I have been reading with interest past posts about when babies need to be fed, how much, etc. Especially delaying the early feeding by 24 hrs, etc. I am wondering how happy these babies were? Are we talking babies born as I was under 'twilight' anesthesia or babies born without medication for pain? I am wondering if these babies cried themselves to sleep in the nursery or were peaceful and content? I ask this because I find it odd to say that because in the past babies were left hungry due to protocol that babies do not need to eat. I have been at births where there are medical interventions, babies are sleepy and uninterested and show no desire to suckle or eat and I would agree there may be no urgency to force the issue with alternative to breastfeeding. But, what of those babies who are screaming and rooting and showing signs that they need to be fed? Would it be appropriate to deny them food for that 24 hours of the past becase we can? Or is it more appropriat to feed them, even if it means formula because there is not an alternative available? Perhaps we can work on limiting the amount of those early feeds to more closely mimic what would normally be available. Very little is needed, this is very true, but nothing at all for a crying hungry baby is not the answer I would want. What is really normal for a baby to want at birth or shortly after? Do we look at those babies who do eat well at birth and say that is normal? And feed the other babies accordingly? Do we expect babies to cry in hunger have it ignored as a welcome to the planet? When do the needs of the baby and the emotional impact of being left to cry in hunger outweigh the risk of the formula? Do we really know enough to say that it is fine for a baby to go 24 hours without any noursihment if that baby is not content with our choice? While I completely agree that the marketing of formula is obscene and I detest it's pervasive acceptance as normal and equivalent to mother's own milk, I wish we could find a place to accept that a hungry baby has the right to be fed even if that means formula. While formula is less than optimal, it beats the heck out of hungry. I agree it should be used sparingly and only as needed...like any other medical intervention. Perhaps that would appease me...present formula as a medical intervention. No one thinks a mother is somehow 'less than' if her child needs medical care or regular medications, etc. Instead we feel bad for her, bad for her baby and the struggles they face and support them as they develop ways to provide this necessary care for their child. Formula use should be like that....what is needed if normal is working, but not something you are made to feel horrible about needed. It's the idea that bottle feeding is just fine, formula is just as good, etc. that irritates those of us who want to protect brastfeeding. And, I understand that. But there needs to be that middle ground. That place we walk with mothers who have no alternatives but to provide a pharmaceutical replacement for what they cannot produce. Now, how do explain that formula is not the evil incarnate the mother believes it to be....and that it is what she will have to feed her babies because her breasts did not develop. How to explain that the same way she needed 'help with her fertility' she will need help with feeding her babies? How to explain that it is not the nurses fault the formula was given and they were definitly NOT wrong. The babies were indeed screaming and rooting and all the skin to skin and sucking was not getting them food. Yes, it is sad, yes, we are so sorry that this is what was needed, but babies need to eat. Mom had a cesarean, she was in pain, babies were put to breast within less than an hour after birth, were skin to skin in recovery and attempted to suck on the inverted nipples on skin over muscle. Not so much as a drop of colustrum to be found on hand expressing (and I am very good at hand expressing) and babies were screaming. Ideally we would have used a feeding tube at the breast, but mom was so uncomfortable she did not want to continue having the babies on her. They had been skin to skin for over an hour each and she was exhausted as were they. The nurses were awesome, respectful and gentle, but hearing the babies scream was hurting me, it had to be hurting the mother. If I believed that formula was poisonous and would do irrepabable damage and no baby should ever receive formula, how could I possibly comfort mothers who will not have alternatives? My goodness, unless milk banks start popping up on every corner, I see it is either breastfeed, pump, or use artificial baby milk options we have. Casual milk donation? Sure an option for some, but most mothers would not be comfortable with that choice. It certainly is not readily available anyway. So, for me, I see that babies have a right to be breastfed. They have a right to the normal way of being fed...skin to skin, mouth to breast, sucking and one with their mothers. I think all babies deserve breastmilk to come with that effort, but I accept that it is not always possible. So, if I can protect the breastfeeding, but cannot promise the milk to go with it, I am able to work. I am able to tell mothers that the process is equally important. That it is sad and unfair their breasts are not able to produce sufficient milk, but indeed they can be breastfeeding mothers. If I have to pick one part of my work that breaks my heart the most....it is babies who want to breastfeed, mothers who want to breastfeed, and breasts that are not going to make the milk that should go along with the process. I cannot add to that pain for the mothers by pointing out the shortcomings of artificial milk or what their babis have lost -- they are painfully aware of that reality. I have had my trio of milk supply issues this month. I should be done for awhile. I hope. Milk supply issues are the hardest for me...the body defying the mind's desire....just so unfair. Take care, Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLC *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html Mail all commands to [log in to unmask] To temporarily stop your subscription: set lactnet nomail To start it again: set lactnet mail (or [log in to unmask]) To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet or ([log in to unmask]) To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]