So Helen, just what is a marmite soldier, maybe something similar to our
ants on a log for kids?
Jacie in Albuquerque, in the great American Southwest
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:06:25 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Osterholt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LAM
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I wanted to apologize for offending some people with my post. I only
wanted to state some facts from 30 years of Catholic teachings.
I also want to point out that their are different orders in the Catholic
Church and the Fransician order is more liberal which may explain the
differences.
My comment about the sex was only to show the strictness of the
teachings.
Again I want to apologize. My intent was not to offend. I will be happy
to continue this discussion privately.
Assunta
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:59:32 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Reulbach Wirtjes <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: JCAHO
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Loni and all..... We had a visit from JCAHO this past summer and I was
disappointed that they didn't focus on any aspect of breast or bottle
feeding in their meetings with staff. I was hoping!! (Our inspector
focused on post-C/Sec epidurals for pain control. When the OB Doc said
he believes we do a good job with post-op pain control, she asked
him,"Have you ever had a C-Section?" He blushed. :) )
Susan Wirtjes RN IBCLC
Hospital-based
from Susan in Iowa (is this heaven?)
mailto: [log in to unmask]
"What you permit, you promote"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:32:14 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pearl Shifer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: lactation party?
Hi Pat Bull, what's a lactation party?
best,
Pearl Shifer
NYC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:26:21 -1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gloria Buoncristiano-Thai <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chocolate
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Aloha, Dr. Rob,
Who is deprived?! I'll take my double X and passion for chocolate
anyday! :D
Aloha,
Gloria Thai Honolulu, O'ahu, Hawai'i located 20 degrees North of the
Equator
>Now I like chocolate, I'm not passionate about it like those
>deprived of a Y chromosome, but how someone could think of
>taking out a great tatsing calcium rich food like cow's milk
>and replace it with mushrooms is beyond me.
>-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:34:38 -1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gloria Buoncristiano-Thai <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cow's milk again
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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Aloha Dr. Kim,
I will not go into my feelings on whether or not cow's milk is healthy on
Lactnet; however, I do get upset when cow's milk is pushed on everyone
including those who cannot tolerate it (the majority of the world's
population). I am fed up with our public schools pushing the milk, and
having to provide a doctor's note, so my children will not be forced to
take it. Not to mention the strange looks and certain comments made by
the cafeteria staff in regards to my children.
This coming from someone who grew up loving cow's milk.
Aloha,
Gloria Thai Honolulu, O'ahu, Hawai'i located 20 degrees North of the
Equator
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:43:13 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pat Riley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Instrument for frenotomy and still need help!
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There is an old circumcision instrument called a Harp which Docs used to make
a dorsal slit in the foreskin, which makes a great guide and retractor to clip
a tongue tie. Years ago this instrument for both purposes. On the same subject
I still need references from medical literature, EENT or pediatric to present
to our Pediatric medical staff presenting the need for frenotomy in newborns
having short frenulums. Please help if you can!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:49:20 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Forrest Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: poor latch.......help!!
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Hi all,
I came across a baby who is really frustrating me as well as her mother.
Mom gave permission for me to post.
Hx: Mom...37 year old prime, 3 hour prostaglandin induced labor,
intrathecal for last 30 min of labor, no vigorous suctioning of neonate at
birth. Very sore nipples (read on to find out why!!)
Baby...Full term female, 6lbs 4 oz almost 24 hours old. is sleepy, but will
eventaully rouse to feed. Will root and partially open mouth and accept
nipple and begin to suck. The problem here is the partial opening. If
baby opens wide enough for better latch, she gags with nipple placement and
readjusts the placement to her liking (near the front of the mouth).
Mom reports that "all the ultrasounds showed baby sucking on her fingers"
Why all the ultrasounds you ask??? Mom is an OB doc, so some were "done
for fun" but near the end of the pregnancy her MD felt baby was slowing
down in growth.
Could finger sucking in uetero cause a tight latch? And why gag
reflex....same reason??
So far I have gone over with mom what a "good latch" is...on the rare
occasion that baby latches well mom was able to verbalize that it felt
good. Also showed her how to work with baby to encourage wide open mouth
and took suggestion from a LLL book that discussed "walking the tounge"
down (I think that was the term) Also at this point mom is unable to
tolerate the poor latch and so she pumps after trying to get baby to breast
with out sucess...I went over options with mom re feeding while she works
with baby to obtain better latch...she was most comfortable with using a
wide base nipple and trying to simulate the wide open mouth (mom was
relieved when she saw that baby also approached the bottle in the same
fashion....I think she believed it was her causing the problem). I also
dicsussed healing techniques for her already damaged nipples.
what else could I do here????
Thanks Lori Peters RN IBCLC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:55:18 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Margie Forrest, RN, BSN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LA and the RC church
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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The Couple to Couple League, a part of the Catholic Church, does endorse the
Lactational Amenorrhea method of (I hesitate to say birth control, as that's
taboo) naturally spacing children. I have some of their information here
somewhere......they spoke at a state LLL conference I attended a few years
ago.
Margie in WPB, FL, where we are mourning the loss of our Governer, a
breastfeeding advocate.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:11:57 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Flossie Rollhauser, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LACTNUT CHRISTMAS
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The other day someone mentioned that you could tell a Lactnut by the miniature
pump parts on the tree...
Today at work I was called into the nursery (yeh, we still have one - that's a
whole 'nuther story...) where one of the nurses gave me a brightly wrapped
package with a note that said, "Sorry, I HAD to do it!" Upon opening it, I
saw a lovely Christmas garland decorated with golden bells. The nurse said,
"Take a closer look at the bells." They were spray-painted flanges from the
"junk" pumps we had briefly had to pull out of the "breastfeeding discharge
bags" from a "nameless" formula company until they stopped supplying them last
year!!! I had a wonderful time showing it around the hospital all day, and it
is now on display in my foyer at home!
Happy Holidays to all of you!
Flossie Rollhauser, IBCLC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:05:21 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: G Hertz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Computer Game -Help Please
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Hi Lactnetters,
A medical student at my hospital sent me this message and I am posting it
with her permission in the hope that someone out there may be able to help
her with an idea on this. You can respond directly to her or through me.
Thanks. Gail
Gail Hertz, MD, IBCLC
Pediatric Resident
author of the little green breastfeeding book - disclaimer: owner of Pocket
Publications
> From: kathleen sheridan bellis <[log in to unmask]>
> I have been wondering about writing to the manufacturers of a computer
game
> my kids play. It is generally a great game, moving kids through all
sorts
> of history, science, geography, math, language skills, etc. I was in the
> kitchen listening while they played the game. There was a picture of a
> baby bottle. The computer was explaining that improvements in medical
care
> have led to a longer lifespan (this was a lead-in to the story of
Florence
> Nightingale). The computer actually said something to the effect of:
"the
> invention of bottles to feed babies led to better nutrition for babies
and
> fewer infant deaths." I would like to send the game inventors all the
data
> that led to the WHO boycott of Nestle. Any suggestions for how best to
> address this? >
> Kathleen
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:02:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BF on the radio
MIME-Version: 1.0
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One of the best reasons to encourage a teen to BF her baby is that it is SO
empowering. A teen needs all the help she can get! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:23:25 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Marmite soldiers
MIME-Version: 1.0
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OK Jacie, what are ants on a log? Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:32:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: accents
MIME-Version: 1.0
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the little "eh" in Andrew's notes. As someone else said, use of words,
spelling and structure tip off some areas of the world. Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ (where we do not sound like people from North Jersey and New York! We
seem to get most of our accent from eastern PA. I imagine that is because
of the proximity to Philadelphia and Philadelphia TV stations.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:19:19 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jill Lund <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: double mastectomy/Florida
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To Theresa -
I think you are doing the right thing going over the risks of formula. The
woman with a double mastectomy (from your class) especially has the right
to know. As human milk from another healthy woman is the 3rd best choice
(after breastfeeding yourself, or pumping your own milk), and formula is
the 4th best choice, this mom deserves to get help on accessing a milk
bank. Recent e-mails have said both Denver, Colorado, and the Mass. banks
have plenty of milk even for healthy babies.
Based on research, if she has a girl, her baby girl will have a lower risk
of breast cancer if she can get human milk. This mom really needs to know
what her options are -- easier to get human banked milk now than to feel
bad later when even more research is out. She can maybe help to prevent
her daughter needing the same breast cancer surgery that she had to have.
Even if her daughter did need surgery, she would know she gave the best she
could -- human banked milk. (and of course, if she is having a boy -- the
human milk is still available to the mom and important).
Good-luck, and I'm impressed by your caring heart.
Jill Lund, RD, MS, St. Louis, Missouri, USA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:25:19 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: JDLAPP <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
Subject: kenicterus
MIME-Version: 1.0
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LOL Dr. Jack & way to go Jan... loved your posts on this yellow issue!
Jean
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:38:59 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Scott and Erin Reagan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 2 week old not gaining
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello Lactnetters,
Please consider suggestions for the following situation...
Baby born two weeks ago at approx 7 1/2 lbs
discharge wt 7lbs
one week wt 1/2 oz shy of 7 lbs
two week wt 7 lbs
Mother is dedicated to breastfeeding
Baby seems to nurse non-stop during the day and sleeps 6-7 hour nights
Mom added 5oz formula via bottle for the last week to increase calories
Latch seems ok
Moms supply looks good (fullness, leaking, etc.)
Baby wets fine
No bm for 5 days, then slightly firm and formed, 2 small bm's on Mon
The only things that leap to my mind are foremilk/hindmilk imbalance (I
think Mom is switching baby too soon, too often, and maybe he's not
getting enough fat to fill him up and produce more bm's) or that there
is something going on with the baby's ability to absorb. I am really
stumped on this one. I'm ready to bring out the SNS, pump, herbs,
whatever! I am also sending her to the dr, something that she has not
wanted to do, but I think must be done.
help, help, help
Erin Reagan
--
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:53:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carla D'Anna <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Joke, hopefully not offensive
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I hope this is not offensive to anyone. I think it is funny.
Okay, you know all about smileys ;-), but did you know about
Virtual Breasts?
(o)(o) Perfect Breasts
( + )( + ) Fake Silicone Breasts
(*)(*) High Nipple Breasts
(@)(@) Big Nipple Breasts
(.)(.) Tiny Nipple Breasts
o o "A" Cups
{ O }{ O } "D" Cups
(oYo) Wonder Bra Breasts
( ^)( ^) Cold Breasts
(o)(O) Lopsided Breasts
(Q)(Q) Pierced Breasts
(p)(p) Hanging Tassle Breasts
(:o)(o) Bitten By a Vampire Breasts
\o/\o/ Grandma's Breasts
( - )( - ) Flat Against the Shower Door Breasts
(8)(o) Extra Nipple Breasts
(^o)(o) Zit on Breast
( o Y o ) Poses for Playboy Breasts
( /\ )( /\ ) Madonna's Breasts
--
Carla D'Anna, RN, IBCLC hospital based LC
from Maryland, just north of Washington, DC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:03:28 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: frenotomy tool
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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To Susan, and all you others out there who have doctors doing frenotomies,
especially in hospital-- could you persuade them to write an editorial, an
article, do a study, ANYTHING, and submit it to one of their journals? I
would love for the rest of the nation's docs to see that there are reputable
MDs out there who actually cut frenula for the sake of breastfeeding, and
moreover, that it actually *works*.
I just had my first referral from a doctor in another town, and to my dismay
this baby was quite tongue-tied (mom's supply shot at 6 weeks). I faxed my
report and had mom talk to him, and he said that he would never do it, the
baby might swallow his tongue! Gosh, what does he think the procedure
involves?
Mom was very fortunate to get a referral (Medi-Cal) to the one ped in my
town who does frenotomies, and she reported that baby immediately latched
and exhibited long draws such as he had not regularly done before. Yea! Of
course I'll have her go back and rave about the difference to her ped, but
in the meantime, I wonder if I'll ever get another referral from him.
Oh PLEASE, we need MDs to write up their experiences and submit them for
others to consider.
Lisa Marasco, BA, IBCLC
Santa Maria, CA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:19:16 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: JDLAPP <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
Subject: Re: Subject: kernicterus
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This research must have been carried out by the ezzo methods!
LOL
Sorry, I couldn't refrain from comment.
Jean
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:29:16 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Morrison IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gripe water
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Magda, the colic remedy you are asking about is Phenergan (promethazine
hydrochloride), and antihistamine with sedative effects. I knew a mother of
twins once who went through bottles of the stuff, bought over the counter.
Pamela Morrison IBCLC, Zimbabwe
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:39:45 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: weighing
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I share Magda's concern about extrapolating Jan's quite-clearly successful
use of weighing before and after feeds to other, similar situations.
Jan felt this mother was helped by seeing the weight go up after a feed -
but in other situations, the weight might not have gone up very much at
all, by pure chance. This would not necessarily reflect anything about the
feed, or the milk supply in general - especially in a baby where all the
other signs clearly indicate he or she is thriving.
For mothers, learning to bf, and to trust in it, and to make the most of
this wonderful relationship between mother and baby, comes from
observing a whole range of behaviours and responses. This is empowering,
IMHO - and mothers may need help and support to look beyond their baby's
weight and growth to get to this stage. Just because the 'weight is okay'
does not always mean the 'bf is okay' . Conversely, the weight may not be
'textbook', but the bf (and the baby) may be fine.
However, Jan assessed her client as needing this formal confirmation of her
baby's progress on breastmilk, and she went home somewhat happier - so it
worked. Great!
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:10:08 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Kimarie B. Bugg RN, MPH, CCE" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gripe Water
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Patricia,
Several moms in the Atlanta metro area from the West Indies use "gripe water."
They purchase it at West Indies health food stores.
Kim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:26:50 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Kimarie B. Bugg RN, MPH, CCE" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humorus stories
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Wendy,
I have five kids and many funny stories, this is one of my favorites:
I went to Barbados for two weeks to do some training with UNICEF when my now
eight year old twins Paula and Wesley were two and a half. I thought this
would be a great time to wean them. When I returned husband and kids met me
at the Atlanta airport. Wesley wanted "mommie juice" right away. I told him
that the milk was all gone. He looked puzzled, but went along with me at the
time. Paula accepted the my story. All evening he continued to ask to nurse
and I told him the same thing over and over.
At bed time, Wesley went to the refrigerator, poured a cup of milk (mostly on
the floor) brought the cup to me upstairs and said, " Here mommie, drink this
so I can nurse nurse you." Wesley solved my problem and his. I did as he
instructed and nurse nursed them another six months.
Kim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:57:32 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: birth control/Lactnet
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Once again, can we please take the discussion of LA methods and different
churches to *private* email? Thanks.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont, where daylight is almost gone by 4 pm....
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Check these pages out...
http://together.net/~kbruce/proj.html
http://together.net/~kbruce/answers.htm
LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:12:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: clipping
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I second Lisa's suggestion. We NEED something in B & W in a regular dr
type journal to support the need for clipping frenula.
It would make a lovely holiday present to all of us all over the world.
Happy Holidays - whichever you are celebrating! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:16:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humorus stories
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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My youngest weaned around 2 1/2. Subsequently, once in a while he'd ask
and I'd say I didn't have any milk left, which he accepted. One day when
he was about 3 I overheard him discussing with his dad that if he poked a
hole in my back and filled me up (like a pitcher, I suppose) then he could
nurse again! Interesting 3 yo logic. I promptly offered him a drink from
a cup. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:24:48 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leila Marcial <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ethics/HIV/breastfeeding/ABM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
to Everyone on the List:
I received an A+ on my ethics paper. my professor's
comments were: "This is an excellent and factual
discussion of a topic that has misled many people.
your bibliography is impressive."
Later, when I'm not on my way to work, I will post
my conclusion. The paer itself is information that
everyone here on the list already knows............
I thank everyone who wrote to my for their
help, you all are so kind. I do have a speech due
on tuesday in Public Speaking, 95% of the class is
under 20. I'm doing breastfeeding. And I AM
including the young men in my class - 7 of them
4 are 19, 3 are 18.....oohh la la to get them when
they are so young and listen sort of.............
Sincerely,
Leila Marcial, RN/CCE
Bebitos Educación Prenatal
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:45:47 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Teens
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Dear Folks:
Teens also enjoy very much that breastfeeding makes them the mother. Often,
at least where I live (Philadelphia area, northeast coast of USA) the baby's
grandmother or some other female relative will care for the baby when the teen
returns to school. Teens can be pushed aside as the significant person in
their baby's life......unless they are breastfeeding. Teens also love how
they can sleep and breastfeed at the same time, and talk on the phone and
breastfeed at the same time. I've noted some teens to catch on to the phone
skill within 24 hours of birth!
One 15-year old woman, who was totally silent and listening during all our
interactions (where she was called every day for the first week postpartum and
fairly often the second week, with a dwindling frequency of support calls as
the baby got older) actually waxed rhapsodic over how her baby smiled at her
when she got home from school. This heretofore silent woman became verbose!
This is power. Warmly, Nikki Lee
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:21:47 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Annelies Bon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fwd: Mercury in my breast milk
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I got the following email in my mailbox. This woman asked to be called, but
I think she doesn't realize I live in Europe. Could anyone of you want to
contact her? If so, please email me so I can give you her telephone number.
Annelies Bon
Toxins in Human Milk
http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bf_toxins.html
mailto:[log in to unmask]
living in a small city, Almere, near Amsterdam, The Netherlands
================
Subject:
Mercury in my breast milk
Date:
Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:40:13 -0800
To:
<[log in to unmask]>
Dear Sir/Madam:
I recently found that I have very high blood levels of Mercury. I have not
yet received results from hair and urine analysis.
However, I have a 6 month old baby that I breast feed. I'm extremely
concerned about his exposure to the mercury. We do
not yet know if my source of contamination is due to my large consumption
of tuna or to old dental fillings -- probably
both. As I do not yet have my e-mail set up I can only give you my
telephone number. If you call I would be delighted to
return the call in order to reverse the charge.
Kathy Meyer
tel *****
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:50:55 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: The Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Another reason for LCs to see formula feeding moms
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I was recently hanging breastfeeding posters in patient rooms. Since I
was asking to enter this mother's room, I introduced myself and asked if
she were breastfeeding. The mother said, "Well, I wanted to but . . .
." Mother's nurse walked in about this time. She awakened the baby,
and we helped mom put the baby to breast. First latch, somewhat
shallow, but baby could be heard gulping milk. Second latch was great
and baby nursed well. You never know the story behind that bottle
feeding mom if you don't ask.
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC
from the sunny S.W. USA where the weather is absolutely awesome right
now
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:09:33 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Deya Stavinoha <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Couple to Couple League - correction
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 12/17/98 12:24:24 AM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< The Couple to Couple League, a part of the Catholic Church >>
Please note:
The Couple-to-Couple League is a non-profit, *interdenominational*
organization.
*NOT* a part officially or unofficially of the Catholic Church.
Just setting the record straight,
Deya Stavinoha
*Presbyterian*
NFP Instructor (Couple to Couple League) since 1987.
Longview, TX
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:34:29 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Elisheva S. Urbas" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: referrals -- slightly off topic
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If anyone can recommend a good speech/language therapist trained in oral and
feeding issues for a 2 year old in Manhattan, NYC, I will be grateful to you
for emailing me privately.
Similarly, if anyone can recommend a trained cranio sacral therapist in
Manhattan for the same child, please email me.
Thanks.
Elisheva Urbas
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:02:03 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrician Drazin IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: breast cancer
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Jill/Teresa:
If she is have a boy the protection is still imporant breast cancer in men
in more prevalant than we realize.
Patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:04:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WIC
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Maybe I'm not understanding the whole story on this mom who was told at WIC
(after being given vouchers for formula for an almost-exclusively BF
baby???) to have her doctor "fill out a WIC application so she could get
foods". I worked in WIC for several years, and the only way I can see this
scenario is that perhaps the mom wasn't already on WIC (maybe she had other
kids on, but for some reason wasn't on herself during her pregnancy- it
happens, for lots of reasons). If her initial WIC appointment was for the
baby (which doesn't really make sense because a breastfeeding baby doesn't
get anything from WIC until cereal at 4-6 months, but if this was her
initial WIC contact she wouldn't have known that, and it sounds like maybe
at the time she was at WIC she felt that she needed some formula), it's
likely that her local WIC agency, in a well-meaning but misguided attempt to
"help her out", might have given her some formula vouchers for the baby but
wouldn't give her any for herself until she had been "certified" (i.e.
completed the application for herself and provided the necessary
documentation). Then, at her next visit, she could receive her food
vouchers, either her "enhanced package" (for mothers who are exclusively
breastfeeding - defined at WIC as baby not getting any formula vouchers from
WIC) or the "postpartum" (i.e. formula feeding or not exclusively BF women)
package. In "my" former WIC agency (Ithaca, NY), I can easily see how this
would happen, for a couple of reasons: 1) no one likes to have a baby going
hungry (never mind that all of us Lactnetters know that this isn't the case
with a BF baby; think of it from the perspective of the clerical aides who
probably saw this mom), so most people at WIC would think that giving the
mom formula vouchers was a helpful thing to do. At the WIC where I worked,
we were all incredibly soft touches, so even though giving formula vouchers
may not be either strictly kosher OR a favor to a breastfeeding mom/baby, I
can easily see it happening, and/or 2) it may have been the local WIC
agency's way of "getting their numbers up" - funding for any given WIC
program is based on the # of people enrolled in the program, so it is any
local program's own best interest to sign up and issue vouchers to as many
folks as they can. It's easier to get a baby on and issue formula checks on
the spot than to certify a new mom for the first time, and by doing so
they've "upped" their numbers.
Or maybe the "have her doctor fill out a WIC application" just meant that
the doctor (or the nurse) needed to sign her pp med form, or give WIC her pp
hemoglobin. Or maybe the mom just didn't have everything she needed with
her. New York State has recently made it a little tougher for local agencies
to fudge the rules a little in certifications - used to be we could take a
lot on the mom's say-so, issue checks, and have her bring in her
documentation "next time".
Well, this is a kind of "windy" response...must be those years at WIC
haven't let go of me yet! I'm kind of sensitive about "WIC-bashing" (NOT
that that query was!!); they certainly do a lot of crazy things with their
regulations, etc., but my experience with them leads me to believe that
WIC's motives and intentions to support breastfeeding are mostly pure. (But
if that were really true, I'd still have my job as Breastfeeding
Coordinator...hmm, maybe I'm just naive...) Am I a little ambivalent or
what???
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:12:35 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cari Friedman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Phenergan
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Is phenergan also safe during pregnancy?
Cari (New Paltz,NY)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:19:22 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: source of BF info
Comments: To: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Andrew @ RAINBOWpeds-
Thoughts about relatives, friends, neighbours vs. LC's docs, nurses, etc. as
source of BF info:
Isn't this the basis for peer counseling? Peer counselors, appropriately
educated and supervised, fill both roles; they are "peers" (folks in the
community),plus they have some of the authority (stemming from both
knowledge and experience) of the dreaded HCP's. Do we have studies showing
the efficacy of peer counseling in BF promo and support? Yes, I think so,
and if you'd like I can dig around and try to find some. We do know (and
again, I'd have to go dig for the numbers) that in the New York State WIC
program, peer counseling was adopted, and indeed mandated, statewide, as one
of the key aspects of its BF support program. This was decided upon after a
series of pilot programs in several agencies throughout the state (in maybe
1992 or so - before 1993, anyway) tried a variety of different methods to
increase the numbers of breastfeeding women in WIC; peer counseling was
deemed most effective. Since then, every NY state WIC agency is required to
have a Breastfeeding Coordinator and/or a Peer Counseling Coordinator, who
are responsible for maintaining peer counseling programs in each county.
Breastfeeding rates have risen dramatically since peer counseling has been a
required part of WIC. And we know from another study (again, I'll dig out
the citation if it's helpful to you) that it is among the population WIC
serves that breastfeeding rates have risen most dramatically in recent
years.
Is there a direct cause and effect relationship between the initiation of
peer counseling in WIC and increased BF rates? That's not so clear to me. As
the former Breastfeeding Coordinator for Tompkins County WIC, I ran a peer
counseling program. I think that peer counseling is probably more relevant
to supporting BF duration than to increasing BF initiation. But I know from
years of hearing the same story over and over again that there is definitely
a ripple effect around BFing: if a client is encouraged by a "professional"
who takes the care to establish a good rapport with her to "try"
breastfeeding (a term I dislike), and if she gets enough support that she
feels happy with her BF efforts (whether her definition of "success"
consisted of nursing the first few days so the baby got the colostrum or
nursing till the child self-weaned at age 4), she will be a more powerful
influence among her friends and family for BF'ing than a HCP can expect to
be. And the reverse is certainly true as well - if Jane found BF'ing to be a
miserable experience, it's pretty good odds that her cousin won't give it a
try!
So what am I saying here? Women listen to each other more than to "pediatric
nutrition counseling", when you get right down to the nitty-gritty. So it
seems incredibly important for us "professionals" to help women, on a 1:1
basis, have a positive BF experience, so that those women act as BF
advocates in their own circles of community and family. They don't need to
be converted into Lactnuts or Zealots or whatever - they just need to be
moms for whom nursing their babies has "worked". I think it's vitally
important for us to recognize that the definition of "working" is defined
different ways by different peer groups - it can mean anything from "I tried
it a couple of times and it didn't hurt, but it just wasn't what I wanted to
do" to "I nursed for 6 months and my baby was never sick, but my cousin
bottle-fed and her kid was at the doctor's office every couple of weeks" to
"I had to go back to work at 6 weeks, so I just nursed at night" and on
through the spectrum to full LLLism.
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC
-----Original Message-----
From: David A. Green [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 3:35 PM
Subject: Mother's info on breastfeeding
"Who taught you what and when to feed your baby?" is a common question that
is
used in pediatric nutrition studies including breastfeeding.
Usually the answers are their own mom, an older aunt, an older sister, or a
neighbor as the primary source. Geez, I just love those "my neighbor told
me...." responses! <g>
As you can see, the primary source does not include LC, nurse, dietician,
physician, baby book or whatever.
I was wondering if any LC knows of any recent study showing that LC's and/or
others are having an impact on bridging this serious gap in pediatric
nutrition counseling?
TIA
Andrew MD FAAP
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:43:03 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Donna Hansen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tiny percentages
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andrew MD wrote:
"When one is worried about SIDS and other things, the brush-off that
this or
that med might make them a "little" sleepy might not seem like a big
deal but
it might be!"
Yes, and using formula instead of breastfeeding can also put them into a
long sleep while their little system tries to digest those big proteins.
How many times have we heard mums whose baby's were sleeping for short
stretches, nursing frequently, say " I finally gave him some formula and
he slept for 3 hours!"
Tough call for some, easy for others.
On another note, I had my third call in about 2 weeks from a mum with a
breast reduction. How effective are the usual remedies for increasing
milk supply in a woman with a breast reduction and only so many intact
ducts?
Donna Hansen
Burnaby, British Columbia
Canada
note new address mailto:[log in to unmask]
(where it hassn't stopped raining for more than 2 hours every 3 weeks,
snow would be a nice change if it didn't cause widespread panic and blow
the city's snow budget for the year in about 2 days)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:37:58 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Margie Forrest, RN, BSN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chocolate and Y Chromosomes
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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<<Now I like chocolate, I'm not passionate about it like those
deprived of a Y chromosome>>
Rob, Rob, Rob,
You've got is so wrong! It is not us who are "deprived" of a Y chromosome,
but you who are deprived of a full X chromosome. We only call it a Y so you
won't realize that you are missing some genetic material.
Margie in W. Palm Beach, FL, where the grapefruits are sweet.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:34:33 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dianne Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ritalin
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Have we talked about Ritalin before?
I have a 27 year old mom with a 3 month old (14 lb.) esclusively breastfed
son. Mom was just diagnosed with ADD and physician wants to put her
on Ritalin. Told her she has to wait until she stops BF ("but you should
hurry because you will feel MUCH better when you get on the Ritalin").
Thanks for any help
Dianne Kemp
Port Huron. Michigan
PS I looked Ritalin up in Tom's book but the physician is asking for more
documentation!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:46:55 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ants on a log
MIME-version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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You take a piece of celery, spread it with peanut butter, and push raisins
into the peanut butter. Voila, looks like ants on a log, using a little bit
of imagination. I was sure that everyone in the USA used this title, but it
maybe called something else in other parts of the US. I learned it in
Colorado and we call it that here in New Mexico.
Jacie, who is getting tired of the late nights, I'm a dresser/make-up
person for the Civic Light Opera for our Christmas show "My Fair Lady"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:36:42 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ann Twiggs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: WIC
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Most of what Cathy said is true about WIC. However, in Ohio we like to
see the newborn breastfed infants as soon as possible both to sign
them up as WIC participants (and issue a coupon with nothing but a
positive breastfeeding message, if exclusively breastfed) and to offer
breastfeeding support. In Ohio only those who have been issued a
coupon can be counted as WIC participants. So even if there is no
formula given a coupon still needs to be generated.
Ann Twiggs, RD, LD, IBCLC
WIC Breastfeeding Coordinator
Columbus, OH
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:52:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Margery Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Leila's public relations work
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Leila wrote:
"I do have a speech due
on tuesday in Public Speaking, 95% of the class is
under 20. I'm doing breastfeeding. And I AM
including the young men in my class - 7 of them
4 are 19, 3 are 18.....oohh la la to get them when
they are so young and listen sort of............."
Great going! I can still remember a psychology professor at
my college (this would be in, like, 1969) bringing up
breastfeeding during a class on human development. To this
day I remember this big, burly football player raising his hand
to ask if BF "really" made a difference. The professor (a man,
by the way) spent a long time generating discussion on why
BF "really" made a difference, and I know many young
people learned something that day.
Keep up the A+ work!
~~Margery Wilson, IBCLC
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA
Sincerely,
Marcial, RN/CCE
Bebitos Educaci_n Prenatal
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:26:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Presutti, Lenard" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: Phenergan
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>----------
>From: Presutti, Lenard
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 1:22PM
>To: 'Cari Friedman';
>Subject: RE: Phenergan
>Importance: High
>
>Yes. The risk is very low with it's usage especially if it is only used for
>short periods of time after other alternatives have been used for nausea and
>vomiting.
> Len Presutti, DO
> Ohio Univ. COM
> Athens OH
>
>----------
>From: Cari Friedman[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 10:12AM
>Subject: Phenergan
>
>Is phenergan also safe during pregnancy?
>Cari (New Paltz,NY)
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:36:47 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Annelies Bon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: poor latch.......help!!
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a mom I recently counselled we found it was thrush that caused the
nipple aversion and gag reflex.
Annelies Bon
Breastfeeding Resources http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bfbronnen.html
breastfeeding counsellor of the Dutch bf org "Borstvoeding Natuurlijk"
mailto:[log in to unmask]
living in a small city, Almere, near Amsterdam, The Netherlands
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:35:59 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Anders, Jennifer F. - NH" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ritalin
Comments: To: Dianne Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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As a pediatrician who treats a lot more ADD than I want to, I would urge mom
to get a second opinion. Ritalin is a tool to help manage attention span.
For children who must stay in school and learn and behave, it is a fast/easy
way to keep them on track. For adults (as well as all children) with ADD,
the mainstay of therapy should be managing attentional problems by choosing
a suitable career, modifying behavior patterns, and counseling. I would
only use Ritalin in adults who were at risk of criminal problems, traffic
accidents, or unable to hold a job. Anyone diagnosed with ADD should have
full psychometric (extensive IQ type test) testing, psychology/psychiatric
exam, and medical exam before diagnosis. This goes double for adults.
There are far to many "Ritalin mills" out there who quickly diagnose people
based solely on the DSM-IV criteria and a questionaire. Has this mother
been evaluated for post-partum depression or other psychiatric illness? So I
urge a second opinion, or at least a thorough soul-searching of what this
diagnosis and treatment is supposed to accomplish.
Ritalin is purely an amphetamine. I am unsure of its excretion in human
milk, but I would not suggest it to a breastfeeding mother on principle.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dianne Kemp [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 10:35 AM
> Subject: Ritalin
>
>
> Have we talked about Ritalin before?
> I have a 27 year old mom with a 3 month old (14 lb.) esclusively breastfed
> son. Mom was just diagnosed with ADD and physician wants to put her
> on Ritalin. Told her she has to wait until she stops BF ("but you should
> hurry because you will feel MUCH better when you get on the Ritalin").
> Thanks for any help
> Dianne Kemp
> Port Huron. Michigan
> PS I looked Ritalin up in Tom's book but the physician is asking for more
> documentation!
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:14:29 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Johanna Berger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bf on Dr. Joy's radio show
HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pat - Ants on a log are celery with peanut butter and raisins.
Johanna Berger, LSW
Breastfeeding Counselor
Bala Cynwyd, PA
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:47:39 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Annelies Bon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fenprocoumon
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For the LC in the local hospital I am looking for information about
fenprocoumon (marcoumon).
I've searched the archives but there was nothing in it.
TIA!
Annelies Bon
Breastfeeding Resources http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bfbronnen.html
breastfeeding counsellor of the Dutch bf org "Borstvoeding Natuurlijk"
mailto:[log in to unmask]
living in a small city, Almere, near Amsterdam, The Netherlands
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:47:21 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ann Calandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Arching Baby Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Yesterday I saw a mom with a two month old son, who has been gaining weight
at about a pound a month. She had been seen by another LC who encouraged
her to take fenugreek (6 tablets TID plus 2 blessed thistle BID) to build up
her milk because of a slow gain originally. She has been doing some
supplementing as well. I watched him nurse, and he arched his back and
popped off and on the breast repeatedly, kicking his feet the whole time.
Mom says they call him the stargazer because he is always looking up. His
hands were busy as well, she was constantly trying to get them out of the
way.
I wrapped him up in a receiving blanket, just his arms, and had her tuck him
in with the football hold and his bottom up against the back of the chair.
We turned off the lights and left on just a lamp, and he finally relaxed and
ate. Took in 63 ccs.
This baby is "wired" and mom is going to try the decreasing of stimulation
and the swaddling to see if that can help him to settle and concentrate on
eating.
My question is- I wonder if this baby would benefit from cranio-sacral
therapy? I wonder what else may be helpful? I wonder if the problem is the
milk supply at all, or if it is just the way the baby is so unsettled that
it has been making it hard for him to eat well, and then he also must be
using a lot of calories with all the movements he makes. He is very alert
and doesn't miss anything. He is now at 9 lbs 7 ounces, after being 7-4 at
birth.
Would appreciate any hints from those who have had experience with babies
who arch like this. Mom says he does eat better in sidelying. Which makes
sense to me.
Ann Calandro,RNC,IBCLC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:15:54 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Jan Barger RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chromosomes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Margie writes,
<< Rob, Rob, Rob,
You've got is so wrong! It is not us who are "deprived" of a Y chromosome,
but you who are deprived of a full X chromosome. We only call it a Y so you
won't realize that you are missing some genetic material. >>
Please notice that a Y is an X with a leg missing. So Margie is absolutely
correct. Those that have a Y are missing genetic material. So sad.
Jan Barger, in sunny Wheaton -- who thinks that the only thing missing at the
moment is some Lactnet posts....????
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:00:53 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Jan Barger RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: frenotomy
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Lisa writes,
<< the
baby might swallow his tongue! Gosh, what does he think the procedure
involves? >>
Evidently he didn't learn in medical school that the frenulum is not the only
structure that attaches the tongue to the rest of the body.
Oh gosh, Lisa, that made my day!
Jan -- who admittedly had difficulty with A&P in nursing school, but was never
worried about losing a tongue down the gullet...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:20:05 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Labial Frenulum
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I have searched the archives and found posts on labial frenula, but I'd
like to know if you have found it to be a problem with breastfeeding that
should be addressed.
Baby is 7 weeks old and is going for a frenotomy for the lingual frenulum.
His labial frenulum is prominent and he can't flare his upper lip. We
aren't sure if the sore nipples are due only to the lingual.
The procedure is being done tomorrow (Friday) so if you have any experience
here, please let me know soon.
Thanks,
Patricia Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Upper Midwest, USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:50:16 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lisa Boisvert-Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: vaccine safety
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-version: 1.0
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<BTW NO ONE has been PROVEN brain damaged from a vaccine. Spreading
false info about this does a great disservice.>
-Rob
---------
The =C7ongress of the United States of America passed the National Childhood
Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, PP-660, to compensate families of children who
have been permanently disabled or died from a vaccine reaction. A parent
must first waive their right to sue the vaccine manufacturer in order to
file a claim with the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Comensation program=
.
A booklet summarizing the bill is available from the National Vaccine
Information Center. Since 1988, an exise tax is added to each dose of
vaccine to pay the damage awards.
By 1992, the program had made compensation awards of $202.5 million dollars
to individuals (or their heirs) for injury and deaths caused by vaccine
reactions.
The injuries include brain damage and death.
Our pediatrician never expressed his personal views on vaccinations althoug=
h
he did provide a great deal of literature supporting, questioning and
criticising vaccines. He encouraged us to learn about the issues and make a=
n
informed decision.
I do the same with my clients.
For anyone who is interested in learning more about vaccine risks and
benefits, a booklet titled THE IMMUNIZATION RESOURCE GUIDE; WHERE TO FIND
ANSWERS TO ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT CHILDHOOD IMMUNIZATIONS, by Diane
Rozario, provides a thorough book review of the literature regarding
vaccines. It is neither pro nor anti vaccine in bias.
Lisa Boisvert-Mackenzie, Midwife
Saipan, Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:15:06 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ann Perry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for HEENT surgeon who does frenectomies in Boston area
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Hi Mary Jane,
I know of two ENT docs who will clip a frenulum. There are a couple things to
keep in mind. these 2 guys work out of Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates so
if your client does not have Harvard/Pilgrim for insurance she may need to pay
a higher fee. Also I noted that you are out in Pittsfield, is your client also
from out there? These docs are in Chelmsford, Burlington and Medford. In
Chelmsford is Dr. Bjorn Bie and in Burlington/Medford is Dr. Terry Liu.
Margery Wilson also knows of some docs who will clip these, have you heard
from her?
If you are interested in contacting these docs, e-mail me privately.
Ann Perry RN IBCLC
Boston area
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:07:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: newman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: documentation
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Well, if the pediatrician wants more documentation, why doesn't he do what a
physician should do? Find out himself. Like, the mother could go on
ritalin, and the physician could arrange for milk levels in the mother and
perhaps even blood levels in the baby to be done. Wouldn't that just be
dandy? We would expect some to get into the milk, but it could be very
small and insignificant.
Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:20:10 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: two wrongs
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In a message dated 12/17/98 2:42:51 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< "When one is worried about SIDS and other things, the brush-off that
this or
that med might make them a "little" sleepy might not seem like a big
deal but
it might be!">>
<<Yes, and using formula instead of breastfeeding can also put them into a
long sleep while their little system tries to digest those big proteins. >>
Geez, I hate to say this 'cause my kids hear it enough already but here goes:
"two wrongs don't make a right!" :)
Andrew MD
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:30:48 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Arching Baby Question
In-Reply-To: <003001be29f6$1350ab20$732fc0d1@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>This baby is "wired" and mom is going to try the decreasing of stimulation
>and the swaddling to see if that can help him to settle and concentrate on
>eating.
>My question is- I wonder if this baby would benefit from cranio-sacral
>therapy?
This is where my mind was going before you asked. I have worked with
babies that presented like this case, and cranio-sacral treatment worked
wonders,--babies became mellow, focused little ones. I also have a good
chiropractor who is skilled in working with infants and who has helped in
cases like this.
Patricia Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Upper Midwest, USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:38:30 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ritalin
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 12/17/98 4:43:10 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< Told her she has to wait until she stops BF ("but you should
> hurry because you will feel MUCH better when you get on the Ritalin"). >>
Uh, I would feel much better too if I took a hit of speed every day!
Aside from the BF issue, a 27 year old mom diagnosed with ADD who needs
Ritalin? Gimme a break! Are there not any new reasons remaining anymore that
health care providers use as an excuse to stop BF? I thought I had heard them
all! Guess not, eh?
Andrew MD
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:53:15 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Karin Biswas Ibclc <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 14 Dec 1998 - Special issue
Mime-Version: 1.0
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NO MAIL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:36:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Benefits of Breastfeeding
Subject: [Fwd: RE: The Bottle Graphic Has Been Changed!]
Comments: To: LACTIVIST POST <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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thought you all might like to read this!
Cindy
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: The Bottle Graphic Has Been Changed!
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:01:57 -0500
From: [log in to unmask] (Robert Ginsberg)
To: [log in to unmask]
To all the Lactation Consultants who have been writing us:
Our Website, Safe @ Home, has been enjoying amazing success for over a
year
now. We have never, until recently, received a single comment or
complaint
regarding out bottle feedback graphic. Your organization has chosen to
harass us into changing our bottle graphic, claiming it will encourage
bottle feeding. We wish to stress to all lactation advocates, that our
site is strictly set up to educate people on issues relating to safety.
However, we are not interested in controversy.
We do not wish to take up any more valuable time dealing with matters
totally unrelated to our Website. Therefore, we have changed our bottle
graphic to a mailbox and hope THIS doesn't offend anyone!
We hope the lactation consultants and their supporters will celebrate
this
great victory, and move onward to more worthy targets.
--------
Karin Biswas wrote: "i think it should be changed to something more
neutral
or you'll have a boycott on your hands. just thought you should be
filled
in. too bad your site cant be enjoyed. and what does a bottle have to do
with feedback anyway??"
--------
Karen Nelson wrote: "Given the fact that your website is devoted to the
health and well being of infants and children this is certainly a
serious
flaw in the page design and something I am sure you are anxious to
correct."
--------
Dr. Jack Newman wrote: "I was surprised and discouraged by your use of a
baby bottle as a prominent graphic. I realize this is meant to be
clever
in association with "feedback"."
--------
Cindy Curtis wrote: "I think your site is a wonderful and useful site.
But
I was dismayed to see the bottle graphic on the feedback page."
--------
Mardrey Swenson wrote: "You say that the baby feeding bottle represents
feedback. Now, I do not want to appear dense, but I couldn't begin to
imagine what you meant by that! I even looked the word feedback up in
the
medical as well as the regular english language dictionary for clarity.
I
thought to myself, "A bottle has absolutely NO feedback.
The way to avoid people like me thinking about all this and instead
allowing us to concentrate on the real value of all the work you have
put
into this marvelous site would be to select another logo for your
Feedback
option on your site."
--------
Audrey Trenholme wrote: "My only complaint is that you have used a
bottle
logo. I'm so tired of seeing these devices used as symbols. How about a
different one, almost anything will do EXCEPT THE ROSS BEAR!"
--------
Joan MacNeil wrote: "Primarily, I want to compliment you on your
marvelous
site, 'Safe @ Home'. The information here is extremely helpful to
families
and is organized in a user-friendly manner. Your expertise in this area
is
clear."
Now that our bottle graphic has been changed, and Karin Biswas is not
concerning herself with thoughts of boycotts - and is sleeping much
better
these days thank you very much, why not provide a link to our site so
that
parents can protect their children from preventable accidents. You
can't
breastfeed an infant if that infant dies needlessly. If your cause is
for
better nutrition and safety for children, then promoting our site would
be
beneficial for everyone.
Think about it.
For Barbara Sklar, R.N.
Robert Ginsberg
Website Manager
Safe @ Home: http://www.safebaby.net
[log in to unmask]
CC:
Karin Biswas, [log in to unmask]
Karen Nelson, [log in to unmask]
Dr.Jack Newman, [log in to unmask]
Cindy Curtis, [log in to unmask]
Mardrey Swenson, [log in to unmask]
Audrey Trenholme, [log in to unmask]
Joan/Robin MacNeil, [log in to unmask]
Louise Dumas, [log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:27:38 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carol Brussel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: arching baby
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i have mentioned this arching baby business before, and we have had some
lengthy responses and very useful discussion of it. however, i will remind all
who are interested that i have the information concerning arching babies from
the BAB on a file that is easy to send to anyone who wants to read it. yes,
the poor weight gain is usually from the baby's difficulty nursing. it can
range from moderate to severe. the severe cases usually get weaned right away;
they just cannot nurse. i intend to encourage mothers to get cranio-sacral
therapy for this problem when it comes around again, and i am very interested
to see if it helps.
carol brussel IBCLC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:51:15 PST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 2 wk old not gaining
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Erin,
I vote that the baby is not bf EFFECTIVELY. Latch may seem ok, but may
not be. The fullness and leaking are reassuring somewhat but maybe mom
is having some engorgement as baby not getting the milk out. The red
flags are:
1. nursing all day - okay if baby shows satiety pc and pooping
adequately and gaining of course
2. sleeping all nite - would be atypical at this age but okay if baby
gaining well and milk supply good (don't see how it could be at 2 wks;
also not good for birth spacing)
3. no poops - not okay; also is baby jaundiced? I would think so.
Recommendations:
1. feed the baby - several methods to choose from - while you
simultaneously
2. fix the bf (position, latch)- and at the same time
3. preserve milk supply - expressing
4. follow wets, poops, weight
5. if this doesn't work quickly look for other causes - remember
previous posts about when you hear hoofbeats look for horses not zebras.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Hospt LC
Violet Louisiana, USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:10:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Heart problems in nursing mother
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Can anyone explain to me the relationship between birth and subsequent heart
ailments? I have a newly post-partum mother (6 days) who had a planned
C-sec for back problems. To the best of my knowledge she has no known
history of heart problems.
I got a call today from her husband from our local community hospital. His
wife (they are friends from church) was being airlifted via helicopter from
our podunk hospital to a medical center in Wash DC (about 90 minutes away).
He called while he was waiting for the helo to arrive!!
He told me she has fluid around her heart and lungs, an inefficient heart,
fast pulse and low blood pressure. This is apparently secondary to
pregnancy/delivery. The update I got later was a diagnosis of
cardiomyopathy.
Of course, she has been told that she cannot nurse her baby and she is
devastated. Fortunately, our pastor called her shortly after admission and
convinced her to keep pumping anyway (thank goodness for a woman of the
cloth who is a former nursing mother!). She told Pastor Meredith that she
could be on these meds for 3 months..."Then pump for 3 months" says
Meredith.
She was told she could nurse her baby "one last time" after they arrived
from the long drive. I suggested that until we can check the meds that she
not toss the milk and I am hoping to get the list of meds tomorrow. My
hands are a bit tied due to distance but will try to make sure she has help
nearby.
Mostly, I am curious as to what could have contributed to this condition.
Her presenting symptoms in the ER were shortness of breath and nausea.
TIA for any thoughts or suggestions.
Kathy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, LLL Leader, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"Parents are often so busy with the physical rearing of children that they
miss the glory of parenthood, just as the grandeur of the trees is lost when
raking leaves. ~Marcelene Cox ~
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:49:16 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: further documentation, etc
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would suggest that if a health care professional requires more
documentation than what is in Tom Hale's book, Auerbach and Riordan,
Lawrence, etc, he or she can do a MedLine search.
NLM's search service to access the 9 million citations in MEDLINE and
Pre-MEDLINE (with links to participating on-line journals), and other
related
databases. http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/
I for one am continually amazed at those who demand documentation with
regard to breastfeeding (this is fine by itself) , and who then practice and
give incorrect information without any documentation whatsoever. For
instance, today I have had two instances where a health care provider has
refused to treat a mother for Candida, but who didn't bother to check the
medications that I suggested ( from Jack's ointment concoction). He just
said "no," "I can't prescribe that." ACK.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont, where daylight is almost gone by 4 pm....
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Check these pages out...
http://together.net/~kbruce/proj.html
http://together.net/~kbruce/answers.htm
LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:59:42 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: G Hertz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Emperor response letter
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Response to: "Decreased Response to Phototherapy for Neonatal Jaundice in
Breast-fed Infants" from the December issue :
The article on phototherapy by Dr. Tan highlights several important issues
for consideration. While he reports a "decreased response" to phototherapy
in his breastfed only group, (1) I believe what he is observing is an
interaction between the act of beastfeeding and the results of initiating
phototherapy. It has been established that mother and baby separation has
a negative effect on breastfeeding (2). Phototherapy , as it is often
done, requires that the baby be in a nursery or central area where mothers
are only allowed visitation. Additionally, it gives the baby an
"untouchable" aura resulting in longer intervals between handling. These
types of mother baby separation interfere with the frequent interactions
needed for effective breastfeeding. In this article, the group 2 babies
began feeding at 15-60 minute intervals but changed to an average of 3 hour
intervals while undergoing phototherapy. The author credits this change
to "lactation presumably established" noting that it matched feeding
patterns from birth in the other two groups.
This highlights a second issue, that in the first several days of life,
exclusively breastfeeding infants (especially those with jaundice) need to
be actively feeding more frequently than an average of every 3 hours. It
also raises the question whether these 34 babies were feeding effectively
from birth. Jaundice in otherwise healthy breastfeeding babies after 1 day
of age, peaking by 1 week is commonly referred to as breastfeeding
jaundice. This is actually due to needing more breastmilk, not breastmilk
itself, as Dr. DeAngelis' comment would lead one to believe. This situation
is often precipitated by poor milk transfer and infrequent feeding.
Finally, as the likely cause of this jaundice is ineffective breastfeeding,
the proper solution to the problem is not supplementation with formula as
Dr. Tan concludes. The American Academy of Pediatrics Work Group on
Breastfeeding indicates that human milk is the preferred feeding for all
infants. (3) If supplementation is deemed necessary, the best choice is
expressed breastmilk given at the breast by a supplementation device. The
benefits of this are threefold: 1. Milk expression, whether by hand or by
pump will serve to increase the mothers' milk supply. 2. Human milk is
nutritionally and immunologically the best food for human babies. 3.
Supplementing at the breast will further stimulate milk production.
Supplementation with formula holds none of these benefits and in fact is
linked to early breastfeeding termination and a reduction in the
immunologic protection that exclusive breastfeeding affords.(4)
It is to Dr. Tan's credit that he recognizes that breastfeeding should not
be suspended when dealing with hyperbilirubinemia.
Gail S. Hertz, MD, IBCLC
Pediatric Resident
PennState Geisinger Health System Children's Hospital
PO Box 850
Hershey, Pennsylvania 17033
1. Tan KL. Decreased response to phototherapy for neonatal jaundice in
breast-fed infants. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 1998;152:1187-1190.
2. Cadwell K. Bilirubin status as an outcome measure in monitoring
adherence to Baby-Friendly breastfeeding policies in hospitals and birthing
centers in the United States. J Hum Lact 1998;14(3):187-9.
3. American Academy of Pediatrics, Work Group on Breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding and the use of human milk. Pediatrics 1997;100:1035-9.
4. Hill PD,Humenick SS, Brennan ML, Woolley D. Does early supplementation
affect long-term breastfeeding? Clin Pediatr 1997;36(6):345-50.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:40:01 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Ahrendsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Phenergan
Comments: To: Cari Friedman <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Is phenergan also safe during pregnancy?
Cari (New Paltz,NY)
IMHO Safe enough that I use it frequently. No drug is 100% safe. There is always a chance of a peculiar reaction
Jon Ahrendsen MD ABFP
Clarion, Iowa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:59:22 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Ahrendsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ritalin, ADHD and BF(long)
Comments: To: Dianne Kemp <[log in to unmask]>,
"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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I treat alot of patients (mainly children, some adults for ADD/ADHD)
I agree with the concerns about using Ritalin in the BF mother.
However, I think you need to remember the risk benefit ratio
(and make certain the diagnosis is correct) If the mother is
just at home now I really doubt that she has a great need to
take medication at the present time.
I use the TOVA test (Test of Variables of Attention) to evaluate the effectiveness of medication
( and to confirm make the diagnosis). I find that this helps me
dramatically find the correct dose of medication (and sometimes
the correct medication). I use more Adderall than Ritalin,
sometimes one med. works much better than the other. I find
that the test allows me to use a lower dose than what is
commonly used. One of the problems in IMHO is that many
Drs. give too much medication and cause sedation,
that gives the Ed a bad name.
For more information about the TOVA visit
http://www.tovatest.com/frames/toc.htm
If you contact the company you can find a provider that
uses the TOVA that lives close to you.
It is also worthy of noting that there is one study of ADHD
boys that showed a significant difference in both the incidence
and duration of BF between ADHD boys and control boys.
The study is:
Journal: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1995; 62:page 761-8
Title: Essential fatty acid metabolism in boys with ADHD
Authors: Stevens, Zentall, Deck, etal
Address: JR Burgess, Dept. of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University
Stone Hall, West Lafayette, IN 47907-1264
Summary: 53 Subjects with ADHD had significantly lower concentrations of
key fatty acids in the plasma polar lipids than did the 43 control
subjects. Although not proven by the limit study as a cause, BF rates
between the two groups were significant.
Control Group ADHD Group P Value
Percent BF 81.4% 45.3% P< .0003
Duration of
Breastfeeding 6.5 mo. 2.5 mo. P< .0001
Now my comments again: Long chain fatty acids are know to be high in
breastmilk and lacking in formula. These compounds are felt by some to be
responsible for some of the claims of decreased IQ and vision in formula
fed infants. The skeptic will say, " I gave my kid formula and he is an
honor student so there." The unknown thing is that we don't know how much
smarter that child would be if s/he had been given breastmilk.
As there appears to be a familial tendency of ADHD it would be in the
mother's best interest to BF as long as possible to lessen the
likelihood of ADHD in the child (and a whole host of other problems as well.)
Jon Ahrendsen MD ABFP
Clarion, Iowa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:50:45 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeanne Mitchell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Peer Counselors
MIME-Version: 1.0
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There is some good data to show the effectiveness of the peer counselor
program in WIC. Check out the Texas Dept. of Health page:
http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/lactate/peer.htm
There is a link to some charts and graphs that may help.
We've seen a dramatic increase in the number of exclusively breastfed
babies, and an increase in duration. It's not unusual now for WIC staff
to tell us they see toddlers nursing. :-D
--
Jeanne Mitchell, Austin, TX
http://www.flash.net/~xanth/home.htm
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"You can tell the quality of a person by how
they treat people they don't need." My Dad
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:57:54 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Carol Schlef, RNC, MSW, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heart problems in nursing mother
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I took care of one mother who had a similar situation a number of years ago.
Quite a sad case, actually. This particular mom had a triple whammy. At 3
months' pregnant, she suffered a stroke that left her paralyzed down her right
side for several weeks. She fought back from that, got lots of
occupational/physical therapy (and me as a "private instructor" in infant
care, to help her learn to handle her baby despite residual weakness), then
developed pre-eclampsia & delivered 5 weeks early by c-section. Pumped &
eventually bf without much problem.
Five weeks after delivery (on her DUE DATE, no less!), with baby home &
healthy & thriving on her milk, she too developed SOB, was rushed to hospital,
where she arrested in the ER. Her OB (also mine) did open cardiac massage on
her, & said her heart had "turned to mush". Apparently she had some sort of
autoimmune reaction, & her body "turned against" her heart, rejecting it as if
it were a transplanted organ.
Yes, THIS woman died...I ended up babysitting for the funeral (who else could
they find to leave a 5-week-old premie). The "nice" ending to this story, was
that just before the family left for the funeral, I said, bitterly, to my
patient's sister, "How can she be in heaven if it means being away from her
baby?" And the sister answered, "You just watch after we leave and the house
is quiet...she's still right there with him!" Sure enough, after everyone
left, the baby woke and started to cry, but before I could get across the room
to him, he'd calmed and was smiling and gurgling, looking directly at a spot
by the side of his crib.....all I could do was say "Hi, Joanne".
So to make a long story longer, perhaps Kathy's mom had a similar autoimmune
reaction, just not as severe.
Carol in St. Louis, having just gotten home from teaching bf and having a
prolactin surge....
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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:55:50 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carol Brussel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: donor milk
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thanks darlene for mentioning that your milk bank has plenty of milk. i would
like to say, however, and just on my own account, although i think everybody
at my local milk bank would agree, that a baby who is receiving the "other
stuff" is NOT a healthy baby.
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:20:35 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Darlene A Breed <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heart problems in nursing mother
How interesting. I had a consult with a mom just a few days ago that had
a six day old infant and she too was dx with cardiomyopathy. Her "new"
cardiologist recommended that she stop breastfeeding. She immediately
asked to have me come see her before discharge. The med she was taking
was an ACE inhibitor, Zestril. Hales book stated not reviewed by AAP,
but alternative drugs were Captopril (AAP approved) and Enalapril (AAP
approved). I gave the mother the information and spoke with the resident
and nurse caring for her. The resident stated that they were all easily
interchangeable. She put in a call to the attending. Well the attending
went nuts about how he was being second guessed by a Lactation
Consultant, "after all he was ONLY a cardiologist!" Well he did change
the Rx, but he wouldn't talk with the mother and refused to talk to me.
The resident wrote a new script and the mother went home with plans of
breastfeeding and taking the Captopril.
Yesterday I got a phone call from the Home Health Nurse who did the f/u
visit. She was instructed to go in and help this mother stop
breastfeeding and discuss her CHF (Congestive Heart Failure). Mom was
beside herself because she had never been told she had CHF. The Home
Health Nurse phoned me and told me how the mother never heard from the
cardiologist about her dx and the mother was planning on seeing a
different cardiologist and breastfeeding. I sent a copy of the consult I
had with the pt to the Home Health Nurse. Fortunately had cc's of
everything in the chart as well (Thank you Tom Hale). Interesting
coincidence!
LLL Breastfeeding Answer Book states women with cardiac problems
actually do fine because the prolactin relaxes the smooth muscle and also
helps with blood pressure. Used the Bibliography for references in the
chart with the consult also.
Mom is breastfeeding, feeling well and on Captopril. I haven't found out
who she will see as a cardiologist yet, but was unable to reach her
today. She is determined and I am glad for her. I can't believe that
the physician would not speak to the patient, a newly dx heart condition.
Talk about poor bedside manner as well as no concern for the fact that
he was adding extreme stress to a mother with a cardiac problem. I've
gone on long enough......off the soap box.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Darlene Breed, BSN, RN, IBCLC
Worcester, MA (USA)
On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:10:17 -0500 Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
writes:
>Can anyone explain to me the relationship between birth and subsequent
>heart
>ailments? I have a newly post-partum mother (6 days) who had a
>planned
>C-sec for back problems. To the best of my knowledge she has no known
>history of heart problems.
>
>I got a call today from her husband from our local community hospital.
> His
>wife (they are friends from church) was being airlifted via helicopter
>from
>our podunk hospital to a medical center in Wash DC (about 90 minutes
>away).
>He called while he was waiting for the helo to arrive!!
>
>He told me she has fluid around her heart and lungs, an inefficient
>heart,
>fast pulse and low blood pressure. This is apparently secondary to
>pregnancy/delivery. The update I got later was a diagnosis of
>cardiomyopathy.
>
>Of course, she has been told that she cannot nurse her baby and she is
>devastated. Fortunately, our pastor called her shortly after
>admission and
>convinced her to keep pumping anyway (thank goodness for a woman of
>the
>cloth who is a former nursing mother!). She told Pastor Meredith that
>she
>could be on these meds for 3 months..."Then pump for 3 months" says
>Meredith.
>
>She was told she could nurse her baby "one last time" after they
>arrived
>from the long drive. I suggested that until we can check the meds
>that she
>not toss the milk and I am hoping to get the list of meds tomorrow.
>My
>hands are a bit tied due to distance but will try to make sure she has
>help
>nearby.
>
>Mostly, I am curious as to what could have contributed to this
>condition.
>Her presenting symptoms in the ER were shortness of breath and nausea.
>
>TIA for any thoughts or suggestions.
>
>Kathy
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Kathy Koch, LLL Leader, BSEd, IBCLC
>Great Mills, MD
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>"Parents are often so busy with the physical rearing of children that
>they
>miss the glory of parenthood, just as the grandeur of the trees is
>lost when
>raking leaves. ~Marcelene Cox ~
>
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:02:18 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Morrison IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Marmite soldiers
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Marmite soldiers are little strips of buttered toast and marmite. You dip
your soldier into your soft-boiled egg, slosh it around until it's soggy
with egg-yolk, then bite off it's head, having dripped yolk in your lap en
route to your mouth. It's messy and totally delicious, the perfect finger-food!
Pamela Morrison IBCLC, Zimbabwe
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:57:20 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ritalin
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In a message dated 12/17/98 8:12:39 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< Well, if the pediatrician wants more documentation, why doesn't he do what
a
physician should do? Find out himself. Like, the mother could go on
ritalin, and the physician could arrange for milk levels in the mother and
perhaps even blood levels in the baby to be done. Wouldn't that just be
dandy? We would expect some to get into the milk, but it could be very
small and insignificant.
Jack >>
Geez, I don't know many pediatricians that have 27 year old patients! :)
Saying that a small and insignificant amount of Ritalin would be in the breast
milk is the equivalent of saying a "small and insignificant amount" of cocaine
or amphetamine in the breast milk. Speed is speed is speed.
Measuring Ritalin levels in breast milk or even blood levels? And what lab in
the world would and/or could do that? Even if you could find a lab that would
perform that "crazy" test, you would not know what to do with the results?
Like, uh, what is the normal range?
Andrew MD
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:06:15 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: PrMechell Roberts Turner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ADD/ ADHD;long
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DEar folks,
About all this ritalin stuff with the mom, if she is a stay at home mother
why the meds. If she works maybe only for a work time then no other. Withh
ADD staying on task is a problem expecially for long concentrated work. As
with children motherhood at home is from one task to another quickly.
Sometimes we stop mid ways to do something more important. The only thing
with the kids however is they tend to dagerous stuff without thinking of the
consequences.
As a woman with 5 count them 5 in the house with the disorder check some
genetic history as well. yes all have been diagnosed with some level of
severity. 4 of the five have dyslexia as well. Yes two different disorders
but lots of times in combination. The kids were tested At Bowman Grey
Hospital in Winston Salem NC. My husband was tested by Mrs Orton herself,
way back in the 60's. Here my husband and i fought long and hard about
medications for our children. Yes, all were breastfed, including hubby for
about 9 months. Children from oldest to least- 10 months , 2 years, 3.5
years and 4.2 years. The split in children is even 2 eldest boys, 2
youngest girls. we as a family have becone permanant research subjects along
with many others to help with these weitrd combinations of gifts/ disorders.
Husbands reation to medication - allergic reaction- period. no more
and his feeling no more for the kids period. Well he was taugh a bunch of
coping methods all of which have helped. Still can't quite finish something
unless he is at work. Takes a while at home. he hs tried to pass them on to
the kids. The boys and last girl are not on medication, buy ritalin has made
all the difference for the eldest dayghter now 8 years old. I was fit to be
tied. My oldest son is having some success with ginko and SJW combination,
but i still think he could benefit some from the meds. But in a few weeks he
will be 18 and can make up his own mind. The two youngest seem to have
faired better, because we got very early help with speech therapy and
remediation.
The second son though has add without the hyperactivity.
By the way ritalin and adderall is expensive in US even with insurance
covering part. Maybe not in other socialized medicine countries. My daughter
has shown no side effects as of yet and actually has grown better, and
better appetite than without. But we do not give her the stuff on weekends
and holidays- on a rare occasion i have to see formyself how it is working.
School is still tough for the elders in the family. Stephen, the hubby has a
steady job and has had the sme one for years now. (of course since they keep
him locked up from 7 until three doesnot hurt) He is the maintainence man
for the local prison unit. He seems to be pretty level without the meds.
if mom decides to use it - watch the mom and babe closely. see if a nearby
teaching institution will get levels in her milk and the reactons of the
babe so we will have more in writing. this is just personal experience.
Thak you docs for agreeing that this medication is sometimes overprescribed
and a crutch for not dealing with the problem first hand.
Mechell Turner- who some days are a mad house with this bunch.
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, December 18, 1998 12:03 AM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 17 Dec 1998
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:06:38 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ann Perry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heart problems in nursing mother
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Hi Kathy,
This may not be what is happening in your mom but I did notice that you said
she had a c-section.
When I was in L&D we had a mom who recieved an excesive amount of IV fluids
with her epidural and ended up with CHF. Now this happened within a day of her
surgery so with your mom being 6 days post-op this probably is not the case.
The case I know the mom was transfered to the CCU put on diuretics and had a
nice recovery.
I agree with Darleen's note to find a cardiologist who is interested in the
dyad and what is important for this mom so she will have a smoother recovery.
I'm am sure there are meds that could be precribed to assist this mom and
still maintain brfdg.
Good Luck
Ann Perry RN IBCLC
Boston, Ma
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:25:25 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ann Perry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: blood and pain from breast
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All right all wise ones my coworker has a case that is baffling everyone.
Mom is around 7 weeks PP. Through most of the time PP has been complaining of
deep br pain in one br. She states it is sharp at times but mostly dull and
achy, noted at end of fdg and some between. She has been on 2 courses of
Diflucan (2 weeks each) with no relief. She had no hx of high risk for yeast.
Baby has been gaining well.
Last week mom noted baby spitting up blood and brought infant to hospt. They
did many tests on the baby and could find no source of the blood. Mom denied
blood from breast.
Mom had been doing some pumping on the effected side and had the suction all
the way up so "she would not lose her supply". The grandmother did say this
week she noted blood in the milk, but threw it out so not sure how much. Baby
spit up bl again and was to return to hospt for possible surg. My coworker got
the call and when she heard about the pumped milk put a stop to the admission.
Now I know there was a recent case on Lactnet about bl in the milk but I did
not hear if they found out what caused it and did it resolve?
Our theory is this mom has done some trauma to her breast, either from the
pump or injury. We are going to have her stop the pumping, encourage her to
brfd from that side, take ibuprofen for the pain, and use heat or cold for
comfort. Watch the next 5 days if there is any relief and hopefully someone
out there can give use some guidance.
Ann Perry RN IBCLC
Boston, Ma
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:15:11 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J. Rachael Hamlet" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More formula advertising on the web
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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An ad for a website selling baby products (among many others) has come to my
attention. It is an animated picture. First frame shows a baby with the words
"Taking care of baby was never so easy." Next frame adds an arrow pointing
to the baby's mouth with the word "formula". The following frames add arrows
pointing to the baby with the words "health", "diapers", and "hygiene." The final
frame changes the "Taking care of baby" text with the merchant's logo
"MyBasics.com" and "life just got easier" and then "Click Here" The ad
appeared on a web site (www.storksite.com) which has previously accepted
advertising from Carnation (Nestle).
My quick perusal of the baby care section of MyBasics.com convinced me that
these people are absolutely clueless about the needs of breastfeeding mothers
and babies and could gain from a little *gentle* education from the lactation
community. I would emphasize a positive message that they are missing an
opportunity by possibly alienating breastfeeding moms with their ads. By
changing the ad to use the word "feeding", instead of "formula" and by having a
seperate section for breastfeeding supplies (breastpads, pumps, nipple care),
they could better appeal to those mothers. As it is now, they are selling
Lansinoh in one section, and the Ross (!) breast pump in another (we might also
want to gently suggest that a formula company has a motive to market a
breastpump that is harmful to breastfeeding and recommend Medela and Avent
products). Consolidating the breastfeeding-related items in a "breastfeeding"
section would help mothers find these items. Here is their email address:
<[log in to unmask]>
Happy emailing to all!
Rachael Hamlet
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:50:03 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Sue Carson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: staffing
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Evening people......Does anyone recall any recommended staffing ratios for
hospital based LC's???
For example How many LC's per 1000 births with a 50 - 75% b-f initiation
rate????
I remember seeing something written somewhere but am suffering from memory
loss, or life overload??????Any input would be helpful....thanks in
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:18:39 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BM & epileptics
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Breast-feeding is NOT contraindicated in women taking epilepsy drugs,
according to NEW American Academy of Neurology recommendations on managing
women of reproductive age who have epilepsy. The benefits of breast-feeding
outweigh the slight risk of adverse effects due to medications in BM, although
infants of women taking sedating antiepileptic agents should be monitored for
sedations, the recommendations say (Neurology 51 [4]: 944-48, 1998). The
American Academy of Pediatrics reviewed these recommendations, which were
based on an extensive literature review!
Andrew MD
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:28:03 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rotavirus vaccine & BM
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Just in case you have a doc say something about breast-feeding not compatible
with the Rotavirus vaccine, I wanted to let you know the facts.
Although breast-feeding HAS BEEN demonstrated to decrease the immunogenicity
of SINGLE doses of Rotavirus vaccine, NO overall effect has been noted on
immune response or efficacy after administration of 3 DOSES of Rotavirus
vaccine.
Pichichero ME. Effect of breast-feeding on oral rhesus rotavirus vaccine
seroconversion: a metaanalysis. J Infect Dis. 1990:162:753-755.
Rennels MB, Wasserman SS, Glass RI, Deane VA, US Rotavirus Vaccine Efficacy
Group. Comparison of immunogenicity and efficacy of rehesus rotavirus
reassortant vaccines in breastfed and nonbreastfed children. Pediatrics.
1995;96:1132-1136.
Andrew MD FAAP
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:38:38 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David A. Green" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New growth charts
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New growth charts are expected to first become available in January or
February 1999. They will not separate breastfed & bottlefed infants but at
least they will not be solely based on formula-fed infants. They will be able
to be viewed, downloaded and printed through the CDC's home page
(http://www.cdc.gov).
The charts will later be published and distributed by the government without
advertising.
Andrew MD FAAP
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:38:57 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: newman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: cardiologist
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gee, it's physicians who act like that who give the rest of us a bad name.
What a bedside manner!
Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:42:29 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: newman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ritalin
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Okay, a slip of the keyboard. But Andrew, your sarcasm does not do the
topic justice. It is not true that a little bit of cocaine is the same as a
lot, and the same goes for any drug. But we are not talking about cocaine,
we are talking about ritalin, and a small amount may be insignificant to the
baby. Why are you so indulgent towards formula, another drug, in my
opinion, which also has side effects, some of them quite severe.
Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:43:47 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leibovich <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Non gaining baby
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Erin,
Have you obseved a nursing? I had a very similar case, and this was a third
baby. Mom was sure baby was swallowing and eating well - like previous
babies, but when observed, baby almost didn't suck and swallow at all -
like Jack Newman says - she was just pretending to feed. The lack of poops
is a very red flag that the baby is not getting enough food, and so is
nursing constantly all day. I think you should first follow the most
important rule - Feed The Baby. If possible EBM by SNS, if not - by any
other means. The baby may be to weak to suck well, and giving her some more
food might improve her suck.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Mira Leibovich, MD, IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:49:46 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Betty Emmons, RN IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: dark green stools
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Hi, I've been lurking for a long time and learning alot from reading everyones
questions and answers. Now I have the question. I am an IBCLC working in a
pediatrician's office. Today a woman called me about her 3 wk. old son. She
has been bfing without difficulty. Babe having lots of wet diapers and yellow
stools. Now, as of yest. Babe very fussy, nursing q1-2hrs., only had 2 voids
and 1 dark green stool today. Mom states he acts like he is having gas pains.
States she has not changed her diet, can hear baby swallowing. Mom is nervous
because her last child started doing the same thing at the same age. Ended up
having bld. in stool caused by protein intolerance and was told to stop bfing
which she did. 'She would really like to continue bfing this one if at all
possible. Have any of you heard of this and if it is protein intolerance,
does she need to stop bfing? Looking forward to your answers.
Betty in very cold and snowy Maine...finally!!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:39:06 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Pat Lindsey, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: low supply/ low thyroid
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I had an interesting case today that I would appreciate the collective wisdom
of all you wiseones. I am presently no-mail, so please e-mail me with
response as well as Lactnet.
Mom in late 30's, mother of five children ages 18, 16, 14, and a nine day old.
Fourth child was killed in an accident when only 28 months old. The fourth
child was breastfed at time of death and the mother continued to produce milk
for over a year when she saw a doctor who did an MRI and found problem with
pituitary, blood work revealed elevated prolactin levels. The doctor
prescribed parlodel which she took for about a month and lactation ceased.
Present baby, nine days old, was born at home delivered by midwife. Birth
weight was 8# 8oz, was seen in our office within 24 hours for new baby check.
Weight was 8# 5oz. Mom called and scheduled appt. with me on Tuesday due to
concerns that baby wasn't getting enough. Called and rescheduled for
Wednesday, then, canceled Wednesday. I called her and she indicated that baby
was stooling more and she felt things were improving, I suggested that she
might want to just bring the baby by for a weight check. Today (Friday), she
brought baby in with "brick dust" urine to see a doc. Baby was down to 7# 5
seemed very dry and yellow. Bili was only 9.6. Mother told doc that she
feels her milk just came in yesterday. Doc referred mom over to me for
assessment of breastfeeding. I watched baby at breast, good latch, I did
improve positioning some. No sign of swallow, no weight gain. I tried a tube
on syringe and gave a little glucose water at breast to illustrate to mom what
a nutritive suck-swallows looks like and she said she had not seen these.
Mom had completed my two page history and I began asking questions. I
discovered mom has been on synthroid for several years for low thyroid, but
she had stopped taking it for the past 2-3 months. She never knew
discontinuing it could effect supply. She did realize that her supply was slow
to come in and has been having her 18 year old who is nursing an 8 month old
to nurse the baby twice a day.
I had mom pump with Classic for 15 each side only saw one drop from each
breast. Present care path is to have mom resume taking synthroid, start taking
fenugreek and blessed thistle. To feed baby at breast using SNS, 8-10 times
per day. Lots of skin to skin contact and offer breast anytime baby wants to
suck. Did not recommend any pumping at this time as baby had a nice suck
pattern at breast with SNS. First priority was to feed the baby and get some
weight on the little guy.
They will be in on Monday to see me again, I will keep you all posted with
outcome.
Any suggestions would be appreciated along with any educated guess as to how
long it may take to establish a supply. Thanks lots, you all are the best.
Warmly,
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
Pediatrics Plus staff LC and Private Practice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:26:06 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "John M. DiMichele" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heart problems in nursing moms.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched
To: Darlene Breed (and anyone else who has ever had problems stepping on an
MD's toes),
Reading your account of recommending medication changes to your client's
cardiologist made me think, "No surprise there!"
Pride is not a rare trait among physicians, and as a group, we don't like being
second-guessed (then again, who does.)
In the community where I practice Pediatrics I try to make it a point to be the
common link between other docs in the community and lactating mom-infant pairs
(even those who might not be my regular patients) to help with such problems.
A typical scenario might be that I get a call from one of our LC's about a med
problem. I can then cal the doc and say something like:
"Ms. Smith says you're treating her for such-and-such with drug X. I take care
of her daughter Janey who is breastfeeding, and that's something we really need
to continue. Is there something like drug Y or drug Z that you can use
instead?"
More commonly the doc just tells mom to stop breastfeeding, but the drug they
are already prescribing is OK, in Hale's book for example. Then I might call
them and tell them it is OK to continue to nurse and that I would take the
resposibility for making that decision as far as the infant is concerned after
talking it over with mom.
The bottom line is that most docs will take such requests from other MD's better
than from individuals they don't know or whose credentials they don't
understand. Pride is often the problem and I won't try to defend that.
However, an MD would be unwise to take advice about a serious problem from
someone whom they did not know or whom they are not sure was truly trained to
deal with the problem.
Ultimately, the point of all my talking is this: if you can, get permission
from mom and enlist the help of the baby's MD (if there is one) to act as the
messenger. It's more likely not to lead to a confrontation, and it keeps the
baby's doc informed of what medication mom is on should the baby have a reaction
to the drug in question.
John DiMichele, MD, FAAP
St. Johnsbury, VT
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:31:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ritalin - off topic
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Would you believe one of the HMOs requires yearly tests for Ritalin on
their ADD/ADHD patients! Actually I never get around to because I can't
figure out when to do it - predose? post dose? How long pre? How long
post? :-) Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:46:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: low supply/ low thyroid
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mom should have thyroid levels checked and not begin taking synthroid
willy-nilly. Needs to check in with her PCP or endocrinologist. They need
to know she has been off drug for several mo. May restart more slowly.
Sometimes can cause cardiac problems if begun at too high a dose too
quickly. Would continue all tricks to enhance supply and supplement baby
at breast until this is all resolved. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:58:31 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: The Hamiltons <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: another site with gratuitous bottle graphics...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Nice job, Cindy and everyone else, on the Safe@Home site change. I didn't write to
complain, so I wrote to thank him for removing the offender. I mean, he seemed so
happy to do it. ;-)
But alas, I was just alerted to another.
Please go to
http://www.tylenol.com/
and you won't need to look far to see "Taking charge of your health" with a montage
of photos, including one of a baby sucking a bottle.
How 'bout it?
Joanne Hamilton
Foley, AL
--
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:18:49 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lisa L Black <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alfalfa-increasing milk supply
MIME-Version: 1.0
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About Alfafa increasing milk supply. I have been taking it personally
and I can see an obvious difference. I have actually been taking one
with vitamins and minerals added too.
I read about it in a book called_Smart Medicine for a Healthy Child_.
Under the herbal section it states:
Medicinal Use- Tonic, contains natural fluoride, helpjul in preventing
tooth decay
Part of Plant Used- Leaf
How Given-Tincture;tea;capsule
Possible Side effects- None known
Comments- Excellent for increasing the production of breast milk.
In another Herbal book (Growing and Using the Healing Herbs) I have
lists: anise, basil, dill, fennel, holy thistle, nettles, parsley and
thyme as milk increasers also.
It also states that it is rich in many vitamins and builds capillary
strength and reduces inflamation of the stomach lining. It is the
vitamin P.
Alfalfa tea helps in digestion of proteins, starches, fats and sugars.
It is rich in many important nutrients, including calcium, phosphorus,
iron, potassium, essential enzymes, choline, sodium and silicon, as well
as vitamins A, B6, D, K and P. They use it to treat ulcers with
surprisingly good results.
Lisa Lynn Black
Jordan (5), Chandler (3) and Grasyn (7 months on May 7th)
Loving wife to Steve for 9 years
Student Midwife in Dallas, Texas
Aol Instant Messanger: DlsMidwife
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:55:15 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Labial frenum
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>>Baby is 7 weeks old and is going for a frenotomy for the lingual frenulum.
His labial frenulum is prominent and he can't flare his upper lip. We
aren't sure if the sore nipples are due only to the lingual.<<
Yes these can cause problems; if it is uncomfortable for baby to flange the
lips, she will purse them more and may end up sliding down on the nipple,
not to mention possible nipple soreness. Haven't had one cut yet, though.
I just had baby #2 with restrictive lingual frenulum yesterday, four days
old and unable to latch on at all. He can stretch his tongue over his gums,
but when he opens wide and lifts his tongue, it makes that classic heart
shape. The breast just bounces off the bunched tongue every time..... of
course I've recommended a frenotomy, which mom is amenable to. At the same
time I noticed that both the upper and lower labial frenum were
questionable, but I don't know yet if they are truly an issue since we've
had no latch whatsoever. Baby is on nipple shield for the time being, and
struggling even there.
Lisa Marasco, BA, IBCLC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:24:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: The Kitts Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: labial frenula
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01BE2ACC.CA257520"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Nursing Drew was very painful!! I thought he just had a super strong =
suck,
which he did-developed most likely to hold onto the nipple. He would =
clamp
down with an incredible ferociousness! I was constantly breaking the
suction and repositioning him. At night, I was saying "ouch" all night
long, because I would doze off, he would slip a little and clamp down =
hard!
If nursing had not been the only way I would raise a child, I might have
weaned.
Clipping the upper frenulum is something few docs will consider until
preschool, as a tight upper frenulum can interfere with speach, but =
mostly
they do it for cosmetic reasons as it causes a gap between the teeth. At
this baby's age, clipping may be enough. Drew actually had a =
frenulectomy
(at 17 months), with sutures and all, but his was so thick and tight =
that
liquids collected under it causing holes in his upper front teeth along =
the
gum line. I was shocked at suddenly finding nursing comfortable! =20
Good Luck!
Patty Spanjer, IBCLC
Dalton, GA
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BE2ACC.CA257520
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3510.1400"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><BR>Nursing Drew was very painful!! I thought he just had a =
super=20
strong suck,<BR>which he did-developed most likely to hold onto the=20
nipple. He would clamp<BR>down with an incredible ferociousness! I =
was=20
constantly breaking the<BR>suction and repositioning him. At night, I =
was saying=20
"ouch" all night<BR>long, because I would doze off, he would =
slip a=20
little and clamp down hard!<BR>If nursing had not been the only way I =
would=20
raise a child, I might have<BR>weaned.<BR>Clipping the upper frenulum is =
something few docs will consider until<BR>preschool, as a tight upper =
frenulum=20
can interfere with speach, but mostly<BR>they do it for cosmetic reasons =
as it=20
causes a gap between the teeth. At<BR>this baby's age, clipping may be=20
enough. Drew actually had a frenulectomy<BR>(at 17 months), with =
sutures=20
and all, but his was so thick and tight that<BR>liquids collected under =
it=20
causing holes in his upper front teeth along the<BR>gum line. I =
was=20
shocked at suddenly finding nursing comfortable! <BR>Good =
Luck!<BR>Patty=20
Spanjer, IBCLC<BR>Dalton, GA<BR><BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BE2ACC.CA257520--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:36:22 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Gabrielle McFarland, LLL Leader" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: another site with gratuitous bottle graphics...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I certainly think there are at least two other complains to be made, along
with the graphic.
One is the statement "doctors agree that , at first, newborns should be "fed
on demand" -- that is, every time they are hungry. After a month or so, most
babies tend to have a more regular feeding schedule." So, therefore we should
no longer feed them when they are hungry??
Two is "Research suggests that suggests that infants under 3 months are not
able to digest solids or to swallow at will. But after the 3 months mark,
some babies are ready to start trying solid foods."
taken from http://www.tylenol.com
Gabrielle (just south of Cincinnati, Ohio) LLLL
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:20:40 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Donna Hansen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tylenol website
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi all,
Joanne found this site http://www.tylenol.com/ and it has info on infant
feeding, all you have to do is click on the bottle graphic. Here's part
of what is said about starting solids.
"Research suggests that infants under 3 months are not able to digest
solids or to swallow at will. But after the 3-month mark, some babies
are ready to start trying solid foods. One
common rule of thumb is that your baby can begin eating solid foods once
she weighs 14
pounds or has doubled her birthweight."
Gee, both of mine would have been ready for solids at about 2 or 3
months according to this. Must have been doing something wrong in that
they didn't have much interest until 7 or 8 months.
Donna Hansen
Burnaby, British Columbia
Canada
mailto:[log in to unmask]
(we had the most beautiful sunny day today after 40 days and nights of
rain, there's even a forecast of snow for Monday, I can't wait!!!!)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:49:05 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: The Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chocolate and Milk (not exactly breastfeeding related)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I agree with Dr. Rob and Dr. Kim that those who like milk and can
tolerate it should not be made to feel that this is a bad choice. I
always feel cheated if I can't have milk with my chocolate (and usually
get a headache from the sugar if I don't--I realize that the best choice
would be to skip the chocolate altogether, but it tastes so-o-o good).
Milk is one of my favorite foods. It's okay by me, though, if we
substitute chocolate for the fruit group. My kids started whole or 2%
cow's milk from a cup (in addition to breastfeeding) at around 6-8
months of age, and they all like milk.
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC
whose family drinks at least a gallon of milk a day, milk being the
usual reason for a trip to the store
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:11:35 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leibovich <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MDs and Medications - rant
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I liked Dr. John DiMichele's post on MDs, drugs and breastfeeding very
much. My problem is that as one of the few MDs knowledgable in bf in this
country I often get contacted by mothers (many referred by LCs) whom I
don't know, and who live far away. LCs or LLLL don't tell a mother that
their doc is wrong, but suggest that they contact me to get a second opinion.
One of the worst was last week. I got a call at 10:30 pm from a woman who
heard about me from a nurse who was at a lecture of mine. This woman's
sister had a baby by C/S 10 days ago. 4th baby, bf well, previous child
severe milk allergy to this day. She went to see a doctor (OB/GYN) for
lower abdominal pains and fever (not her regular doc - she was staying at
her mom's). This doc thaught of UTI, or maybe an infection in th C/S
incicion, and prescribed amoxycillin (which isn't the drug of choice for
either of these conditions), and told her to pump and dump for 5 days. He
explained that the drug gets into milk, and there is no reason a healthy
baby should get an antibiotic. Mom explained about milk allergy, asked for
a bf compatible drug - but doc didn't change his mind. She asked about
pumping, and doc told her just to get a manual pump in a drugstore and
pump. At the time they called me mom was crying - had severe engorgement
(of course no milk could be pumped with the pump), baby had gotten one
bottle of formula and was fussy, and they were at a loss what to do.
How can I react to such a case? I had to tell mom to disregard docs orders
and go ahead and nurse. I also told her to see another doc in the morning
if she doesn't feel better.
This doc sees bf as a means to get food into a baby, and this can be done
just as well by formula in a bottle, without the risks of an
antibiotic...HE never tried pumping 10 days post-partum with a manual pump.
I don't think that he understands the importance of bf for the baby and
mother, and I doubt he would if I tried to explain.
I get calls like this all the time - mastitis treated with amoxycillin and
mom told not to nurse, jaundice of 10 at three weeks - mom told not to
nurse, moms with classic symptoms of breast thrush told they have a low
pain threshold, and psychologically don't really want to nurse, and all the
rest which you all know too well.
I talk to and see all these moms on a voluntary basis because I don't do
private practice, and I just feel sorry for them - they have no-one to turn
to. Most are phone consults, but I try to see as many as possible, and then
I give a detailed letter for their own docs - but I don't know if they give
it to him, or if he learns anything.
I often feel very frustrated, and reading Lactnet has helped me a lot in
recognizing that this is a universal problem, and not just here. We have a
long way to go...
Mira Leibovich, MD, IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:17:48 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Margie Forrest, RN, BSN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: New Growth Charts
Mime-Version: 1.0
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It's about time!
Margie
<< New growth charts are expected to first become available in January or
February 1999. They will not separate breastfed & bottlefed infants but at
least they will not be solely based on formula-fed infants. They will be
able
to be viewed, downloaded and printed through the CDC's home page
(http://www.cdc.gov).
The charts will later be published and distributed by the government without
advertising. >>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:28:12 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Kathleen G. Auerbach" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: NEED LC in Muskegon, MI
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Anyone out there! I need contact with an IBCLC with experience with
dietary problems in or near Muskegon, Michigan. Please--if you know
someone--get in touch with me PRIVATELY. Many thanks.
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as impossible situations."
Kathleen G. Auerbach,PhD, IBCLC (Ferndale, WA USA) [log in to unmask]
WEB PAGE: http://www.telcomplus.net/kga/lactation.htm
LACTNET archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:56:57 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Alwyn Goodall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Christmas poem and marmite
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ann have you been peeking in my window. How did you know that my
Christmas tree has been in a stand in the living room without a single
ornament for two days and I'm just sitting reading Lactnet. Well I've
finally finished the last Christmas card and now maybe I can catch up on
4 days of lactnet posts.
I also have a jar of British marmite sitting by my computer since I had
to compare the ingredients to vegemite. Besides the ingredients listed
in vegemite it has Folic Acid
2500 micrograms and B12 and spice extracts. My MIL liked it. The jar
I have has 125 servings. If anyone in Phoenix would like it, please let
me know. Magda, please don't share this with my cousins in Uppermill
who were so kind to give this to us for MIL. She passed away before she
started this jar.
Judy in Phoenix--heard a Tucson winter wonderland song on the radio this
morning--Gone away are the blizzards, here to stay are the lizzards.
Couldn't write fast enough to get the rest of it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:20:46 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: identifying thrush
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I feel like I just had a lightbulb go on. Docs, please tell me if I'm right.
Not infrequently, the client of mine whose baby has a whitish tongue is
told that her baby does *not* have thrush. Sometimes the moms follow thru
and treat it anyway, sometimes they don't. Certainly some of the time
treating the whitish tongue that isn't thrush resolves both the whiteness
and the sore nipples (my goodness!). But I've tended to defer to the docs'
opinion at first, figuring that they see a whole lot more tongues than I do
and are far better able to judge it than I am. And I've always wondered
why the docs so rarely accept that those borderline tongues could be
thrush.
In preparing a mom yesterday for the possibility that her doctor would say
it wasn't thrush and wouldn't prescribe, it hit me that doctors never had
to bother with whitish tongues in bottle-fed babies. It's unlikely that it
bothered the baby in any discernible way, it sure wasn't causing sore
rubber teats, and there was no reason for them to learn to recognize it or
even look for it. Rampant thrush, yes, but anyone who's seen even one
picture of rampant thrush will know it when s/he sees it. But those iffy
cases? They've probably never even noticed them. And here comes this LC
talking thrush in situations where no one else has ever mentioned it.
Therefore it couldn't be thrush.
I wonder now if doctors in general are no more skilled than *I* am at
distinguishing between a mildly thrushy tongue and a tongue that's just
whiter than average. Lactnet doctors, is this a logical thought sequence?
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:20:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: vomiting due to mastitic breast?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The mother of a 2 year old is wondering: could he have been vomiting
yesterday after nursing from her sore-therefore-possibly-mastitic breast?
She's not about to stop, of course, but wondered if the two have ever been
connected. I told her I'd never heard of it, but that I would ask.
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC, LLLL Ithaca, NY
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:33:55 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ann Perry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alfalfa-increasing milk supply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Lisa,
Are you sure about the parsley increasing milk supply? I have read and
recommended this for the opposite, when I'm working to get the down.
Any one else clear this up?
Thanks,
Ann Perry RN IBCLC
Boston, Ma
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:21:00 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Linda Bojman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Preterm milk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Wise ones, I have a patient who has a preemie which is 33 week old now. She
is pumping her milk and bringing it to the NICU. I would like to know when
the preterm milk turns into mature milk. Thank you in advance. Bye Linda
Bojman, MS,RD,CLE living in SAn Diego, CA.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:00:45 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tongue tie..please respond to [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This from a friend... anyone having a referral to a doctor willing to
perform this surgery in a local
referral to the Washington, DC metropolitan (or even Baltimore, MD)
area!...let me know.
Kathleen
My 17-month old son is severely tongue tied. The frenulum comes to the tip
of his tongue, and if he sticks his tongue out it is heart-shaped. He has
been able to nurse well since birth compared to what I have read about other
tongue tied babies. Since he is my fourth I have some experience and also
probably have lots of those theoretical "prolactin receptors". It is
interesting that with my third and second children I seemed to be constantly
battling back an oversupply situation, but with this baby I have a regular
supply. He has grown normally. He is advanced developmentally in all ways
except orally. So I shouldn't complain right?
Nursing has never been as comfortable as with my other children. I found
nursing him with his chin into my breast rather than his nose touching made
it much more comfortable for both of us. I can also not just do it
automatically; I have to pay attention to his positioning even now. At
first it was like being a first time mom all over again. It was a two-hand
job. Now, I can adjust him by moving my elbow.
Now that his front teeth are in and he has begun the normal toddler
"wigglies" I notice that there are times that I am uncomfortable nursing and
sometimes afterwards. He has difficulty getting his tongue over his teeth;
he can't seem to do it while breastfeeding. Nursing is not our major issue
though. For me nursing IS mothering at this age or a very large part of it,
so there is no question that I will not continue until he outgrows the need.
Our concern at this point is his development at each new oral milestone is
delayed. Delays aren't a problem if they are just delays, but how do you
know whether something is a delay or if it is something he will never be
able to do? In my reading, I have also found references to many other
future problems that he will probably encounter. These children have
difficulty or are unable to self-clean their mouths resulting in a higher
incidence of tooth decay. There was one page on the web which claimed that
children with tongue tie are more prone to choking than other children are.
There is a likelihood of speech delays or difficulties. He was much slower
to babble than my other children were. He will definitely be unable to lick
anything. He has been slow to be able to eat solid food. He couldn't eat
soft food like apple sauce until recently. At nine months he learned to eat
small bits of bread and rice by rocking it back and forth on his tongue and
"walking" it back far enough until he could swallow it. At that point our
pediatrician still didn't think he had a problem.
His tongue tie is stretching out somewhat from when he was tiny. It has not
split spontaneously before age one on its own as our pediatrician thought it
would when he was born. She said then that the normal tumbles of a baby
learning to crawl and walk would cause it to tear. Wouldn't you know that
he would have great large motor coordination and walk very early, cruising
at 6 months and walking at 8 1/2? I couldn't believe it! He also didn't
get his first tooth until he was almost a year old. (Maybe I shouldn't have
been so vigilant about not letting him run and climb with things in his
mouth? haha)
The pediatrician referred us to an oral surgeon who agreed that his
"pathology" needed treatment. He lied before our visit and said that he
would do a "frenotomy" in his office at the visit if it was needed. He told
us in person that he would never consider such a barbaric procedure, because
it could rip all the way up into his tongue especially with fragile baby
tissue. Instead he wanted to do a frenulectomy in the hospital under
general anesthesia. He wanted to remove a "V-shaped" wedge and some muscle
tissue as well even though that is normally structured. This would require
several stitches. He was very overbearing and persistent. He was also
annoyed and patronizing when I said I would need to have a second opinion
from an independent source before considering this invasive and more
extensive surgery. I am not comfortable with him as a person much less in
following his advice as a doctor.
I have spoken with a speech therapist. She has never seen a tongue tie this
severe. She is also not used to dealing with children this young. The
tongue ties that she has seen in older children and adults while they were
less severe resulted in significant speech difficulties, which is of course
why she was seeing them in the first place. While people learn to make the
sounds required for speech by moving their tongues and lips in many
different ways, we will not be able to tell until he is at least 5 whether
he will be able to compensate or not. By that time he will have already
have developed habits that might take many difficult years to overcome.
Also, She did say that some speech experts believe there are learning
windows for making certain sounds, so even if he did learn to use his tongue
better but more slowly a very extended delay itself could be a problem. She
did recommend that we play at sticking our tongues out at each other as much
as possible to encourage stretching, which is something that we have been
doing since he was born anyhow. We just do it more often now. While she
was helpful in talking to us about this, she couldn't recommend anyone who
could do a frenotomy either. Her usual practice is to have the parents get
their own doctor to refer the child to an ENT or oral surgeon. That is a
dead end for us.
I also visited a GP who is also an LC (LLLL's suggestion). He was a 1 1/2
hour drive away. This man is comfortable doing frenotomies on newborns. He
was very sympathetic. He agrees that the procedure needed is a simple
frenotomy, but he personally was not comfortable doing it on an older baby,
who has teeth and might wiggle. (My husband was willing to hold him still.
Wouldn't a cradle board be another option?) He recommended that we find an
Oral Surgeon or ENT who could do it under general. He isn't located near us
and couldn't refer us to anyone who he knew would be willing to do this. We
will have the procedure done under General if we have to, but to be honest I
am not sure that the risks of General Anesthesia are warranted in his
situation.
It is very confusing and upsetting. There are so many opinions and
variations in outcomes for children who have tongue tie and also in what
procedure to get done if any. It is an enormous responsibility to do the
right thing for our child. He has managed to overcome his delays so far.
This could well be wishful thinking. I can't see into the future. It is
not at all clear cut. It is an uphill battle just finding each new
referral. It is upsetting to go to each new appointment. I have to collect
myself afterwards and get my courage up each time I think I taking my child
in where he may have minor (to someone who isn't the mom) surgery.
Thank you for your help.
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont, where daylight is almost gone by 4 pm....
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Check these pages out...
http://together.net/~kbruce/proj.html
http://together.net/~kbruce/answers.htm
LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:01:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on monarch.sover.net) Pkersula from
arc1a137.bf.sover.net [209.198.81.139] 209.198.81.139 Sat, 19 Dec
1998 19:07:43 -0500 (EST)
From: kersula family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The rudeness of cardiologists
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I am reminded of my dear friend and co-Leader, Lynn Wickberg, who after her
cardiology and neurology rotations in med school stated, "Cardiologists
think that they are God. Neurologists know that they are not."
(Now someone will have a terrible neurologist story!)
(And of course you know the difference between doctors and God. God doesn't
think (s)he's a doctor.)
Apologies to all our lactnut docs.
--Dawn Kersula in snow-dusted southern Vermont (RN, FACCE, IBCLC and happy
after a lovely day at work with a lovely new breastfeeding mom and baby)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:17:57 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Kathleen G. Auerbach" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: growth charts
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Don't get excited about the growth charts coming out of the CDC.
#1) The do not distinguish between breastfed and bottle-fed babies.
#2) Are they standardized? We will not know until seeing them.
REAL standardized growth charts will be available that uses BREASTFED
babies as the norm by around 2003. The study being used will have many
hundreds of babies in it from at least 7 sites worldwide and thus will be
applicable to all groups.
We don't know WHAT group of babies the CDC charts are based on? only
Caucasians? only US kids?
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as impossible situations."
Kathleen G. Auerbach,PhD, IBCLC (Ferndale, WA USA) [log in to unmask]
WEB PAGE: http://www.telcomplus.net/kga/lactation.htm
LACTNET archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:50:58 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Wendy Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: medications and milk
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Mira
I agree completely with what you say about talking to mothers whose MDs have
advised that they stop breastfeeding because of taking medication.
I am in a similar position to you in the UK. As a breastfeeding counsellor
and a pharmacist I updated a leaflet and made my name and phone number
available to mothers and professionals wanting to check out safety. I get
literally hundreds of calls a year to my home as well as at my phrmacy. I read
out the information from texts particularly Dr Hale's invaluable one. I'm
often put in the difficult position of wanting to say- there is no reason for
you to stop, I try hard to read the info and let them make their own decision.
One woman I spoke to recently told me she was just going to lie to her doctor
( her decision!) which I think is a terrible indictement of the relationship
they have.
I am currently carrying out research to find out what mothers want to know
about safety of medication passing through their milk and how these needs are
met by their family doctor and pharmacist. Some of the stories are quite heart
rending.
But I think little by little we will educate more people to the inestimable
value of breastmilk which far exceeds the usually small risks of medication,
if it's needed.
My other bug bear is how few medics remember to treat mother and baby with
thrush - and often I hear the baby shows no symptoms so it cant be present but
they only look at the tongue not the roof of the mouth or cheek pouches or
listen to other symtoms like pulling of all the time.
I'll get off my soap box for today and go back to decorating the tree. But
thought it might help to know it appears to be a universal problem and others
are in there with you .
Happy Chritmas to all
Wendy Jones
Breastfeeding Network, Portsmouth, England
Pharmacist
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:04:56 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Janet Vandenberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: My letter to Tylenol
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I am surprised at your choice of a baby being bottlefed as a graphic
for your page. It is ironic to see such a picture next to the word
health. Breastfeeding is certainly a healthier choice. Are you
perhaps trying to link into the issue that formula fed infants have
a higher incidence of illnesses such as ear infections and might be
more frequent consumers of your products?
While you may think this is a small issue, it is images like this
that have made bottlefeeding and formula appear to be the normal
method of feeding infants.
As an advertiser, it would benefit society for you to not contribute
to the myth that formula is a heathy lifestyle choice. I doubt that
you will feel comfortable about switching this graphic to one
showing a baby nursing, but I would ask you to think about why you
would hestitate to show such a natural, human interaction and
reflect upon how the images of bottlefeeding and lack of images of
breastfeeding have perhaps made the sight of an infant nursing
controversial.
Perhaps a graphic of a mum and baby cuddling could be substituted?
--
Janet Vandenberg, RN, BScN, IBCLC
Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:27:02 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: holidays
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I would like to remind all of you who are busy with holiday plans to set
yourselves nomail, if you are planning on travelling..etc.
To do so
send email to [log in to unmask]
mail should read
set lactnet nomail
Thank you, and may you all have safe trips, warmth of family and friends,
and peace in this solstice time.
Kind regards,
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont, where daylight is almost gone by 4 pm....
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Check these pages out...
http://together.net/~kbruce/proj.html
http://together.net/~kbruce/answers.htm
LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:40:36 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: The Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Doctors, Please publish
Comments: To: Hertz Gail <[log in to unmask]>,
Newman Jack <[log in to unmask]>, Shaw Linda <[log in to unmask]>,
Wight Nancy <[log in to unmask]>
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Lactnet doctors,
I would like to add my voice to those asking our great Lactnet docs to
publish--case studies, letters, research when possible in physician
journals, such as Pediatrics. The strongest thing I have on tongue-tie
comes from Dr. Jain. It is a one-page summary of the frequency with
which tongue-tie was done and why and a brief statement about the
results. It has changed the mind of at least three doctors who have
read it. I package it with a few other things I have, but none are from
physician peer-review journals.
TIA.
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC
from the S.W. USA--mostly cloudy today, but still shirt-sleeve weather
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:43:38 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: The Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Two Weeks Before Christmas" poem
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Ann,
Loved your "Two Weeks Before Christmas" poem. My family did, too. Just
glad they haven't yet decided to set me NOMAIL.
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC
from the S.W. USA
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:45:07 +1100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: Amir <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying thrush
Comments: To: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
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>I wonder now if doctors in general are no more skilled than *I* am at
>distinguishing between a mildly thrushy tongue and a tongue that's just
>whiter than average. Lactnet doctors, is this a logical thought sequence?
>
I'm sure you're right, Diane. As a LC / GP I have a good look in the baby's
mouth - on the examination couch, under a good light. Often the parents
expect you to look in the baby's mouth while they're holding the baby, or
the baby is still in the capsule (this is what the baby has travelled in the
car in, and parents can carry it inside like a basket).
As a doctor, mainly we are looking for something serious - is there a heart
condition that hasn't been picked up?, etc. We are taught that oral thrush
is common in infants, and not very important.
Lisa Amir
GP / IBCLC in Melbourne, Australia - had a soft boiled egg last night - and
couldn't resist trying vegemite on my toast "soldiers". My kids were
horrified - they both hate vegemite! (sorry another cultural stereotype hits
the dust!).
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:47:25 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
From: NECSI <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MDs and Medications
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Mira,
It is a wonderful service that you provide to all the
mothers who have no where else to turn. How many MDs are
there with training in lactation? Is there an effort to encourage
MDs, particularly OBs and pediatricians to become IBCLCs or is there
some training in lactation they could receive that would allow others
to provide the service that you do? What kind of incentive can be offered
to
make it worth it for MDs to do so?
Naomi Bar-Yam