Hello to everyone, I am a LLLL living in Germany and have been lurking here
for a few weeks without the time introduce myself, but Kathy D's letter(
&Norma) had me laughing and cheering and I couldn't let it go by. I have 2
daughters and a "corporate businessman" as a husband. We have introduced alot
of family activity into his department, but it is an up hill struggle.
Anyway, I am hoping LACTNET will help fill in the gaps in our APL Dept.which
consists of one overworked mom. So far LACTNET has been very informative and
entertaining,and I appreciate all the time and effort you all put in (you too
Jonothan, just wish there were more men putting in the time).
Meredith Adami, ACL LLL Germany
----------
From: Lactation Information and Discussion on behalf of Automatic digest
processor
Sent: Mittwoch, 7. Februar 1996 15:09
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 6 Feb 1996 to 7 Feb 1996 - Special issue
There are 14 messages totalling 300 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Cabbage
2. sorry -repetition
3. Mom with Cystic fibrosis
4. clicking while feeding
5. organic solvents - thanks!
6. Ostheosporosis and breastfeeding
7. research references
8. good hospital births
9. Cabbage leaves
10. Menopause
11. Non-nutritive suck/male-dominated corporate culture
12. the male model
13. "non-nutritive" suck
14. Baby with clicking noise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 06:45:44 PST
From: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cabbage
Dear Marie.... Here is a quote from the letter I sent to the J.P. "Although
the exact mechanism
does not yet seem to be known, one possible explantion comes from
Breastfeeding Review(1988).
"Cabbage belongs to the "Brassicacea family' and contains mustard oil,
magnesium, oxylate and
sulpur heterosides. Sulpha in the amino-acid methionine acts as an antibiotic
and anti-irritant,
which in turn draws an extra flow of blood to the area. This dilates the
capillaries and acts as
a counter-irritan, thus relieving the engorgement and allowing the milk to
flow." I have no
other sources of how cabbage works. I do not know if red cabbage works or not
but I would
imagine it would cause staining of the woman's chlothes. Sincerely Toby
-------------------------------------
Name: Toby Gish R.N.LLLL.IBCLC
E-mail: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 07/02/96
Time: 06:45:44 AM
This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:06:40 PST
From: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sorry -repetition
Lactnetters- I am sorry I reprinted that letter. I have only had one cup
of coffee. PLease disregard Judy seigal's statement quoting Shemer. It was
inaccurate. We are spending the morning translating the Nestl'
Boycott page...My zealot son is enraged at the penetration of Nestl' into
the the Israeli market. Toby
-------------------------------------
Name: Toby Gish R.N.LLLL.IBCLC
E-mail: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 07/02/96
Time: 07:01:33 AM
This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:07:47 +0800
From: Sherwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mom with Cystic fibrosis
Haven't any of you ever worked with a mom with CF? I posted some questions
yesterday and got one ref to an article written in 1994. Any one else out
here with any experience/insights? Thanks in advance. nancy Sherwood
IBCLC- Perth, Australia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 03:56:53 EST
From: Duncan Broadfoot <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: clicking while feeding
Could this be caused in some way by the baby trying to control a very fast
milk
flow?
Mary Broadfoot, Paisley, Scotland
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 03:56:58 EST
From: Duncan Broadfoot <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: organic solvents - thanks!
Thanks to all who posted info re above. Mother is v grateful, and is off to
look up the references, which were new to her. She says that they are meant
to
wear masks and gloves, but in practice when they are working on somehting
particularly delicate...
Mary Broadfoot, Paisley, Scotland - 6 inches of snow and the schools are
closed!
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 06:22:15 -0300
From: Grupo Origem <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ostheosporosis and breastfeeding
Hi, all
Last year, when we're organizing the World Breastfeeding Week, in Brazil,
we looked for info on the relation between ostheosporosis and
breastfeeding, but we could'nt find anything.
Please, someone could help us? If you could send me materials about this
issue, our address is:
Grupo Origem
Av. Beira Mar, 3661 Lj. 18
Casa Caiada - Olinda - PE
CEP 53130-540
Brasil
Tel/Fax: 55.81.4321913.
Thank you very much.
Kisses and hugs from my tropical and hot country,
Denise Arcoverde.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:02:50 +1000
From: Lesley McBurney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: research references
I have not had any response to my request for research data that shows the
value of top-up feeds in increasing supply, and the safety of breastfeeding
when the mother is having a normal pregnacy with no prior history of
miscarriage or premature birth.
Is there anybody out there?
Lesley McBurney, Brisbane, Australia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:46:03 +1000
From: Lesley McBurney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: good hospital births
Hospitals aren't always the enemy. During my first birth in 1982, a 24 hour
labour, unlimited walking, showers, chose my own positions at all times, no
monitors. I had pethedine because I asked for it, and gas & air, because I
asked for it. My second stage was looooong :-( and resulted in a forceps
delivery and large episiotomy. However, my baby was delivered onto my
stomach, Dad cut the cord, baby went to the breast as soon as she wanted,
stayed with me, fed in my bed in the hospital, and the breastfeeding
experience was a delight from start to finish (weaned herself at 3yrs and 3
months, not counting the few weeks she went back to the breast after her
brother was born). The issue here is a well-informed mother and consent. I
never felt cheated or a failure. I was on a high from the moment of delivery.
Baby no 2: identical labour, pethedine, gas BUT lightning second stage. No
intervention (doctor very laid back - watched TV till the last minute) and a
slight perineal tear. Baby used to slide off the breast and took several
attempts to latch at each feed, I believe because the pethedine hadn't had
time to wear off before delivery. BUT, I was not a first-time mother,
relaxed, pumped full of prolactin, and post-natally euphoric again. This
one weaned himself at 3 yrs and 9 months.
I have never felt my hospital birth experiences were anything but positive.
Lesley McBurney, Brisbane, Australia - HOT!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:02:54 +1100
From: Philippa Thomson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cabbage leaves
Marie Davis asks about the mechanism that makes cabbage leaves reduce
engorgement.
I wish we knew. You quote Wendy Rosier's paper in a 1988 Breastfeeding
Review. This was the very first paper published describing the use of
cabbage leaves. The editor at the time hunted high and low for reasons that
could explain the phenomenon and got her explanation from a book on
naturopathic medicine. It was a new thing in Victoria, although I heard it
was widely used in Western Australia. The reasons suggested for why it
works are pure speculation, as much today as 7 years ago.
There is lots of clinical evidence that it works (on visiting my neighbour
who hails from Sri Lanka, I found she had made a shoe of cabbage leaves to
reduce the swelling in her ankle. She told me it was an old Sri Lankan
remedy. I astounded her by knowing about the use of cabbage leaves).
There are now proper studies that have tested the use of cabbage leaves, but
they still do not explain the how. If you must have this for your document,
then you will have to leave the cabbage leaves out.
I feel very frustrated when people insist that they MUST have certain
information. Sometimes it is not around simply because the research has not
been done as it is unethical or too hard or no one is interested in funding
it. (This is not a dig at you, Marie, but my venting at the attitudes of
some people who contact me at the Lactation Resource Centre and insist on
answers to questions that to the best of my knowledge there are no answers
to yet. My standard answer is 'please do the research and I will give your
answer to the next person who asks').
If someone else does come up with a definitive answer, I will be most
appreciative and will even eat humble pie for not knowing about it!
Philippa Thomson
Melbourne, Australia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:02:54 PST
From: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Menopause
Hi Pearl.. I was talking about breastfeeding mothers who are in their
middle forties and may be perimenopausel....not to say what happens to our
eyes after 40....From one of those middle-aged IBLC's
-------------------------------------
Name: Toby Gish R.N.LLLL.IBCLC
E-mail: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 07/02/96
Time: 02:02:54 PM
This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 06:50:34 -0600
From: "katherine a. dettwyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Non-nutritive suck/male-dominated corporate culture
Yes Pearl, here's someone else who HATES that term -- as though
breastfeeding were only a transfer of nutrients from mother to baby, and all
other sucking was unimportant, had no significance, etc. Sort of like
non-procreative sex, except that everyone would agree the latter was
important!
Jonathan Kramer -- get a clue, Jonathan. The public world of work in the
United States was and still is in many many ways dominated by men and the
male culture of "professionalism" which treats people as automotons who have
no lives or family. Why do you think it took so long to get a "Family Leave
Act" through Congress? Why do you think women have had so many problems
getting ahead in the corporate world -- because men view having and raising
children as unrelated to the workplace -- the idea that your private life
should be totally separate from your work life. You must be at work on
time, never take a day off for a sick kid, be willing to travel on a
moment's notice, work overtime on a moment's notice, and certainly not let a
pregnancy or childbirth interfere with WORK. I was at an anthropology
conference at a hotel that was also having some sort of business conference.
The anthropologists were dressed in all sorts of casual and ethnic clothing
(hardly a one in a suit) and many had babies in slings or backpacks (yes,
even the male anthropologists) and there were quite a few children around,
though not so many as at an LLL conference of course! The business people
were all "dressed for success" in their dark suits and ties, the women in
fancy business suits too, with those little blouses with the ties at the
throat, everyone had a briefcase, and there were NO children in evidence.
Several times business people were overheard commenting on the
"unprofessionalism" of the anthropologists at the same hotel -- especially
the presence of the children. Don't get me started -- it is definitely a
MALE view of the world that separates private from public domains, and for
many years in the US (and still among some groups, such as Eagle Forum) a
woman's place was ONLY in the home with her children, and a man's place was
out in public, and women and especially children were not allowed/tolerated
in the workplace. My mentor at A&M, an English professor in her late 50s,
tells of how she was told in no uncertain terms to remove the PICTURES of
her children on her desk at her first university position, because anything
that drew attention to the fact that she was a woman, and had a family, was
considered detrimental. She was supposed to act as though work was the only
thing that counted -- as men are still expected to act in much of the
corporate world.
Kathy D., who has many pet peeves, she realizes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:30:41 EST
From: Norma Ritter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: the male model
Jonathan: I am not sure if this belongs on Lactnet, but since you brought up
the subject . . .
When I wrote about *the male model which decrees that family and business
affairs cannot mix,* I was talking about the traditional way in which business
has been conducted in our culture and it was not meant to be taken personally.
Until comparatively recently, women were all but excluded from most of the
business world, although it was OK for them to make the coffee and clean up
the mess. I think that its great that you include your son in your work life -
I'm sure that you both enjoy the experience. I cannot help but wonder,
however, how your colleagues would react if a female co-worker decided to
bring and nurse her baby at a work-related activity. For some reason, a father
bringing his son to work is considered to be enlightened and progressive, but
a mother who does the same thing is considered to be unprofessional. At the
beginning of this century unions were fighting for the right for working
mothers to have nursing breaks and on-site child care, but such benefits are!
still few and far between. I thin
k that this would be an appropriate issue for ILCA to support, starting with
the right of mothers to nurse their babies at breastfeeding conferences.
Sorry, once I get started on this theme . . .
Norma Ritter, IBCLC, LLLL "If not now, when? If not us,
who?"
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:08:41 EST
From: Norma Ritter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "non-nutritive" suck
I agree with Pearl about the confusion arising over the term "non-nutritive
suck." I remember my pedi warning me about "letting the baby use me as a
pacifier", saying that there was no reason for the baby to continue suckling
after he'd taken the milk. Well, that was 21 years ago and maybe he just
didn't know any better. What bothers me is that I am still hearing doctors
tell mothers that there is no value in letting a baby nurse ad lib. We still
have a long way to go (sigh).
Norma Ritter, IBCLC, LLL "If not now, when? If not us,
who?"
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:04:56 -0500
From: Dany Gauthier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby with clicking noise
I would agree with the "If it is not broken, then don't fix it" approach
with this baby, as he is growing well and mother is comfortable! I have had
some clients with this problem, and as I recall it was the fathers that had
the most trouble with the noise...They could not sleep at night when baby
fed in bed with mom...
Dany Gauthier IBCLC
[log in to unmask]
Montreal, Canada
Tel: 514-923-3792
Fax:514-923-3802
------------------------------
End of LACTNET Digest - 6 Feb 1996 to 7 Feb 1996 - Special issue
****************************************************************
|
