next year.
Meanwhile I have lots of time to read Lactnet :-)
Mary Riley Renard, RN, BSN, IBCLC
Vienna Virginia USA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:51:14 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary Renard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: name game
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It is fun to recognize the history of our new field and I agree that people
entering the field should be familiar with the 'pioneers' and their
contributions. However, I don't think it's a likely IBLCE exam question
topic for a variety of reasons.
First, the exam is *worldwide* and individuals' contributions are
more-or-less recognized depending on where they're from. While there are a
few towering, worldwide names, many more names would be more regionally
recognized.
Next, it's the art and current science of lactation support that is being
tested, not one's appreciation of the history of the field. I'd rather have
aspiring IBCLCs understand the sequence of sucking and swallowing - I don't
think it matters whether they know that Mike Woolridge's studies
demonstrated this sequence.
Finally, exam questions must be referenced to the literature and the
committee bends over backwards to make sure they are objective, not
opinion-based. There's going to be a wide divergence of opinion about who
is important and why, and speaking as the person who did the references for
IBLCE's exam for several years, I can tell you that such questions would be
*impossible* to reference!
In other words, our history is not something that can or should be tested on
a clinical certification exam, IMNSHO. I do think it's an important facet
of who we are and I agree that aspiring lactation consultants should be
familiar with this history.
Mary Riley Renard, RN, BSN, IBCLC
former employee of IBLCE; speaking for myself only
Vienna Virginia USA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:01:15 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pullin away
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Pat,
you suggested:
"Moms have to
resort to taking them into darkened bedrooms, all alone, for daytime
nursing."
What about in the day? There ia a 2 y/o at home.
" It's a phase and will probably pass"
The baby has been doing it for 5 months.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
general pediatrician
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:04:41 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: leukemia
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I have pateint whose mother had lymphoma while a teenager. I actually took
care of her as a resident. After a rocky first day she did fine.
Any idea given to me byy Jack N was to ask if the mom ever had radiation to
the chest.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
general pediatrician
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 11:11:38 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Touching breasts (long)
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These are my replies to the long post about huge long breasts:
I've
>seen video(s) or photos of women of other cultures grasping behind the
>nipple, stretching their subareolar tissue upward/forward for an inch or
>two, with the heavy breast tugging below it.
Not sure what you mean here. I've never seen anyone do this. Women in Mali
don't do anything to prepare their breasts for breastfeeding.
>Is it just the difference in clothing (lack of bra/support) all of their
>reproductive life that results in this?
They don't do it on purpose, I'm sure of that. Malian women vary greatly in
height, and many are over 6'. They are also often quite well padded as
adults. Not HUGE obesity, but plenty well-nourished. Some women have just
huge breasts, but that's not the case in the women with the 3-4' long
breasts. These women have relatively "normal" looking breasts, say a D cup
size, but the "breast" is at the end of a long ropy length of skin. I
myself often wondered how in the world the blood vessles grew that long.
Women *do* wear bras in Mali, probably half the time, and it is quite the
amazing thing to watch a women put one of these breasts into a bra cup, just
sort of accordion-folding the long ropy part, and then tucking the "breast"
itself in on top.
Most women with breasts like this were older, as in late 40s, perhaps, had
had many many many pregnancies, births, lactations. I think that the main
forces in Mali that conspire to give women droopy, flattened breasts are (1)
they wear their babies tied to their backs with a long piece of cloth, which
is overlapped and knotted TIGHT across the tops of their breasts. Babies
aren't on their moms' backs all the time, but at least several hours every
day. (2) the women do a lot of hard labor that involves repeated up and down
motions of the upper body, for pounding millet mostly (several hours every
day), but also chopping firewood, and hoeing in the fields -- that's got to
stretch that skin tissue, especially if the mother is not wearing a bra (3)
they often do not wear a bra. They also tend to fluctuate a lot in terms of
their weight, depending on how much money they have, how good the rains were
that year, and therefore the crops, how sick they've been with malaria, etc.
So some of that extra skin may come from getting stretched out during the
good times, and then losing weight during the bad times.
I never saw anyone (in Mali, or anywhere else) with the huge nipples I've
read described on LactNet. Can't say I noticed *any* particular variation
around my own norm of pencil-eraser sized-nipples. Never saw anything
different enough to notice, anyway.
She wrote in response to the above post:
>>Amazing! Not to mention the nerves, the lymphatics and probably the
>>ducts, for certainly the lobular tissue is still up near the chest wall
>>and axilla and not at the end of this 3-4' long "stalk"?
To which I replied:
Well, it certainly looked like a "breast" at the end of the stalk -- i.e.,
that the fat and glandular tissue was in its normal place right behind the
nipple and areola. I don't really see how the milk could be made up on the
chest and sucked/ejected all the way down to the breast.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 13:19:03 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vit E
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Fran, I believe that Vit E and its use on nipples has been discussed, and
these discussions may be available in the archives...if you go to the url
below and do a search.
It is my understanding that Vit E is fat soluble, and that it does not take
too much to overdose a baby on it. Therefore, I do not recommend this. Most
sore nipples have a positioning component, and I would begin with this as an
intervention.
Kind regards,
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 13:31:28 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Archive Instructions
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ARCHIVAL SEARCH INSTRUCTIONS
This is a clarification of how to do SEARCH functions on Lactnet..it is
very useful to have this information at your finger tips, and to try it out.
Many times, a topic has been discussed, and you can benefit from finding
past posts on the topic you are interested in. To look for the most current
posts, use the listname LACTNET in your search command. (Note: Notes older
than a few years are currently unavailable, due to server issues. We hope
that this will be corrected in th near future).
For info's sake, there are a few different ways to do a search for subject
matter or sender on Lactnet material. We have approximately 2 years of
Lactnet posts
presently available to you (posts older than this are hopefully going to be
included in the new Lsoft server, but this has not happened yet.)
The first way is to do the searches by email through the
[log in to unmask] address. The second way is accessing the
archives from our archive web site at LACTNET Archives
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html. The following
instructions apply to the first method, searching via the listserv.
For instance, if you are interested in finding all the notes that have
Goat's Milk in the text since Jan 1, 1997, you can send an email message to
[log in to unmask] that says Jan 1, 1997
SEARCH goat in LACTNET
If you are interested in finding several different words in Lactnet posts,
such as the following, it might seem that the right way to do it is to do
several *different* searches, in separate notes to listserv, like....
search epilepsy in lactnet
search tegretol in lactnet
search carbamazepine in lactnet
search phenobarbital in lactnet
to the [log in to unmask] address. However, this is not an
effective way to utilize the search function, as it taxes the system, and is
ineffective.
We are glad that you all are using the search functions, and here are a few
hints....and suggestions on how best to do SEARCHes on Lactnet.
You can put several commands into a single message, and should do so
when you can (because it's easier for both you and the machine). Just
put each command onto its own line. Second, it will be much easier for
you to make sense of the output if you put everything you want from
LACTNET into a single command:
SEARCH EPILEPSY OR TEGRETOL OR CARBAMAZEPINE OR PHENOBARBITAL OR PROZAC IN
LACTNET
... like that. Or you can do things like this, too:
SEARCH EPILEPSY AND (TEGRETOL OR CARBAMAZEPINE OR PHENOBARBITAL) IN LACTNET
Rather than having to combine the lists of results that LISTSERV gives
you to from those individual searches, let it do the work for you.
If you were interested in searching for all the posts that I have made, for
instance, on Lactnet, you could do a
SEARCH * in Lactnet where sender contains Bruce
to the [log in to unmask] address.
If you wanted to see all the posts I've made since Jan 1997, for instance,
you could do a
SEARCH * in Lactnet where sender contains Bruce SINCE Jan 1997
to [log in to unmask]
If you are searching for several words that are together, such as
Breastmilk storage container
you should first know that the Listserv automatically assumes "NEAR" between
all the words, so they not only have to be in the same article but also
within a few words of each other. In addition, unless you *have* to search
the entire set of archives, you should always limit the search with a date
specifier like this:
search breastmilk storage containers in LACTNET since Jan 1998
It is important to specify the search. Limiting the search and making
requests specific places less stress on the system. Many articles talking
about
breast milk would separate the two words, and that some articles talking
about containers might only say "container", etc. Specifying a search that
gets all or most of what you want with a minimum of what you don't is as
much of an art as a science.
For information on searching, write to [log in to unmask] with
the command
INFO DATABASE.
When you use the SEARCH function, the computer will send you back a "menu"
of posts, each having a 4 digit number (####). You can then order the posts
you want with the command
GETPOST Lactnet #### #### #### ####
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Last but not least, the search function is also available at the WEB SITE
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:08:25 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Re: Vit E
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Fran:
vitamin E can accumulate and in lage quanitites is toxic. Therefore I would
suggest one find an alteratvie treatment for ones nipples.
Patricia
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:06:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Clayton and Anne Nans <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Scheduled feeding for triplets or more/response
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> I personally know of one case where a mom had her triplets on strict
> scheduled feedings.
I think the trick is to talk to the parents about gentle scheduling with
their multiples, and let them know the signs and symptoms of adequate
feedings vs inadequate feedings. Even with babies who are fed on demand,
we all know of some babies who were not gaining weight because they were
not demanding enough, and the parents didn't know when to wake baby and
feed them if they're not showing signs of hunger. With multiples you have
many breastfeeding issues, #1 getting a strong enough supply #2 getting
preemies (50% of twins are born before 37 weeks, and 90% of triplets are
premature, while 100% of quads or greater are premature) on the breast
(fixing breastfeeding) #3 getting Mom and Dad and Grandma, Aunt, Grandpa,
or hired help into a routine to number 1, care for the babies, and number
2, keep all caregivers sane and healthy. The babies usually have frequent
weight checks with their pediatrician on at least a weekly basis during the
first month or so home from the hospital, so that any problems with growth
and feeding should be addressed before it becomes a problem. It is so true
that some babies will not fall into whatever schedule the parents try to
put them on, or they will not thrive on that schedule. Then, it is time to
regroup and and find another way. In general with higher order multiples
and many twins, a routine is the best way for Mom to get a little sleep,
and have the energy to take care of and breasfeed her babies, but not
always. There aren't many mothers of triplets or more who breastfeed for
more than a short period, and it is these families who can truly benefit
the most from breastfeeding. Breastfeeding saves many trips to the doctor.
Taking care of 2 or more babies is a challenge but fun, but caring for 2
or more ill infants is just hard. Breastfeeding multiples saves hundreds
of dollars a month in formula costs. Breastfeeding multiples saves time
and energy in not preparing and washing bottles. Of all the mothers I know
who have successfully breastfed their triplets or more, gentle scheduling
has been the key. Please let me know of any case studies of Higher Order
Multiples (triplets or more) who have breastfed successfully for at least 6
months on a demand system. I would love to talk to them, and find out
their tips.
Anne Nans, RN, IBCLC
Woodbridge, VA
Breastfeeding mother to 10 1/2 month old triplets
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:31:38 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Dear Lacnuts,
I have two things worth mentioning:
1. I recently picked up the "Parenting Pages" which is a newsletter for the
California Consortium To Prevent Child Abuse and to my astonishment there was
a picture of a mother bottle-feeding her baby on page two with the following
information next to the picture:
"Human babies require more support for a longer period of time to reach
maturity as healthy, intelligent, well-adjusted beings than any other living
species on the planet. The parenting of human being requires parents to be
skillful in many roles during the years of rearing their children. Parents
must be nutritionists, paramedics, arbitrators, chauffeurs, coaches, social
planners, movie critics, tailors or seamstresses and paralegals just to name
a few. Built into each of these roles, as well as being a role itself, is
teaching. Parents above all are teachers."
So why is it necessary to include a picture with a mother bottle feeding? If
anyone is interested in writing: California Consortium to Prevent Child
Abuse, 1600 Sacramento Inn Way, Suite 123, Sacramento, CA 95815 or
916-648-8010.
Also, if anyone has an article or resources about child abuse and
breastfeeding, please e-mail me privately.
2. "Breastfeeding Today" a newsletter from the Lea**** Cu*** has an article
about formula which is very positive except it says "The new AAP policy
discourages the use of formulas "with rare exceptions," like infants born to
mothers with HIV, TB or substance abuse problems. Also, some mothers simply
can't breastfeed, (in adoptions for instance) so fortunately, artificial milk
does exist."
What do you think?
3. Chrity Brinkley (sp?), but I hope you know who I mean! Anyway she
advertises the Total Gym on Lifetime and she says a few things that I really
don't like which are as follows:
"I'm a nursing mother and 4 months after having a baby I only have 8 lbs left
to lose and I've done it all with the Total Gym because I cannot starve
myself. I owe it my baby to eat well and have good nutrition and I haven't
gone hungry a day but the pounds are dropping off and its all from the total
gym . ."
"And you know what the best thing is about the Total Gym, I mean the best. Is
that just 4 months after having my third baby I can fit back into my old
clothes again ahh what a relief"
So I'm I reading too much into this? Not that there is anything that we can
do about this, but it does worry me commercials like these can really push
moms to lose the weight.
Smiles,
Yvonne
**********************************
Yvonne C. Bannister, IBCLC
Hollister, CA
Private Practice/Baby's BestFeeding
"A mother holds her baby . . . who lovingly holds her breast and gets the
best!"
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:46:22 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: And Baby Knows Best
I've been smiling to myself all week over this one.
I've been working with a mother of a 32 week premie for three or four weeks.
It was her sixth baby. She has pumped and bottle fed the other five for a
couple of months each, but has never put any of them directly to breast.
She thinks bf is disgusting, but wants them to have the advantage of breast
milk. No amount of discussion about bonding, mothering, time involved,
improved milk supply, etc. etc. made any impression. She was pumping away,
and we were gavaging for quite a while. When the baby got ready for oral
feedings, we did as she asked and introduced a bottle of EBM.
Nothing doing! That little guy just wouldn't suck. He took a pacifier
pretty well, but after ten days, he still simply refused a bottle. NO
nipple would tempt him. Our OT couldn't get him to suck. I couldn't get
him to suck. It was the only thing keeping him in the hospital.
Finally, I suggested she just TRY putting the baby to breast. She said, "I
am willing to try ANYTHING that will get him out of here."
So, we put the baby to breast, he latched on and suckled like mad for thirty
minutes, nursed every feeding on demand for the next two days, gained weight
and went home.
Hee Hee Hee! Smart baby!
Deanne, R.N. IBCLC
NICU
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:02:05 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: True to life cartoon
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Hello Fellow Lactneters.......came across this cartoon. Take a look: <A
HREF="http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/pict/bv-strip.jpg">http://utopia.kno
ware.nl/users/abon/pict/bv-strip.jpg</A>
Vickie I. Heup, RN, Lamaze International student
http://members.aol.com/NurseVH/index.html
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:20:08 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: consent for supplementation
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My boss has requested I research this and find some consents already in use.
I have searched the archives re consent for supplementation, bottles,
pacifiers. So I have some info. I have read the pros and cons. If anyone is
willing to share their supplementation consent I would like to show these to
my boss who chairs our bf committee and we will review and decide if this is
something we would like to do at our hosp. Private email fine.
Thanks,
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, s.e. USA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:37:39 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Glenda Dickerson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 7 Nov 1999 - Special issue (#1999-191)
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In reference to the scheduled triplets--why did it not occur to these
parents to feed the babies on the scheduled that coincided with the baby
that gets hungry first and not the baby that gets hungry last? To make 2
babies wait because the third one has a greater capacity to go longer
between feedings is almost beyond belief. Sigh
Glenda Dickerson
B'ham, AL
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To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 1999 3:16 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 7 Nov 1999 - Special issue (#1999-191)
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:44:57 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bethesda MD
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Could any lactnuts in the Bethesda area email me privately please?
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre, PA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 18:12:39 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Helen Vermilya <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Scheduled feeding for triplets or more/response
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Anne,
Anne stated:
>I think the trick is to talk to the parents about gentle scheduling with
their multiples>
What is gentle scheduling? I am not familiar with that phrase.
TIA
Helen RNC IBCLC
Williamsport, PA
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:43:53 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Debi Page Ferrarello, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Higher order multiples
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Dear Lactnetters:
I recently had a client who had three children and was planning a tubal
ligation. To her surprise, she was pregnant---this time with naturally
conceived triplets!
She breastfed them for seven months. Two months after weaning she told
me,"Every time I stand at the sink washing out bottles I ask myself why I
thought this would be easier! I should have just kept breastfeeding".
She occasionally fed more than one at a time, but preferred nursing them
each alone. With three infants, she must have been feeding constantly. And
with three other young children! But, this was her choice and worked for her.
I have another friend who has triplets and two older children. She read
Ezzo, with her eyes open, used her considerable intellect, and used what she
liked. I shuddered, expressed my conserns and cautions. Nonetheless, she
put the three on a schedule in order to have some sense of order and some
moments to sleep, eat, shower, and be mom to her other two, then four and
six. One of the triplets had reflux and needed to be re-fed after each
feeding because of spitting. She also chose to feed each of the girls alone
one time each day. She was flexible with the schedule---she herself is a
pediatrician as well as a sensitive mother and she wasn't about to let any of
the children go hungry! Her choice, and it worked for them! Have I
converted to Ezzo-ism? Perish the thought!
It's so interesting to learn how different families find ways that work
for them. We can support, inform, suggest, educate, but the bottom line is
that we're going home and mom and dad will stay to manage (or not).
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:45:42 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Debi Page Ferrarello, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Higher order multiples
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Did I forget to sign my post? Maybe it's my subconscous fearing even the
slightest link to the Ezzos! Sorry!
-Debi Page Ferrarello, RN, IBCLC
Breastfeeding Resources, Inc.
Abington, PA 19001
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Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:16:55 +1100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Karleen Gribble <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Toxins: my last say
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I guess everyone is sick of the subject so this is my last post on the
topic.
I questioned how researchers measured toxins in breastmilk and whether they
took into account how the fat composition of breastmilk changes. Well, I
had a look at a heap of studies and they all avoided that problem by
expressing the level in contamination as a function of g of fat. Thus,
accuracy is only a problem when they attem[pt to calculate the dose of
toxin injested by the baby because at this point they have to work out how
much fat the child is getting.
Karleen Gribble
B. Rur. Sc. PhD
Australia
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:48:41 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Babywise-not
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<<
Any parenting program that ends up with depressed, anorexic babies, slow
weight gain, feeding tubes, and failure to thrive as a result of that
program
should be universally panned by our profession. And that is true of the
Preparation for Parenting/Babywise programs. Or ANY program that treats all
mo >>
I have a friend who practices BW with her children. 3 weeks ago she told me
that she is having parenting problems (her little second born, one year old
is
having tantrums and still cries when placed down for a nap) and then she
told me she had an unhappy child. I informed her about the research that
crying is harmful and she seemed receptive.
Once she came to me for advice when this little one was ill with a
gastroenteritis and she would only eat cheerios not what she usually ate. I
encouraged her to feed her whatever she wanted and to do more BF because
she
was ill. Mom said, "But won't that get her off schedule?"
I wanted to scream, "Schedule, what schedule? SHE"S SICK!" But instead I
said, "Oh, I am sure she will go right back to it once she is better."
Since she was receptive to the research before I would like to obtain any
references on BW and depression.
I would also like to share that over the last year or so, I gave up on
getting my now two year old to sleep through the night and I continued to
nurse him several times. He has been sick every one-two months for the last
18 months. He is quite allergic and gets frequent sinus infections. Last
month he had a CT scan for reoccuring fevers and we found ethmoidal and
maxillary sinusitis. As I am sure you are aware the ethmoid sinuses are deep
and have probably never been adequately treated since we only gave the
antibiotics for 2 weeks in the past. He is now on antibiotics for 4 weeks.
Over the last few weeks he has self-weaned 50%, nurses more gently, and now
usually only wakes up early morning one time. I am so glad that I listened
to my baby and not to what family and society dictated I should do.
Instead
of a depressed child, I have a cheerful silly goofy funny happy little boy.
And I tell as many people as I can about my experience of "listening to my
baby" and how once we diagnosed and started treating him , I tell them of
his subsequent change in behavior. Christine Betzold MSN NP CLE
>>
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