I am so grateful for the descriptive account of PPD. I've often wondered
exactly what separates PPD from simple exhaustion and adjustment. I have one
friend who simply says she felt "so sad, all the time" and yet she felt that
this really did impair her ability to function, to be mother and
(obviously ) to enjoy her new child.
Thank you Claudia for sharing, I wonder if you would mind if I printed this
out to save for potential sharing with moms in the future. I could easily
remove your name if that would make a difference.
I am curious to know if any of you either as professionals or as moms have
used homeopathics in this kind of a situation? Or other alternative
therapies (like diet, accupressure, accupuncture etc) instead of or in
conjunction with allopathics? The one friend I have used homeopathic sepia
with her 5th and 6th children and found it to be very helpful. I I know
others who have used B vitamins and cleansing diets with (they feel)
success.
Victoria Fisher in W. Md.
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:52:29 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Fishers8 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: apologies
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Corrine,
I wanted to apologize right away about the mistake I just madein my =
post to Lactnet, I wrote Claudia in reference to your post on PPD.I am =
sorry. I even read through and edited the rest of my letter. Sigh. =
Gotta get more careful.=20
I think I'll go back to my knitting, at least there I can rip out any =
mistakes!
Victoria Fisher
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:59:15 -0400
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From: newman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: single ventricle
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This is not an older child, he is only 2 months old. Where are the
cardiologist's references that it is less stressful for the baby to bottle
feed, huh? There is no evidence the baby will be less short of breath on
the bottle, but he would be definitely short of breast.
As for fortifier, if it were really necessary, it can be given by nursing
supplementer, couldn't it. Babies respond to flow, and if they get good
flow, they do not work hard at the breast.
Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:09:17 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sande Park <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 2000 - Special issue (#2000-659)
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Thanks to all of you for info last week on paxil mother gave all info to ped
and is continuing to nurse a success story.
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:15:01 -0500
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: treating "reactive depression"
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> A general rule of
>thumb in the field is that a reaction, such as depression, should be treated
>if it does not resolve within two weeks, by therapy, meds perhaps, or both.
Well, I guess this just blows me away. Who decides that two weeks is all
one is allowed to feel bad about having stage two breast cancer and ONGOING
HORRIBLE TREATMENT???? I have never been able to accept, as a mother, the
cultural rules in Mali that a mother is "allowed" to grieve for three days
(three days!!!) for the death of a child and then is expected to get back to
work, business as usual. Of course people know that the mother will still
feel bad, but she is expected to be functional after three days off for
grieving. Are people in the US officially supposed to "get over it"
(whatever major trauma "it" may be) in two weeks or else
medication/counseling is called for? I just find this amazing. It took me
at least 8 months to stop grieving about having a child with Down Syndrome
-- every day for those first eight months I would wake up, remember, and
cry. Then I would go take care of my adorable little baby boy. I don't
think medication is the appropriate response when the person has a damn good
reason to feel bad. Guess this touched a nerve, not meant to be taken
personally by anyone, please.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 02:39:32 "GMT"
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Hi Cheryl, Cant help with a reference (I'm at my day job!) but I do know
here in NZ I have heard a number of anecdotal accounts (and I think there is
a research base) of "heart" babies blood oxygen saturations being markedly
higher after breastfeeding compared to alternative feeding methods - by
breastfeeding here I mean nursing at the breast as opposed to breastmilk by
other means. The pediatric team at our national unit theorise it is a
combination of an easier feeding method (particularly cf bottles) and the
nurturing minimises/reduces stress. A local leader's first baby had
extremely serious defects that required several major surgeries in his first
18 months and she tells some wonderful stories of nursing him when he was
critical and his condition improving dramatically on the monitors literally
within seconds. And I have heard it from others. Perhaps something else to
consider here.
__________________________________________________________
Message sent by MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au/
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:40:03 -0700
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PPD realities
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Corine: Thank you so much for sharing your explicit thoughts experiences
during PPD. It is so relevant for anyone dealing with bf moms. My husband
and many others I know, don't "believe" in PPD as a "real" problem. Even my
mother, a life-long bi-polar manic depressive, has bought into the "pull
yourself up by your own boot-straps" concept (quoting Dr. Laura in the
process). They believe that women are using this as an excuse for erractic
behavior, or behavior from which they are trying to escape responsibility.
I say this not as a psychiatrist, but as a PPD victim. During times that I
have not been on SSRIs, I have experienced depressive bouts. After a series
of miscarrages, I was "taken off" Prozac. I then became pregnant again and
miscarried in my second trimester; following this, I had severe PPD. I was
suicidal and did some things that I am not now very proud of (not directly
hurting anyone, but I actually lost my best friend and co-LLLL because of my
actions). I subsequently went back on SSRIs (Effexor) and conceived again
with last child. I tell you this because there are many out there who could
reach out and don't; then there are those who openly ridicule and contribute
to the problem.
Whether problems are "real" or perceived, the human body can create chemical
imbalances that SSRIs, and other pharmaceuticals, can help to rebalance.
For many people, it helps THEM put their lives back together--it does not do
it for them though. However, it cannot undo the damage done to
relationships during the "bad" times. I would be happy to discuss this
privately with anyone wanting more detail or specific insights on what one
can go through in this ordeal.
I'm very uncertain about posting this, so please no rotten cyber-fruit.
-- Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:44:35 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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On the thread about Depression...this is one very tricky condition. Who
knows whether the brain chemicals alter because of the circumstances or the
circumstances that are perceived as overwhelming cause the brain chemical
balances to be altered. Chicken or egg. One thing is sure, and that is that
being able to talk to someone empathetic and caring when one's emotions feel
like they've been part of a deck of cards playing 52 pick up is going to be
very helpful. We need to be able to listen, empathize and realise when a
client's situation is in need of a care level above our ability to give.
Sometimes depression responds very well in theraputic situations without the
use of any medications whatever. Sometimes meds are needed intermitently and
sometimes long term. IMHO, I think we grab the Prozac as the "answer" way
too quickly - not that it doesn't serve a vital purpose.
I've lived with a spouse with acute clinical depression for 5 1/2 years, and
without any SSRI's, he's impossible to tolerate for anybody else as well as
himself. I have my own opinions about his course of therapy and medication,
but still, there are so many ways to approach and deal with this EXTREMELY
debilitating condition. I am personally more inclined to refer to a
professional therapist when it "feels" like it's gone too far. Try
documenting that one! Guess I think that it's better to err on the side of
caution and refer, than to sit by idly and watch somebody circling the drain.
No easy or even consistent answers on this one, at least not to me.
Gretchen Andrews, BA, IBCLC
private practice, So CAL USA
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:08:35 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Depression (long)
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Since I inadvertently opened this can of worms, I'll try to be more clear,
though some have already expressed many of my thoughts. As Corrine has so
poignantly and eloquently expressed, PPD is real and I never meant to imply
otherwise. While any depression can be and often is debilitating, I think
the addition of a baby who needs 24 hr. care makes it especially insidious.
Having said that, I was responding to a small amount of information--that the
mother was 7 mos into it and the Zoloft wasn't working. As Jack has pointed
out, that whole family of drugs tend to work about the same. Generally, when
one switches from Paxil to Prozac for instance, it often isn't because it
isn't working but because of undesirable side effects. Therefore, I was
concerned that this mother needed more.
As to the question of whether Prozac will lift the mood of someone in a
devastating life situation the answer (in my experience) is a resounding
"maybe". However, one of the common accompaniments to SSRIs is a feeling of
*everything* being dulled around the edges....not just the pain, but also
life's pleasures--certainly not a good thing for a young woman with cancer
who needs to be able to laugh and be joyful when possible. There may be
sexual side effects that can be quite serious. Sometimes they create
anxieties. The list is long. So, one would have to ask whether this will
truly help someone overwhelmed by life's sufferings. And maybe she just
needs to grieve, which may include crying all the time. If I were running
the world this woman would have something like a Grief Duoula who could
lovingly care for her 24 hrs. a day for a while.
My other concern is that often, I think patients are given the meds because
it's easiest for the HCP. It is a lot of *work* to walk with a burdened
person and help to carry the load. Just like it's "easier" to hand a can of
formula than it is to spend hours "fixing" the breastfeeding, so too I think
(women especially) patients are often given a pill and sent on their way.
And it is just as dismissive as the can of formula. I'm not suggesting that
this is what's happening with this particular mom or any of the patients
cared for by Lactnetters (whom we know are all wonderful!). But of most of
the people I know on various antidepressants, accompanying therapy is the
exception, not the rule.
I've become convinced that we see so much depression of all kinds because we
now have three generations of adults whose brains developed without the
proper nourishment (breastmilk) as well as decades of parenting styles that
promotes distance between mothers and babies, rather than attachment. Add to
that any other insult such as substances used in adolescence or abuse or
whatever and we have a society of sub-optimal brains, souls, and psyches.
The task of sorting through a given depression is not easy, but in the case
of young mothers, vitally important.
Nancy
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:58:11 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Rachel Myr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bravery on Lactnet
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I wish to express my admiration and appreciation to Corinne, Elisheva and
Chris, for sharing personal information with Lactnet. This is a list which
engenders trust. Let's stay worthy of it.
My bravery goes only as far as saying that my own experience supports the
conclusions they draw.
I am very grateful for the awareness that many people may be confronted by
the need to use medication while breastfeeding, so that we can learn which
of these medications are preferable for BF mothers.
Lactnet is the best!
Rachel Myr
Kristiansand, Norway
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:16:01 -0400
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Almond milk?
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One of my pet things is L-Lysine. I do know that almonds are a
high-arginine food and human milk is high-lysine. Would make me a little
reluctant to substitute almonds for mama's milk. Teach mom to hand express
or pump! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:22:15 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: novice to expert/RN vs nonRN
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The full ref is "From novice to expert: Excellence and power in clinical
nursing practice." Menlo Park: CA. Addison-Wesley Publishing Company
(1984).
I agree, it applies to everyone in any profession. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:35:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby with heart condition
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I believe the references re: oxygenation are from Paula Meier's work.
E-mail me if you need specific ref. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:52:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Cheryl::
I would use the premie ref and assume that if this holds true for premeis
it also holds true for term babies... see if you can arrange a crematocrit so
you know the actual ( at that reading) of kcal's of mom's milk... would mom
be open to some lactoengineering of feeds and some ( probably night)
unrestricted?
Patricia
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:09:47 EDT
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Subject: Re: Herbals and BF, any danger?
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Yvonne -
What has happened to the baby who had fever, lost weight, mom was group B
strep positive, and was treating baby herbally? Many of us were alarmed at
the dangerous situation this babe was in. Did the baby get taken to the
hospital for treatment? How is he?
Cynthia D. Payne, IBCLC
In the Berkshires of western Massachusetts
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:12:30 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: reactive depression
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Kathy:
yes, in america ( in my experience) one is expected to "get over it" ....
I too am appalled and am very quick to tell people that gieving is a LONG
process and there is NO time line/ it is a ery raw nerve for me as well.
Patricia
<< Are people in the US officially supposed to "get over it" (whatever major
trauma "it" may be) in two weeks or else medication/counseling is called for?
>>
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:21:30 -0500
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From: "Kerri J. Bundy" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: newborns, teeth and their effect on breastfeeding
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Dear Lactnetters,
I offered to pose this question for a recent doula client. Her baby was born
with a tooth. It's lovely, was slightly loose, but at seven days, it's not loose
anymore. It has given the baby a worn, almost ulcerated spot on the underside of
her tongue.
So here is my list of questions: It doesn't seem to affect breastfeeding but mom
worries that Baby Anna's tongue is sore and in turn so her nipples will be due to
baby's changing use of abraded tongue. Or will the baby learn to cope with the
tooth? Will the tooth need to be removed (suggested by a HCP)? Are the teeth
babies are born with extra or is it simply an early eruption of the normal
deciduous teeth? How much time is too much to obsess about the pearly, white
tooth?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!
Kerri Bundy RMT, CD, LLLL in sunny, hot College Station, TX
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:17:23 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan & Moshe Srebrnik <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FTT
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I would appreciate any input on the following case:
27 year old primapara, HCP, highly motivated. IVF due to male
infertility. No allergies/food sensitivities in either family. Baby
born 37 wks. vaginal delivery with epidural. Apgar 8/10. A bit blue at
birth and given O2. Mother claims baby was very lazy nurser in the
hospital. After 1 week of bf, mother began supplementing with EBM.
From week 1 to week 6, the baby nursing plus EBM and gained on average
10-20 grams per day. The pediatrician told her to supplement with
Similac. The baby began to show blood in the stools which increased
with each bottle. The ped then switched her to soy-based formula as a
supplement which the baby vomited from + diarrhea. The mother then went
back to bf + EBM. THe baby lost 20 grams in a week. Now the baby is
breastfeeding and getting supplemental Nutram'gn twice a day 120-150 cc
per feed.
This baby is really worrying me. He looks very scrawny and is clearly
FTT. He does not milk the breast well at all. It is almost as if he is
giving up. He does enjoy being on the breast for comfort. If it was
just a problem of a baby not doing well at the breast, why wouldn't he
gain on expressed mother's milk? Why only 10-20 grams a day being fed
10x per day? Another red flag is the baby's severe sensitivity to
formulas. I am sending the baby to a specialist and suggest blood
work. PKU test was neg. Blood glucose levels normal. (Mother had
gestational diabetes from week 34.) Baby does not appear "floppy" and
suck is coordinated. I have take the mom off of cow's milk although
being a vegetarian, she isn't thrilled with the idea. The mother will
not go for an SNS.
Any help would be appreciated.
Susan Nachman-Srebrnik, IBCLC
Ranana, ISrael
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:20:45 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Latterner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: depression
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Guess I came across too cavalier with my post on reactive depression and the
"two week" statement. I by no means feel that grief can be over in two
weeks, nor is this what the "2 week" guideline means. It is a means of
assessing whether intervention is needed (it could be needed before 2 weeks)
but if symptoms of depression, acting out, etc. go on and on, then help is
probably needed to sort things out and try to get to the root of the problem.
This means rather than taking the attitude of "things will get better" or
"pull yourself up by your bootstraps," or "she could get better if she only
wanted to," someone recognizes the need for intervention to help alleviate
the pain.
I'm not even a believer in meds, though sometimes, they are necessary and
literally save lives. Therapy, counseling, whatever type of help seems
appropriate for that particular person, should be offered so the suffering
need not go on unrelieved and "unlistened to." Guess, I should respond more
carefully next time; I've been there, so am hardly insensitive to depression
and loss.
Barbara Latterner
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:41:25 EDT
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From: "Kathleen M. O'Hara" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: personal
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I would like Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, CT, USA to send an e-mail to me personally at
[log in to unmask] to discuss her recent posting about grapefruit seed extract
and systemic yeast. I need your phone number,Jennifer, and you are not in the
ILCA directory. Thanks, k
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:43:55 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Austin Lactation Associates
Subject: depression
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I heard Niles Newton, shortly before her death, lecture on the fact that
chronic stress changes brain chemistry. Sort of adrenal over-load. Many of
us lead lives full of considerable stress, and perhaps some brains can
handle this better in the same way some immune systems are more able to lift
higher body burdens.
I think an un-mentioned thread in the discussion is the impact of untreated
alcoholism in families. Adult children of alcoholics tend to be
perfectionistic, hard on themselves in terms of performance, to be
controlling as a way of protecting themselves and people they love from
harm, and to have intimacy and trust issues. They also tend to be attracted
to and marry partners with addictive disorders that range from chemical
additions to workaholism. There is nothing like pregnancy and childbirth to
tip the scale towards unendurable chaos, and to make it clear that the
alcoholic partner will not be there for them at this time in their lives.
Like the situations Kathy Dettwyler is referring to, these crises can be
terribly and justifyably depressing. I've seen so many grieving women of
this description. Many have never acknowledged these issues in their lives,
and are trying so hard to look good on the outside. As painful as these
issues can be, not looking at them (with help) is so much worse than dealing
with them. Sometimes, the person will need to have medication to help make
the pain manageable, but certainly therapy or 12 Step work will help with
healing because they ease the sense of isolation and shame that come with
dealing with alcoholism and with being mentally ill because of it. Most of
us can recall times in our lives when we have been mentally or spiritually
ill, and we can share our experience and the hope that 'this too shall
pass'. Just as physicians and social workers etc, should ask about physical
abuse, more people should be willing to ask the question: are you affected
by the untreated alcoholism of someone in your family? I ask that routinely
when I see depressed mothers. Now obviously, I've built up some sort of
rapport before I "go there" and I can't think of a situation where gentle
counseling skills are more impt. than when dealing with a depressed mother.
But if no one ever lets women know where support can be found, all they ever
get is a
chemical solution. Which is better than nothing, but is by no means all
there is in the way of help.
I have family members who have needed medications and
counseling AND 12 step work, so I say: bring on all the help there is.
People CAN change, and life is good.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.lactnews.com
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:49:39 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: How long before coping?
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Kathy, you wrote,
<< It took me at least 8 months to stop grieving about having a child with
Down Syndrome -- every day for those first eight months I would wake up,
remember, and cry. Then I would go take care of my adorable little baby boy.
>>
I think, when people talk about "2 weeks before treatment," they are talking
more about the person who wakes up, cries -- and CANNOT get out of bed and
take care of her baby. When my grandmother, for example, lost her father,
she "took to her bed" for a YEAR -- her husband hired 24-hour-a-day childcare
for her two children under age 3. That's not sad -- that's disabled.
What you are describing is horrible sadness, but it doesn't sound like the
kind of inability to engage the world that is characteristic of depression
that IMO needs treatment -- or at least in which case treatment can greatly
reduce the collateral damage to the depressed person and her whole family.
Nor is offering drug treatment a form of blame for feeling sadness, anymore
than talk-therapy and hand holding are blame. Hopefully treatment comes from
compassion. The question is whether it helps or is a waste of time, money,
and energy (the last of which is especially low in depressed people).
People don't have firewalls between their psyches and their lives, and many
very real depressions are precipitated by a life event. SSRIs are no magic
bullet, and lots of people who can be helped by them need other help as well
-- and we all know that not all of them get it. But that doesn't mean that
these drugs can't be a very valuable PART of helping them.
Or to put it another way, a person with the very real sadness-causing
situation of life-threatening cancer definitely does not need a
life-threatening depression on top of it. So if we have a treatment that
will leave her with only one of those, it seems worth using.
Elisheva
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:32:27 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: treating reactive depression
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Thanks to the many who wrote for the private notes, and for more insight
into this issue. I was under the impression that SSRIs only worked if you
felt bad because of screwed-up brain chemistry, not if you felt bad because
something awful was going on in your life.
I have had a number of notes from people who have had personal experience,
and about one-third say that SSRIs help even when the triggering event is a
life crisis, and about one-third say that SSRIs don't help at all under
those circumstances, and the final third says that SSRIs can help people a
little bit under those circumstances, but that little bit may be all they
need, or that little bit may allow them to function enough to where they can
at least get out of bed in the morning, or that little bit may allow them to
function enough to get to therapy, etc.
And as I said in my original post with respect to my grad student with
breast cancer, if it helped her to take the drugs, GREAT, but that what I
didn't like was her oncologist's attitude that she was crying FOR NO REASON.
As though she wasn't entitled to feel bad about having cancer or going
through treatment, as though only someone who was mentally ill would feel
bad about what was happening to her. I thought that was ridiculous.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:33:59 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reactive depression
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I'm with Kathy on this one. I delivered my twins at term. No complications
in the pregnancy whatsoever. I loved my babies from the first moment I heard
about them and fantasized for 9 months what life would be like with them.
With a breech and transverse lie, a vaginal delivery was out of the question.
When my daughter broke the amniotic sac, I went into labor immediately, and
was 4cm by the time I arrived at the hospital. Fetal monitor showed 2
healthy heartbeats as they rushed to get me ready for my c-section. Kate was
out before I knew it and crying lustily. All I heard the doctor say about
Jason was "This was has meconium". I wasn't a labor and delivery nurse at
the time, but I did know this wasn't a good thing. I kept asking "Is he
crying?" The anesthesiologist kept saying "No, not yet." Finally someone
told me that he was on a ventilator and I wouldn't hear him cry. It seemed
like forever, but the pediatrician came over and told me my son had died. I
couldn't believe it. I kept saying to take him to Children's Hospital and
that I had eaten yogurt and other healthy foods. My shock and depression
lasted for months. I lost weight rapidly and had no appetite. I couldn't
sleep when my daughter slept, so fearful I might lose her too. I had birth
and death in one fell swoop. I felt schizophrenic. Racked with depression
and guilt, the autopsy revealed nothing to make me feel any better. Doctors
felt he died from overcrowding and most probably compressed his own cord.
I nursed my daughter until she self-weaned at a year of age and was told
(this was 21 years ago) that I could not take antidepressants and breastfeed.
I remember thinking if I put Kate in the freezer while she slept, then I
could defrost her later and have another baby to are for. Of course I never
acted on these thoughts and she is alive and well today, but the thoughts
were there and very real, none the less. My grief has lasted a lifetime.
Not a year goes by that I don't remember every moment of that fateful day.
If one more person says "Be thankful. At least God left you with one baby" I
think I will hit them. Reactive depression, postpartum depression, must be
respected. It is a terrible thing to go thru. The lonliness and despair and
isolation are monumental. I am sorry for the long post, but having made it
thru this time in slow motion, one painstaking moment after another, I feel
the importance of conveying how much support a nurse friend was to me. She
alone kept me breastfeeding. I was a single mother at the time. My own
mother asked me "Why are you crying?" when she called one week after their
birth. Her comment was "You have a baby to take care of. Now you must snap
out of it." SIGH. Well, I hope this helps someone out there. I am no
longer paralized by the loss. My life has moved on. My daughter is in
college and I'm married to a wonderful man who adopted her. I will never
forget my experience though. I never knew such depression could exist.
Loni Denman, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:37:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: citrol, oil paints, turpintine, etc.
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Contact me privately to discuss the cirumstances of the moms' exposures to
these chems. Best advise in general is to make sure that the area is very
well ventilated so volatile solvent exposure will be kept to a minimum.
Use a fume hood, if available; cover solvent containers, keep solvent
soaked rags and paint brushes stored safely, and use common sense. But,
in general, yes, there will be some absorption of volatile lipophilic (fat
soluble) chemicals to the blood, and then likely some amount to the milk
from maternal fat stores. Overall, breast is still best, but keep those
exposures to a minimum. judy
** Judith S. Schreiber, Ph.D.
** Chief, Special Investigations Section
** Bureau of Toxic Substance Assessment
**NYSDOH, Flanigan Square, Room 300
** 547 River Street, Troy NY 12180-2216
**(518) 402-7810 ph/7819 fax
** [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:51:00 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Holly McSpadden <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Circumcision Policies
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Our hospital is in the process of revising the circumcision policy for =
newborns. If any of you hospital-based LC's have copies of a policy you =
would like to share, could you e-mail me or fax it to (912)350-3469.
Thank you,
Holly ScSpadden IBCLC
Savannah, Georgia
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:04:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: citrol, oil paints, turpintine, etc.
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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At 11:37 AM 5/30/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Contact me privately to discuss the cirumstances of the moms' exposures to
>these chems. Best advise in general is to make sure that the area is very
>well ventilated so volatile solvent exposure will be kept to a minimum.
>Use a fume hood, if available; cover solvent containers, keep solvent
>soaked rags and paint brushes stored safely, and use common sense. But,
>in general, yes, there will be some absorption of volatile lipophilic (fat
>soluble) chemicals to the blood, and then likely some amount to the milk
>from maternal fat stores. Overall, breast is still best, but keep those
>exposures to a minimum. judy
Thank you for your reply. I have forwarded your post to the LC working
with the mother. She can write and let you know the details.
Pat Gima
Mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:53:58 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Depression--also long
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Nancy writes:
>I've become convinced that we see so much depression of all kinds because we
>now have three generations of adults whose brains developed without the
>proper nourishment (breastmilk) as well as decades of parenting styles that
>promotes distance between mothers and babies, rather than attachment. Add to
>that any other insult such as substances used in adolescence or abuse or
>whatever and we have a society of sub-optimal brains, souls, and psyches.
I,too, have been pondering the dramatically-increased incidence of
depression and anxiety, both in post-partum women, women in general, and in
teens. I know that depression has been around a long time and that it was
hidden in the past because of shame. But in many countries today it is at
near epidemic proportions. In my daughters' high school, about half of the
students were on anti-depressant medications.
I often read of the life-long effects of early nutrition (both known and
unknown components), and the long-term effects of early emotional nurturing
has been documented for decades. I agree with Nancy that inadequate human
milk substitutes and a deep sense of isolation fostered by our "modern"
methods of infant/child care are major contributing factors. Such does
affect the body chemistry.
Last week I read of a study of 97 baby Rhesus monkeys in which, from birth
to 6 months, one group stayed with their mothers and were reared normally,
while the other group grew up with same-age animals, but no adult contact
[and most likely milk from another species]. After 6 months, the monkeys
were removed from their respective social groups and isolated from social
contact 4 days a week for 4 weeks. The researchers report that in response
to these stressful separations, the animals that grew up without adult
contact showed higher cortisol levels (a stress hormone) in their blood
than those who grew up with their mothers.
The researchers suggest that among these monkeys, for whom social
relationships during infancy and childhood are very important, being
removed from adult contact led them to develop chronic anxiety. This showed
up in their behavior, which included clinging to each other, low levels of
play, and self-directed (as opposed to social) behaviors.
As adult monkeys the researchers offered both groups opportunities to drink
alcohol. "One of the most important findings of this study is that infant
monkeys that respond to a stressful situation with high plasma cortisol
levels, drink excessive amounts of alcohol as adults."
[One of the most important findings of this study is that infant monkeys
who were separated from their mothers and their mothers' milk from birth to
6 months experienced high levels of anxiety and had altered chemical
responses to stress. PG]
There are a number of issues from this article that we could address--such
as seeing it as "adult contact" instead of "maternal contact." To the
researchers these monkeys were with an adult, not specifically a mother.
And there was no mention of how or what the infant monkeys were fed.
But the point that I want to bring out here is that the resultant effect
was anxiety and elevated plasma levels of cortisol as a life-long response
to stress. The isolation-oriented parenting that is encouraged in modern,
technological societies is not preparing our children to face life's
challenges with healthy physical, mental, or emotional reactions.
We "smart" humans believed that it doesn't matter how an infant is fed, and
that human mothers would over-ride the built-in nurturing that accompanies
a baby at the breast. We could free mothers to do and go whatever/wherever
they wished while their babies' stomach's were adequately filled with
something "white (sort of)." There were many mothers who adopted babies
and who nurtured them to full health, so it doesn't really matter. But, at
that earlier time, those adoptive mothers had likely been nurtured
themselves by mothers who had been nurtured...
The more generations away from nurturing the "human way" we get, the
greater the loss of cellular memory of how to "human." And since busy
mothers weren't writing books about what they were and were not doing, and
the profound experiences they were having in their mothering, and how
fulfilling that role was for them, we came to believe that nothing
important was going on in the day to day life experience of bringing up a
child to healthy adulthood. The only books being written were by people who
wanted to separate mother and baby as much as possible. (ex: Emmett Holt)
Seeing only the burdens of motherhood, this detachment was offered as a
"gift" to tired, busy mothers. But what a price we all have paid!
A new mother today is suffering from (possibly) poor infant nutrition, loss
of attachment at her mother's breast, loss of those precious night-time
snuggles, an inexplicable sense of isolation and lack of connection, and a
societal denial of the value of her role of mother. She is encouraged to,
as soon as possible, feel, act (and look) as if she doesn't have a baby.
Any unresolved issues in her life come crashing to the fore with the birth
of her baby. As she holds her infant, all of her unmet needs begin crying
for fulfillment. Here is one who is asking so much from her, and she needs
mothering as much as this little one does. She may have been holding
herself together for years in a "mature" adjustment to her losses, but her
baby is a reminder, and it all comes pouring out. All of the issues that
she had been pushing away, come tumbling out. [And in compassion for her
parents, they were suffering some of these same losses.]
And in the US, she is most likely living among strangers--house or
apartment--with only a partner, from whom she needs more than he can give.
Seeing his baby brings out his unmet needs too. His wife had been filling
some of his losses, as he had hers, but now everything has come crashing
down on both of them. They both need someone to hold them, rock them, and
say, "There, There."
This crisis time is an opportunity to truly heal some of the effects of
early loss, and the new baby does need to be nurtured in the meantime.
This mother doesn't need another loss--the loss of what a satisfying
breastfeeding experience can bring. And given the crisis she is in, she
will probably need some chemical correction to her early emotional/chemical
patterns. But she also needs much more than an anti-depressant. As others
have noted, she needs therapy in a most caring environment and/or a support
group such as Corrine found. This crisis is not just about the birth of a
baby and the hormones that fluctuate. If she gets the help she needs,
fully, she will come out of this with some genuine healing.
I think that this is what the Lactnetters are saying when they say just
tossing a drug her way is not really responding to the needs of the mother
with PPD. And it was not really responding to her needs if she was given
just an anti-depressant before she became pregnant. The fact that we have
anti-depressants that are compatible with breastfeeding is important in
stopping the cycle of detachment and isolation of both mother and baby. Of
course, we must also rid our cultures of other destructive practices that
rob little humans of the nurturing that will bring them to full maturity
and that force mothers to deny their normal human desires.
Corrine's story, for which we are all appreciative, shows what full
treatment can do--meds, support group, relationship with a caring doula.
The medications can " give my brain time to heal, so that my body could
heal, and I could then begin to deal with the normal adjustments to
motherhood." But more was needed and, fortunately Corrine found what was
needed.
In Diane D.'s post her client had PPD with her first baby, losing her
breastfeeding experience, feeling better with the meds...but didn't have
her depression addressed. So here she is suffering again. Hopefully with
Diane's help, she will go beyond just the meds this time.
With so many women reacting to life's crises with debilitating depression,
we have an important role. We don't have to be psychiatrists, but we can
listen and can help with referrals to those who will truly help her. We
have a PPD support group here in Milwaukee that has been of tremendous help
to mothers. They share their stories--the horrible ones too--and they are
heard--and healed.
Any time that we help a mother to breastfeed her baby and to celebrate her
most important job of mothering and to ignore the prevalent advice to
involve herself in her baby as little as she can get by with, we help in
the healing of this terrible "experiment" with humankind. Maybe we can
begin to reverse the devastating patterns.
Thank you, all, for your personal sharing on this crucial subject and for
those who have offered us further enlightenment.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:15:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FTT
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I have take the mom off of cow's milk although
>being a vegetarian, she isn't thrilled with the idea. The mother will
>not go for an SNS.
Thanks for the details of the case. There is a connection with food
sensitivities and failure to gain weight. I learned this from Lactnet a
couple of years ago when I was working with a baby who was FTT. When mom
removed ALL dairy food from her diet--reading labels carefully--baby began
to gain weight. He had a myriad of tests with all showing normal.
This mom, too, is vegetarian and found it a challenging diet. But she did
use eggs, which baby wasn't sensitive to, and which added cholesterol to
her diet, an important component for "good" fats in breastmilk. She added
some flax seed oil for the essential fatty acids and she made sure to use
olive oil so that her own fat intake was adequate.
Just this month she sent me a picture of her 16 month old boy whom no one
would ever suspect had been FTT. She feels that eliminating milk products
was the most effective part of the treatment.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:56:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Sara D. Furr" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thanks to all - a personal birth/bf story
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At age 42, I just gave birth to beautiful baby #3 on May 15 by cesarean
delivery. (#1, Nat, turned 5 on May 2nd and #2, Abby, turned 3 on April
28th.) Her name is Nora and she is a dream. Breastfeeding is going very
well, she has an incredible mellow personality and she is a great
snugglebug!
I am posting to thank everyone for all that I have learned from Lactnet
posts since I began subscribing in November, 1999. The wealth of
information here was invaluable in terms of helping me to write a
comprehensive birth plan. I've had 2 previous c-sections, so I had some
idea what to expect, but the information posted here helped to empower me by
reminding me that I could still direct my medical care.
For example, I wrote out all of my requests, made multiple copies and sent a
copy in with my preadmission paperwork to the hospital, gave a copy to my
pediatrician and discussed it with her in detail (she signed off on all of
my requests) and also my OB (she also agreed to my requests and was a
powerful advocate for me). My requests were simple, but not routine for the
hospital where I delivered e.g., NO separation of mother and baby, no
"routine" testing for hypoglycemia (this was very useful since my baby was 8
1/2 lbs at 38 weeks, just meeting the criteria to be tested!), no bath until
breastfeeding was established (this met with more than a little resistance
as Nora was covered with thick vernix, but I persevered!), no lab tests
without my permission, etc. All of my requests were honored.
And yet, a circumstance arose which managed to interfere with our early
attempts at breastfeeding. I am writing this in the hope that this can be
avoided by someone else. At the point just prior to being stitched up, when
my uterus was being "put back," I became very nauseous. The
anesthesiologist gave me some IV Droperidol, without taking any time to see
if the nausea would pass, or to explain side effects of this drug. Well, it
cured the nausea, but it also nearly knocked me out!
All of my birth-planning had been focused on avoiding interventions directed
toward Nora but I had failed to consider the effect of drugs (other than
those normally associated with anesthesia) on ME. The tranquilizing effect
of this drug lasted for 4 hours, but we did have a few, brief attempts at
breastfeeding during that time. I was led to believe (by nursibg staff)
that I was experiencing a "side effect" of Droperidol. When I got home and
looked this up in my copy of Hale's, I of course discovered that the primary
use of this drug is as a (powerful)tranquilizer, though it is also an
antiemetic. Thankfully, with the help of my husband and two wonderful
doulas, I was not separated from Nora during my "tranquil time" and
breastfeeding went well once I was alert.
I was simply amazed that this particular drug was chosen. On the bright
side, my OB prescribed IV Metoclopramide as the post-surgical GI stimulant!
Thankfully, all is well now and I know of at least two doulas who will
caution moms to ask about possible antiemetics used by their
anesthesiologist!
Again, thanks for all I have learned from you all so far and all I will
learn in the future as I continue to read your posts!
Sara Dodder Furr, MA, LLLL
Lincoln, Nebraska
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:13:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: ifab <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ABM to BM?
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I have a mom whose baby has a "heart defect" and mom was told to add 1
tsp of ABM to 4oz of BM. I don't get it. I assume they are trying to
increase caloric intake so baby can undergo surgery , I know this isn't
the best way but what I'm really curious about is aren't they throwing
off osmolality as well and putting kidneys and such at risk or isn't the
1 tsp a big deal ( of course it's a big deal but I mean in this respect)?
Geez, talk about a run on sentence.
Ilene Fabisch, IBCLC, LLLL
WIC Bfing Coordinator
Brockton, MA
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:17:24 EDT
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From: "Vicky M. York, Ibclc, Cpd" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 29 May 2000 to 30 May 2000 - Special issue
(#2000-668)
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In my doula work I have worked with a number of postpartum depressed moms. I
started getting to the point that I could hear it in their voices when they
called me even though they were saying they just needed practical or
lactation help. One woman was a psychotherapist and consultant who thought
she could talk herself out of it but was frightened to discover she couldn't
see her ppd well from the inside out. I worked with her for months, giving
her support with the baby, house, breastfeeding and reassuring her that she
was a wonderful mother and it would pass. I often felt helpless in the face
of this calamity in her life as I usually do with depressed moms. I can only
tell them what I know and help as much as possible. Her husband didn't know
for sure what to say or do and she found there was next to nothing in
literature about it. Gradually, and, in her case, without drugs, she
recovered. After this she began specializing in ppd and childbirth issues in
her practice and researched ppd thoroughly. She started a ppd support group
because no one understands like those who have been through it. Now she is
the expert in her field in this town, speaking to doctors, naturopath,
lactation consultant associations, etc. I refer my ppd clients to her for
therapy in addition to arranging practical help, overnight help so they can
get some sleep, lots of info and handouts, and encourage them to talk to
their friends about. They also very much need to get out into the sunlight
and walk, even if they can only tolerate 10 steps and back to bed. These moms
often need to get away for a while, especially if they have twins.
I tell each husband he doesn't have to know anything or solve anything, just
tell her that she is strong and that he loves her and will help her in any
way she needs. And then give him tips on how to be a gatekeeper for her.
Authorities don't seem to know the cause or very little else about ppd so
good woman to woman help is the best medicine so far. This therapist tells me
that drugs help with the hard symptoms but only time heals the depression.
Most of my clients seem to be over most of it within about 6 months with
occasional "blue" days. I am not talking about psychosis here.
I'm usually with a client about 4 hours at a stretch and if she has ppd she
usually breaks into tears a couple of times and needs several hugs and tons
of reassurance. She needs to know she can take almost any medicine and still
breastfeed and she will recover. Lactation consultants can help shield her
from unnecessary interventions from HCP's and sometimes relatives who
recommend switching to formula to give the mom a "break" at a time when
breastfeeding is the one thing she can do to feel she is being there for her
baby. Women with ppd need compassionate and knowledgeable doulas for sure.
Call the National Association of Postpartum Care Services @ 1-800-45-DOULA
for a pp doula in your state.
Vicky York, CPD, IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:25:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: newborns and teeth
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In a message dated 5/30/00 10:36:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< It has given the baby a worn, almost ulcerated spot on the underside of
her tongue. >>
This is just a possibility, but light emery board filing so it's not so
sharp, or a teeny bit of that wax they use when people have braces?
Judy LeVan Fram, Brooklyn, NY
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:57:13 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ABM to BM?
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Irene,
All I can say is that this is common practice in the pediatric ICU/CCU where I
used to work. I also see our neonatologists use this. I think it is a situation
where you are darned if you do and darned if you don't because a cardiac baby's
energy needs are high but his ability to handle fluids is low.
IMHO, this is not a place where the standard rules can be insisted upon. If 22
or 24 cal. breastmilk will get these kids to the OR faster because it helps them
grow...that is what is needed. Honestly, I've given up to 32 cal. breastmilk in
cases where babies were seriously fluid restricted.
Susan
ifab <[log in to unmask]> on 05/30/2000 02:13:00 PM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: ABM to BM?
I have a mom whose baby has a "heart defect" and mom was told to add 1
tsp of ABM to 4oz of BM. I don't get it. I assume they are trying to
increase caloric intake so baby can undergo surgery , I know this isn't
the best way but what I'm really curious about is aren't they throwing
off osmolality as well and putting kidneys and such at risk or isn't the
1 tsp a big deal ( of course it's a big deal but I mean in this respect)?
Geez, talk about a run on sentence.
Ilene Fabisch, IBCLC, LLLL
WIC Bfing Coordinator
Brockton, MA
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:07:51 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Pia Ruohotie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Introduction and a question (long)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hello!
I am Pia Ruohotie, mother of two daughters, RN and a mother-to-mother
bf support group leader from Finland (Europe). I=B4m working in a
volunteer association of mothers who are building a bf support and
knoledge sharing network in our country. My interence on bf began with my
eldest daughter and bf problems. Luckily I found a support group and
found my true motherhood. I was going to stay at mother-to-mother
advicing, but with my younger daughter I learned how little help
is given when a mother want=B4s to bf her sick or LBW baby at NICU.
Emma (my younger daughter) and I succeeded fighting through
difficulties and demands from her various diseases (she was SGA
weighting only 1380 g and has a congenital diabetes (on pumptherapy)
and several other diagnoses including pancreas insuffisiency and
multiple allergies). She=B4s still breastfeeding at 1,5 years old and
our next goal for bf is 2 years. I=B4m on quite restricted diet because
of her allergies.) So I=B4m at home with my children and doing this
volunteer mother-to-mother support work and planning to start studying
for IBCLC examination to become one of the first LC=B4s in our country.
We haven=B4t had any so far but I have had a priviledge of learning
in action (not only by reading) from the best Finnish bf educator
who works with us in our association and in one of our support
groups.
Here=B4s my question:
I have been working a couple of weeks with a mother of three
children. She breastfed her first baby partially 3 months,
second 6 months exclusively with no difficulties. Between second
and a third baby she had a breast reduction operation. This third
nursing experience has been very hard. All her children are still
very young.
Nursing was very painful at first and both nipples got cracked. The
other breast healed in time and the pain during feedings eased but the
other one didn=B4t. She had one mastitis and got antibiotics for
a treatment. During the treatment the wound got worse. Nursing was so
painful that she couldn=B4t bf from that breast but expressed. This
rest didn=B4t cure the wound. She told that her nipples are different
after the operation, the areola and a nipple has been moved during
the operation.
The other problem is that baby lost weight during two first weeks
on exclusive bf and supplementation was started. The weight gain
didn=B4t improve much and her health visitor and GP suggested more
supplements. It seems that this mother=B4s milk supply might have been
affected because of the reduction. After more supplementation (after
every feed) the growth improved at fourth week and baby reached his
brth weight.
At third week she seeked for bf help through internet from Finnis bf
support mailing list which I follow regularly. I gave her treatment
suggestions wich she followed. I recommended her to seek a bf support
group for herself. I also encouradged her supplement baby enough for
now, she can try weaning from the formula later when the breast
situation is better. She came "my" support group meeting at forth
week where we discussed and she show me her breasts. I noticed the
scars and she confirmed that an operation has been done. Almost the
whole nipple was a wound and looked like infected and excreted puss.
I suggested that a sample from the wound would be appropriate and it
turned out that my quess was right. There was pathogen bacterial growth
in the wound. She got different antiobiotics and the wound started to
heal. She shower her breast 2-4 times a day and use cabbage
leaves/naclbandage between nursings.
We fixed another meeting with the mother and she came to my home
a week later. I don=B4t think that baby=B4s suckling technique is
the cause for this persistent wound. The baby was at breast correctly
and sucked my finger properly. The other breast has alredy been
healed and the wound side looked better and smaller. We planned
that she would try to cut down the formula if baby=B4s weight was
rising normally next checking.
She wrote me email and we talked on the phone a couple days later:
there has been dull pain deeper in this sick breast all the time.
The pain has got worse in these last days and the wound hasn=B4t got
better any more. It has started bleeding during feedings ( the baby
has vomited blood with milk). The antibiotic treatment is finished
now (it was 10 day treatment). It seems to me that there might be
more things to worry with this breast. I called the bf educator
and she agrees with me. We are afraid that there might be infection
inside the breast that keep the wound open. There might be some
scarring after the operation that worse the situation.
Is it safe to bf from this breast or would it be better to stop
eventually bf from this breast? There might even be an abscess.
The mother will contact her surgeon to ask his/her opinion.
Has anybody here had similar situation to assist? (breast operation
and persistent infection/wound) Do you have any suggestions?
(I searched the archives, but didn=B4t find anything useful
yet.)
Thankfully
Pia Ruohotie, RN, mother-to-mother support group leader, mother of
two daughters from Helsinki, Finland (Europe)
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:41:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Shannon Victor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: POSTPARTUM MOM
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Just a quick thought on the mom who has been PPD'd for the last 7 months. I
agree that there is probably another issue here since any of the common meds
for this problem are not working. Has anyone thought of or has she been
tested for thyroid problems? PPD often times mirrors the symptoms of thyroid
disfunction, and it is possible that this could be her problem, it can get
very severe. I'd be interested in knowing what her TSH level is. Just a
thought. I see many mom's who once they have their level checked, find out
that it is a hormonal imbalance.
Sincerely,
Shannon Victor, BS, CLE, WIC, LLL
(mother of three sons- 3 1/2, 2, 4mos.- the last two currently nursing!)
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:43:18 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Carol Brussel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 29 May 2000 - Special issue (#2000-665)
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<< They are imitating it and using it for medicines for people who are
immune-compromised(infants and persons who are diagnosed hiv-positive). They
are using it for diarrhea medicines and for STD(particularly chlamydia). >>
perhaps you could post some references for these uses? it would be
fascinating to read more about these specific applications.
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:45:19 EDT
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<[log in to unmask]>
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Today I had a client who is married to a homeopathic physician state that she
is using "Callandullah" (not sure about the spelling) on her nipples for
soreness. She said her husband said it would not harm the baby.
I have looked in the archives but did not see this mentioned, especially
applied to the nipple. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks for
any info.
Linda Goldberg, RN, CCE.
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:49:24 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Gomco pump
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I was appalled to see in a recent flyer from ICEA that they are
selling/promoting this pump. In my experience with one of these over 20 years
ago, they are constant suction machines which need user controlled "relief."
I'm sure we have all seen at least a picture or slide of a terribly damaged
nipple in a mom who used a pump with no suction control. Because if a little
is good, then isn't a lot better? I'd like to respond to ICEA; anyone else
get this little pink flyer on breastfeeding materials?
Mary Kay Smith, IBCLC
Romeoville IL USA near Chicago
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:32:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Elsa Keeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Provider in AZ
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I am looking for a Ped/FP/PNP in the Mesa/Pheonix area for a family with an 8
month old. Current Pediatrician is very worried about growth and undermining
what parents think is best...(give formula at 3 a.m., he won't know the
difference, what does your milk look like, maybe it's not good enough) He was
exclusively BF until 6 months, solids have been introduced, he is happy,
thriving developmentally, and although petite, is proportional wt for ht. Dad
is quite small, as were his parents and sibs (5' 4'' to 5' 7''). I suggested
they find a more BF friendly provider. I've seen the baby on visits to MN and
he is OK! Please email me privately with names. Thanks. My home email is
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:19:04 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: THANKS for the stories
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Dear Friends:
I appreciate the stories about loss and sadness and those experiences
that rock our worlds, and thank each sender for sharing some of her life.
Sharing the anguish teaches and heals. It feels good to be part of this
community.
Thank you.
Nikki Lee RN, MSN, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CIMI, CSTP
Elkins Park (a suburb of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; northeastern USA)
supporter of the WHO Code and the Mother Friendly Childbirth Initiative
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:21:14 EDT
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Dear Friends:
Could one of the many many reason for PPD be a traumatic birth and/or
separation from baby?
I think it was Kathy D who brought up the interesting thought that some
sadness/depression might come from a mother whose body thinks her baby died,
because she did not breastfeed.
Warmly,
Nikki Lee RN, MSN, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CIMI, CSTP
Elkins Park (a suburb of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; northeastern USA)
supporter of the WHO Code and the Mother Friendly Childbirth Initiative
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:23:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Predeciduous dentition
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In a message dated 5/30/00 10:36:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< So here is my list of questions: It doesn't seem to affect breastfeeding
but mom
worries that Baby Anna's tongue is sore and in turn so her nipples will be
due to
baby's changing use of abraded tongue. Or will the baby learn to cope with
the
tooth? Will the tooth need to be removed (suggested by a HCP)? Are the
teeth
babies are born with extra or is it simply an early eruption of the normal
deciduous teeth? How much time is too much to obsess about the pearly, white
>>
Dear Kerri,
I have seen dozens of babies with teeth at birth....usually in the lower
incisor area. If not removed they often "tighten up" as this baby you have
seen has done. I will include here the excerpt from my 1977 "Synopsis of
Oral Pathology" by Dr. S. N. Bhaskar :
"Predeciduous dentition. Predeciduous dentition is an extremeley rare
condition that implies the presence of teeth preceding the deciduous
dentition. Such teeth are generally present at birth or may erupt soon after
birth ( natal and neonatal teeth, respectively ). These are usually aborted
structures and consist only of caps of enamel and dentin. If loose, they may
be accidentally aspirated and therefore should be removed. Occasionally a
normal member of the deciduous dentition will erupt prematurely. This should
be distinguished from a predecidous tooth and not be extracted."
When I worked in pedodontics, we usually took a lower anterior xray (fast
speed film/minimal exposure) to see if there was a root and to ascertain if
it was a supernumerary. It can be wiggled out with topical anesthesia and a
prick of xylocaine if necessary. The oral cavitiy heals rapidly so if this
baby's tongue is affected it should heal up ok. A pediatric dentist is your
best choice. They get in and out quickly and are not intimidated by such
things! Good luck.
Jan Ellen Brown RDH IBCLC
Charlotte, NC USA
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:20:56 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Carol L'Esperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: WIC-History
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Hi! This is not meant to begin discussion of WIC again, but is merely =
meant to be a follow-up to this discussion and questions that I had.
Research in the 1960's and 1970's suggested that many women, infants and =
young children were lacking in nutrients in their diet and there was a =
growing awareness of the link between nutrition and mental and physical =
development. At that time the bf rates were at an all time low--about =
18%(no wonder the mental and physical development was effected!). Since =
most children were formula fed there were problems with babies being fed =
all sorts of things if they couldn't afford formula. In 1972 a pilot =
project was initiatated by the US Congress to provide supplemental foods =
to low-income pregnant and lactating women and children up to age =
4(later changed to 5). This program was tied to medical evaluation and =
health care services. The program became permanent in 1974 when Congress =
passed Public Law 94-105 authorizing the WIC program administered =
through the Food and Nutrition Service of the US Dept of Agriculture. =
FNS provides grants to state designated agencies to provide local =
services.WIC is probably a model of how a federal program can succeed in =
servicing many people at a low cost. Each month the program servies =
about seven million mothers and children at about $1.50 per day. (As I =
have said before, the professionals I have worked with in WIC are the =
most dedicated hard working federal employees I have ever met! )
More than 70 evaluation studies have been conducted throughout WIC's =
history. Findings from these studies reveal that participation in WIC =
improves pregnancy outcomes and contributes to reductions in infant =
mortality. In 1986 the US Dept of Agriculture relaeased findings from a =
mult-year study that revealed: 1. a 23% decrease in premature births in =
WIC mothers; 2. an increase in the number of pregnant women receiving =
adequate prenatal care; 3. better cognitive performance among preschool =
age, former WIC children; and 4. higher immunization rates among WIC =
children. The cornerstone of WIC's success is its prescriptive =
nutritions standards which promote proper nutrition and healthy =
development while facilitating the reduction of costly, long term health =
probllems for both mothers and developing children. The program serves =
as a "gateway" for access to other health care services.
Comments: I don't see anything that specifically states how formula =
"saves" money nor how it has improved health or saved the lives of =
children. I think a great part of the saving of lives and health of =
children has come from healthier pregnant women and from the fact that =
WIC has been the gateway for other health care services. I don' t think =
we have any concrete data(as opposed to anecdotal) that says that =
children will die if WIC stops giving formula or at least modifies its =
policy(physician prescribed formula) about formula. I do think there is =
a valid question whether as many women would still access WIC if they =
weren't lured by "free formula". That would, I think be a problem since =
they would not access other health care services.=20
Thanks for all you patience with my many lactnets on this issue, but I =
will state it again, we must open the dialogue to think of how WIC can =
better meet nutritional needs of mothers and children.=20
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:22:00 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Carol L'Esperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dr. Klaus
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Does anyone know how I can contact Dr. Marshall Klaus?
Thanks! Carol L'Esperance, Albuquerque, NM
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:47:01 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Valerie W. McClain, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: commercial uses of breast milk
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carol, I have posted the web site for the patents previously but I will do
so again but here is another web site from John Hopkins that you may view a
shortened version of the anti-diarrheic product and method of treating
rotavirus-associated infection.
http://www.med.jhu.edu/otl/9530.html
To see more information about the patent itself you may go to the US Patent &
Trademark Office http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html There are blue
buttons, click on the one that says number and type either 5,505, 955 or
5,667,797
These are long documents but they are worth reading all the way through
because you may come to the realization that some scientists know alot about
breast milk. At the patent office you can also view the patents for the "new
oils" DHA and AA and read about how they are extracted from crude oil..every
mother ought to read this one.
I can't remember if one or both of the patents previously mentioned were made
with partial funding from the NIH and the US government may have rights to
this invention.
Rather interesting that we "discourage" women from breastfeeding if diagnosed
hiv-positive but are marketing a product that is genetically engineered
breast milk. Oh yeah how could I forget that the real breastmilk transmits
hiv, doesn't it? The government scientists told us so. Valerie W. McClain,
IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:18:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Help promote BF in Infant/Toddler Program
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This request is from a colleague of mine. Can you help her? Please reply
to
the list as well as to her personally. She is not on Lactnet.
[log in to unmask]
"I am in the process of looking for resources to help educate staff as well
as families about promoting & supporting breastfeeding. What information
should home visitors have to share with families about promoting
breastfeeding?
Most of the families we work with are teen parents. Are there resources
that specifically target these young mothers? Any information would be
helpful.
Thank you!
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF OUR PROJECT:
Regular, on-going home visiting is the core of the program and where most of
the support, learning, and skills development take place. The visits are
generally one hour long and focus on the areas of parenting, positive
parent-child interaction, knowledge about normal child development, and
maternal & child health. Parents learn appropriate, positive ways to
interact with their children. The home visits are complimented with weekly
center-based small group sessions. The purpose is to encourage friendships
among the parents and a special emphasis is placed on positive parent-child
interaction.
MISSION:
The Infants & Toddlers Program of the Howard Area Community Center is
dedicated to providing support, education, programming, and
community-building services for low-income and at-risk families in the
Rogers Park area. It is the belief of this program, its staff, and
advisors, that
the beginning years of life, from pregnancy through the preschool years, are
crucial in the development of young minds and hearts. Consequently, the
efforts of this program are focused on supporting families and
communities to nurture and delight in each and every met challenge,
milestone, and accomplishment of our tiniest neighbors."
Patti O'Donnell
Assistant Director, Infants & Toddlers Program
Howard Area Community Center
7648 North Paulina Street
Chicago, IL 60626
phone: 773-761-8324
fax: 773-761-8353
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:52:13 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sharon Trombetta <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Positive Advertising
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I was paging through the May issue of Women's Sports Fitness and came
across a beautiful ad for http:/WomenOutdoors.com. Picture shows a
woman breastfeeding baby (older than an infant, yeah!) with words
cascading down the middle woman, mother, wife, appalachian trail hiker.
If you go to the webpage you can see a small version. They state that
if you purchase any item you get a free T-Shirt of the ad. Has anyone
else seen this ad? What do you think? Positive?
Sharon Trombetta, ICCE, IBCLC
NJ
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:23:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "David W. Vaklyes" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Positive Advertising
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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At 7:52 PM -0400 5/30/00, Sharon Trombetta wrote:
>I was paging through the May issue of Women's Sports Fitness and came
>across a beautiful ad for http:/WomenOutdoors.com. Picture shows a
>woman breastfeeding baby (older than an infant, yeah!) with words
>cascading down the middle woman, mother, wife, appalachian trail hiker.
>If you go to the webpage you can see a small version. They state that
>if you purchase any item you get a free T-Shirt of the ad. Has anyone
>else seen this ad? What do you think? Positive?
VLCA had this ad on postcards as giveaways at their conference in
Burlington, Vermont this year.
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:47:23 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Attie Sandink <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: personal
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Jennifer Tow
can you email me personally about the grapefruit seed extract as well. =
mailto:[log in to unmask] I missed it the first time and had someone =
ask me about it for yeast.
Attie sandink
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:17:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janet Vandenberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Depression
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I too experienced a postpartum reaction after the birth of my first
child which thankfully was only bad for the first 4- 6 weeks. I had a
post partum Anxiety reaction. I had a horrid c/s experience. The only
thing that went well after my c/s was breastfeeding. I literally needed
to pick the baby up and nurse him for the hormone rush to stay calm.
It wasn't until a few years later and reading The Postpartum Survival
Guide that I was really able to understand my response. Even as an L &
D nurse I didn't realize the different ways PPD could manifest. I
believed the misnomer that PPD meant sad and depressed. I didn't feel
"depressed".
Now as Public Health Nurse and LC, I spend time in prenatal class, and
individually with each new mum, going over the signs and symptoms of
PPD. I discuss factors that can make PPD more likely but let them know
that anyone can get it. I discuss the importance of being nurtured in
the pp period, getting lots of help and support, spending time exploring
their feelings if delivery isn't what they expected and keeping
communication going between mum and dad. I also go over where to get
help if they feel overwhelmed.
Janet Vandenberg RN, BScN, IBCLC
Public Health Nurse
Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:40:20 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ABM to BM?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Yes, Ilene, it *is* a big deal and it will change the baby's intestinal
environment. A baby approaching surgery needs optimal health and abm is not
the way to attain it.
If I have a client whose baby needs more calories, I have her pump after a
feeding, put the milk in the refrigerator in a bowl, then skim the fat off
after it has risen to the top. Baby can take the hige-quality fat with a
spoon. Mom can do this as often as needed to increase the calorie intake.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:14:23 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jennifer Tow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: homeopathy
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In a message dated 5/30/0 7:46:03 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<< Today I had a client who is married to a homeopathic physician state that
she
is using "Callandullah" (not sure about the spelling) on her nipples for
soreness. She said her husband said it would not harm the baby.
I have looked in the archives but did not see this mentioned, especially
applied to the nipple. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks for
any info. >>
Linda,
Calendula is commonly used for sore nipples by natural practitioners. I
prefer it to lanolin and suggest it to mothers open to natural care. It is
considered to be completely safe and heals wounds, abrasions, etc very
quickly.
Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, CT, USA
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:29:19 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jennifer Hornsby-Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby w/ heart problem
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I don't know how relevant this would be to a heart condition, but I read in
Kangaroo Care that premies who breastfed were better able to maintain their
body temp and had higher blood oxegen levels than those babies fed otherwise
(presumabley with a bottle or ng tube). In my vast inexperience I'm guessing
that these factors might also come into play for a baby needing less stress
on its heart.
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:56:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Terry Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
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I found this article on the internet, written by an anthropologist.
The Functions of Post Partum Depression
http://www.sscf.ucsb.edu/~hagen/working.html
Sincerely,
Terry
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:37:58 -0500
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From: Susan R Potts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Corrine
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Dear Corrine,
THANK YOU for sharing your story. A relative on my husband's side
of the family had PP psychosis, was hospitalized for about a month, and
has had only the one child who is 12 now.
LCs see many pp moms during outpt. visits who have a touch of PPD,
tears, feelings of being out of control with new infant cares. We need
to know when and how to explore this and suggest referrals, and to be
able to discuss/listen to these moms.
Thanks again.
Susan in Minnesota rn ibclc (decided to drop the Potts!)
________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:11:28 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Carol Brussel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: more wic
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more excellent info about the history of the wic program.
<< I do think there is =
a valid question whether as many women would still access WIC if they =
weren't lured by "free formula". >>
oddly enough, i have convinced a couple of moms to consider applying for wic
(who obviously qualified but were reluctant to apply, partly because they
felt wic pushed formula!) because our local wic dept. has breast pumps to
loan them. i always emphasize that wic does not provide all the formula a
baby needs, and that they get extra food if they don't receive formula. maybe
if we looked at wic as a supporter of breastfeeding and didn't fear sending
moms to them because of the support for formula.
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:28:09 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: women's fitness ad
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I have seen it several times. My oldest and youngest daughters cut it out
(from 2 different magazines) and gave it to me. They thought I would like and
they are right. I'd like to make it into an overhead.
Mary Kay Smith, IBCLC
Romeoville IL
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:06:35 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Insurance company gobbly-goop
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I recieved this letter today- and would love anyones input:
Re: an ill premature infant ( version of Dr. Nieferts letter had been
submitted with weights, condition, gestational age)
Dear Madam:
We are in receipt of you letter dated 5/3/00 regarding reimbursement for the
proposed breast pump.
The medical staff reviewed the documentation submitted. The breast pump is
not a reimbursable item under the plan.
Medical equipment qualifies as durable medical equipment eligible for
reimbursement under the plan if it meets all of the following criteria:
1. It can withstand repeated use.
2. It is not disposable.
3. It is used to serve a medical purpose.
4. It is generally not usefull to a person in the absence of a sickness or
injury.
5. It is appropriate for use in the home.
The breast pump does not qualify as durable medical equipment eligible for
reimbursement as it does not meet criteria #4 in the above definition. The
breast pump can be useful to aperson in absence of sickness or injury.
There is the right to a further appeal of theis determination. To do so,
please submit the following medical information within (60) days of receipt
of this notice.
*Clinical documentation to substatiate the above noted criteriea for duable
medical equipment has been met.
the rest of the letter decribed where to send the information
Thanks
Karen Querna, RN, BSN, IBCLC
Spokane, WA
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:25:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Julie Wood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: positive advertising
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Sharon,
I loved the Women Outdoors ad and found it positive, too. It was in Cooking
Light a couple of months ago.
The picture is great, but I really liked the words describing the mom.
What a refreshing change.
Julie Wood, MD, IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:47:04 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: calendula
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it also has antifunal and antibacterial properties.
Patricia
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:47:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: depression
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An excellent book is - a mother' tears. by arlene huysman... NOT FOR
PARENTS TO BE.
Patricia
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:02:37 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Swisher <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: NY LC
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If there is a LC or LLL Leader in the Albany, NY area, would you please
e-mail me off-list?
Many thanks,
Anna Swisher
LLL Leader
Austin, TX
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:09:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Deborah Myers, RNC, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: going no mail
Hi!
Will be on vacation the next 2 weeks. Would like to go no mail for
that time. Hope everyone is having a great spring/summer so far.
Debbie
NC
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:13:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Sharon Trombetta <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: insurance company gobbly-goop
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Karen,
Must be an uneducated rep at the insurance company. They need to be
educated on breastfeeding and the amount of money being saved by
providing this piece of equipment.
Breastpumps can be used before, during, and after an illness.
Versatility! And saves healthcare dollars.
Sharon Trombetta, ICCE, IBCLC
Mother of 2 Teens and 3 Dachshunds
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:18:41 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: metabolic efficiency during lactation
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From the article on post-partum depression: "Breast feeding is metabolically
expensive, and the energetic costs of lactation are actually greater than
the energetic costs of pregnancy (Worthington-Roberts, Vermeersch &
Williams, 1985)."
Does anyone have other references about the energetic costs of lactation?
Isn't there some research suggesting that lactating mothers are more
metabolically efficient than non-lactating mothers?
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:42:43 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Jane Ciaramella RNC, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WABA action folder
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Does anyone on Lactnet know the site online where the WABA action folder can
be purchased? (The $1 or $2 dollar brochure is the one I'm looking for.) I
couldn't find any ordering information on their website and after e-mailing
them I've yet to get an answer. TIA to anyone who may be able to help.
Jane Ciaramella
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:55:25 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Dressler/DeMarco <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: WTSTB, LLL, VLCA, and HOME
Subject: [Fwd: breastfeeding information for families]
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:53:35 -0400
From: Dressler/DeMarco <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: WTSTB, LLL, VLCA, and HOME
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Subject: breastfeeding information for families
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Hi Patti,
I saw your friend, Joanne McCrory's, post on Lactnet and thought I
would send you some Internet sites that can be of great help to you.
LLLI has wonderful information. The guiding principal in all of their
publications is in, as your program information describes, "supporting
families and communities to nurture and delight in each and every met
challenge, milestone, and accomplishment of our tiniest neighbors."
Look through the 2000 LLLI Catalog. The website is
http://www.lalecheleague.org
The NY State Dept of Health has developed a school curriculum that might
help you in working with teen moms. Their site is
http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/b_feed/index.htm
Others that I'd recommend are the San Diego County Breastfeeding
Coalition. Many good links here
http://www.breastfeeding.org/
a site called Promotion of Mother's Milk, Inc. Also, full of info and
links
http://www.promom.org/
Breastfeeding.com, a lovely, fun, colorful site
http://breastfeeding.com/
and the WABA (World Alliance For Breastfeeding Action) site
http://www.waba.org.br/
Good luck!
Diane Dressler, LLLLeader
Florence, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:11:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Dressler/DeMarco <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: WTSTB, LLL, VLCA, and HOME
Subject: positive advertising
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Sharon,
First of all, I agree that this is a lovely ad!!
An interesting story--a member of our annual lactation conference
planning committee saw this ad in the March issue of Cooking Light and
e-mailed them our praise. Michelle Theall, advertising director,
e-mailed back to tell how hard she had worked to develop this ad but,
not sure of it's positive impact, her company was thinking of pulling
the ad. Well, more e-mails ensued, and it ended up that Michelle had
their art department print up 300 postcards of this photo especially for
our conference (Vermont Lactation Consultant Association) to offer as
"take-ones." The postcards offer $25 off on merchandise--not a bad
offer at all, BTW. When I told this story at the conference, the hall
buzzed with excitement and the postcard was actually the only "take-one"
I didn't have to find a home for at the end of the conference.
Diane Dressler, LLLLeader
Florence, VT
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:14:34 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Kerri,
I have had several experiences in working with babies born with a tooth.
Usually an xray is done to determine if the tooth is an extra one or a
decidious tooth. The moms I worked with had no problem with the tooth
because the baby really knew nothing different and worked well with it.
Vicki Pena in sunny (an understatement) Phx.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:10:19 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan R Potts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Depression/Barbara
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Dear Barbara and all,
Thank you for mentioning the alcoholism/family history connection.
There are more of us in the world affected than anyone could imagine.
When I was about 30 my 24 yo sister said to me, 'You know why mom
and dad and our family is so screwed up, don't you?' And though I had
often wondered and labored about it, I didn't know. I had left and
didn't look back at 16. She simply said, 'The alcoholism'. I
attended counseling with her for a while, and read some great books on
the subject, and at my husband's urging went to more counseling just
before the birth of our third child.........he couldn't understand why I
was a complete *@#(b-word) to live with after my father called me (for
the second time in my life).
I have had to learn simple civilty, manners, politeness, and how to
make small talk as an adult. I feel like I came to the professional
world with a huge deficit, like starting out deeply in debt, with a huge
need to learn simple 'people skills'.
Thanks so much for your encouraging words, Barbara, 'people can
change, and LIFE IS GOOD'.
Sorry this is off-topic..........but I can't be the only one on this
list with this kind of struggle. I am so happy now!!!! I have a great
(2nd) husband!!!! Three normal/wonderful kids!!! I LOVE working in
the field of lactation and helping new moms and families get off to a
good start.........I even think I'm good at it!!! And like Corrine, now
I can say some of the hard knocks have expanded my viewpoints and
tenderized my heart.
Susan in Minnesota rn ibclc
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: debbie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Intro and a question
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Hello to all.
Quick bio on me- My name is Debbie and I work from home as an =
independent LC and Monitrice.
I have a three year old, still nursing and am currently 39 weeks =
pregnant with our second. I have learned so much on this list and =
appreciate the huge wealth of information available here.
Quick question- I have a mum who is pumping three times a day for a 15 =
month old while she is away at work. She uses a Bailey's Nurture III =
and double pumps. During evenings and weekends, baby enjoys =
unrestricted nursing. What she is complaining about is a marked =
difference in pumped amounts between each breast. During each session =
she is noting at least 1.5-2 oz differences between each. She sees =
letdown simultaneously and still feel MER several times while pumping. =
Is this normal or cause for concern?
By the way, her toddler shows no preference between breasts and nurses =
equally on each side.
Thanks in advance,
Debbie
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:59:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jeannie Zinn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insurance Comapny Letter
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They knew exactly what they were doing by putting that #4 in the definition
of durable medical equipment. That eliminates their responsibility to pay
for a number of things. (tens units etc.)
Re submit until they get tired of reviewing it!
Jeannie Zinn, ICCE, CD(DONA), CLC
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:40:36 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sinai Health System
Subject: Breast pumps and insurance companies
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I would reply to this letter with a page from the Medela or Hollister
catalog and price list giving the spec's for the pump. Weight, price,
picture etc. I'm sure they are thinking that you meant a "pump kit" or
hand pump. Use all the big words you can; i.e. bilateral breast pump kit
instead of double pump and include any cost related facts you can find.
ARRGHH.
Mary Kay Smith, IBCLC
Romeoville IL
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:41:36 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sinai Health System
Subject: WABA folder
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I think La Leche League International in Schaumburg has these available.
try the website for the catalog and order dept. www.lalecheleague.org
Mary Kay Smith, IBCLC
Romeoville IL
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:36:33 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Sharon Knorr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Intro and a question
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Dear Debbie,
The Nurture III tends to develop more suction on one side than the other,=
depending on which side you are using your finger on to release pressure.=
I advise moms to switch sides about halfway through so that each breast=
gets the same amount of suction in the end. If this does not seem to be=
the problem, it is not uncommon for one breast to routinely produce more=
than the other. Moms notice this both with pumps and just with baby at=
the breast. Nothing to worry about.
Warmly,
Sharon Knorr, BSMT, ASCP, IBCLC
Newark, NY (near Rochester on Lake Ontario)
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:23:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Energetic costs of lactation
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<< Does anyone have other references about the energetic costs of lactation?
>>
I don't. But I am pretty sure there are some in Sarah Hrdy's book Mother
Nature, since she does comment several times on the higher energy costs of
provisioning young relative to gestating them. (though of course
provisioning includes more than lactation...)
Elisheva
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:23:48 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Insurance co and breast pump
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Karen, I have two suggestions about replying to this letter.
First, instead of replying to the form-letter generating office that sent it,
get on the telephone to the special department that is in charge of
mother-infant health. Almost every insurance co has a program to make sure
mothers get prenatal care etc -- they do this because they know that
investing money in this saves them money in the long term, and so there is
usually some actual human being -- often a CNM or similar -- running it and
empowered to make exceptions to various rules under it. Sticking with
customer service will just get you a runaround.
Second, AND ONLY AFTER THE INSURANCE CO EMPLOYEE YOU ARE TALKING TO IS AN
HCP, do NOT address the criteria in the letter. Obviously it is true, after
all, that a breast pump can be used outside of illness. Instead, speak to
the real point, which is that if they don't authorize the charge the baby
will be sicker -- which of course they don't want! -- and they will have
comcomitantly higher costs from the babies care. So EVEN THOUGH the pump
flunks their test they should decide to WAIVE IT IN because it is both the
baby's and THEIR OWN interest to do so.
Again, if you make this argument to the drone who answers the telephone you
will get nowhere but once you get a doc or a nurse on the line, which you can
do with persistence, they will almost certainly approve it. And by pushing
them to do so you help set a precedent for the next family.
Elisheva Urbas
who has done her share of pushing insurance companies into granting waivers.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:36:14 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: grapefruit seed extract
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Kathleen: I may have missed Jennifer's post, but I know that I mentioned
grapefruit see extract in both my MOTHERING article "Help for breastfeeding
Mothers: Self-help treatments for Thrush" and online. Can I be of
assistance to you in any way? (Jennifer, I don't mean to be stepping on
your toes if she is in fact trying to reach you.)
--Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
1807 NW Beca Ave., Corvallis, Oregon 97330 541-753-7340
mom, wife, educator, lactation consultant, homeschool mom, researcher,
scientist, author, organic gardener, photographer, wilderness adventurer,
lapidary creator, lousy cleaner;)
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:58:19 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Calendula
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Regarding calendula offinialis (pot marigold--not the standard French
marigold or Tagetes patula that most people plant as annuals)...I'm
presuming that you are speaking of calendula oil (which Weilda makes as a
baby oil). This is NOT usually in a homeopathic form (titrated to minute
levels of active ingredients); it is actually in an herbal concentration
(identifiable components of active ingredients are readily found in the
product). Anyway, while I am hesitant to give anything herbal (remember
herbs are foods) directly (orally) to babies under 6 months because of the
potential for allergens (as well as toxins from pesticides, herbicides and
fungicides), it is considered safe for babies. If mom applies the oil to
her nipples to assist in healing, the baby will be ingesting this, so have
the mom watch for signs of allergic reaction. I still only recommend
anhydrous lanolin topically for nipples in moms with sore nipples even
though I have seen calendula speed healing in wounds.
Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
mom, wife, educator, lactation consultant, researcher, scientist, author,
organic gardener, photographer, lapidary creator, lousy cleaner.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:15:29 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: normal differences between breasts
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Debbie: First, congrats and good luck on next delivery. Second, it is
completely normal for one breast to having substantially higher output than
the other; although I might add that a breast pump is not a good way to
measure the true capacity of the breast (see Hartman's work on capacity
measurement). There are many women in other cultures who exclusively bf
from one breast.
One question...why is the mom pumping for a 15 mo old? Unless she is away
overnight or for very extended days, it is unusual to need to pump at this
stage even for moms who are employeed full time outside the home. Many a
mom employed outside has reported that their breasts will adapt to their
work and nursing schedule such that they feel let down only once they drive
up the drive way. Their milk production becomes reduced while at work and
increases dramatically while at home or with baby. It may take some
tapering, but she might try just using unrestricted nursing while with baby
and not pumping if it is making her anxious.
Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
mom, wife, educator, lactation consultant, researcher, scientist, author,
organic gardener, photographer, lapidary creator, lousy cleaner.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:29:58 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 15 min bf presentation
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I need to ask what 3 things all of you would consider to be the most
important things to mention in a brief 15 minute presentation (to our local
county health board) on breastfeeding? I have done many of these for other
groups, but the diversity of knowledge (from zip to relatively bf savvy),
the short time period, and the potential for this group affecting actual
change in the community is making me question my usual approach. Over the
years, in previous brief discussions with this group (I'm co-chair of the
county health board), I've been asked everything from what exactly IS an LC
to why is breast better than formula/bottle? TIA!
-- Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:57:26 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 15 min bf presentation
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In a message dated 05/31/2000 10:33:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<
I need to ask what 3 things all of you would consider to be the most
important things to mention in a brief 15 minute presentation (to our local
county health board) on breastfeeding? I have done many of these for other
groups, but the diversity of knowledge (from zip to relatively bf savvy),
the short time period, and the potential for this group affecting actual
change in the community is making me question my usual approach. Over the
years, in previous brief discussions with this group (I'm co-chair of the
county health board), I've been asked everything from what exactly IS an LC
to why is breast better than formula/bottle? >>
Doing the short and sweet of what you could talk about for days on end is
particularly challenging. With this group I should think that impact on the
health from a community perspective would be the best lead - the costs of NOT
breastfeeding and the impact of that on Public Health care costs, how even
toh breastfeeding is NATURAL, it is not instictive but LEARNED and in the
context of a bottlefeeding culture, women tend to have more problems that
require assistance, support and intervention than they would if they lived
where everybody breastfed and it was enmeshed in the culture. And probably
I'd add something about resources available in your area for those needing to
make referrals when then encounter someone having problems. That kind of
addresses a what, why and how - can't fit in much more in 15 minutes - good
luck - you'll undoubtably dazzle them all!
Gretchen Andrews, BA, IBCLC
private practice, So CAL, USA
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:16:54 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Marcia B McCoy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Insurance company gobbly-goop
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Hi Karen,
>>4. It is generally not usefull to a person in the absence of a
sickness or
injury.
<<
This statement is true about a breastpump if you're talking about the
baby as the patient, isn't it?
- Marcia in Minnesota
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:24:06 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: citrus/grapefruit seed extract
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FYI: Grapefruit Seed extract or citrus seed extract are powerful
antifungal, antibacterial, antiparasitic, and even antiviral
remedies/preventives. They kill on contact, are considered viable
preservatives and excellent to have in an emergency kit (can also be used to
purify water in desparate situations). They have been shown to kill staphy,
strep, salmonella, Amoeba histoytic, cryptosp., viruses (including herpes),
Candida albicans, and a variety of other nasty beasties. It is a yellowish
but relatively non-staining (compared with gentian violet) liquid. (CAUTION
should be used when applying this topically as it can burn the skin (in
otherwords, I don't recommend it undiluted on nipples). It may be diluted
in pure almond or avocado oil or mixed with Lansinoh. If it is diluted this
way, it shouldn't burn baby's mouth, but they may reject the breast because
of the taste; however, some babies actually like the taste. If it is
offensive, wiping the breast with plain almond or avo oil is usually
sufficient. For moms with broken skin, I don't like having them traumatize
the breast this way and usually recommend an alternative therapy.
I have used it successfully to treat systemic yeast infections in moms with
repeated breast yeast and vaginal yeast, with a garden variety of other
systemic yeast symptoms (see William Crook's books or Truss's THE MISSING
DIAGNOSIS). To use systemically one can put 10-15 drops in a small amount
of liquid and swallow quickly (it tastes horrible). For our trial, we are
putting it in capsules to blind the recipients as to which group they are
in. One can purchase the powdered kind in capsules, but it is not as
effective. Capsules should be taken BID or TID and continued for 28 days,
plus adjunct therapy of multistrain Lactobacilli (with at least Bifidophilus
and Acidophilus) combined with FOS.
There are several brands on the market. I've tried: Agrisept by Essentially
Yours (is the one I am using in a clnical trial) and another one by Mountain
Home Nutritionals.
I do not recommend Tea Tree oil for the breasts because it's inappropriate
for babies to ingest this orally (although adults may use it as a mouth
wash).
Please feel free to contact me if you have further questions.
Warmly,
chris
Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
mom, wife, educator, lactation consultant, researcher, scientist, author,
organic gardener, photographer, lapidary creator, lousy cleaner.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:16:30 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Corrine Mahar-Sylvestre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thank-You re: PPD from Corrine
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I just wanted to express my sincere thanks to everyone who wrote me about my
PPD story. The warmth and appreciation everyone expressed was truly
overwhelming - I am so happy my story and post was so well recieved. It is
wonderfull to know that we have such caring and warm proffessionals out
there not only supporting mothers with breastfeeding but with the entire
spectrum of the mothering experience.
Thank You all so very much!
Corrine Mahar-Sylvestre
Quinte Doula Service
Postpartum Support Program of Quinte
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:49:14 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Diane Perrone, RNC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hypothyroidism & low milk supply
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I would like to hear from anyone who has had experience with breastfeeding
mothers who are on Synthroid and have low milk supply. How have you overcome
this? Does Reglan work for these women?
Diane Perrone, RNC
Materna Wellborn
Algonquin IL USA
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:49:47 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Alicia Dermer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: neonatal jaundice reference
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi, all: I'm just busting my buttons and have to announce the news to my
2,000+ fellow Lactnetters. Just received my copy of the new Saunders
Manual of Medical Practice with the chapter on neonatal jaundice which I
contributed. If this sounds like shameless self-promotion, my reason
for announcing this is to help you out by providing a reference in a
gosh-darned medical textbook (the Saunders Manual is a well-respected text
with short, practical chapters on diagnosis and management of common
conditions, and I believe most medical libraries carry it), which you can
give to those physicians (and other hcp's) who are still telling mothers
to stop breastfeeding due to "breastfeeding" jaundice or supplementing
jaundiced babies inappropriately.
The reference would be as follows: Dermer A. Symptom: Neonatal jaundice,
in Saunders Manual of Medical Practice, Robert E. Rakel (ed), 2nd Ed,
2000, W.B. Saunders; pp475-478.
There is also a great chapter on breastfeeding by our fellow Lactnetter,
Rebecca Williams, MD. Way to go, Becky!
Regards to all, Alicia Dermer, MD, IBCLC, in now sunny and very
spring-like New Jersey.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:06:05 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: neonatal jaundice reference
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Major kudos, Alicia! It is wonderful to make a contribution likt the one you
shared with us, and wouldn't it be a pity if none of us knew about it?
That's not shameless self-promotion, but sharing great news. I certainly
plan on sharing with everyone when I finally finish my *@#%! thesis! Who
else would care?
Keep up the great work - good references make all of our lives easier and
impact changes so positively!
Sincerely,
Gretchen Andrews, BA, IBCLC
priv prac SO. CAL,USA
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:50:10 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jennifer Williams <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: World's Oldest Man
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An article on CNN's website about the gentleman who made it into the
Guiness Book of World Records had this to say:
He was an
infant when his family came in a covered wagon and
started a farm near the
town of Seiling.
They made part of their home a school and Holcomb
started classes at age 4.
Part of his longevity may have begun then, Ford said.
She said his mother
breast-fed him until the age of 5, a practice not
uncommon in pioneering days.
"I think that might be part of it. He would come home
from school and she had a
special little rocking chair. She would sit in it and
he would stand next to her to nurse."
The article can be accessed at
http://cnn.com/2000/US/05/30/life.oldest.reut/index.html
Jennifer Williams, BSN RN
San Diego
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:33:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: newman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: engorgement
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I have been contacted by a mother who weaned her baby 5 years ago. She
still gets severe engorgement from time to time, just like in the immediate
postpartum period. Apparently everything hormonal has been normal, an MRI
shows the pituitary is normal, and nobody has any more ideas. Any ideas?
Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:38:51 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Corrine Mahar-Sylvestre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Personal vent about my doctors visit
Comments: To: Doula Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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AARRGGHH!!!!
I just got back from a first appointment with a new doctor for myself and my
son (14 months). My son hasn't gained any weight in about 3 months but has
grown 2 inches. He's 22lbs and 32" long, eats a great variety of grownup
foods and nurses about 4 times a day. Anyway, after a discussion about this
issue which for me is not a problem since I was small as a child and my
husband is very tall and has always been very thin, my doctor says to me
"well I may have to ask you to stop nursing if he doesn't gain anyweight in
the next couple of months". I told her that I am definately not stopping
nursing, that bfing is very important to my son and to myself and that we
would have to figure out another plan of action to deal with this. This is
doctor #2 who has given me flack about BFing. The first told me I was
"crazy" to still be nursing him when he was 10 months old!
I think I am going to stay put at the clinic where I have to wait 2 hours to
see a great doctor who supports breastfeeding.
Corrine Mahar-Sylvestre
Quinte Doula Service
Postpartum Support Program of Quinte
[log in to unmask]
"Perhaps we share stories in much the same spirit that explorers share maps,
hoping to speed each others journey, but knowing the journey we make will be
our own"
Gloria Steinem
on motherhood
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:58:07 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Catherine Harwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insurance company reimbursement for breast-pump
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This is my first post, although I have been enjoying Lact-Net for some time.
I'm a professor of nursing in a university nursing program and have a
perinatal specialist certification.
I personally had to exclusively pump x 6 wks for my first child. The
insurance company initially turned down my request for reimbursement of pump
rental fees, but did come through when presented with a doctor's
prescription for my infant to receive EBM.
I have had success in assisting other Moms to receive insurance coverage for
long-term pump rental. I ask the Mom to get a written prescription from the
infant's doctor that the infant was "to be fed using the infant's mother's
expressed breast milk". A note acknowledging that the duration of pumping
anticipated would require use of a hospital quality breast pump can be
added.
Hope this is useful information.
Catherine Hoe Harwood, RN, BSN, MScN
email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:24:59 "GMT"
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: differences in pumping, calendula
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Having pumped when away from home for my 17 month old the=
difference in production/fullness was quite noticeable 6ozs=
versus 2ozs in my morning pump to comfortable. I pumped until he=
was about 14 months and there was definitely an oz or mor=
difference between sides. In my experience most non-pumping=
mothers notice one side feels "overfull" sooner than the other=
if they are way from their baby. I have actually been=
considering starting to pump again as my ds is beginning to show=
some signs of excema around his mouth which I'm beginning to=
wonder is related to allergy overload - he normally has one=
bottle of cow's milk at childcare (he reacts very badly to soy).=
So I can see a valid rationale for pumping at this age. I have=
had a couple of mothers who appear to be sensitive to calendula=
i.e when they stopped using it the soreness went away altho it=
may not have been the calendula but the baby 'slipping' on the=
nipple. Sonja
__________________________________________________________
Message sent by MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au/
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:54:54 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Austin Lactation Associates
Subject: nipple shields and mom with forceful letdown
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I heard back from the mother I posted about the other day. She had a 3 mo
old baby dx with Failure to Thrive, and part of my observation included
identification of over-active letdown which we blocked mechanically with a
silicone nipple shield. Within 24 hrs the baby demonstrated better
acceptance of the breast and longer nursing sessions, however, it appeared
she still was not getting sufficient intake. I advised the pediatrician
that I thought the baby had a physical problem. She ordered a swallowing
study and a visit with a pedi gastroenterologist. No bowel blockage was
identified, but reflux was dx. Baby started on meds and gained 5 oz
overnight and seems so much happier. Mother still finds that using the
nipple shield for the first two AM feeds helps baby manage the over-active
letdown during the time of the day when she is most full, but she is nursing
without it the rest of the day. The baby never had any spitting up, which
was one reason reflux wasn't considered earlier. Thought the list would
enjoy hearing the happy ending.
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:26:05 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Brey House <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Red book updates
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Hi Everyone,
Just a quicky...has anyone received the Red Book updates lately? I was =
on the mailing list but haven't received any since the Blessed Thistle =
one..anyone have the WWW site?
Thanks,
Lucy, WI
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<DIV>Hi Everyone,</DIV>
<DIV>Just a quicky...has anyone received the Red Book updates =
lately? I=20
was on the mailing list but haven't received any since the Blessed =
Thistle=20
one..anyone have the WWW site?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Lucy, WI</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:32:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: neonatal jaundice reference
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Alicia writes:
<< Just received my copy of the new Saunders
Manual of Medical Practice with the chapter on neonatal jaundice which I
contributed. >>
Congratulations! Can I clarify and ask if this is the Saunders Manual of
Medical one, or the Pediatric one?
Judy LeVan Fram, Brooklyn, NY
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:34:59 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Ann Calandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Milk Gone?
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Got a call just before I left work today from a very upset young mom. =
She delivered a 34 week baby a month ago. Baby has been in special =
care, came home from the hospital over the weekend. She has been pumping =
and for the past two weeks in the hospital, exclusively nursing. Baby =
latching and gaining well, lots of output. Mom had lots of milk, twice =
a day still needed to pump because of fullness. Says she is from a long =
line of breastfeeders, nobody in her family has ever had formula.
Yesterday at 6 AM, she nursed and he guzzled down the milk. At 9, when =
she went to nurse, her breasts felt looser, and baby was not content =
after nursing. She nursed him all day yesterday but he was not =
swallowing. No wet diapers or bowel movements. Last night she gave him =
some formula, and has been giving him formula today, plus nursing. She =
hears no swallowing when he nurses, and when she pumps with her double =
pump, she gets nary a drop. She denies any changes in her diet, no =
hormonal birth control, has not been ill,eats and drinks well, no =
lifestyle changes. She is devastated. I encouraged her to keep nursing, =
try some herbs such as fenugreek and blessed thistle,and supplement as =
needed to keep the baby hydrated. Suggested relaxation techniques, skin =
to skin, frequent nursings. What do you think is going on? I told her =
to call me tomorrow morning early and would like to have suggestions for =
her if she is still not getting any milk. Says her breasts are not =
full, no leaking, nothing. She cannot hand express a drop either.
Help?
Ann Calandro, RNC, IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:37:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: neonatal jaundice reference
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Dear Alicia, Congrats. You have every right to be proud! What a neat
contribution to peds! So neat that people like you and Becky and Nancy
Wight are infiltrating "regular" medicine. It's that woman's touch :-)
Have you made any decisions re: copies of BF ref for LaCTo to sell at
convention? Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:38:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Oops
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Oops, sorry didn't mean to send that one to you all :-( Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:55:27 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jim & Winnie Mading <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 15 min presentation
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And I thought it was a challenge to get everything in that I wanted
to say in a 2 hour presentation!
My thought would be to grab them with something catchy and leave
them begging for more info. I seem to recall a great attention
getter that started out "What if there was a wonderful new product
that would...?" and went on to give some of the more remarkable
qualities of human milk. Handouts would be a must and would include
a few basic references on why breastfeed, where to get assisteance,
and how the community can support breastfeeding.
Good luck. Let us know what you do decide to cover and the
response.
Winnie
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:02:47 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Johanna Berger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: depression
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First, a big thank you to everyone for sharing their personal experiences
with depression. Such moving accounts help all of us help others.
Second, as a social worker (primarily geriatric), I've seen a lot of
depression. Yes, most of it is for a good reason (e.g., failing health,
isolation, loss, etc.). However, by the time I get to see it, it's
pretty bad and I have needed to work with the client, HCP, et al. to get
the client over the hump. I think SSRIs can be great, as long as they
are prescribed by an experienced/knowledgeable/appropriate HCP (i.e.,
psychiatrist) and come along with therapy to TALK about what's going on
and to attempt to resolve or reconcile the person's life. SSRIs given by
the OB, oncologist, internist, etc. are not appropriate (IMNSHO). I've
seen way to many people given an anti-depressant like it was candy and
expected to *make a full recovery.*
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions.
Johanna Berger, LSW
Breastfeeding Counselor
Bala Cynwyd, PA
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:18:16 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: slow-grow toddler
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Corrine, you wrote that part of the reason this isn't an issue for you is
that "I was small as a child and my husband is very tall and has always been
very thin."
Do either your mother or your husband's mothers have your old doctor visit
records from childhood?
My daughters were both down in the 0 percentile, but because I was able to
show the ped documentation that they were bigger than I had been at the same
age, she was satisfied that they were thriving.
I've recommended this trick to other mothers who were similarly confident
that their kids were within family norms, and it has been calming to their
pediatricians as well.
It's part of the reason that even though I basically don't care much what my
kids weigh I keep a good record for each -- they may want to use it this way
in 25 years!
Elisheva
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:37:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Becky <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & low milk supply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Have the mom's thyroid studies been checked lately? Hypothyroidism
inhibits milk supply, but hyperthyroidism inhibits MER, which can look like
low milk supply. Has she gotten a generic brand of Synthroid
lately? (Generics can be 75-125% of actual potency stated, which can make
a difference in this circumstance.) Could she be anemic? Started hormonal
birth control lately? A smoker? Any other endocrine abnormalities? Any
other meds?
Reglan is worth a try, if no other cause can be found.
Becky Saenz, MD, IBCLC
At 03:49 PM 05/31/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>I would like to hear from anyone who has had experience with breastfeeding
>mothers who are on Synthroid and have low milk supply. How have you overcome
>this? Does Reglan work for these women?
>
>Diane Perrone, RNC
>Materna Wellborn
>Algonquin IL USA
>
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:50:47 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: nipple shields and mom with forceful letdown
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In a message dated 5/31/0 7:29:38 PM, Barbara Wilson-Clay writes:
<< .... over-active letdown which we blocked mechanically with a
silicone nipple shield. ...Thought the list would enjoy hearing the happy
ending. >>
yes, I do appreciate hearing about the progress and also the innovative use
of a bf tool that is too-oft maligned due to inexperience and/or
inapprorpiate uses.
Debbie Tobin
RN BSN IBCLC LCCE
Springfield, Virginia USA
In the suburbs outside the Washington DC beltway
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:51:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: 15 min bf presentation
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In a message dated 5/31/0 3:19:26 PM, Chris Hafner-Eaton ask:
<<what 3 things all of you would consider to be the most important things to
mention....... (to our local county health board) on breastfeeding? >>
off the top of my tired brain, but, with the target group in mind, I'd say
along the lines of: benefits of bf as relates to infection
prevention/moderation/control, Cost (to the community) of not BF, & who the
local bf experts are and how to best utilize them.
Debbie Tobin
RN BSN IBCLC LCCE
Springfield, Virginia USA
In the suburbs outside the Washington DC beltway
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:45:33 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Synthroid
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Diane, you wrote:
<I would like to hear from anyone who has had experience with
breastfeeding
mothers who are on Synthroid and have low milk supply. How have you
overcome
this?>
If they are on the correct dose of synthroid, this is supposed to make
their thyroid hormonal status euthyroid (in the normal range), not still
hypothyroid. This is the basis of using the TSH (thyroid stimulating
hormone) as a test.
If the synthroid is satisfying the pituitary that the thyroid is
functioning in an adequate manner, I don't see why it would not also give
the same feedback message to the breasts.
< Does Reglan work for these women?>
I suspect that it would show the same variability in these women as in
others. As I understand it, it works for some, and not for others,
depending on the stage of lactation, etc. etc.
The same principle of more thorough milk removal and more frequent milk
removal that often work for other mothers is probably what I would try,
if I knew for sure that the mother had had a normal TSH drawn since
delivery.
Jean (no endocrinologist, but my hypothyroidism corrected with synthroid
and fooling my pituitary quite adequately, though LONG time, no lactate!)
**************************************
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio USA
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