Hi all, I know my post was long......... but does anyone have anything to add? The mom knows I was hoping for some input from a world wide group of experts! I tried to show that I had covered as many bases as I could think of but we are still struggling here and while I am not looking for a "magic wand" if any one has one I'll take it! beth i think the post said "very recessed chin" if you are looking for it *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html To reach list owners: [log in to unmask] Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask] COMMANDS: 1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome